Guild Wars 2

btw with all those insane aoe around

have fun to keep our dumb AI alive

Zarathustra.1458:

I will be honest, I do kinda like the sword ambush skill, but it feels like it should have been part of the base sword kit from the beginning… The other thing that gets me, it feels like we are not getting enough endurance. We ultimately seem to now have a second resource to manage for our damage, and like our clones it is again tied to our defenses. This is kinda insane… Would probably feel much better with a third dodge…

. We ultimately seem to now have a second resource to manage for our damage

thats what i feel

after testing all elite spec , i can fairly say mirage is trash tier in all game mode , have fun guys

1.ambush skills only get 1.5s window to cast . which is stupid
2. mirror is not that useful and walking to them to gain that little is dumb
3. dmg on axe and whole mirage is low comparing to other elite
4.elite tele range is too short
5. no dodge movement costs a lot and mirage defensive traits + skills are not enough for that yet especially we trade one elite trait line for that
6. new elite spec has insane amount of cc , mirage trait : dodge to stunbreak actuallt is not that op as we thought

7. mirage is so so so so sos much op anyway , can anyone tell wooden potato we are finally op dps dealer now so we can watch he streams mirage doing pity dps annd get kicked from raid .

Curunen.8729:

It’s a bit sad if not because given some of the kitten poor cast effects (eg iWarlock) what is the point of using certain phantasm skills aside from extra shatter fodder, especially if using DE and having no trouble generating enough clones?

in pve , iduelist will still be our main source of dps unless anet buffs some number on axe and ambush attack in pve . i really dont see how our playstyle will change in pve .

in pvp , you can summon like iwarlock while dodging with mirage , extra dmg is still good anyway .

the reason behind those cast effect i think is anet actually tried to make power based elite which will interact with those cast effect ,but they could not make it work , so they changed mirage to condi based . Its likely they tried to build scrapper with some fuel mechanic or ele with sword before hot but they changed it .then for holosmith and weave they finally made this work .they will either remove those cast effect or buff them directly or give us a new elite in next expac.

Curunen.8729:

glenndevis.8327:

Kadj.6725:

glenndevis.8327:

I just don’t like that with Infinite Horizon you don’t get much more since daze doesn’t stack.

Would have been nice to have a good power build with Mirage but looks like that’s not what Anet wants.

If you run Domination, 5 stacks of vulnerability (innate) for the Daze, and traited, daze is 1s Stun every 5s(7.5 with 0 endurance under vigor though, which you’ll probably always have).
You can go full interrupt within the same traitline:
-3 more vulnerability stacks on interrupt (innate)
-3 seconds of quickness
-Power Block for 1k damage+Weakness(+15s cooldown)

If you get all 8 stacks of vulnerability(even more if clones can also daze, should you take that trait) you’ll get 4% extra damage(total of 12%) thanks to the third minor trait that provides bonus damage for vulnerability.

Basically, this may be one of the best-synergizing skills I’ve ever seen but no surely there’s no hope for power mesmer, power mesmer is dead, rip.

Sorry I didn’t clarify myself properly. Without Infinite Horizon yeah, the daze is very useful. A clone generating, dazing gapcloser sounds fairly good & Domi line has great synergy with it.

The point I was trying to make is how the Infinite Horizon trait barely does anything for this ambush.

What’s the point of having sword clones do the same thing you do at the same time. Daze doesn’t stack and since Infinite Horizon makes your clones ambush at the same time it won’t trigger the traits multiple times. And I doubt it will be easy to set your clones up at a large distance from eachother to make them not hit the target at the same time.

Would be cool if the sword ambush did more damage, but the daze effect is only applied to you, or something like that.

One thing I can think of is maybe you can spawn 3 other clones (staff, scepter, axe or maybe even gs) and then swap to sword and dodge into ambush.
Since the sword ambush has the shortest cast time you can daze (or stun when traited) with sword ambush to combo your other clones ambush attacks. (for less damage since you won’t do any strong ambush yourself.)

You could sword ambush directly into F1, especially as illusions won’t have superspeed on shatter so this will help bring them directly on the target – kind of like an alternative version of axe 3 just without the teleport.

the clone sword ambush summons will be at your original location ,unless you meant anyhing else?

Curunen.8729:

Axe does have cleave whereas Scepter is single target apart from Confusing Images.

Also with scepter bolts all being projectiles, I’m wondering if Evasive Mirror and a simple dodge will counter scepter ambush really hard.

forgot to say im meant that in pve .

in pvp axe 2 and axe 3 are more useful .

that said , anet could make False Oasis with a water field so we can use those leaps .chaos armor doesnt seem to be that great on mirage. we have better ways to apply weakness and regen with mirage traits .

Curunen.8729:

musu.9205:

Curunen.8729:

Yeah, Sceptre is the only one that stands out as being a serious and strong attack and not negligible fluff.

GS is just plain kitten.
Spear looks meh considering we already have feigned surge on a low cooldown for movement underwater.
Staff looks cool (sexy animation) but I’m not sure how strong the attack will be in practice.
Axe is… underwhelming, especially for the new weapon. Would be nice to see a unique melee animation or a bit more mobility.

Sword is… well it depends if the leap requires a target. If it doesn’t require a target meaning we can dodge leap freely anytime then it’s going to be an insane mobility skill and might make reverse phase retreat redundant. If it requires a target then it is weak. I like that it spawns a clone, I like the synergy with interrupt builds, but where is the damage?

I think they’re reluctant to give us any solid damage on weapons as long as we retain the ability to deal absurd amounts of instant damage with mind wrack. I really wish shatter skills had been replaced…

in other word : we need new shatter skills or entirely new f skills like necro elite next time for sustain power dmg

Yeah definitely.

I can only think they must be struggling with a way to make all our shatter traits work if changing our F1-F4 skills.

but after 2 expac mes got least new abilities among all classes , that does make me worried and sad. DD actually got 3 dodge to pick up, mirage is just one type lol given how awful gs ambush is , and sword ambush is not useful in pve .

new shatter could be something like souldbeast+ kit
instead of direct shatter , now all f skills must be active before summoning illusion ,once you active certain f skill , the illusion summoned will link to you , you use that f skill again, you consume those illusion to gain access to new weapon skills temporarily. the period is fixed but the power of those new weapon skills will be depending on how many illusion you consume .
f1 = power dps skills f2 condi f 3 cc + movement f4 defensive skills +self portal

Zenith.7301:

Won’t be the first time Robert Gee designs mesmer with only pvp in mind.

We had to throw a tantrum in the forums about DejaVu and shield phantasms in order for him to make changes, on top of the interrupt traits he littered the class with.

He’s a PvP dev despite calling himself class balance dev. PvP will always come first for him.

It’s the reason he didn’t buff necromance axe auto despite it being pathetic or mesmer greatsword/sword autos, because muh PvP.

well tbh in 5 years , most of time , mes wasn’t that great in pvp despite being called op .same goes for necro axe .and even mes was in meta , most of time its due to our portal .if his aim is pvp he simply failed doing so .

anet balance team just likes to throw random number until it works. they did this with tempest overload , and look at weave traits and skills , they are pretty much doing that same thing again , power creep numbers until pve ele happy .

btw mirage axe in most case is worse than scepter(worse dmg , worse ambush cast time , worse ambush skill no defensive skills) , only skill 3 make it worth something .

AsheR.1687:

I think people are forgetting the ambush skills can be traited to activate on illusions, so gs is 470×3×4 with all active illusions +power and crit modifiers.

i doubt clone will do ambush with our power , and phant seems no ambush attack

Curunen.8729:

Yeah, Sceptre is the only one that stands out as being a serious and strong attack and not negligible fluff.

GS is just plain kitten.
Spear looks meh considering we already have feigned surge on a low cooldown for movement underwater.
Staff looks cool (sexy animation) but I’m not sure how strong the attack will be in practice.
Axe is… underwhelming, especially for the new weapon. Would be nice to see a unique melee animation or a bit more mobility.

Sword is… well it depends if the leap requires a target. If it doesn’t require a target meaning we can dodge leap freely anytime then it’s going to be an insane mobility skill and might make reverse phase retreat redundant. If it requires a target then it is weak. I like that it spawns a clone, I like the synergy with interrupt builds, but where is the damage?

I think they’re reluctant to give us any solid damage on weapons as long as we retain the ability to deal absurd amounts of instant damage with mind wrack. I really wish shatter skills had been replaced…

in other word : we need new shatter skills or entirely new f skills like necro elite next time for sustain power dmg

RabbitUp.8294:

musu.9205:

actually base guard signet sharing will grant 220 power +220 condi dmg , and a GM trait from firebrand works basically like sun spirit.

216 power/condi, and it’s not permanent.
So, more like 90 power or 120 with alacrity.
Or 108 condi, 143 with alacrity.
Both come at the cost of personal dps.

The firebrand GM is not comparable to Sun Spirit. It’s a fixed amount of burning stacks (10 stacks) with a 10s cooldown, that translates to 1 stack of burn (3s) every second.* It’s not a party buff, like how thief venoms are not buffs. It’s just part of FB’s dps that scales with the party size.

*It’s actually lower, because firebrand gives quickness every 12 seconds, not 10.

alacrity is overrated , if firebrand could provide those with decent dps , people would drop chrono for firebrand , it all comes down to raw dps gain from personal dps and buff . and btw firebrand quickness is much much easier to maintain than our silly well.

Alacrity offers more than damage. It affects rotations, some of which are not possible without alacrity and it affects support/boon uptime. Not to mention, after 2 years, raiders have grown used to having alacrity. Unless firebrand offers significant damage (we are talking about 30k) along with perma quickness, chrono is going nowhere. Not to mention that chrono can just forget about quickness and only provide alacrity, which increases its personal dps. It would compete with renegade then, which will probably come down to utility vs dps, but the kind of utility mesmer provides is irrepleceable.

As for firebrand being easier, have you seen the mantras? They are 300-range narrow cones in front of you, so you have to stand behind your team, when axe is a melee weapon. Well of Action is leagues easier to use.

A hint : DH does not offer much dmg mod for guard.

It offers more than 20% as pure modifiers, then there’s the dps increase of Procession of Blades. I say that’s pretty significant.

for easier i meant , instantly cast , also from their heal .
im aware of alacrity helps a lot for rotation but if firebrand could get some serious dps like condi ps , alacrity will have to compete with that .
about that GM traits , i think its actually 2 stacks of burn , not the burn itself but the buff icon has number 2 . personal dps or not its still good dps gain .
its possible firebrand replace off tank chrono , while tank chrono still be best .

get holosmith sword , its a lightsaber . also fits mes

RabbitUp.8294:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Cyninja.2954:

Revenants already had access to permanent alacrity before the last balance change.

The problem was the build they had to run was useless besides the alacrity. Chrono provides a lot more than just alacrity and as long as revenant doesn’t provide the same amount of utility (or high dps so another class can provide the utility) they are not a mesmer replacement.

No they didn’t. Natural harmony has an energy cost. Without the new elite spec you can at best sustain alacrity for 75% of the time.

I don’t see how this rotation is any better.

Starting with Ventari, you use Natural Harmony and switch to Kalla, NH hits after 1s delay for 3s and OFA is 7s. That’s 10s, enough to last you until the next switch. So far so good.

But you get back to Ventari with 1s of alacrity. Now you have to start spamming NH. Using it 3 times is easy enough, but that’s 9s, only enough to last you until the next swap, so you have to use it a 4th time right before switching to replicate the rotation you began with, so you are back to having the same energy hungry rotation revenant has already and struggles with.

I also know (if my math is right) that Firebrand can grant allies perma quickness.

Distortion share is unique to Mesmer. But now there is nothing unique about Chronomancer.

There’s nothing unique about Firebrand either, just a watered-down chrono, and base guardian has nothing truly unique to begin with.

At least mesmer has distortion, portal and boon share as unique aspects, and also boon removal and stealth, that are not unique, but are rarer and situationally useful. Plus, chrono is a very good tank.

actually base guard signet sharing will grant 220 power +220 condi dmg , and a GM trait from firebrand works basically like sun spirit . alacrity is overrated , if firebrand could provide those with decent dps , people would drop chrono for firebrand , it all comes down to raw dps gain from personal dps and buff . and btw firebrand quickness is much much easier to maintain than our silly well.
A hint : DH does not offer much dmg mod for guard .

mes and ele will be the class without any unique offensive buff after PoF along with necro has less useful buff .

@Kadj.6725 btw given how thief stealth attack requires a target to work , i think ambush will be same . it is reasonable .

Kadj.6725:

“Lunge at your foe and strike them with your sword, briefly dazing them. Leave behind a clone at your original location. "

I mean, as things go? That’s a pretty nice addition.

And if we can use it without a target, we get more mobility. Notably – I don’t know how other leaps work, but if it’s affected by movement speed, we’ll also have super speed as an option during the skill’s activation.

So let’s say we go Dom/Duel. CS, DE, Self-Deception, Shards of Glass, Elusive Mind.
We dodge and the following things can happen:
1- Stun Break
2- Clone generation from DE.
3- Leap
4- Clone generation from Mirage Thrust
5- iLeap OR use a Deception with trait to get a third clone (Jaunt to add 400 range to leap?)
6- Shatter, illusions have a chance of becoming Mirage Mirrors
7- Touch Mirage Mirror, repeat starting from 2.

The question I have for the preview is whether the super speed trait applies to illusions. There might be an argument to be made for swapping Elusive Mind for Infinite Horizon if so.

I dunno dudes, between that and taking Jaunt’s ammo into account, we can do a lot of illusion generation and shattering on Power, and our basic generation rotation is also a potentially 1000-range gap closer(1800 with Blink, 2200 with Jaunt+Blink if possible – and even more if super speed affects leap) capable of stun. We can both bait out and interrupt a heal basically whenever we want from an extremely long range, and with good target selection, can bounce back before anyone even realizes what happened. (Guys. Power Block. Seriously!)

So… Not power viable, amirite?

Let’s test it first.

(If yall are mainly looking at PvE, most of that still applies as a pre-phantasm burst, or a last-target burst if axe 3 is on cooldown. Off-weapon will be axe for target management. Axe is still good to consider for pvp for that sweet 600 range shadowstep, but it’s hard to imagine it competing with staff if going sword main. Sword+Axe would have to be an extremely aggressive playstyle.)

the flaw of those power based build with mirage is quite simple and old one :
we will still have no sustain damage . and if you look at other new elites , you will find more and more classes get anti-burst trait/skill .we will get better defensive tools with mirage . but we could not kill anyone in actual high level pvp . this was power shatter mes problem .but the defensive seems not enough (we will have to see for this )for a bunker build (no healing ), right now power mirage seems like a bruiser build without sustain dmg , in the end , condi build will be far better with better sustain dmg + better burst dmg which is what mirage is supposed to do anyway .

oh firebrand mantra is indeed 25s cd i was mistaken .

Zarathustra.1458:

musu.9205:

Takashiro.8701:

Sword ambush + confounding suggestions could be pretty evil though.

its like trading off your huge defensive tool to a bit more bonus stuff ,this is at max a DE trait , this is nowhere close to DD dodge lol not on bar with defensive effect not on bar with offensive effect

But it does fit with what is in effect the mentality of an interrupt mesmer, that to stop the enemies attack with an interrupt is your defense…

i agree , if only spellbreaker is mes elite spec .but well
i think the usefulness of sword ambush is depending how many mirage cloak we could get without dodge on a pvp build ,and how easy we could trigger mirage mirror (no footage shows how far away the mirror from skill use will be ,some skill will leave mirror on target location which is not that good already )
i will be honest , those skills can be super awesome if anet could get things above done right . but after many balance patches , i simply dont have that much faith .

apharma.3741:

musu.9205:

Ghotistyx.6942:

You have to intentionally build for quickness uptime though. Mesmer can otherwise accidentally have high or perma Vigor uptime. However easy it is for Firebrand to maintain quickness, its easier for a Mirage to maintain Vigor.

In pvp and wvw it might be .

In pve , nope . perma quickness is granted by boon bot while vigor is not .

and in wvw and pvp , this firebrand trait combined with their tome skills and how easily firebrand apply quickness . those stats are still too much . its 750 stats . pure ridiculous if you look at other class self buff , 150 is not that good in the age of 220 stats or 20% duration or 20% dmg buff .

also by your logic :something that is harder to achieve should have better effect in this case chrono should have better quickness uptime and more to add on that comparing with firebrand far easier quickness rotation .

its same for firebrand mantra ,3 charges with better effect for each charge usage .
and somehow anet didnt apply that BS (more charge =player burn through charge to gain final greater effect )to firebrand mantra .

anet just fixed our staff and torch cdr traits after almost 2 years. i just wish for cd and stuff like mantra or stats buff , they could give us same standard treatment as other classes.

In PvE it’s super easy to get and keep up permenant vigor, even more so now most condition builds are the top damage dealers as druids will be bringing sun spirit which traited grants vigor. This is then shared via the chronos, even without sun spirit druids would be granting vigor on pet swap that gets shared = permenant.

Those mantras from what we’ve seen have 25s cool downs so you need to stagger your quickness application with the mantra cool down trait competing with the trait giving quickness on aegis/stab so you can’t pick both at the same time.

The fire brand will have to trait and invest in boon duration to keep up high levels of quickness, remember it’s 2s base quickness for most of the traits, that isn’t much without boon duration which just got harder to keep up since the last patch.

Firebrand would need 100% boon duration as well as Loremaster, another mantra and most likely stalwart speed to get good duration on quickness. That’s at least 2 major traits (probably 3 as they’d need honourable staff) and a significant investment in concentration. No matter which way you cut it, it’s trivial for mesmers to maintain over 50% vigor uptime regardless of game mode.

I agree with an earlier post, pulsing might while you have vigor would be better for power and condition builds, assuming ANet wants this to be played with power stats.

firebrand mantra cd we only know is count recharge cd not the actual cd .they do have to invest to apply quickness but lets be honest here , its no where near how much chrono build invests/

and firebrand gains 750 total stats no matter how you compare those two traits , one must be off .even those traits that increase your stat for xxx second after stunbreak
or interrupt are nowhere close to 750 .

i meant yes , we should not directly compare skills or traits on different classes. but thats 5 times of stats gain than other class while pvp dev saying we dont like a build with 2 defensive stats . 250 condi dmg 250 healing power 250 toughness on a spec that has tome skills to rapid heal and doing condi dmg also heavy armor .
also 220 condi dmg gain on vigor is on bar with other elite spec , not i think its a good move . but mes is certainly left behind . i much prefer anet nerf others back to 150 stats gain for something so passive since the pvp amulets were balanced around that .

Takashiro.8701:

Sword ambush + confounding suggestions could be pretty evil though.

its like trading off your huge defensive tool to a bit more bonus stuff ,this is at max a DE trait , this is nowhere close to DD dodge lol not on bar with defensive effect not on bar with offensive effect

Curunen.8729:

That sounds a bit… lame? Kind of like the GS equivalent of the cast effect of iWarlock shooting out secondary winds of chaos. Was hoping for an overcharged laser beam of death.

I wonder if MH sword might have a ranged ambush? Thinking about practicalities of clones needing to run to their target for melee, and also given Axe has a ranged ambush with those phantasmal axes it would make sense for Sword’s ambush to be ranged. I just hope it’s good.

you guys might have skipped that 1.5 cast time . It is worse than gs aa at max range lol
that is really a joke

at this point , i wont expect anything better than scepter ambush . and tbh , i think if there is anything better , WP would show us in his stream already , given how lame his “mirage over tuned ” is

Ghotistyx.6942:

You have to intentionally build for quickness uptime though. Mesmer can otherwise accidentally have high or perma Vigor uptime. However easy it is for Firebrand to maintain quickness, its easier for a Mirage to maintain Vigor.

In pvp and wvw it might be .

In pve , nope . perma quickness is granted by boon bot while vigor is not .

and in wvw and pvp , this firebrand trait combined with their tome skills and how easily firebrand apply quickness . those stats are still too much . its 750 stats . pure ridiculous if you look at other class self buff , 150 is not that good in the age of 220 stats or 20% duration or 20% dmg buff .

also by your logic :something that is harder to achieve should have better effect in this case chrono should have better quickness uptime and more to add on that comparing with firebrand far easier quickness rotation .

its same for firebrand mantra ,3 charges with better effect for each charge usage .
and somehow anet didnt apply that BS (more charge =player burn through charge to gain final greater effect )to firebrand mantra .

anet just fixed our staff and torch cdr traits after almost 2 years. i just wish for cd and stuff like mantra or stats buff , they could give us same standard treatment as other classes.

Before everyone says gw2 doesn’t have aggro mechanic.

Let me explain :

my inspiration comes from a post in fractal &raid sub forum :Changes-to-distort. tho some of the ideas originally come from pvp subforum .

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Changes-to-distort

The post clearly shows the mes is broken and will always become broken :

low dps —->forced to tank —-> people complain mes being op tank —--> cant have dps —-> forced to tank or off meta —--> more people complain like in pvp forum coz less people read mes skill/trait tooltips.

Now question is how to fix this :

give mes reasonable dps while let other class be able share quickness you may say .

but that’s not the root of the problem from that post .

the true problem is mes is forever op and nerf (low )request(IQ ) aggros on mes forever.

the first part of problem ——mes forever op is impossible to fix according to that post and many alike .

So instead anet should fix the second part :nerf (low )request(IQ ) aggros on mes forever.

I introduce you new mes elite spec :half-braindead
High- concept name like dragon hunter

But everyone dislike the name dragon hunter you say

hey that’s the point :a dumb name so players will feel half-braindead less op ,also when they complain about half-braindead is braindead op people will get lost eventually .

Class mechanic :

Read is hard (passive ) every time you use skills or process traits , everyone else on the map will see big red tooltips of that skill/traits (like in kill la kill).
Beyond belief (f5 skill) shatter all imagined Mesmer power with hard facts ,if targeted foe is logical he/she will lose aggro on mes , if not , your mes will become whatever he claims to be.

example quote from Azoqu.8917 "They only give up damage in order to: buff the group beyond belief, provide heals ,able to tank better than any other class, can invuln the group so they can ignore certain mechanics, and provide awesome break bar damage in emergencies (ya last one is a stretch but no less true). "

since mes regen source with minstrel build is from chaos line , buff the group beyond belief = inspiration+ chrono line or dom illu + chrono line , reasonable invuln share =insp + dom line , applying regen being with minstrel =I’m rich, you know .

in order to achieve such thing in the past we need to run famous 30/30/30/30/30/30/30 mes build with all gear sets stack in slots and eat up all food.
with half-braindead we can get all those from only 29$ from next expansion.

New type of skills ?Hard facts. when casted , the target foes will see big red skills name on screen.

1. learn to math : laugh at the math done by foes and lose 30% aggro.

example quote from Elbritil.3817 “distort: 1s distort every 5s for a party. so effectively u provide 20% dmg red. in the 80% (4s without distort) prot boon it brings it down to 53,6%. so basicly only u ( if u can provide the prot too) provide an effective 46,4% dmg reduction to a whole party ”

2. learn to training golem :cry whenever someone says mes doing most dps buff to whole group and lose 30% aggro .

3. learn to spam :spam whatever skill your foes claim to be spamming and lose 30% aggro.

example quote from zealex.9410 “Giving dmg immunity to your group and yourself and spamming it with pahantasms and signet makes mechanics and any real danger tha can occur in raids fractals and any pve scenario a non factor.”

heal skill ?learn to not main mes ?swap main class and restore your sanity. and lose all aggro

example quote from “I have friends who, every time they play their Mesmer, find something new that is completely OP for what they have and they admit it. They are also not Mesmer mains, I have yet to meet someone who mains Mesmer admit that they have some pretty BS abilities (my favorite is still how OP well of precognition is compared to what Guardian, the aegis class, has for aegis granting).”

Elite skill : IQ check , target foes will be forced to play mes 24/7 and lose all aggro only if targeted foe has higher IQ than 80.

quote from zealex.9410 “these builds will have the ability to spam invul by default so yeah and no the timing is not so strict since the dmg is not so instant to make it hard to use most abilities in pve have a animations and are not instant.
That with distort being isnta cast with f4 and only a small cast with phantasms or signet use in general makes it really easy”

ENJOY.

@Silverkey.2078
giving out chrono buff to others is smart or not is not the problem . the problem i said in my post is anet created a whole elite spec around quickness and alacrity which are actually not the strongest buff in gw2 pve(since in most case only damage related part matters) for a support role .in wvw maybe but u cant really do that in wvw as chrono anyway so its a moot point.

i meant anet pretty much locked chrono into quickness bot
just look at healing tempest its mirror of furture chrono fate .

game can still be healthy with unique buff stay unique while you dont always need a chrono to achieve top dps. plenty games tried different ways to solve this .

spreading unique buff is a cheap way to fix things .
on the top of that : to get the game to a so called healthy state by killing off one elite spec itself is unfair and unhealthy too

@Silverkey.2078

a druid does far more support than a chrono does and yet chrono is strongest ? in your belief maybe

and condi ranger is one of top dps dealer .

beside logic , lets check actul game play :

for dps mes build (power) u use iduelist or iswordman and pick different trait and use damage well + mantra for damage boost.

It is not hard at all to buff mes dps while keep support chrono low .
you guys made it sound like something too complicated . in the end it is not .

@Kodama.6453
your post is exactly what i said as false info .

first of all alacrity added like 7% -15%around more dps .if in the future some comp with other buff without chrono doing more dps people will pick that comp no matter how unique how demanded you think alacrity is .at very least in pve its all about math for team dps. mirror comp = 3 people buff 2 actual dps dealer , do you srsly think it will become 4 people buff 1 dps dealer?

second
just Look at LFG : people asking healer , you join as druid , people asking dps dealer , you join as condi ranger .
there is no such thing as they will force you play support . you just give two possible builds to kittening compete different role .

your post is the very example which is false info

List other support do :
war : banner ,strength trait , might stack ,reasonable personal dps

ranger :spotter ,GotL ,healing , spirit, GoE
and beside the support role ranger can play top dps build .

Now look back to chrono especially after buff to Gotl and banner :

do least increase to group dps
do least personal dps
have least unique buff
have gimmick like portal and distortion which anet tried to avoid to make them too useful in raid or new fractal (nightmare CM second boss)
require most expensive gear + more game knowledge+ more complicated rotation (fairly easier now tho with soi change but still harder than above support role)

has no reliable dps build outside condi mes on matt

therefore it feels more like strip the only two things from the poor chrono .
anet used the alacrity as ticket for rev to enter support role which is a failure but i think likely they did that as intended so less outrage from mes ,as long as people accept this anet will buff rev alacrity to something easier and more reliable we will see this happen soon enough .

it’s funny that a pure support class can do support is much more op than other class could do dps or support by choice .

I’m pretty sure if anet actually buffed mes dps ,many of us will have easier time to accept our unique buff not unique anymore .

but add wind of chaos to iwarlock is considered as “constantly pressure” by balance team lol.

and the false info among gw2 community like quickness is strongest buff and how its unfair mes increase more dps than others (tho being trash dps dealer is more than acceptable for gw2 community ).
considering anet unreasonable buff/nerf just for sake of community belief ,especial towards the mysterious class mes
the future doesnt look bright for us.

another false info among gw2 community is :chrono is still best tank .and leaked elite spec is blur based spec ,it feels like anet went : oh lets make more tank spec for mes coz thats totally a solid role not trash dps ended up as tank .

To be clear , I’m supportive for more flexible team comp ,but current direction just feels far off from common sense and logic .not to mention effort vs reward lol.

TL;DR:if anet wants to give away some so called strongest buff from the pure support class ,maybe they should not lock that class into said buff bot to begin with .

at this point we really need devs to communicate about what they want mes to do /be ?

suggest to op : theory crafting is fun , but keep in mind -

first :try not to add “new stuff ” to directly replace current meta build role in this case ps war or even quickness sharing mesmer . tome itself looks fun not gw2 does not need more raw stats stack . and ele doesnt need to be top of buffer .also we dont need more reflection for pvp sake
for example : make all tome a consumable buff which will actives when you do certain thing . fire tome : whenever you burn foes ,you consume fire tome for a flaming fire field around you which will do burn damage .
air tome :every third critical attack will consume air tome and summon a less air element.

second :try to focus on what ele actually needs : active defense for pvp ,maybe earth tome can be a decoy to absorb 1500 damage every 2 second for 6s . water tome :everytime you heal yourself you consume water tome for a burst healing (last 6s , and btw ele does not need more support potential , tempest is pretty strong for all game mode the only reason raid doesnt use tempest healer is that druid offer more dps buff ).

third :make powerful traits a trade off , minor traits should be more theme based or elite line defined .quickness or double fury effectiveness have nothing to do with shaman theme at all

forth : make the skills more shaman-ish . you added too many traits which only require general finisher . do we need more traits interact with combo , yes ,but for an elite line ,its too many therefore not much trade off.

last : stuff that should not be in gw2 for reasons no matter what .
perma quickness on almost all ele lousy rotation from weapon skills is a big no thank you . Passive Hard CC is awfully imbalanced .

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

2) I have a feeling there is a programing problem that prevents that from happening easily. I would prefer them to work as interrupts but if not, it would be better to make most traits work on CC instead of on interrupt for PvE only.

5) Rather keep the functionality same across all game modes and have it reverted to the old beta functionality. Your teammates attack are unblockable while standing in the well. It’s a coordinated bunker buster for PvP/WvW. That annoying dredge shock shield and what not could be negated in PvE with careful timing by the Chrono.

7) Don’t delete the ICD. With regen and vampiric aura, it was stupidly strong healing. However the ICD makes it suffer the same problem the guardian signet elite has. Even with a 500% buff it would be too little not often enough. I would prefer it to increase outgoing healing by a 10% bonus.

8) Same as scepter auto, I can get behind this.

1, 3 and 9)
TW overwriting itself is not the main problem. Double SoI, Well of Action and Shield 5 is 5 stacks (and they are all more than 1 second base) that prevents TW from doing anything. Changing TW to 2 seconds every 2 seconds will barely change this. Basically TW would overwrite shield 5 and only add 2 seconds of quickness every F5. Not worth the cast time and elite slot. Something as simple as changing shield 5 to be 3 seconds of quickness base going out and nothing on its way back would make TW more viable because our non-TW skills would now hit 4 instead of 5 stacks on your allies. This would then allow for the 2/2 to make a difference.

SoI doesn’t need a buff. It’s already our strongest quickness sharing skills. Then it shares a ton of other boons. I actually think it needs a bit of a nerf in other boons shared but then let it also share boons to phantasms too. I do like that minor trait in dueling. Ideally allow 2 different ways to share boons to phantasms.

i agree most of what you said .

for 7 tho
if without icd base healing could be reduced i think that’s okish , i did consider vampire aura . but if a mes with healing power + a necro could offer druid level healing in pve . i think thats a fair trade off (in pve only )it also opens up a bit more builds and team comp .

or with 5s icd , 500% healing power increase . currently its 0.2 .that means spamming mantra of pain for 3.5k heal every 5s which looks reasonable for me .

your idea for tw change is good but its a bit confused of shield 5 ToT for new players .

and for SoI , honestly its not a real buff to mes , but a bit help to condi ps . or anet could just make illusion line Shattered Strength an aoe . Also for core mes to stack some might with BP and Shattered Strength. SoI is a skill of mes not chrono . once new expansion comes out , or anet gives other class aoe quickness SoI will eat dust forever .
Its current form is too gimmick .resistance for wvw , quickness for pve . fury sharing got huge hit but still function only might stack sharing is no more now.

for all interrupt traits :

Look at ele GM : Lightning Rod history.

this trait is directly insult to mes tbh

it was for interrupt not the cc but ele was whining about "lack of cc " for the record "d/f " has more cc than mes .

and this trait changed to apply on all cc skills alo its damage is higher than old mes HS trait (this was for a short period i think ) .and cause weakness .they nerfed it tho .

i’m pretty sure anet could change all mes interrupt trait that way too .

vicious.5683:

1 .time warp : either change it to apply longer quickness but less times or change that 6 stacks limitation back to 9. It really upsets me even it’s still useful that it’s a direct evidence dev forgot about mes while doing major balance to … mes once again. also reduce its cd in pve would be good too considering next expansion.

You don’t need it anymore to have perma quickness. No reason to buff it. In fact now you can use your other elites.

2. all interrupt traits :make them useful in pve content ,like triggering those traits when mes damage break bar except power block not that it wil be op but in case anet screws something else . only thing with this change might be really powerful is mistrust which is not a bad thing .

Not all traits and skills are useful for every single game mode. It happens in all other classes.

3. SoI: change the might stack from it from 1 to 3 or 5 or 10 .10 stacks of might maybe too powerful . but 5 stacks of might will certainly help build diversity.

SoI is OP as it is now. You don’t get build diversity by buffing already strong parts of a build, au contraire you encourage more people pick the same currently fine builds.

4.Confusion damage : we could really really double confusion damage per skill use in pve .

agree, not that anything will change.

5. Well of Precognition : 3s aoe block instead of aegis , it could be fine in pvp too .(but given anet history it wont happen soon).

That would be incredible op in pvp and useless in pve.

6.Well of Calamity : tooltip from wiki :“it deals massive damage to foes in the area.” buff its damage in pve since its main function was/is burst damage . though if anet has any plan to rework mes traits + skills and add actual damage mod for mes , this one can be fine .

It’s damage is ok compared to necromancer’s wells. And remember you have mimic and f5 to activate it more than once. Besides It’s CD is too short (shorter with alacrity) to make it hit harder.

Kinda same reaction for the rest.

1. thing about TW : players should not be punished for using their elite skill alone .it is not about min max .

2.last time i checked none of other classes have this many traits which could not function in most pve boss fights at all . it is not about usefulness . it’s about making those traits function . it was same story about necro chill when break bar was introduced . anet did make chill related traits for necro function for boss fight even tho chill doesnt affect bosses at all .

3. its quite simple : team comp and condi ps . people will pick SOI no matter what else it does as long as it gives out aoe quickness . your logic is so flawed .

4. it will certain help condi mes a lot .maybe sill not meta for most bosses but feeling more rewarding for a good confusion burst from scepter is a good thing .

5. with so many unblockable stuff flying around , it will be strong yes but far away from op in pvp .also it will have use in pve if its 3s aoe block .unless you think guard f3 is trash in pve .

6. you don’t justify a weak skill by combining two long kitten cd + alacrity. and this is about pve while necro doesnt really need help for aoe damage but mes does ,so i don’t see your logic here .

so far , your argument is “if it’s not meta why bother , if it’s already meta why bother”

that attitude will lead us to well no where but stable meta forever .

Be aware : all changes are for pve only.

1 .time warp : either change it to apply longer quickness but less times or change that 6 stacks limitation back to 9. It really upsets me even it’s still useful that it’s a direct evidence dev forgot about mes while doing major balance to … mes once again. also reduce its cd in pve would be good too considering next expansion.

2. all interrupt traits :make them useful in pve content ,like triggering those traits when mes damage break bar except power block not that it wil be op but in case anet screws something else . only thing with this change might be really powerful is mistrust which is not a bad thing .

3. SoI: change the might stack from it from 1 to 3 or 5 or 10 .10 stacks of might maybe too powerful . but 5 stacks of might will certainly help build diversity.

4.Confusion damage : we could really really double confusion damage per skill use in pve .

5. Well of Precognition : 3s aoe block instead of aegis , it could be fine in pvp too .(but given anet history it wont happen soon).

6.Well of Calamity : tooltip from wiki :“it deals massive damage to foes in the area.” buff its damage in pve since its main function was/is burst damage . though if anet has any plan to rework mes traits + skills and add actual damage mod for mes , this one can be fine .

7.Healing Prism : buff its healing power scale 500% maybe ? or delete the icd . so we could have mes healer who also applies quickness, druid healer will still be better , but more builds to play around is not a bad thing .

8.make sword offhand 4 and scepter 2 block does not summon clone when u have 3 phantasmal .

9. Master Fencer and Phantasmal Fury: combine this two into one Minor GM trait:Gain fury when you strike an enemy whose health is below the threshold(75%),and whenever you apply fury , you apply fury to your phantasmal. make new Major Adept : counter strike : whenever you block , you active Illusionary Riposte effect . ICD 10s .
(this change can be apply to pvp too ,make power shatter great again but remain glassy).

10.Winds of Chaos: change this to a channel skill , a small aoe condition damage around target , also apply random boons to allies between you and target.(double the stack of condition it applies now)

11.chaos armor : reduce its cd to 20-25s .always apply boons in order : proection > regen > vigor . and apply condition in order : weakness > confusion > blind .(too much nerf from Chaotic Dampening).

12. Persistence of Memory : buff this back for pve .

13. The Pledge: not sure if current torch phantasmal still cleanse condition . last time i remembered it’s bugged .

14.Phantasmal Mage: i don’t think i need to say anything here.

15.Arcane Thievery: this skill needs a fix rather than change .also 25-30 cd is enough .

16. All Phantasmal: give us an ability to change target in combat .(this one maybe a huge reword i dont know)

17.Lost Time : no one uses it in all game mode .buff a bit plz.

18:Illusion of Life : tho generally rally skill in pve are not that useful ,but i’d like to see a rework for this skill in pve .like dealinng 10k damage or getting 8k heal instead of rally on kill. think about if future raid content will be hard enough to make use of those skills .

19. Sword AA : faster AA plz. but i can live with it if anet reword shatter and phan

Crystal Reid.2481:

This comes up a lot so I’m going to jump in quickly since it’s a new post.

Tier systems for Raids come up a lot as a result of what Fractals did. I worked on the original Fractals team and a tiered system with increased difficulty scaling was always part of the original plan for that team. It was never a plan for Raids. They are, and should remain, the most difficult content in the game.

Accessibility in terms of difficulty is something we talk a lot about internally. We’ve made efforts to help players get in by delivering entry level encounters that ease you into the content (STK) and you’ll see more of that in the next release. You’ll still see encounters that live up to previous raid expectations for mid tier and final bosses. And if you think Matthias is a chump then we have something for you as well.

Accessibility in terms of “Hey, my 5 man Fractal group wants to try raids, but we can’t find 5 other players!” is also something we talk about. It’s just a much more difficult problem to solve.

How about An in game Guild Finder ?

really it will help a lot more

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

People sure can complain just about anything, including power shatter.

well one is a thief which has high aoe damage on dodge( he killed clones more than he knew ) / condi cleanse on evade /more evade /unblockable cc

one is a necro who said on forum “coz so many block invul and dodge my aoe damage doesn’t count as aoe damage ”(they count as nuclear i suppose?)

both of them like to use term like passive defensive .

they should have clue about high aoe damage with short even no cd and auto proc and passive defensive ?

nope , they breath them like air , so other stuff like mes shield 4 must be called passive defensive ,mind wrack must be called unavoidable high aoe instantly kill button .

literally if we list all passive traits in game , mes has it least . and for every meta build , mes has it least too .

Yep this game skill floor is getting lower , but guess who is on that lower floor ?

we all know its power shatter mes , right ?

Glints Prophecy [GLNT] is a small PvE focused guild (NA)who enjoys:

• Raids
• T4 FOTM
• Dungeons
• Meta map farming
kitten
• ing around Tyria in our shinies

We are now trying to fill up our first raid progression team. We are looking for individuals who are adaptive, dedicated and patient players to conquer all 3 wings as a team. We are a mix of experienced and new raiders looking for consistent weekly kills in a relaxed, fun yet mature environment. We are mostly meta players who are late to joining the raiding scene and are looking to master raids in a friendly environment.

Raid schedule:

• Friday – 8PM (+8GMT)/11PM AUS/12 Noon PM UTC
• Sat/Sun – Either same timing as Friday or 3-5 hours earlier
  We hope to get more practise if we get enough people for weekday raids

Our prime time fits SEA/OCE/AUS players best or Odd hours NA players

If you are keen, please fill up the [Raid Application Form here](https://www.cognitoforms.com/GLNT1/GLNTRaidApplication)

If you are interested in joining but not for raiding, please use the above form too but indicate in the final comment box that you are not looking to join as a raider.

We do not require 100% rep but would appreciate people joining for missions, help out with Gilded Hollow Hall upgrading and socializing/having fun.

Fay.2357:

musu.9205:

Fay.2357:

Jerus.4350:

Fay.2357:

100% boon duration, using mimic and well of action.

CS ->shield 5, mimic SoI, well of action, SoI, CS end

This applies 5 stacks of quickness with a total duration of 21 seconds. Illusionary inspiration isn’t here because that’ll proc before you get into CS for at least the first time. The shield 5 stacks last 3 seconds each, so they’re shorter than the rest. The first shield 5 stack will wear off by the end of CS, and the second stack will simply get pushed out later in the combo. For this reason, I’ve not counted that second stack in the total duration.

Well of Action, mimic SoI, SoI

This applies 3 more stacks of quickness with a total duration of 18 seconds. By the time you execute this, the first shield 5 stack will have worn off and well of action will replace it. The first mimic will replace the low duration 3s stack from the return of shield 5. However, this puts us back at 5 stacks. Therefor, it’s imperative that the 2nd usage of SoI is delayed by at least 6 seconds from the time you first used mimic SoI inside of CS. This will likely already be the case, but it’s something to be aware of.

Ok, so that’s the initial combo. With a bit of timing precision, we’ve applied 39 total seconds of quickness. Now, we fast-forward 24 seconds to the next combo split. 24 seconds will consume 4 of your quickness stacks, leaving you with 1 when you star the combo.

Shield 5, SoI trait, SoI, well of action

This combo applies 5 more stacks of quickness with a total duration of 24 seconds. Since the previous last stack should fall off during this combo, all 5 of these stacks should apply unhindered. This brings us up to a total quickness duration of 63 seconds.

This total rotation is on a 57.5 second cooldown. This provides permanent quickness to a 5 man group. In order to buffer this up a bit, you can drop time warp inside the CS rotation. This will mostly be overwritten by the longer 6 second stacks, but it will fill up the gaps a bit and extend the overall duration slightly.

Nice post, curious on something, people are saying SOI will give you the buffs on active, but will it also spread them? So is SOI a 3s group quickness base now? If so wouldn’t you get some trait quickness in the initial setup for CS?

It doesn’t just give all buffs. It gives buffs that you currently have active. This means that in the initial setup, you won’t get quickness unless you got lucky from a random SoI proc giving it to you.

in short this balance change certainly won over the legendary smiters boon .

Wow ,skills team ,you guys are making history here.

Did you not read my analysis at all, or are you just clueless about smiter’s boon?

Smiter’s boon was purposefully nerfed into the ground. The justification given was that they simply couldn’t figure out how to balance it, so they effectively removed it from the game with a nerf.

This change to SoI makes it more difficult, but still very realistic, to hit 100% uptime on quickness for a 5-man group. What part of that says ‘nerfed so hard it no longer will be used’?

oh i misread it .ok
its not bad kitten .my bad

Fay.2357:

Jerus.4350:

Fay.2357:

100% boon duration, using mimic and well of action.

CS ->shield 5, mimic SoI, well of action, SoI, CS end

This applies 5 stacks of quickness with a total duration of 21 seconds. Illusionary inspiration isn’t here because that’ll proc before you get into CS for at least the first time. The shield 5 stacks last 3 seconds each, so they’re shorter than the rest. The first shield 5 stack will wear off by the end of CS, and the second stack will simply get pushed out later in the combo. For this reason, I’ve not counted that second stack in the total duration.

Well of Action, mimic SoI, SoI

This applies 3 more stacks of quickness with a total duration of 18 seconds. By the time you execute this, the first shield 5 stack will have worn off and well of action will replace it. The first mimic will replace the low duration 3s stack from the return of shield 5. However, this puts us back at 5 stacks. Therefor, it’s imperative that the 2nd usage of SoI is delayed by at least 6 seconds from the time you first used mimic SoI inside of CS. This will likely already be the case, but it’s something to be aware of.

Ok, so that’s the initial combo. With a bit of timing precision, we’ve applied 39 total seconds of quickness. Now, we fast-forward 24 seconds to the next combo split. 24 seconds will consume 4 of your quickness stacks, leaving you with 1 when you star the combo.

Shield 5, SoI trait, SoI, well of action

This combo applies 5 more stacks of quickness with a total duration of 24 seconds. Since the previous last stack should fall off during this combo, all 5 of these stacks should apply unhindered. This brings us up to a total quickness duration of 63 seconds.

This total rotation is on a 57.5 second cooldown. This provides permanent quickness to a 5 man group. In order to buffer this up a bit, you can drop time warp inside the CS rotation. This will mostly be overwritten by the longer 6 second stacks, but it will fill up the gaps a bit and extend the overall duration slightly.

Nice post, curious on something, people are saying SOI will give you the buffs on active, but will it also spread them? So is SOI a 3s group quickness base now? If so wouldn’t you get some trait quickness in the initial setup for CS?

It doesn’t just give all buffs. It gives buffs that you currently have active. This means that in the initial setup, you won’t get quickness unless you got lucky from a random SoI proc giving it to you.

in short this balance change certainly won over the legendary smiters boon .

Wow ,skills team ,you guys are making history here.

Jerus.4350:

messiah.1908:

this you check every other class dmg buff – 10%-40%
mesmer 6% nice
and they state sustain dmg as mesmer (so we are no longer burst class)
we medium armor and health with below average dmg – ok wth…

6% to your auto(large chunk of your outgoing damage), the 10-40% buffs I see elsewhere are onto skills with cooldown(smaller pieces of damage). And don’t forget the 100% buff to blurred Frenzy damage…

Not saying it’s enough of a buff, just this post of yours isn’t very honest.

last time they tried to make thief a viable dps role , they buffed its AA damage by 30%

so yes that 6% and 100% damage buff on BF wont help mes get anywhere near a reasonable dps role .

DPS Mes was a joke before patch , is a joke after patch , will be a joke til next expansion. .
so yes every mes got reasons to feel salty about thta 6 % damage buff

BTW guys check out engi buff lol

anet literally has zero clue :

buff the already strong ability by 33% or 50% or 100%
and nerf tool kit lol

too much from skills team .

mes the lowest dps class got least damage buff ,
logic

apharma.3741:

nsleep.7839:

The auto-attack is underwhelming, but the Blurred Frenzy hits really hard now.

SoI changes are affected by Boon Duration, but the stack limit changes are harsh, time to work on a new rotation for it to keep the Quickness uptime.

I think most groups with an average mesmer will just not run mesmer depending on alacrity DPS buffing. The rotation even just thinking about it for a sec is going to require very precise timing on your boon sharing.

We’re talking top tier timing on the level of most speed clear groups for timing.

or me with usual ping 200 . that ping will usually cost me 2s or more quickness while doing all other stuff , even tho my guild would accept me as mes or other class in raid . im kittened by this change + that 6 %damage increase.

overall mes dps will be increased by like less than 20% with sword which means still bottom of all classes .

are you excited for new era of kicking mes out group content ?

Fay.2357:

I can’t be ingame right now, can someone post the base durations of the SoI boons, as well as whether the active applies boons to you as well?

3s for quickness

last time they try to buff thief to get it a slot in raid . its 30% AA damage buff

GOOD LUCK ON THAT 6% DAMAGE INCREASE .

anet is just telling us :
we kittened balance patch again as usual .
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Balance-Changes-Upcoming

To help compensate for these general reductions, we’ll be increasing both damage and a few different baseline boon durations.

so Signet of inspiration now will do 100 damage to something .or scepter speed buff 5% on skill 2 .enjoy .

btw anet basically killed inspiration line GMs for wvw purpose while rev and guard are the main issue there.(melee train was meta for 4 years and only grew stronger . yet anet is going to nerf other classes coz people started using them .

im going to take a break anyway .

Note : mes position in raid is not the main problem i have with this so called balance patch . So either mirror double mes will be a thing , i will not feel different.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

It should be pretty obvious this topic isn’t about fixing mesmer dps in its entirety for PvE.

When the alternative is WvW whining resulting in a nerf to SoI and chrono failing out of existence, I would prefer a change that doesn’t break WvW and PvP but also buffs the raid DPS and phantasm pure DPS builds.

I think what he meant is your fix will shift more mes damage into phantasm which is what most mesmers hate also anet claimed they do not intend to create the playstyle of mes are camping phantasm without using shatter.

And phantasm in itself has many problems : AI passive play is hard to balance , single target issue , phantasm hp ,competing with our shatter etc etc.

hence why he said we dont really wish anet push that trend further . its like hey lets buff condi ele for sake of someone enjoys that playstyle .

i went to wvw forum to see the discussion but honestly do you guys feel wvw forum is bit too hypocritical regarding the boonsharing issue there . they are trying to direct the nerf to mes instead of those rune and importantly the rev which is of course the most op thing in all game modes .(they even made up some trait and skill usage lol when rev has plain 50% boon duration out there , come on )

it looks funny for me ,for like 3 years GWEN way was largely accepted ,now the actual comp is just slightly changed over time even with massive power creep introduced from hot . And they talk about the boonsharing meta forced wvw into one dimension.
it is a problem , but hey after the nerf to confusion bomb , the nerf to war sniper and so on .
they are totally entitled to get back to their so interesting melee train lol.

anet should just make wvw gear like spvp but you can still use food and oil . It will hurt many wvw players who grind their precious gears but it will do more good to game health. at least we dont hear such hypocritical hate towards mes(i laughed so hard many times wvw forum whining about pu mes after that 100% duration nerf) .

I’m not sure if they ever thought of one thing that when other modes have like 8/9 classes in meta but wvw is overall just same 4-5 classes dominating for 3 years(necro wasnt in meta before ele aoe capped at 5 but guess they forgot this too ) ,people would leave wvw too not for the so broken boonnshare so broken confusion bomb or ranged cc when stability changed .People may leave wvw right after they are told by wvw guilds they have to run GREN and gear char which is only useful in wvw or go home .

yes the cancer meta will drive the hardcore group leave soon or later but without more roles for other classes ,far less people will join in not to mention gw2 overall is a causal game .

So for a healthy game mode, nerfing one of the less used class for certain issue which is also caused by gear stats , other class and food without touching other things , is not helping at all .

Amadan.9451:

i use mesmer in my t4 fractals everyday i do guild runs usually, no pugs, i give them a lot of quickness and alacrity, and i know i am not doing that much damage, but i’m providing lots of utility. commander stats or berserker i don’t think make that much of a difference anyway, just use what you feel comfortable with

dont forget the rise of guards since the boon thief is gone now . guard is generally more useful for less skilled group now . mes is only better than guard when group can stack properly and get quickness . or for few rare cases where distortion works but block donest .

i ran mes even when boon thief is there , and i managed to maintain quickness for many boss fights .but currently it feels like when i have so many alts , mes is not that important for t4 fractal .

Exciton.8942:

CptAurellian.9537:

I tend to disagree. Mesmer has a nice tool box for high level fractals, especially for those where reflects are useful (underground, uncategorised and chaos spontaneously come to my mind). Some wells and null field also offer great utility. At least in groups that aren’t fully optimised and organised, I’ve often had the impression that runs are more smooth with a mesmer than without.

With regard to commander gear however, I’m a bit more sceptical. If you already have it, I guess you can simply try/use it, since mesmer dps isn’t great anyway. But be aware that there’s quite a bunch of cases where you won’t be able to give out any meaningful buffs because your group is all over the place.

Reflects are not needed. Other professions have plenty projectile hate.
Wells and null field are hard to use because players 9 out of 10 times don’t stack and 99 out 100 times they will leave the well before the final tick as if it were something harmful.

In PUG run, mesmer is unfortunately my least want-to-see profession. A well-played mesmer is still a nice addition but it seems majority of the mesmer players don’t know what they are doing these days. So many of them just camp Greatsword and think they are doing amazing damage. There is no focus pull, no timewarp, no alacrity/quickness and no distortion share.

honestly tho distortion sharing is less important now with new toxic thing . but pull , shield stun ,power block , gravity well became more useful .the sad part is usually even you as a mes doing all those important interrupt ,people wont notice only yourself know that fact if you dont interrupt all those deadly charges from ascalonian wars your team could have been wiped out or had to dodge away and kill things much slower .

tbh even the leak is true , anet could change the elite spec , specially weapon .i assume the next expansion will come out in late 2017 .

too earlier to talk about that .

I saw someone idea like boon control , just like necro corruption skill .the self applied condi will be self boon removal for mes .

elite spec ? gain access to another energy source : Mirror which will be 3 tiny rings around the 3 pink dots . all your skill which generate clone will generate mirror ring instead.(phants will be untouched )so the pink dot = phants , blue mirror ring = your new energy source .

for each mirror ring you have ,you will shatter one more time on yourself .

we could have some skills working this wayall skill will remove 1 unique boon from yourself )

1.remove 2 unique boons from yourself and for each boon removed it send 3 stacks of might and stabilty to allies around you . cd 25s(also stun break )
2. absorb 3 unique boons from foes around you and give you a second skill which is an aoe to grant the boons to allies . cd 25s
3.remove 1 unique boons around the target, gain 1 mirror for each boons removed . cd 15s

heal: absorb all boons on you. heal small amount then grant all boons on yourself for 2s (just like thief skill) then it will give you a 4s buff which heal you for every boon you self apply .

elite : it create a field which denies enemies boons effect and generating for 10s , and for each boon it blocked it will damage foes for xxx damage . 90s cd

someone trait :
1. whenever you remove unique boon , your damage is increased by 15%
2.whenever you remove unique boon from yourself .you deal xxx damage around you icd 10s

GM trait :

1.your ”corruption skill “ will remove one more unique boon but for each unique boon you remove it will give you 1 mirror ring .

2. add an effect to your f4 shatter : it will grant an aoe buff around you which will double effectiveness of all boons ,duration is same as f4 shatter .

3. when you summon phants ,you consume all your mirror ring and add a blast damage to your phants first attack . ofc more mirror ring consumed , more damage will be dealt .

messiah.1908:

musu.9205:

the original leak source also claimed that mirage will get blur to replace dodge , i dont know how it will work . but hopeful nothing like tthat thief boring 3 dodges . thats surely lazy and add little to gameplay .also we dont need another support role

so instead of dodge we evade through blur. wth? same thing different name

we need blur to be unique not just evade.

like reflect all dmg not just projectiles
give retaliation
blind maybe
smoke field

etccc…

you may want to check reddit yourself .i feel its more like thief 3 dodges thing but i can do wronng .
also it seems you will share blur which we currently can do now often with inspiration line + signet trait in dom line .

it sounds so weird for me

the original leak source also claimed that mirage will get blur to replace dodge , i dont know how it will work . but hopeful nothing like tthat thief boring 3 dodges . thats surely lazy and add little to gameplay .also we dont need another support role

PU condi after like 3 years you wvw players still cant deal with this ?for real
PU condi mes is weak to condi since it has to run chaos ,illusion and chrono line .if a mes run inspiration line he will loss the damage heavily. its either you use condi to kill them or they dont have enough damage to kill you .its a cheap build for sure but your reason doesnt make up for the nerf you demand (or in simple words its a L2P issue ).

and how are you supposed to nerf pu mes without hurting power shatter more ?

about thief , trapper build may take some nerf or adjust . its not op but not healthy for gameplay .other than that thief is fine .

and trap ranger takes skill ?purposely building a spec without much condi clean or stunbreak doesnt mean it take more skills .its just gimmick .and why you have to nerf that when many other classes can do much more .

and why on earth you want to nerf some builds which are only there to escape ?
its not like the builds you mentioned can be offensive and defensive at same time (if u wanna say pu mes does that , clone traits are gone long time ago).

If anything , anet should look at rev in all game modes . it grossly op and created unhealthy meta in all game mode before they nerf something like trap ranger.