so there are like 5+ posts I see already on the first page people are indirectly asking for the best builds in the game for Ele (SPvP)
Though people to seem to beat around the bush, so I will just ask directly. What is currently the best SPvP build since metabattle might be out of date?
(I know, I know…“depends on situation, what if ur fighting a necro vs fighting a guardian”….Here I am just straight out asking for the best build out there right now, since there are always a best build, if you want to dwell into the whole situational fighting, please do it by sending a link for each situation you presume will happen, like vs mesmer etc…..just to keep the actual reason for this thread real instead of theory crafting about a sudden appearance of tequatl)
I got the feeling some people did not read the actual suggestion. I would actually like it more, if instead just increase dmg, health etc of each unit, that the unit required more skill to kill. At the very least, hero point bosses, other other bosses that will most likely be done solo or in a very small group (and by that I mean that the opponent stuns, dodges when attacked, heals etc) This way, it becomes more interesting to fight 1v1 and explore-
To the people sugguesting that the game is not hard, I would recommend you to make a lvl 25, you probably have the means to do so, and go LFG for only lvl 25´s. I used to solo Arah with a thief, back in the days of 2 dodges and also fully did path 4 arah alone, and I have dont catacomb……really…really many times, to the point I know the rotation of all the graveling burrows. And with 1 lvl 80´s and 4 lvl 25-ish players, we still managed to not complete it.
Doing it with 2-3 lvl 80´s is simply to easy, the AOE and sustain is to strong, but with 1 or less, the challenge becomes real
You should be able to, you probably have at least like 500+ tomes of knowledge, so making a lvl 25 would be quickly done, and buying gear takes 2 secs from any random shop.
If you do not like an argument, using valid reasoning to not get it build is good, using “I need them to work on something else” or “A-Net do not have time to do that” is just plain wrong…..and I mean completely wrong
“I need them to work on something else” is perfect valid reasoning. It’s like you are saying that if I don’t like a feature then saying that I want them to work on something that I actually like is a bad thing.
Of course always within reason, saying “I don’t want them to make gem store outfits and instead add more cats” is invalid because there are different teams working on those things. Same with saying “I don’t want them to add more Fractals, I’d rather they add more WvW maps”, different teams, different things. So it depends on the suggestion. There are those where it is valid, and those that it is invalid.
Well, we already know so far they they are split into groups for doing stuff in the game (Like SPvP have their own group), so using it as 1 aspect of the game vs another, is I explained previously, plain wrong (seems like you agree here).
Where we do not agree, seems to be using the dev time line, to get another idea you like better ahead. But the problem here is again, we do not know how much time each takes to be implemented in games, for me it is just a waste of text, unless if the devs did say it wont happen or will take a long time (even though they already did say that with mounts etc)
Because devs ultimately not only decides, but also mainly the only once who have an idea of how long it might take (again, the whole "Reward for wvw took a loong time even though nothing big visually came from it, while making a new raid path took very little time to implement). So using the text that would have used by saying “Devs dont have time for that” seems better used by giving constructive criticism to the actual idea.
Using it in any sense, beside dev said it, or that the person asking is impatient (I want it before xx) just seems wrong to me
Excelsior.
No, this is not and will never be an excuse. They are paid developers to develop, right? If paid developers won’t develop anymore because everything is requiring time and staff (ressources, money – you name it), then they – ironically – unemployed soon. Feedback from customers is mandatory and I often do listen to my customers and spend a few hours at something even though my bosses don’t like that I am doing that. (Or writing a handy real-worklife guide for my trainee – oh boy, don’t get caught sitting on the PC writing stuff in Word because “daz not reel workz, not wurth it!”, but when my both bosses read it, they copied for further references it because it was helpful – WTF…Ambivalence much?) But in the end, the customers, my colleagues and even the supervisor liked it. Yes, video game industry works different than my profession, but this “forbidden time” was worth it, that’s what I want to say. If you never try and come up with “no time”, why do you even get up in the morning?
It does not matter if the developers of whatever kind themselves say that or their bosses and people that plan the budgets/funds – the excuse is cheap in any form, like a big chicken-and-egg problem in its core.
All the other stuff people will talk in this thread basically revolves around those two basic statements I did.
EDIT: I am talking about the very basic idea of employment/work motivation, not about stupid “QoL” suggestions that pop up here and there. It often reads just like people – not necessarily linked to this thread – never do more than the very least because they claim it’s not worth any time, but then, why do they get up in the morning?
That is an interesting ideology, but it does not really touch the subject at hand?
Edited what I wrote, since I saw your edited post in the end
This is not a SWOT, but a CBA (Cost-Benefit Analysis).
Profitability is always considered, just not maybe by someone at your brother’s pay grade. His bosses’ bosses’ boss is likely doing that and sending the yes/no decision on development direction downstream to your brother’s desk. Depending on the size of the organization and the culture, there may be a focus on customer enjoyment where it is OK to ignore a degree of unprofitable decisions if the end result is a much happier customer, but that culture almost always changes as the company grows (big companies attract big investors and big investors care about making big dollars right now).
I’m also going to reiterate that we don’t have the data that ArenaNet does, and thus cannot say for certain what is and is not profitable. We can make guesses, and sometimes those guesses are very close to being 100% accurate due to the information at hand. A complete redesign of the game’s engine is definitely unprofitable, for example, since it would cost millions of dollars and generate 0 dollars in revenue.
Ohh ok, because using a SWOT here would not make much sense. The biggest problem is in general, that we simply do not know how they cooperate, we do not know how much control NCsoft got over the game or the devs. I get that we can make guesses, but if you think about what have been implemented since HoT, most of these implemented ideas comes from something people guessed wouldnt have been worth it in time or money for Gw2 (from GH, SPvP/WvW maps/updates, gliders, Raids, mounts etc).
What I am saying is, using that argument in anyway is just ironically unesecary waste of time, and a very wild guess, as explained previously. Simply because they really do not know. To explain it simpler.
A-Net have already changed majorly since beginning, most of the things they explicitly said they would not do, they did (if not all).
It is as if they have chosen the things people said “Gw2 will never have this because time and money not worth” and did it.
I get people think they know what A-Net will or will not have the time to make, but as explained previously, small things like changing rewards in WvW, which is nothing visible took a looooooong time to do, while putting a new map in, with hearts to do, conversations, new monsters/bosses buildings….you name it, took around 2-3 months.
So using that infamous argument just seems out of place, and waste of time, since it is literally a guessing game that rarely ever hits close to the 100% or even 5-10% based on the people saying “raids wont happen” or “Mounts wont happen”.
And just for the people who are using this argument as an “I want them to work on my stuff, not PvP or WvW” They have already explained on stream countless times, that they got groups set up to do the different tasks, PvP team, Raid team, PvE team etc. (They said this, because people got mad Raids got more “attention” than other parts of the game)
It is not like they all gather around and make a new PvP map and then might find a bug someplace then all work on that and then they think “lets make a new raid” and then do that.
If you do not like an argument, using valid reasoning to not get it build is good, using “I need them to work on something else” or “A-Net do not have time to do that” is just plain wrong…..and I mean completely wrong
Companies exist for one purpose, and that is to generate profit for the owners of the company.
To generate profit, revenue must exceed expenses.
When considering changes to the company’s product, the following questions must be asked:
1. What will the change cost?
2. What will be the change in revenue?
3. What will be the change in expenses?
4. What will be the cost of doing nothing (i.e. lose clients if you don’t do it)?
5. Could the change cost be spent on something that would be more profitable (i.e. do we make more money if we do B instead of A)?Once you have answered those questions, you can then decide if the change is profitable.
We, the players, cannot answer those questions accurately, but sometimes it is pretty safe to assume the answer.
For mounts, the change is profitable because ArenaNet can monetize skins in the gem store, which will lead to increased revenue that far outpaces the cost and expenses. It is also likely to be a change that is more profitable than doing many other things players have asked for, which makes it an ideal candidate for change.
For build saving, the change is likely not profitable because ArenaNet may have limited or no monetization options which means that there will be no increased revenue to offset the cost and expenses, so the only gain will be a stoppage of customer loss (which may be very minor over something like this).
These are guesses, but they are educated, safe guesses based on real life business factors.
They are not meant to imply that a suggestion is good or bad, merely that they may not be profitable enough to be realistic.
I used to go to a business school (ZBC), and what you seem to be mentioning is something like the SWOT analysis, and my brother literally is gonna start this month programming where he will get 5.5k$ each month. I do not know how A-Net or the Gw2 team colaborate, but I find it very unlikely that the developers actually take measures like the SWOT analysis before implementing an idea, furthermore, I do not know if NC soft controls the gem store or not. But I am about to enter my bachlor, which I hope will proovide me with enough knowledge to find these out.
Though I would look at their press conference call, and the powerpoint, it indicates that they do distribute money
http://irsvc.teletogether.com/ncsoft/ncsoft2017Q2_eng.php
http://irsvc.teletogether.com/ncsoft/pdf/ncsoft2017Q2_eng.pdf
(They do talk in japanese, and translate it to english in the call)
It is basically saying that the mobile genre, will be huge, and the powerpoint shows that Gw2 is earning the least, but it really showcases how it all works.
Which remind me, that using money as the reason of why developers implement ideas, should not be a reason either. Since again, it is not like devs are like “we prob will make a huge chunk of money by making this” At least not according to the work my brother have done so far, there are of cause much more to it, but it almost seems like people believe that devs just make stuff for the reason of getting money, while the fact seems to indicate otherwise.
And to put a real end to this “devs should/is make(ing) this for profit”
As you know, this have been suggested for literally 4 years or longer now, though the most common answer is, that there is not enough time, nor will it benefit the developers in cash. There are literally 100 things they could have done, if they wanted a increase in profit, making mounts where you can only dye top half half, does not seem to be a good reason. Again, idk how much you can customize these mounts, but based on the things they have showcased, it really does not seem to be worth it.
On this link you can see the……massive number of people who thought it wouldnt be worth it, and how much time it would require is not worth it…..
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Mounts-merged
Sorry, I got a bit out of hand here, but using logic like “profitable” “time” etc, where there is really no telling how much time it would take, how profitable it really is from our point of view, and you using swot analysis kinda “wrong”, also triggered me a bit if I have to be honest
ok thank you for your answers everyone, though I want to keep in mind that my third sentence is the primary argument of why it should not be used, since a few of the comments above seems to have glossed over that one
Most answers to suggestions here seems to be about “development time” I get that A-Net have previously explained that it takes time to build a feature into a game, but it seems like any idea, small once and big once, always turn to the familiar “I like the idea, but development time might be to long” answer.
I personally do not find this as being a real answer to anything. Most, if not all people answering sugguestions for anything in the game, dont know how they programmed it into the game or and how long it might take. Creating a new full grown map might take a few months, while a small feature adding to something in the black lion trading market might take longer, we simply dont know.
Even if they had a hunch of some sort, liking an idea, but not wanting it to be implemented because of time seems to be a sentence that contradict itself. Since in that sense, nothing will ever be implemented. Literally nothing, from glider, mounts to raids, SPvP maps, wvw rewards etc etc………You get the notion, I just dont really understand using that sentence as an answer to anything here, using it to people who are to impatient is understandable, but using it to shut down an idea seems….just wrong
There might of cause be something I have missed, and that is the reason almost every suggestion contains “not worth the time” answer? If there is, please do inform me.
What would you want to change. What do you wish never happened at launch and what would you rework now if you could start over with a blank slate. What do you love about gw2 and would want to keep the same?
Personally I would want to
-Change how the armor system works entirely, doing away with heavy light and medium. Make armor a basic model with only 1 look and 1 mesh. Then have all customization done with skins. Outfits wouldn’t exist, just skins.
-Remove stats from armor and make armor all about customization through sigils and slots. Make traits have more depth and have traits the sole focus of build customisation. Add slots for permanent tonics and aura effects.
-Improve on core maps events. Making more meta events and less random small events to create more narrative driven maps as well as making events easier to find and follow. Have a meta always up and tie achievements to each meta. Make large visual changes to maps once the meta is done, especially in orr.
-Rework S1 to change the focus more on dragons and less on scarlet and her alliances. Make it repeatable and not temporary.
-Solidify basic systems that got way too many reworks and were unfinished at launch like dailies, minigames and fractals.
-Improve the final zhaitan fight
-Do literally everything differently in pvp..sorry but yeah..
I would keep the exploration, idle npc chatter, personal story choices, map design, mounts, gliding, collections, achievement driven content, jumping puzzles, world bosses and instance content the same.
-
I will just answer yours…….since I very much do like how it started out.
-That would make customization very boring and not that different based on if ur light/medium or heavy. Removing outfit would also limit the potential of costumes you can make. But again, I mainly do WvW and never have other gears showcased.
-I kinda agree on this, but I hate to grind anyways, and currently Viper/minstreal is what I need, and that require some time and gold to get
-I would not go so far, the flow/exploration and no grind was literally the main reason as of why Gw2 got a 10/10 score from Angry Joe at that given time (if you look at the reviews from 4-5 years ago, all the big reviewers mentioned heavily on the tiresome grind is over with Gw2, and now people can enjoy the game and have fun). People played Gw2 because there was no grind, that everything was open, explore and the world was interesting from every aspect, an asura telling his life story that you now have to figure out how to open to get into it, the pirate ship jumping puzzle in LA, the dark room in the icy place where a skrit comes out…etc etc
Meta events came out solely because people needed something to repeat again and again until expansion came out, not because it is more fun to do. And that would have driven a lot of people off at that given time before people got settled in the game.
-well, it isnt from the beginning LS1 begins but a year after or something, but maybe. It got weird when they jumped from dragons to…..that….
-Well, dalies and fractals weren’t there at launch, and as you may have guessed, the rework in these 2 areas, was generally done to repeat the content
-Yeah zhaitan fight in the dungeon was basically keep pressing 2, even though the way up to him was quiet a lot of fun.
-In the beginning pvp was very interesting, because it was new and different at that given time. But yeah, I would probably change it…to PvP aswell
The wow factor doesn’t make or break a game. It can generate interest in a game, but in isolation, it becomes a gimmick.
If Anet make an expansion with good story telling, solid mechanics and appealing visuals, they are 90% of the way to success.
Yeah…..maybe. I dont know tbh, this comment does fell like the “size (in games, moderators hehehe :i) doesnt matter” comments, which might be true or not…..It depends on too many things, I dont know what currently is there, or what would be possible to create instead…..
But thank you for your answers everyone, just wanted to know if there was still some things we have not seen yet like supported GvG or new raids.
So here we have a proponent of dueling calling other people’s opinion’s childisih I’m sure I’m not the only one who sees the irony.
I’m not calling you childish for wanting to duel.
I see the irony alright. It’s quite hilarious.
sorry, but you should probably quote my answer to this, or at the very least, his whole answer:
“Sorry to say, but you are touching on a subject and adding a perspective to the argument that was never there. I have explained this countless of times, but I did not target anyone by this comment, it was intended to some of the posts that I read in the link that was provided to me, where people did create rather weird scenarios that I have never heard about, or mentioning that it is only fair, if we put massive bosses and roam around SPvP, while there are already minions “bosses” in SPvP that do normaly count for a major portion of the points you can get.
I repeat, I did not call any particular person(s) argument childish, and I have not mentioned who it might be, and I have not made a direct corelation between my comment and the comment from the link as mentioned. Nobody will be able to state out whom ive not agreed with……..
….And sorry to say, but if you are making a statement that I should not call other childish you really shouldnt call other peoples kids 2 lines later. Please do restrain yourself from doing that, my comment aswell as your comment, was not targeted towards anyone, I do apologies if anyone is offended, but I did not target any particular person"
A few days ago I watched a streamer that did make me think about that PoF might not have a wow factor like HoT did.
I just really quick want to mentioned that I do like what I am currently seeing, personally I do not like the meta maps so the new PoF maps previewed seems great.
But the main wow factor in PoF seems to be the mounts, in HoT we had GH, GvG (kinda), new masteries, legendaries, raids etc etc. But it does not seem like PoF got this yet? Is this because we dont know it all yet, or is it because mounts is the main wow factor?
Well first of, people not wanting another objective inside SPvP was far later, very far later. There was no one not liking the SPvP at first, the objective as fine. It was first a few years later people began to ask for Deathmatches in SPvP, because they did find the maps and game mode very repetitive. This happened after people “broke” the game and created guilds to fight other guilds from other servers that they were not meant to be able to, only way done was either already knowing the enemy in WvW was blocking, writing name, unblock and then whisper.
And this is where the main event comes in “To Much Resources Needed, Not Worth It” arguments.
There have already been several responses to this, we do not know how much resources is needed, but a lot of people guess that it would not be that much. We have several places witnessed that they can change you from normal green to foe, both in GH, this new map in Heart of the Mists, and even Living World Events like https://youtu.be/pch59ybwHa8?t=826Coming to a conclusion by your own that it would require to much resources, is like me saying that it is already there, they just do not decide to activate it for 2 players to fight…..We simply do not know, and creating reason behind something you really have 0 idea about is literally not an argument of why not, or why they should do it, it is a theory. if you had just some idea, a hint of an idea how much time is required, then I would start to favor your thoughts, but this is just a moot argument that is unnecessary to ever take up for any reason or any other thread…..literally ever. Using the I can honestly not take this lightly, using that argument should never be a thing, it is literally like saying that you do not know if it takes a day, week or month, but you would rather want them not to use any time on small things ever, no matter how much they benefit the people, afk people etc, because you want that thing that takes years to make.
seems very restrictive, as in any other game I have personally ever played with a duel system………Any of your request does simply not happen, seems as if you are confusing duels with open world PvP.
I am not confusing duels with open world PvP.
No, I don’t know how much work it is, but all work they put into the game has to have justification in terms of players they think will use it. I don’t think the number of users that will use it long term justifies the work that would be required to put into it. It’s not like any of the current areas are being used by a lot of people. Those of you who wanted duels in PvE areas really should have used those areas in order to have proof of a large player base that would duel long term. You obviously don’t want to duel enough to use those areas.
And I was referring to putting duels in keeping in mind the extra requirements that I would want to have in place in order to support dueling being added.
I am sorry, but personally I can not accept this thought process. You have no idea if it might only take 1 day (obviously extreme scenario……I think, honestly could be…idk) to create a link between 2 people so they see can fight, and maybe a count down on the screen……the whole being able to see opponent as explained have already been there in pve in living story, hearts etc……but you still believe that it wont need it? At least 20+ people roam WvW everyday, the new Heart of the mist all arena place where you literally just fight always got at least 5 people in it.
And most importantly of all, I never said this would be huge, and important aspect of the game. as mentioned, it is one of those small things that would improve the game, since people do sometimes want to duel, and creating a duel system if you are bored perhaps a few times per day/week, or even a few times per month would make it more accessible and easier. Like everything else in the game.
This^
I honestly do not get it, people are creating scenarios over and over again, that simply do not happen in any other game, I have never seen people run after you to duel, I have seen people ganking in open world, but it simply seems like people are confusing the 2 game modes? I honestly do not know, but it is sometimes really frustrating to respond to a message where as the scenario truly never, or very, very rarely would happen. Like once per year or 3 years.
It is almost literally like box of fun in tequatle, people did not come to tequatle to fight each other with box of fun, it is for fun, when tequatle come, people stop fighting because they came to kill tequatle. The same effect duel have, and even if you are super super unlucky, like half a year stuff of doing tequatle everyday, 2 people might still be fighting even doing teq, but there will still be a lot more afking…..It is quiet frustrating to answer like this, because these arguments are not fair in anyway, it is like I have to explain the situation of reality in other games, even though people are most likely fully aware of how the situation is with dueling.Anybody who disagrees with you is creating a scenario that never happened, you say this over and over again, doesnt mean you are correct. Im against dueling because ive played games with dueling, and ive seen both the good and the bad that comes with it, i dont like the mindset that players seem to get when they can duel, and yes ive been followed by people, and messaged by people because ive refused a duel. Sure you can report them/block them, but by then the damage is done. Id rather keep that vileness in PVP where it belongs, not in the very friendly PVE environment we have now, where it doesnt.
GW2 is popular because it lacks alot of things that people despise MMOS for, ive stuck with it for that very reason, and one of those reasons is the lack of dueling(for me personally), there are many others, one of them was mounts and i lost a little faith in ANET when they announced they where gonna be adding them.
You saying that people make up scenarios that you personally havent seen, doesnt mean they dont happen, and while you havent done it, alot of the people that request dueling, call people who are against cowards, and thats what im against, just the sheer act of being told no, on a request thread warrants being called a coward to them, its childish at best.
As mentioned before. I am sad to hear that people do follow you for duels. I have just never personally experienced this fact. I have seen people follow others because they want to gank, or because the game does provide open world PvP, so trying to kill another person is a way to go about it when bored……And again I hate open world PvP, WvW is a system where the designers created it to only be about fighting others, where there arent a heart you have to do, and I very much like that, nobody goes into WvW believing otherwise.
But I have just not personally ever experienced a person really wanting me to duel if I am just walking by or crafting some gems (another game) If they do ask for a duel (not open world PvP, where safe zones are created, but an actual duel in a city or afk kinda of place) It is simply because I literally stand on the duel place.
Maybe we just have different ideas, I do believe that it will be in the beggining hectic, people will run around asking for duels because its new (like any other new thing added to the game, people do jump on it) but because of no reward, I can say it will be like the open pvp in the new Heart of the Mist, people will calm down and then only 5 or less players will be standing there, fighting a bit 1v1 and calmly.
It does sound to me like you believe that there will be at least 20%+ people standing around in every city asking for duels all around places, and asking people who are just making gear or afking in the city, or even follow along in the meta maps and asking for duels.
That is where I have a very different ideology in the matter, for me that would literally not make sense without an open world PvP, where people can gank you etc, which again I really, really do not want to be implemented in the game since wvw is already a thing.
There’s no way this would affect PvE in any way.
What happens if where you are dueling there are mobs around? Or events?
As soon as a third party interferes (mobs) the duel is canceled and both participants are restored to the health they had before the duel and the world keeps on spinning.
Do you honestly believe that this would be fast enough? They would also need to check if you are in range of mobs and/or events when you click on someone to send a duel request. I’m not sure if that’s even possible.
No. Dueling out in PVE will never work and saying that it won’t affect PVE is false. The only way it could work is inside very specific places, like that arena in the Black Citadel for example.
The kitten do you mean fast enough? As soon as u get hit the duel is over and u get back to normal. It’s really not a complicated system at all. I dont know what kind of scenarios are you picturing in your head but its rly baffling. Ppl are not gonna start to duel mid event, ppl are not gonna duel mid leather farm, ppl are not gonna duel mid meta event.
Ppl will duel because they are in a group or with some firends and they will be “hey lets duel” so instead of going throught all the struggle of going to the arena and leaving what you are doing just for a quick duel they can just do it there, and i really fail to see how that will affect ANYTHING in PvE.
This^
I honestly do not get it, people are creating scenarios over and over again, that simply do not happen in any other game, I have never seen people run after you to duel, I have seen people ganking in open world, but it simply seems like people are confusing the 2 game modes? I honestly do not know, but it is sometimes really frustrating to respond to a message where as the scenario truly never, or very, very rarely would happen. Like once per year or 3 years.
It is almost literally like box of fun in tequatle, people did not come to tequatle to fight each other with box of fun, it is for fun, when tequatle come, people stop fighting because they came to kill tequatle. The same effect duel have, and even if you are super super unlucky, like half a year stuff of doing tequatle everyday, 2 people might still be fighting even doing teq, but there will still be a lot more afking…..It is quiet frustrating to answer like this, because these arguments are not fair in anyway, it is like I have to explain the situation of reality in other games, even though people are most likely fully aware of how the situation is with dueling.
If you want to duel, you an Go to the Guild Arena and fight.
You can go to an sPvP map and fight
You an go to a WvW map and fight.
People who want to fight other players can use these options.
The last thing PvE players need is a bunch of people with over inflated egos challenging everyone that does not agree with them to a duel.
On top of that, the last thing PvE maps need is the endless salty crying of wanna be pvp’ers.
I still honestly do not get that mindset. It is like you are differentiating the game between PvP´ers and PvE´ers. As if PvE’ers never went to wvw or pvp and WvW´ers/pvpers never went to PvE content…which is a weird to position an argument. Even if I would were to accept this as a valid argument as of why dueling should not be in PvE, I would still be able to turn it around and say that PvE is still in those 2 PvP games, and in most if not all cases, killing a PvE mob in WvW or SPvP always count for more than killing a player. So adding a duel, which is considerably small and doesnt reward anything in PvE, should be a given right.
I am not saying this should ever become a valid argument as of why duel should be implemented, I am just presenting an answer if you truly believe that PvE and PvP players are like 2 different worlds where as each get a bit from the devs each time, and that we should take the whole “if you are in pvp you pvp and if in pve, you pve” argument seriously, instead of putting up the argument in a fair way.
And I seem to recall threads in the PvP and WvW sections complaining when ANet added in [more] PvE content. That they would actually prefer the PvE content removed from PvP and WvW.
So even the PvP and WvW crowd don’t want mixing between the modes.
I say no to duels.
The amount of work needed to put it into place compared to the number of players that would actually use it long term are prohibitive.
Because to me it would have to do the following:
1. You could only duel someone that is your level +/- 3 levels using this method. Going to PvP or a guild hall or WvW would have to be used for players with a greater level difference.
2. Duels would only be allowed in special instances in racial cities and Lion’s Arch (or other appropriate duel type arenas in other maps).
3. If there are any kind of duel specific rewards, a fraction should be given to those who lose. So if you get 10 duel credits if you win, you get 5 if you lose. That way someone who wants a duel reward but is bad at dueling can get the item(s) they want eventually.
4. Harsh punishments for the childish duelers who don’t take no for an answer. I don’t think anyone in this thread would be such a dueler but you can’t say they don’t exist or that they wouldn’t come to the game.
5. Not open to the F2P players.
6. Players have to opt in to getting challenges, it’s opt out by default. And pestering someone who has opted out to opt in would be subject to #4.
7. Being opted in does not mean that a player has to accept any and all challenges. That way players who do want to do duels, but not all the time don’t have to constantly adjust their opt in/out status based on their current mood.
8. If a player is counted as actively participating in an event, the duel challenge request does not automatically pop up so that duelers can’t troll in this fashion. It acts like the daily chest.
9. You can’t send challenge requests to players who have blocked you (it acts like that player has opted out of challenges).That’s a lot of work for what only a minority of players would use in the long term.
Well first of, people not wanting another objective inside SPvP was far later, very far later. There was no one not liking the SPvP at first, the objective as fine. It was first a few years later people began to ask for Deathmatches in SPvP, because they did find the maps and game mode very repetitive. This happened after people “broke” the game and created guilds to fight other guilds from other servers that they were not meant to be able to, only way done was either already knowing the enemy in WvW was blocking, writing name, unblock and then whisper.
And this is where the main event comes in “To Much Resources Needed, Not Worth It” arguments.
There have already been several responses to this, we do not know how much resources is needed, but a lot of people guess that it would not be that much. We have several places witnessed that they can change you from normal green to foe, both in GH, this new map in Heart of the Mists, and even Living World Events like https://youtu.be/pch59ybwHa8?t=826
Coming to a conclusion by your own that it would require to much resources, is like me saying that it is already there, they just do not decide to activate it for 2 players to fight…..We simply do not know, and creating reason behind something you really have 0 idea about is literally not an argument of why not, or why they should do it, it is a theory. if you had just some idea, a hint of an idea how much time is required, then I would start to favor your thoughts, but this is just a moot argument that is unnecessary to ever take up for any reason or any other thread…..literally ever. Using the I can honestly not take this lightly, using that argument should never be a thing, it is literally like saying that you do not know if it takes a day, week or month, but you would rather want them not to use any time on small things ever, no matter how much they benefit the people, afk people etc, because you want that thing that takes years to make.
seems very restrictive, as in any other game I have personally ever played with a duel system………Any of your request does simply not happen, seems as if you are confusing duels with open world PvP.
I still honestly do not get that mindset. It is like you are differentiating the game between PvP´ers and PvE´ers. As if PvE’ers never went to wvw or pvp and WvW´ers/pvpers never went to PvE content…which is a weird to position an argument. Even if I would were to accept this as a valid argument as of why dueling should not be in PvE, I would still be able to turn it around and say that PvE is still in those 2 PvP games, and in most if not all cases, killing a PvE mob in WvW or SPvP always count for more than killing a player. So adding a duel, which is considerably small and doesnt reward anything in PvE, should be a given right.
I am not saying this should ever become a valid argument as of why duel should be implemented, I am just presenting an answer if you truly believe that PvE and PvP players are like 2 different worlds where as each get a bit from the devs each time, and that we should take the whole “if you are in pvp you pvp and if in pve, you pve” argument seriously, instead of putting up the argument in a fair way.
I think you are forgetting all the PVErs who repeatedly asked for WVW, to be excluded from map completion because they didn’t want to go there, it was enough people in agreement that ANET eventually did it, so yes in this game there is a large enough separation of the two.
I remember that. (I did the map completion in wvw before they changed that). The main reason that got changed, was not because they did not want to enter wvw to complete it. But because it was for some servers impossible to actually complete it, since you need for example to enter another persons Garri, which was almost impossible at that given time. Now it seems a lot easiere since the commanders do use stacking, healing, and have ways to defend themselves with defending sieges. But still, People have explicitly mentioned that they have for weeks tried to get it, but could simply not get the vista from all 4 maps on all the keeps.
<Edit> I personally do not know if there were WvW players or guilds only for wvw at that given time, since I do not remember it. But the map chat was certainly always filled with “it is to hard to get” from both PvE and PvP players…..of cause at that given time I dont think any of the players was only standing still on 1 game mode. <Edit>(edited by zengara.8301)
If you want to duel, you an Go to the Guild Arena and fight.
You can go to an sPvP map and fight
You an go to a WvW map and fight.
People who want to fight other players can use these options.
The last thing PvE players need is a bunch of people with over inflated egos challenging everyone that does not agree with them to a duel.
On top of that, the last thing PvE maps need is the endless salty crying of wanna be pvp’ers.
I still honestly do not get that mindset. It is like you are differentiating the game between PvP´ers and PvE´ers. As if PvE’ers never went to wvw or pvp and WvW´ers/pvpers never went to PvE content…which is a weird to position an argument. Even if I would were to accept this as a valid argument as of why dueling should not be in PvE, I would still be able to turn it around and say that PvE is still in those 2 PvP games, and in most if not all cases, killing a PvE mob in WvW or SPvP always count for more than killing a player. So adding a duel, which is considerably small and doesnt reward anything in PvE, should be a given right.
I am not saying this should ever become a valid argument as of why duel should be implemented, I am just presenting an answer if you truly believe that PvE and PvP players are like 2 different worlds where as each get a bit from the devs each time, and that we should take the whole “if you are in pvp you pvp and if in pve, you pve” argument seriously, instead of putting up the argument in a fair way.
Ive seen the link Inculpatus Cedo. Most of the comments seems rather inadequate. Some circle around a childish reasoning and misuse of the forms of appeal by either using pathos, and directing the arguement towards an idea that this game somehow would become more agressive by letting people use duel instead of getting into heart of the mist. Or simply use a very childish comparison, where as 1 breaks the game while the other one adds to the game.
The only real answer I can get behind, between all these answers, seems to be that there are simply no way to balance the different classes. Guard>Necro>Ele>Guard
and A-Net might not want to pursue duels or deathmatches because of this idea.Though I gotta admit that I did learn something, seems like that the people are getting more and more scared of the social aspects of the game. As if every small bit of change, could be huge-, since people will be able to duel and that will be the most scary thing ever since they get more aggressive and suddenly spam duel to everyone-.
It is very representing of the current system world wide, specially how the American president got elected. It is very scary how affected people are by every 0,0001% change. though that is beside the point of this thread
I can understand that the devs cant afford changing every balance for a duel or matchmaking system, and very glad I got that answerSo here we have a proponent of dueling calling other people’s opinion’s childisih I’m sure I’m not the only one who sees the irony.
In callling my opnion childish, you are in sense proving my point. This is precisely the kind of thing that I’m against I’m not calling you childish for wanting to duel. However, the fact that you think this is somehow okay, to publicly call someone else’s opinion childish… well, it speaks volumes.
I’m not a kid. I’m a 55 year old guy. In WoW, I had kids pestering me to duel and frankly I found it obnoxios. And when you say no or walk away, I had them jumping around me, talking in map chat. Yeah Goldshire was a lot of fun.
It wouldn’t make or break the game for me. It would simply annoy me. And why would I want to be annoyed?
Why am I chldish for having an opinion after having an experience?
If anything people who have bad experiences with something who don’t want it are people who have a right to an opinion. Other people don’t have the right to ridicule that opinion
Sorry to say, but you are touching on a subject and adding a perspective to the argument that was never there. I have explained this countless of times, but I did not target anyone by this comment, it was intended to some of the posts that I read in the link that was provided to me, where people did create rather weird scenarios that I have never heard about, or mentioning that it is only fair, if we put massive bosses and roam around SPvP, while there are already minions “bosses” in SPvP that do normaly count for a major portion of the points you can get.
I repeat, I did not call any particular person(s) argument childish, and I have not mentioned who it might be, and I have not made a direct corelation between my comment and the comment from the link as mentioned. Nobody will be able to state out whom ive not agreed with.Now to your perspective of the matter:
I have never seen or heard about that in my entire gaming period, it is sad to hear that this happened to you in WoW. But I do not see this happening in Gw2, there is simply no open world PvP, I get that it is annoying if someone once have done that to you, but I really cant see it happening again.
And sorry to say, but if you are making a statement that I should not call other childish you really shouldnt call other peoples kids 2 lines later. Please do restrain yourself from doing that, my comment aswell as your comment, was not targeted towards anyone, I do apologies if anyone is offended, but I did not target any particular personYou having not heard about something is completely irrelevant to my opinion and experience. Having had bad experience in past games with dueling, as I have nothing to prove to anyone in a video game, I don’t want to see it in this game.
You can theorize it wouldn’t happen here. You can make all sorts of suggestions about how it might not happen, how it can be prevented from happening, which doesn’t mean I want devs to spend the time to try.
I have no interest in dueling (and if I did I’d simply use the guild arena), therefore I have no interest in see the devs waste developer time on something I have no interest in.
I don’t feel it would add to the game. I don’t feel it would attract the players I’d want to play with.
Therefore I am against addiing it to the game.
If I thought it would improve the game, I’d be for it. But seeing as I don’t, why would I support it?
Well based on map chat in the game, there is a lot of people who would really like it (I do encourage you to ask map chat, if you get the chance, to form an opinion based on other players thoughts) Though this thought of mine, only hold value if you really do not care if it is being implemented or not, and do not want developers spending time on it mainly because you do not believe it adds to the game.
There is a lot of people who would actually like to duel, but do not want to enter an instance, or go through heart of the mist, to find a map where people might 1v1 inside another map.
And yesteday, a WvW commander that are on twitch, did showcase 1v1 with the new classes, around 800 viewers at all times (MightyTeapot) where people was very interested and cheered etc. Let me be very clear, I am not saying 1v1 will add any form of esports ideology into the game, I am just saying that would make things simple and fun.
I made this post to a similar thread…
You want dueling? Here’s how I believe it should work.
1. No form of dueling requests should be announcable in map chat.
2. There should be an option to block dueling requests, set to “off” by default. If a dueling request is sent to a person who has it turned off, whispering and mail should be disabled between the two parties for ten minutes.
3. If a duel is sent and accepted, both participants should be immediately moved to a dueling instance where they can duke it out in private.
4. At the conclusion of said duel, both participants should be returned to the exact location they started from.
5. An option should be added where persons wishing to do so may observe but not participate in an active duel (similar to spectating in PvP matches.)
6. Dueling arenas should be set up in each city.
I’ve said it before. Dueling should not be taking place in an environment that is supposed to actively encourage cooperation.
I have noticed a hard restriction on space for dueling, have you noticed something in other games that do make these kind of restrictions needed for dueling? Since I do find it very, very hard to believe that anyone would get into a world boss fight and suddenly duel, since it would probably be suicide
Ive seen the link Inculpatus Cedo. Most of the comments seems rather inadequate. Some circle around a childish reasoning and misuse of the forms of appeal by either using pathos, and directing the arguement towards an idea that this game somehow would become more agressive by letting people use duel instead of getting into heart of the mist. Or simply use a very childish comparison, where as 1 breaks the game while the other one adds to the game.
The only real answer I can get behind, between all these answers, seems to be that there are simply no way to balance the different classes. Guard>Necro>Ele>Guard
and A-Net might not want to pursue duels or deathmatches because of this idea.Though I gotta admit that I did learn something, seems like that the people are getting more and more scared of the social aspects of the game. As if every small bit of change, could be huge-, since people will be able to duel and that will be the most scary thing ever since they get more aggressive and suddenly spam duel to everyone-.
It is very representing of the current system world wide, specially how the American president got elected. It is very scary how affected people are by every 0,0001% change. though that is beside the point of this thread
I can understand that the devs cant afford changing every balance for a duel or matchmaking system, and very glad I got that answerSo here we have a proponent of dueling calling other people’s opinion’s childisih I’m sure I’m not the only one who sees the irony.
In callling my opnion childish, you are in sense proving my point. This is precisely the kind of thing that I’m against I’m not calling you childish for wanting to duel. However, the fact that you think this is somehow okay, to publicly call someone else’s opinion childish… well, it speaks volumes.
I’m not a kid. I’m a 55 year old guy. In WoW, I had kids pestering me to duel and frankly I found it obnoxios. And when you say no or walk away, I had them jumping around me, talking in map chat. Yeah Goldshire was a lot of fun.
It wouldn’t make or break the game for me. It would simply annoy me. And why would I want to be annoyed?
Why am I chldish for having an opinion after having an experience?
If anything people who have bad experiences with something who don’t want it are people who have a right to an opinion. Other people don’t have the right to ridicule that opinion
Sorry to say, but you are touching on a subject and adding a perspective to the argument that was never there. I have explained this countless of times, but I did not target anyone by this comment, it was intended to some of the posts that I read in the link that was provided to me, where people did create rather weird scenarios that I have never heard about, or mentioning that it is only fair, if we put massive bosses and roam around SPvP, while there are already minions “bosses” in SPvP that do normaly count for a major portion of the points you can get.
I repeat, I did not call any particular person(s) argument childish, and I have not mentioned who it might be, and I have not made a direct corelation between my comment and the comment from the link as mentioned. Nobody will be able to state out whom ive not agreed with.
Now to your perspective of the matter:
I have never seen or heard about that in my entire gaming period, it is sad to hear that this happened to you in WoW. But I do not see this happening in Gw2, there is simply no open world PvP, I get that it is annoying if someone once have done that to you, but I really cant see it happening again.
And sorry to say, but if you are making a statement that I should not call other childish you really shouldnt call other peoples kids 2 lines later. Please do restrain yourself from doing that, my comment aswell as your comment, was not targeted towards anyone, I do apologies if anyone is offended, but I did not target any particular person
In short: We have simply different ideologies of how the forums should be used.
I stated my feeling about the general consensus and I stated my preference about where I think devs should prioritize; you stated yours. I’m not sure how that has anything to do with forum ideology.
I have nothing against people stating opinions, unless they are making attacks on the individual. Calling a point of view “childish” isn’t helpful to discussion.
well I never targeted anyone by calling anyone childish as previously mentioned. I called some of the arguments in another post “childish” way of comparing, simply because they do not follow the college rule of comparing (like saying that it would be like if we put tequatle in a SPvP match). In short, not comparable if 1 breaks the game while the other adds to it. If you did find my comment about that subject offensive in anway, then im very sorry
The link is about open world PvP, as in zones you gank other peoples in, not dueling matches, where we have already GH, and seen in living world people in open world changed to be our opponents because they wore the white mantle clothes ( I believe it was in head of the snake?), and based on GH that is located in a PvE map, it is not totally
sorry, but you can really never use links like that since HoT and meta events……or mounts……Beside this link being from 2012 (which is non usable…ever from now on, not in school or any other place, unless if article explained something older, like the pyramides) then you can without a doubt find quotes about not making gear hard to craft/buy or find….we got vipers/minstreal that are very needed. You can of cause also find the “no mount” article etc….I could go on, but you get the ideaFrom what i can tell from researching and both playing through head of the snake, you dont get marked as an enemy for other players and cant be killed by them. In the silverwastes area, when first introduced there was a bandit champion you could give 2 gold to to get a boon that would allow safe passage through bandit territory(still there too) however, it no longer marks you as enemy to other players(and you couldnt fight back anyways), after quite a lot of negative feedback from players on the entire idea.
found it
https://youtu.be/pch59ybwHa8?t=825
.[/quote]
claiming it is an ‘added delight’ when the entirety of open world content is literally designed around it is, to be frank, very silly. this manifesto, this philosophy is the entire reason GW2 does a lot of the things it does, including giant all-players-included events, personal loot, no mob tagging, and so on. referring to it as an ‘added delight’ does not detract from its importance, or the fact that open-world PvE content has that philosophy at its core.
my apologies if my post came off as condescending, i was going based on your claim that you were unable to make sense of my post. i felt that the best way to address the situation was to explain myself more clearly and make it clear that i am willing to continue rephrasing/rewording if what i posted was still too complicated to understand.
considering the scenario that was mentioned earlier (wanting to duel someone to test something and having to jump through hoops to get a private ‘duel’ with them), i believe a better solution would be to simply expand and improve on the currently in-place PvP areas to allow such a thing. implementing the system in open world PvE, while slightly more convenient than just teleporting to LA and walking a few feet to HotM, would make far less sense thematically.
a duel system would be perfectly fine if it was contained within PvP-centric areas. my argument is basically that it would be unnecessary to enable it in open-world PvE areas. granted, they have already said they have no interest, but hypothetically speaking if they did look into implementing it, it would make no sense to enable it everywhere.
i have no concern with it being enabled in towns or cities, either. what makes no sense is implementing it in open-world PvE areas (think VB, or Caledon). i feel that we may be misunderstanding each other a bit here?[/quote]
Ok, seems like you kinda slightly went over my comment quiet quick, and did not talk about the link. But let me try a different approach. Open world content is not being happy to meet other people. It is not a subjective fact where “I fell like” Open world content means Free Roaming, no matter how much “meaning of open world content” you search on google, this fact will always remain the number 1 priority.
I can also prove it to you,
Neverwinter is a instance based mmo, you are happy to see people
BDO is an open world mmo, you are not happy to see people.
Dragon Nest, instance based mmo,
wow open world
etc…
The idea is simple, “being happy to see others” as explained in my previous post, was not the core reason for open world content, there are as explained different quests done alone (in this game alone).
And in general, across all games, you can simply remove being happy to see another player at anytime, and it would still be an open world, you can not remove free roaming. But again, this have nothing to do with my post, does not add to it, nor remove from the argument, just do not like to see words being swung around and changed the actual meaning of the word.
Well again, I can not see why Duel can not happen in Caledon or VB, it is not like people would instantly ask to duel you, and new players will find it fun to duel other new players. What people seem to be think about this, is quiet different. They create scenarios that never happen in other games, never have I ever seen any lvl 90 go back to the lvl 1 area and asked for dueling them, it is simply what is called a waste of time, I could honestly understand it, if another game did show some problems in anyway or form with asking for duel.
But people wont spam dueling requests, nor have they ever in any other games. Dueling have never been to aggravate others, open world PvP have, and there is where the big split between having fun, and literally hating another player comes from. Ganking a low geared player and forcing them to re-spawn is 1 thing, clicking “send duel request” simply is another in every way, you can not be insulting another player and then be all like “DUEL ME”, that just never happens in any other game. But it very much seems like people are correlating these 2 things, as if being the same in anyway, which is simply very strange to me.
Since there are multiple threads on the subject, I think I’ll re-post this:
“The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible. World versus world is our version of open world PvP, and while it isn’t ‘true’ open world PvP for more PvP purists, it does contain many of the elements that make world PvP so exciting. Hopefully it will mostly satisfy people that want open world PvP.” — Mike Ferguson
Bold part for emphasis. It doesn’t matter how many people want it or how many people would use it or like it. It would take too much work to make it work, so it’s not worth it.
Link:
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/TemperHoof/072012/23486_Guild-Wars-2-Redefines-Open-World-PVPIt’s the design that doesn’t support it. It’s not something they can “add”.
The link is about open world PvP, as in zones you gank other peoples in, not dueling matches, where we have already GH, and seen in living world people in open world changed to be our opponents because they wore the white mantle clothes ( I believe it was in head of the snake?), and based on GH that is located in a PvE map, it is not totally
sorry, but you can really never use links like that since HoT and meta events……or mounts……Beside this link being from 2012 (which is non usable…ever from now on, not in school or any other place, unless if article explained something older, like the pyramides) then you can without a doubt find quotes about not making gear hard to craft/buy or find….we got vipers/minstreal that are very needed. You can of cause also find the “no mount” article etc….I could go on, but you get the idea
the goal of open-world content is, all in all, to make you excited to see another player, to make you happy that someone else showed up. adding a dueling system does not contribute to this goal in any way and debatably goes against it by introducing an entirely opposite element to the pre-existing content.
i, personally, do not think dueling in and of itself would ‘ruin’ open world content, no — i see it as simply a step in the entirely wrong direction. catering to players who want to experience their specific flavor of content outside of its intended area would just muddle the tone of the experience itself. nobody goes into raids expecting to kill enemy players, or sPvP expecting to go exploring. it just makes no sense to implement it when it fails to contribute to the overarching goal or surrounding content in any way.is it a huge problem if it gets added? not really.
does it make sense for it to exist in open-world PvE? definitely not.You begin your arguement with a selfproclaimed reasoning for open world content. I agree that being happy to see another player is a part of the open world content…while attacking a boss, or doing certain hearts…..in some regards. But saying that it is the main reason, is quiet wrong.
actually, you can find this kind of reasoning all over the place. here is an example, right under the “It’s time to make MMORPGs more social” section, you get this gem:
“MMOs are social games. So why do they sometimes seem to work so hard to punish you for playing with other players? If I’m out hunting and another player walks by, shouldn’t I welcome his help, rather than worrying that he’s going to steal my kills or consume all the mobs I wanted to kill? Or if I want to play with someone, shouldn’t we naturally have the same goals and objectives, rather than discovering that we’re in the same area but working on a different set of quests?”
the underlying philosophy here is, as i said, one of cooperation with your peers. dueling others in 1v1 combat out in the open world does not contribute to this philosophy in any way.
I am sorry to say this, but I have written around 5 lines now, and this whole comment simply seems out of line on so many things, that I honestly do not know how to….sorry to say….but take this comment seriously. But the goal to open world content never really had been about being happy to meet other players, in any mmorpg, Gw2 did make a statement that they want to pursue the idea of making defeating a minion a shared experience……but yeah I will just stop here…because wow xD
if you do not understand it, i can take a moment to rephrase some of it. my apologies if it was too complex.
basically, the issue with adding dueling to the open world is not that it would hurt people. the issue is that it is completely unnecessary. it adds nothing of value to the open world. dueling, as a system, does not make sense in the context of open world PvE content.
my example from before should still be easy to understand — players do not go into sPvP to explore. players go into sPvP to do PvP. while the developers could add an exploration factor to sPvP, and it would be nice for those who are interested, it would make no sense to have that freedom to explore in sPvP because the sPvP game mode is not built around the idea of exploration.
i hope this is easier to understand. please let me know if any of it is confusing still, i will do my best to reword it.
Well first off:
“We think of GW2 as the first MMO that actually has a cooperative PvE experience. When I’m out hunting and suddenly there’s a huge explosion over the next hill – the ground is shaking and smoke is pouring into the sky – I’m going to want to investigate, and most other players in the area will too. Or if the sky darkens on a sunny day, and I look up and see a dragon circling overhead preparing to attack, I know I’d better fight or flee, and everyone around me knows that too.
With traditional MMOs you can choose to solo or you can find a good guild or party to play with. With GW2 there’s a third option too: "
(https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/ , line 62:)
Again the meaning behind Open World Content, is not only for being happy to meet other people. It is not the deciding factor, it is an added feature. Even though you are very much being condesending, you must start to realize that it is not the perpuse of open world content, it is an added delight for Gw2 (an other mmorpgs since it is 5 years old)
Second comment: if you are not interested in it, is it like a few comments above, that since it is not a major issue for you, and I can do it by going through a few load screens, A-Net should not touch it since it might or might not require resources? You are not direct with your comment there
And players do not stand idle in Lions Arch to PvE, they stay idle because they dont want to PvE but dont want to get into SPvP either. I get your premise, but that idea only holds true when everyone is being 100% efficient around every part of the game, the idea of people dont want to wvw and just idle on LA is quiet normal, which means that you cant really split the game modes up like that. It is not just 2 totally different game modes, in WvW PvE gear still holds, players from WvW and PvE do still idle in LA or any other place, like divinities reach or rata sum, you still see a massive amount of players from every aspect of the game there. And again, I am not saying that PvP should be an open world thing, all I am saying is that dueling in the game would be pretty great, nothing more.
The idea of dueling has been proposed a number of times. Often, posters have explained why they like dueling in games. Sometimes, they’ve even tried to work with people who disagree, folks who see it as a distraction to the core game, folks who’d rather see ANet work on stuff, and folks who see it as undermining a core ‘feature’ of the game: cooperative PvE.
That doesn’t appear to be the case here. Instead of having a conversation, one poster can’t seem to offer more than, “the criticisms are inadequate” or “childish” and that people are against it because they are “scared.” There’s no way to have a conversation when someone is that unwilling to consider other points of view.
I’ll make one attempt to make my view clear: devs have limited resources; they can only work on some of the great ideas we suggest. Based on threads like this, it seems the dueling is incredibly popular among a tiny fraction of the population, rejected out of hand by a large fraction, and a majority probably don’t care if it’s in GW2 or not. I think there are so many other ideas that the majority would love to see or even just that the fraction of “yes, please” is larger than the fraction of “over my defeated character.”
Given that I’ve been wrong about such things before (e.g. I thought raids would be bad for the game; turns out they’ve been, on balance, great), I’m keeping an open mind about how ANet would implement something like dueling; it might be good.
Or in brief, it’s not at the top of the list for best cost:benefit for the community as a whole. Seems like a good feature for other games, but probably not GW2.
I have responded quiet a few comments, only one of these comments have I written that others might be childish, and it was meant for another source link that I got were people did very much use “out of the blue comments” to come with suggestions as to why dueling shouldnt be an option. In other words, I really did not target any particular person with being childish in anyway
And I have previously answered that I simply can not respond to people who believe that the devs should not be working on anything else, or that they should be denying any small aspects of improvements of the game, because they got far less resources now, so they can only work on the absolute most important cases.
I dont know, but I got a good guess that nobody knows how much resources they do have, but either way, it is a very derivitive figure, since this whole forum is about what they should be implementing, what people would like in the game, like if someone asked for a sword that cost 500000 gold but could insta kill anyone I would say no (very…very extreme example, but you get the idea) rather than balancing their time, that nobody knows how to balance. Like implementing a duel system could take a week or a year, honestly nobody knows, but I would personally very much like it in the game.
And let me make it clear from your previous message, you do share an ideology with some people, but most seems to be against it, because they do not want “PvE and PvP shared” which I can not understand, since it is dueling and not open world PvP (ganking) that I want, which for me personally is very different since you ask for fighting, and it does not force anyone to do so….and more etc, ive written this a couple of times so getting kinda repetitive, but your view seems very much to be “They dont have resources, so they should only work on most important cases” Which is fine, but I dont think I would use the forums like that, if there is something I want in the game, I would like the population to know of it.
In short: We have simply different ideologies of how the forums should be used.
And anet has a different ideology on how pve zones should be used…
So… what are your wvw and spvp ranks?
I wrote that in page 1.
3rd message after your respond
The idea of dueling has been proposed a number of times. Often, posters have explained why they like dueling in games. Sometimes, they’ve even tried to work with people who disagree, folks who see it as a distraction to the core game, folks who’d rather see ANet work on stuff, and folks who see it as undermining a core ‘feature’ of the game: cooperative PvE.
That doesn’t appear to be the case here. Instead of having a conversation, one poster can’t seem to offer more than, “the criticisms are inadequate” or “childish” and that people are against it because they are “scared.” There’s no way to have a conversation when someone is that unwilling to consider other points of view.
I’ll make one attempt to make my view clear: devs have limited resources; they can only work on some of the great ideas we suggest. Based on threads like this, it seems the dueling is incredibly popular among a tiny fraction of the population, rejected out of hand by a large fraction, and a majority probably don’t care if it’s in GW2 or not. I think there are so many other ideas that the majority would love to see or even just that the fraction of “yes, please” is larger than the fraction of “over my defeated character.”
Given that I’ve been wrong about such things before (e.g. I thought raids would be bad for the game; turns out they’ve been, on balance, great), I’m keeping an open mind about how ANet would implement something like dueling; it might be good.
Or in brief, it’s not at the top of the list for best cost:benefit for the community as a whole. Seems like a good feature for other games, but probably not GW2.
I have responded quiet a few comments, only one of these comments have I written that others might be childish, and it was meant for another source link that I got were people did very much use “out of the blue comments” to come with suggestions as to why dueling shouldnt be an option. In other words, I really did not target any particular person with being childish in anyway
And I have previously answered that I simply can not respond to people who believe that the devs should not be working on anything else, or that they should be denying any small aspects of improvements of the game, because they got far less resources now, so they can only work on the absolute most important cases.
I dont know, but I got a good guess that nobody knows how much resources they do have, but either way, it is a very derivitive figure, since this whole forum is about what they should be implementing, what people would like in the game, like if someone asked for a sword that cost 500000 gold but could insta kill anyone I would say no (very…very extreme example, but you get the idea) rather than balancing their time, that nobody knows how to balance. Like implementing a duel system could take a week or a year, honestly nobody knows, but I would personally very much like it in the game.
And let me make it clear from your previous message, you do share an ideology with some people, but most seems to be against it, because they do not want “PvE and PvP shared” which I can not understand, since it is dueling and not open world PvP (ganking) that I want, which for me personally is very different since you ask for fighting, and it does not force anyone to do so….and more etc, ive written this a couple of times so getting kinda repetitive, but your view seems very much to be “They dont have resources, so they should only work on most important cases” Which is fine, but I dont think I would use the forums like that, if there is something I want in the game, I would like the population to know of it.
In short: We have simply different ideologies of how the forums should be used.
ok, what if sPvP now all of a sudden get’s a legendary monster killing ppl, would you love that too?
I wrote this previously:
“Ive seen the link Inculpatus Cedo. Most of the comments seems rather inadequate. Some circle around a childish reasoning and misuse of the forms of appeal by either using pathos, and directing the arguement towards an idea that this game somehow would become more agressive by letting people use duel instead of getting into heart of the mist. Or simply use a very childish comparison, where as 1 breaks the game while the other one adds to the game.”
Edited:
And tbh….In my perspective, saying this really have nothing to add or take from the argument because it makes no sense to me that I wouldn’t be able to duel someone just because it is not in “PvP zone”
But……SPvP do have monsters, that I have in fact died from….mainly in the beginning or as a thief….but stillactually it does, adding PvP in PvE has the same effect as adding PvE in PvP.
we can just turn it all around, have zergs of monsters in PvP with veteran, elite and champion monsters walking around in PvP maps killing any and all players in their path.what i see is the pathetic childish behavior to force PvP in PvE, there are already 2 modes specifically made for PvP yet there is a need to ruin the only single mode made for PvE with yet another PvP mode.
like others have said, there are plenty of modes allowing you to PvP each other to death, we PvE-only players want nothing to do with it.seriously, you act as if PvP is the one thing that is fun, if you like PvP so much play games made for PvP but don’t ruin others fun by forcing yours.
Again, I simply do not get why differentiating the 2 game modes like that is a necessity, it is not like I force anything on you in anyway if you read my previous messages. And putting zergs of minions in SPvP would indeed break the game. But you can of cause not use the arguement of, putting minions in SPvP to add a massive amount of score to the other party who kills this boss minion….because it is already there.
You make it sound as if this will change PvE? See, I can simply not get behind this ideology, I mean. It will not change PvE at all, in the slightest sense, I honestly do not know to explain this further, there are no possible itsy bit pixel in this PvE world that would be inherently changed at all by putting dueling into the game. If there is, I would honestly like a real explanation, not that some random dude was about to go to Silver Waste with his group but find a random person he would like to fight because he said Silver Waste was boring (even though blocking and leaving would probably be the more…go to explanation of how that story would have evolved)
In conclusion, please do explain how this would change the PvE world or force anyone to PvP……….and I could do with less of “your childish” comments.
“I reread that, and sounded like I called you childish. But I meant, where you wrote “your childish”, I would like it if you stopped using that word so directly to me"
(edited by zengara.8301)
the goal of open-world content is, all in all, to make you excited to see another player, to make you happy that someone else showed up. adding a dueling system does not contribute to this goal in any way and debatably goes against it by introducing an entirely opposite element to the pre-existing content.
i, personally, do not think dueling in and of itself would ‘ruin’ open world content, no — i see it as simply a step in the entirely wrong direction. catering to players who want to experience their specific flavor of content outside of its intended area would just muddle the tone of the experience itself. nobody goes into raids expecting to kill enemy players, or sPvP expecting to go exploring. it just makes no sense to implement it when it fails to contribute to the overarching goal or surrounding content in any way.is it a huge problem if it gets added? not really.
does it make sense for it to exist in open-world PvE? definitely not.You begin your arguement with a selfproclaimed reasoning for open world content. I agree that being happy to see another player is a part of the open world content…while attacking a boss, or doing certain hearts…..in some regards. But saying that it is the main reason, is quiet wrong. Beside the ideology of this game having a lot of tasks that do not depend on any other player….like jumping puzzle, random hearts that require you to deliver xx things……or transforming you and stuff……the whole MMORPG genre did not make this a reason in anyway. I am sorry to say this, but I have written around 5 lines now, and this whole comment simply seems out of line on so many things, that I honestly do not know how to….sorry to say….but take this comment seriously. But the goal to open world content never really had been about being happy to meet other players, in any mmorpg, Gw2 did make a statement that they want to pursue the idea of making defeating a minion a shared experience……but yeah I will just stop here…because wow xD
You claimed it was self-proclaimed, and a comment that can not be taken seriously. I posted that it was ArenaNet’s claim and core game tenet, and should be taken quite seriously. That’s what it has to do with this thread.
Again, sorry but I wrote
“But the goal to open world content never really had been about being happy to meet other players, in any mmorpg, Gw2 did make a statement that they want to pursue the idea of making defeating a minion a shared experience”
It is a statement that they have wanted to be part of the experience, yes. But the expression “Open World Content” does not mean, being happy to see another player. Sorry if I offended anyone along the way
…
So with all those mechanics available, and being the way they are….. there is very little incentive for an open world dueling system. And in pretty much every case were you’d want to request a duel with a player, all it would take is engaging in conversation. And that right there is where a Prompted Duel notice can be a nuance (can be unsolicited), on top of being difficult to find willing participants given the current play context.
There are a few more edge cases I didn’t cover… but those are either rare, or runs counter to the intended game design, and should be addressed directly; rather then have Dueling tacked on to either distract from it, or enable something that should be a fully realized game mechanic/encounter.
With all that said…. I would actually like to see public arena fights incorporated into full blown dynamic event or regional meta, if for no other reason then to present a more casual PvP situation in the spirit of friendly competition (and contribution toward group meta rewards). Theres no denying that sPvP is way too intense, and taken far too seriously for most people to enjoy.
But if you want an example of how this can work in the spirit of PvE mode.
Single or Dual tournament, with qualifying rounds against AI mobs. Its of critical importance that the early fights be against AI contenders, as it serves as a warm up and gives time to let a salty attitude calm down. Special attention also has to be paid to what types of rewards are given, since you don’t want players fixing fights to farm them. The ladder also has to be relatively short (~ 5 rounds for the PvP portion), and cycle fast enough so player aren’t invested more then hour for the bulk of the meta. Given the casual atmosphere, sloppy builds will be common, but does encourage playing with traits for better performance (which is a good thing).
For reward structure, I would say rewards would have to be normalized to purposely favor rounds played for those who want to “farm” rewards, but offer minor bonus for winning the round (either bonus coin, or +1 to the normal item reward). For Tournament winners, that bonus is doubled at the last round.
Now if they really wanted to go all out, you design a World Boss event to attach to the end of the meta. A 3-lane gauntlet supported by siege elements. Now for the gimmick…. players who advanced to the last 2 rounds of the Tournament are given a buff that activates during the Boss event. 2nd Rank gain Veteran status, increasing HP and Damage scaling. Finals runner up Rank gains Elite status, increasing HP and damage scaling plus access to a targeted heavy CC action skill. Finals Winners gain Champ status, increasing HP and damage scaling, a defiance bar, and an AOE action skill that revives downed allies and taunts nearby enemies.
While the siege elements are there to mechanically normalize the event for Commanders to organize, the Tournament buff is a Power Play advantage (basically light siege) for the lanes those players join in. In PUG situations, this improves the overall odds of success (added DPS, and more durable)…. but in an organized map, those players can be leveraged for speed runs or making boss meta achievements easier for the group.
If you think about it…. its not too far off the Armor challenges in the Octovine meta. The lack of Golden armor doesn’t prevent the meta from succeeding, but it does make things a little easier.
soo…..I mean……..as I understood it, you mean that developers creating a duel would be unessecary time consument, you would instead see something else. Like a map filled with small tournaments where it begins with fighting mobs and then people would improve?
Please do correct me if wrong, but sounds like you are saying: “Duels? naah kitten that, to ez and waste of time…..lets make a map filled with only duels where people fight each other all the time” xD
If you are, I am definitely not against the idea, but this thread is kinda about duel implemented to the game, and not what would be better to implement xD
[/quote]
Guildwars is a very different game, with a much different set of design philosophies that guide. Most MMOs design based on “tropes” popularized by either EQ, WoW, or UO, thinking mass market appeal will make up for otherwise lazy, or unimaginative design. Guildwars on the other hand has a tradition of subverting those tropes, or at least distilling the most useful elements out of a design, and putting it to better use.
…[/quote]
Since this is a very long message, I have decided to responding line by line and also cut it short since only 600 characters can be used:
It is very true that in 2012 Gw2 was very innovative based on the ideology of letting people fight the same monsters, explore and also they very smooth way of progressing, but it is currently 2017 and a lot of the games, also some of those you mentioned, did go towards what Gw already provided, while Gw2 have gone back to the ideology of “chasing a carrot” there is no denying that Gw2 have made these meta due to the fact that they need people to grind, repeat the same content over and over. So even though they have been very innovating and different, the game does seem to blend more and more in with the rest of the genre games, based on gear that is hard to get (not talking about ascended that does give you 10% increase in dmg, but viper, minstreal etc that will take people at least a month to complete).
I have also been in a lot of MMORPG’s that do have dueling as an option, in most cases, all the people are simply testing their gear/build for fun, or seeing someone very strong and wanting to see if they can beat that person, etc without going into an official fight, or going to wvw/battlegrounds to find a random person that might or might not be alone.
I never liked the open world PvE, in most games I have played, it supports the idea of “pay to win”. Though most mmorpgs I have played seems to have been free to play. Either way, putting up a place where you can battle, is fine like in WvW, but you are not dueling, you are ganking here. You are simply jumping in and trying to charge/shoot/stealth and kill as fast as possible, or help some of your team mates. I find this as being a very annoying way to battle, since it does truly depend on gear or numbers of targets id we believe gear is same for them all. (honestly I find it a cowardly way to pvp on, it is truly just a way to gank others and nothing more)
The main downside if not being able to duel, or going to an organized map, is to leave what ever you were doing, just to test a build on this organized place. It does not truly show anything because as you wrote, people can not use all the stats that are provided in PvE. But even if they were to go to a GH, it is just way to unnecessarily complicated, specially if you could just press 2 buttons to test a friends build out, or if you see an amazing match between 2 players and you want to test the winner out.
_______________________________________________________________
I have passed through a part of your comment that just described the situation of PvE/loot etc
It’s time to make MMORPGs more social
MMOs are social games. So why do they sometimes seem to work so hard to punish you for playing with other players? If I’m out hunting and another player walks by, shouldn’t I welcome his help, rather than worrying that he’s going to steal my kills or consume all the mobs I wanted to kill? Or if I want to play with someone, shouldn’t we naturally have the same goals and objectives, rather than discovering that we’re in the same area but working on a different set of quests?
We think of GW2 as the first MMO that actually has a cooperative PvE experience.
…
Of course GW2 has great support for parties, but they just don’t feel as necessary as they do in other MMOs, because your interests are always aligned with all other nearby players anyway.
…
We even redesigned the competitive part of the game to be friendly like this.
Not really a self-proclaimed tenet of GW2.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/
Yeah exactly, as I wrote previously. It is not THE goal of open world content in any MMORPG, but it is indeed something that the Gw2 team stated that they worked on. Having an open world that lets you play with others and target a minion together without being ripped the chance of losing loot is very good, and also one of the key points of playing Gw2 in the beginning. But I gotta ask, what does this have to do with my thread?
ok, what if sPvP now all of a sudden get’s a legendary monster killing ppl, would you love that too?
I wrote this previously:
“Ive seen the link Inculpatus Cedo. Most of the comments seems rather inadequate. Some circle around a childish reasoning and misuse of the forms of appeal by either using pathos, and directing the arguement towards an idea that this game somehow would become more agressive by letting people use duel instead of getting into heart of the mist. Or simply use a very childish comparison, where as 1 breaks the game while the other one adds to the game.”
Edited:
And tbh….In my perspective, saying this really have nothing to add or take from the argument because it makes no sense to me that I wouldn’t be able to duel someone just because it is not in “PvP zone”
But……SPvP do have monsters, that I have in fact died from….mainly in the beginning or as a thief….but still
(edited by zengara.8301)
5 of my 6 level 80s were leveled exclusively in WvW and I also love the dynamic play that PvP affords, but the question of open world dueling also involves the idea of “Who would you challenge to a duel?” Usually, people like to win and won’t challenge anyone they don’t think they can beat. Also, why would you even want to duel some random person you don’t even know? Your friends and guild mates can help you practice against certain builds or classes // why the desire to involve complete strangers?
I understand the desire to duel and the annoying way people need to go about doing it currently, but I also don’t understand the desire to duel random strangers. Why? The only thing I can think of is to either prop up your own ego because you challenge someone you believe is easily beaten, or to try to get ‘revenge’ if someone wrongs you somehow in the game (even though kill stealing doesn’t exist here and almost everything is shared contribution). So, why?
Well, today a friend asked me to duel him while I was making minstrel gear in PvE. We did duel, but I had to go through several screen loadouts and some people where in spvp, it was very annoying because all we needed was 1 duel around 30 sec to test his build, but if you have been going through all that, it went up to quiet a lot of matches.
The reason behind “dueling for hate” seems more out of line for me, I can honestly not see a person asking for dueling if that person did him wrong. I can understand if you said ganked or anything along those lines of jumping a person, but to ask dueling a person you really do not like seems weird, might happen idk, but that seems like a very……very rare occasion, where the persons involved already had to have talked about builds etc.
And tbh, if they actually play vs eachother I see a bigger chance of them getting good friends, rather than keeping a boiled arguement heat
I honestly just do not get it, why are people so afraid of Dueling everywhere? What is so scary about it? It can not be the “spams of dueling” that does not happen in any other game, and even if a person asks you for a match, it wont be much different than a random person asking for a party or squad invite
And why differentiating PvE and PvP so heavily? Even if people did PvP, and you hate it, you really would not have to participate, it is basically like forcing another person not to have fun because you do not like that game mode?
After a post that I did I can see why they didn’t add personal duel. We have players probably like you and me. Where we do not have legendary armor or weapons. I think to get those you can only craft. Don’t think you can buy in the trading Post. So for people who have everything maxed and crafted the materials. We would be murdered each battle. And wouldn’t be fare. And it wouldnt matter even if we had the skill. We would probably win 1. If the person didn’t know what they are doing. But if they did…. It’s gonna be bad. What arena net did is balance everything in PvP and wvw. With duels no balancing. And it would be frustrating to the new people. So arena net left it alone to create everything to play fair. Now if they balanced duels too. Like they did for PvP then it would be cool. But don’t think it will happen.
well, your first comment seems to be noting on the gear difference..
In WvW it is PvE gear, and GH is also PvE. Which makes the whole GvG scene PvE gear and stats. I wouldnt want them to make a duel balance, it is quiet simple, people randomly duel in an open field, and there seems to be a lot who wants to be able to do that instead of going out of their way, to Heart of the mists or a GH to get into a map or the GH fighting room, for then to make a quick match that last 30 seconds and then leave again. It is just very annoying, and that makes people not want to do that, which does take away a huge part of fun in PvP
Ok, I kinda get no trading…..even though mailing is riskier
I get no mount…….well tbh I dont necessarily care if they are here or not
But why no dueling? like there is no aspect unless if in a random made up situation this is bad. I have not gotten WoW to lvl 80 so there might be some random thing idk about
But the only thing I can see that might be annoying, is if ur defeating a pve boss and random dude ask for duel………but its no different from asking for party
You can go duel in wvw, spvp, OS and guild halls.. against players who are using pvp builds and gear. Good luck!
See I dont get that logic. OS is mainly vs other servers, where you need to contact another person from another server by blocking this individual first, whisper and then unblocking. The other 2 are mainly through 1-2 loading screens, which does get you out of your current position, very inefficient, furthermore. If you are one of those who dont pvp much, but would rather wvw. Your build is probably not up to par. It is simply clunky and not smooth at all to do this, I get your logic, its not like that there is no ways I can duel. But what I dont get……
Why dont the player want to, is it really that “scary” to add dueling in open world?
Ive seen the link Inculpatus Cedo. Most of the comments seems rather inadequate. Some circle around a childish reasoning and misuse of the forms of appeal by either using pathos, and directing the arguement towards an idea that this game somehow would become more agressive by letting people use duel instead of getting into heart of the mist. Or simply use a very childish comparison, where as 1 breaks the game while the other one adds to the game.
The only real answer I can get behind, between all these answers, seems to be that there are simply no way to balance the different classes. Guard>Necro>Ele>Guard
and A-Net might not want to pursue duels or deathmatches because of this idea.Though I gotta admit that I did learn something, seems like that the people are getting more and more scared of the social aspects of the game. As if every small bit of change, could be huge-, since people will be able to duel and that will be the most scary thing ever since they get more aggressive and suddenly spam duel to everyone-.
It is very representing of the current system world wide, specially how the American president got elected. It is very scary how affected people are by every 0,0001% change. though that is beside the point of this thread
I can understand that the devs cant afford changing every balance for a duel or matchmaking system, and very glad I got that answerToo be honest from the perspective of people who PvP mainly they are aggressive players you generally have to be to PvP through the loss streak and the win streaks, or the bad players especially with all the PvE folks in sPvP this weekend, your mind sets gotta be i can win this regardless of w/e …because my god the amount of people in sPvP that just simply don’t understand the game mode is overwhelming i opted to not pvp for the weekend because of it.
Devs don’t have to balance for 1v1 WoW never did just put a disclaimer that 1v1 are for casual fighting, don’t put it into rank hell don’t give it a single reward people just want to be able to play PvP without having to worry about folk who either don’t know how to play. Or want to fight some one with out some random there or ranger ruining your duel at of no where.
Looking at you conquest.
Yeah exactly, there really shouldnt be any rewards at all, would be so awesome. And I honestly do not believe that some1 will be spamming pvp requests, places like WoW certainly do not.
Ive seen the link Inculpatus Cedo. Most of the comments seems rather inadequate. Some circle around a childish reasoning and misuse of the forms of appeal by either using pathos, and directing the arguement towards an idea that this game somehow would become more agressive by letting people use duel instead of getting into heart of the mist. Or simply use a very childish comparison, where as 1 breaks the game while the other one adds to the game.
The only real answer I can get behind, between all these answers, seems to be that there are simply no way to balance the different classes. Guard>Necro>Ele>Guard
and A-Net might not want to pursue duels or deathmatches because of this idea.
Though I gotta admit that I did learn something, seems like that the people are getting more and more scared of the social aspects of the game. As if every small bit of change, could be huge-, since people will be able to duel and that will be the most scary thing ever since they get more aggressive and suddenly spam duel to everyone-.
It is very representing of the current system world wide, specially how the American president got elected. It is very scary how affected people are by every 0,0001% change. though that is beside the point of this thread
I can understand that the devs cant afford changing every balance for a duel or matchmaking system, and very glad I got that answer
ok, never thought people actually was deliberately against it, just thought it was one of those arguments like the mounts…..“devs havent done it, so dont ask for it” kind of mentality. I have not seen any spam messages in any other game having a open world duel system.
But is people asking you for a duel, an actual concern for people?
Ok, I kinda get no trading…..even though mailing is riskier
I get no mount…….well tbh I dont necessarily care if they are here or not
But why no dueling? like there is no aspect unless if in a random made up situation this is bad. I have not gotten WoW to lvl 80 so there might be some random thing idk about
But the only thing I can see that might be annoying, is if ur defeating a pve boss and random dude ask for duel………but its no different from asking for party
Simply said:
If you want a complete story with no gaps, then buy both.
If you want a complete game with no restrictions to features, buy both.
If you don’t want to feel like a second class player, buy both.
If you want to stay competitive in PvP and WvW, buy both.
If you dont wan’t to be left behind by your friends and guild who bought it/them eventually already, buy both.What are there for good reasons, not to buy the expansions?
Unless you are poor and simply can’t afford them???
Well…There are like 1000 other things to buy, specially now in the beginning of august/September. New clothes, haircut, new friends, parties etc.
It is like most of these (Just buy it) comments, are centered around the ideology of literally having nothing else to buy or being poor enough to only buy food?
So, what I dont get……A lot of people have mentioned that even though meta events, is a carrot to a stick, other threads below this one have also repeatedly mentioned that it is a waste of time, but keeps them busy…….What I honestly, literally do not get. Why are people doing it then? What is behind the logic of doing a somewhat boring and repeatable more than once or twice?
Sorry, I just literally can not get behind or even comprehend that ideology, it literally makes no sense for me. I mean, I do like to play pvp, WvW or explore…….but if I get to bored I always shut down the game and go to the gym or over to friends….something, I can not stay on a pc knowing that I am running on a invisible treadmill, I despise that feeling so much, even back in core games day, where they let people get free try outs for HoT if they did Silverwaste……..after 10 mins in 2nd try I literally shut down pc, not even wanting to play or watch anything on it. It was like a cold disgusting feeling of control
I do of cause have some random guesses (this is not meant to hurt anyone, I just literally can not understand it):
Like people do not have anything else to do and are very bored, so having something in a game that forces you to redo it, is better than nothing.
Or maybe some people here used to play WoW and want that feeling of them being young/kid back?
I know there must be a reason, I just do not understand it at all…so any answer would be great, but please do stay transparent on this one, am I missing something or is my guess right on the money shot?
(edited by zengara.8301)
what maddoctor said, there is a possibility that A-Net will make HoT free….but based on how privileged people got last time, I guess that A-Net will not be that generous a second time.
I never played gw1 or gw2 at lunch. I started gw2 as a f2p player when hot was out after a month or so. I did level to 80 as a ranger and did all core maps and tought what a cool game it was and the expansion would make it better and so i bought it.
Hot maps felt grindy with the meta events but it felt like i was playing an mmo for the first time(better then world bosses wich i stoped doing soon after) and even rewarding. Everything i did in core maps seemed nothing but a level experience since i was alone most of times and hot maps with end fractals and raids where the only thing to keep me playing every day.
Then living world 3 story came out and bringed some maps where they killed meta events instead they add the daily hearts and this annoyed me much, but it was ok since i tought they where some filler and the expansion maps will bring back the metas like in hot. Instead the POF demo map is just a big empty map with nothing to do other then daily hearts and bountys chase. Like wtf, this expansion maps will be dead in months if they are like the living story maps. And this will happen only becuase they listen to people like you who can’t put a bit of effort in nothing and wants to play a mmo alone. So yeah i liked hot becuase of the replayability the metas offered and this expansion looks blank and kitten me that i preorder the expansion before i knew the details and kitten the people like you who made this expansion look like a gw1 copy instead of an improvement. Thx for bringing the unidentified kitten,only the worst companys implement this kind of system and thx for the simplicity and nothingness i will find in the new maps.
I understand your logic behind it, but I do not agree with it.
Your idea is that the game needs to be somewhat grindy for you to fell like there is anything to the game, Gw2 never started with this ideology, from the dungeons to the world. It was an open exploration emant for you to have fun in it, and that is what made this a 10/10 in most reviewers eyes, you had fun leveling up to 80.
Your frustration seems to come from the fact that you are a new player, and therefor did not experience the fun entailed with doing a dungeon with full lvl 25, and not 3 lvl 80 and possibly 2 people below that level, which makes it very easy to complete a dungeon, you also seem to have a different idea of this world, since in the launch people played together. I get that since we had different experience playing the game, there wont be a comparison, and I might possibly have thought the same if I played 3-4 years after launch to. But there is simply something to it, there is a huge difference from a zerg grinding (sorry to say this) but no brain movement where you are almost braindead for 1 hour straight in a timed zone that might or might not be locked. To a vast world that wants you to explore every path with at least 3-4 people around you at every time, truly helping you in every way, and not just 20+ people pressing 1 to move on.
I have played the Demo and would very much like to share my thoughts on the demo, my personal playthrough of gw2 so far, I will also make a simplified conclusion below
I have been a player since the launch of Gw2 and got into it because the open world exploration, the way that the grind was well hidden, that it did not fell likea chore but each mission was very much thought out. Each of these things, from being able to do what ever you want, as soon as you enter the game, to exploring the vast world without needing to think of “i need to kill 50 minions or else I wont get this gear” is what made me want to play this game. I am somewhat of a “delicate” player, I honestly do not waste my time to much with games that require me to do boring chores for me to have fun. It all changed somewhat with Silverwaste, I understand this transaction, it is not possible to create enough content based on the time required, so creating a map that requires repeating content is somewhat the only answer so far. But I did not enjoy it, I have played it a couple of times, but after the first time, I felt that it was useless time waste. I very much desliked that. When HoT came out I somewhat liked the maps, though the way that the content felt like I first of all needed to follow a train of people I do not share anything with was just so boring, Hero points could not be obtained without a group of people reaching a akward place where some of them who is heading there would die anyways. And the mastery system forced me to repeat content, do boring achievements to actually get a skill that would let me reach places since the place of power got a limit….I truly hated that, and after I have finished my story line, completed the dragons stand run a few times, I rarely ever got there.
But in this expansion it seems like a lot of these things have been dealt with, I do not longer need a group of 20 people to constantly run with me just to be sure I dont get 1 shot by a random minion with a bow, I can run an adventure and help people without it feeling like im in a busy market. PoF have improved that factor, which makes the game so much more enjoyable, it may look like HoT invites people to help eachother, but the true fact is that people dont help eachother, they just need eachother to not get 1 shot, and that is a very important difference. People will help you spawn if you die in PoF, in HoT unless if you openly ask, people wont really care because there are 40 other people pressing 1 at a monster. In HoT things simply feels less personal, and more like a robot.
They have made the world vibrant again, the mastery were there were a ghost, just felt better, also how he suddenly repeats himself, to assure us how a ghost really is.
The way they show us the map by creating a race was brilliant, it was a good way to open a map up, to give us ideas of where to go, and how. The missions now also simply feels more personalized again, it isnt “we need to go out to defend this place with 50 people” it is more chill, and that is truly a good way to create a map that I would enjoy playing, and not fell like some zombie that fells like I have to press whatever button.
All in all, very impressive, the game somewhat left the whole, act like a robot in a market meta map ideology, and returned to the idea of core game + Gw1, which seems like a pretty good combination, and I hope the rest of the maps also evolves on that idea
Just me, or does anyone else fell like Gw2 starting, or have already gotten pretty over complicating?
This reminds me of the game “Bambozzle” in the show Friends. The idea is simple, if you are get enough into the game, like use a lot of time in it, the complicating factors get understandable, but the newcomers wont really want to get into a game like that, thats why they changed it to a more simple one.
Also with the whole 100 things popping up and random small chest out of nowhere, this game seems to have gotten different if you start again, and most new people that get into Gw2 from now, will usually dont like it at first “based on new youtubers and friends”……….
I mean, I get that the already existing players will not like it either if nothing is being changed, but overcomplicating some factors like the clean way of leveling up and enjoying the game to: “get this random chest and now you should do dungeons or you are missing out” ideology, simply seems wrong..
I dont know, what do you guys think? The experience have without a doubt changed based on how first people are experiencing the game, please write your thoughts
Well I see we have taken one step closer to being just another run of the mill generic MMO with the addition of mounts. So next xpac we will end up with gear progression. I mean we’ve had everything else added now that every other MMO under the sun has. Why stop now?.
Oh, so you bought into that?
Marketing guy: Tired of the old and tired carrot and stick formula? we are making a completely different MMO. It will not have mounts, or capes, or raids, or decent dungeons like those other successful mmos. No, this one… will NOT have raids, will NOT have mounts, will NOT have decent dungeons… See? there’s no carrot and stick, if there’s no carrot, and no stick!
Except, they forgot to add something to replace all that missing content with. Especially, challenging one, like raids and good dungeons.
So players started requesting the things they missed from other mmos, not necessarily because they needed them, but because they felt the game was lacking and they resorted to comparing to what they already knew.
So gw2 added more gear to grind, new dungeons that at first felt like developers trolling players, raids and now, yes, mounts. Out of all these things, i only tried the dungeons, i reluctantly equipped one or two characters with ascended, and i tried to pug the raids on launch but i didn’t have much time to play during those days.
Now, the mounts, unless they make it some superexpensive stuff, look like new fun ways to explore maps, new things to collect… if this is getting closer to other mmos, i think it’s closer in a good way. GW2 still does a lot of things better than most mmos. And still suffers in other areas. Let them keep improving.
But, a game can never be better for what it doesn’t offer. It can only be better if the content if offers is good.
First of all, you are in the beginning sounding like a person who are not talking about buying a game, but some sort of lifestyle. Which is fine, I do not play that much anymore exactly because the fun things that used to not require time to actually play, now does. But believing that “it is fine” to get a product just because it is the “business” way of doing things seems rather unhealthy…..I get your premise, It is basically like Putin´s ideology “everyone else is doing it from time to time…..so why not us” And you should really look into what these successful companies like Blizzard are doing….Since you do sound like the normal (5 year old comment) of them putting a rabbit you can kill 100000 times to get some random new gear…….Not to get in deep about it, but they do provide massive amount of content for each expansion based on other games like Gw2
On your second half, you do have some legit concerns. Even though the game was amazingly good based on exploration and a world that felt alive somewhat like the first multiplayer game affection in an mmo (this was 2012, so we do ofc have other standards now). It was still not enough to keep going, so the devs progressed by creating a tread mill for people to do with content that required a lot of time in the game and a lot of pre-planned time………Which is 1 solution I guess.
I get that there simply isnt enough resources to keep going with living world stories each 2 weeks like they used to, and people also burn through them to fast anyways……..But idk, would have been great if another alternative have been used, instead of going for the carrot line logic, even though I am not happy about the current decision only based on the visions A-Net had for mmorpgs as a whole, I do get it. It might be the only way mmorpgs survive in this day and age….-