Guild Wars 2

So I’ve just been sitting around thinking about the Asuran race as a whole. Overall I feel that the Asura are a rather haughty race. They’ve been known to be cruel and unforgiving towards foreign races/species as well as towards each other. They operate almost like a collection of city-states with each krewe and college doing what they deem important at the time with no real overall authority deciding what should be done. I know the Asurans have their Council, but its authority seems severely limited (that or they simply don’t care). But I wondered “What if they unified under one banner and formed a larger more cohesive group?” and that led to “What if they then decided to declare war on the others races?”

So I ask you this if the Asura created a military force would any race be able to stop them? Or would the Asuran War Machine steam roll over all of Tyria. Taking out Elder Dragons and alliances, in a 1 on 1 war was to erupt who would be victorious?

This is something i’ve been thinkibng about. This is what actually makes the Inquest so dangerous, i think. They are trying to unify everyone under one banner and they want to make all technological progress geared towrds one goal. More power.

if the Inquest was successful, i think only a unified Charr nation would be able to rival them one race vs. another race. Though i don’t think any single playable unified race would be able to take on all the other playable races working together.

MajorShock.4023:

But I wondered “What if they unified under one banner and formed a larger more cohesive group?” and that led to “What if they then decided to declare war on the others races?”

If you’ve played the infintiy ball story arc:
You'd know that based on analysis of alternative future timelines, in 3 out of 5 of the timelines, the dragons won. In 2 out of the 5 timelines the Asuran player character formed a meta krewe to rival the inquest, invented steam golem technology and conquered all of tyria (Some of which can be seen leaking out of temporal rifts in metrica and lornar's pass)

What I kinda thought of is this:
Asurans and Charr are the most powerful race, lets face it. BUT I noticed something that kinda was pricking at my mind
“If these guys are soooo good, they MUST have a massive weakness…”
Its been under our nose the whole time and we never really talk about it…
Both are fighting eachother internally. Sure, so are the other races, but i have a feeling the fighting of eachother will do these 2 races in. Sadly they could take over the world if they wanted… they are very powerful and my favorites.
I hope this was on topic >_<

Charr may very well collapse on themselves if they don’t find a strong enough leader to unite them. asura on the other hand only have one faction vying for total power. That means they have a good chance of succeeding since they really have no equal rivals. only powerful individuals and individual crewes that don’t work in concert with each other.

Asura band together to form one Alliance. Said Alliance takes over the world.

The end.

There’s another topic in the forum that comes close to this about ‘are Asura a completely evil race’. The Asura problem is that they’re all about chaos, so I doubt they’d get far with invasion plans. After conquering the first area they’d be too busy fighting over which Krewe gets to resources for their lab and then they’d get side swiped by some other army. They really only seem to care about defending their invention ideas and their labs…

Since Asura invented gates and way points it stands to reason that they’re the only race that can build them. If they disable the other waypoints and gates they could easily isolate nations from each other and take them one at a time while at the same time being able to travel much faster than any race.

They could also expect low casualty rates as they seem to use Golems as their main form of infantry.

If the Asura were to unite and declare a conquest of Tyria I have a hard time believing any of the races would be able to stand against them. Technology —-—> everything else.

Ryuujin.8236:

MajorShock.4023:

But I wondered “What if they unified under one banner and formed a larger more cohesive group?” and that led to “What if they then decided to declare war on the others races?”

If you’ve played the infintiy ball story arc:
You'd know that based on analysis of alternative future timelines, in 3 out of 5 of the timelines, the dragons won. In 2 out of the 5 timelines the Asuran player character formed a meta krewe to rival the inquest, invented steam golem technology and conquered all of tyria (Some of which can be seen leaking out of temporal rifts in metrica and lornar's pass)

Wow, I never played that story line (I did the VAL-A one) but was never really planning on making another asuran character. This has totally blown my mind lol.

Im a Charr player myself, but all my best friends are Asura, which share most world domination for Asura views. This is why I sometimes lurk around the Asura forums just to see what gets posted here versus Charr forums. Ive had this war between Charr and Asura a couple of times with them and I just wanted to contribute my views on a Asura-Charr war on this forum, already posted on Charr one:

A war between the Charr and Asura would probably end in some sort of stalemate, seeing as how neither race has the capability for a sustained offensive over such a distance. In the Asura forums they are pretty sure why they would win due to golems, gates for travel (military advantage in moving armies) etc.

I would first like to shoot down the idea that asura would just win. Asura tech is mostly based on magic which in most of their inventions results in the more notable ‘save my lab from the rampaging monsters’ events. That tech is not really battle tested in most cases. Asura mostly preferring to keep their inventions from the competition AKA other Asura which prevents mass production like Charr in weaponry.
Golems could be used against the Charr, but most share about the same size as a Charr. Resulting in fighting an enemy roughly the same size, stronger but slower (its movements less fluid and lacking battle instinct). The question is what material golems are made of? (I cant remember if arenanet said that Charr are superior in forging to the other races). This would affect the Charr’s ability to destroy them.

Gates are another argument used by people on the Asura forum, but the only Asura gate in Charr lands is in the Black Citadel. It is seperated from the city by a bridge and a gate. One of the npc’s metioned the bridge could be blown up in case of attack (and possibly the gate, he didnt say), again depending on how strong the material/magic is. Making the nearest gate Ebonhawke or the Norn city, which are both quite a distance from the lands of the Iron Legion, not to mention Blood Legion lands further north-east.
Last argument against Asura is that they are too divided at the moment. They operate in a krew which is their first and foremost loyalty when a conflict arisis, even with other Asura. The council of Asura either doesnt really care leading the Asura or doesnt have the power. It lets the Asura fight amongst themselves, seeing as how they dont consider the inquest evil while most krews have a vendetta against them for stealing research.

Now for the Charr I can be a little shorter (sorry for the long post :p). At the moment most of their forces are tied up fighting the Flame legion and the Ascalonian ghosts. Not even able to take out Ebonhawke, which although supported by Kryta shouldnt be a match for the full might of 3 combined legions.
For leadership they have the problem of 3 legions who dont want any of the other to rule them. Fighting a war against the Asura would require good co-operation but the legions take care of their own interests first.
Lastly its the distance, which is huge. Logistical issues to supply a army at Rata Sum are one of the biggest problems. Not having gates like Asura or bordering an ocean to ship supplies from everything would have to be shipped over the Shiverpeaks. For example just food would be a huge issue, seeing as Charr only eat meat. Meat will most likely spoil over such a long distance, not to mention the large amounts that Charr require. So their supply trains would need to include cattle which would also have to be fed, since every region such a train would move trough would quickly be out of fodder.

This is just my view on a Charr and Asura war. I have named the arguments I think are of the greatest importance (again I think). But others undoubtly have other arguments to contribute to such a discussion. I would apologise for any spelling mistakes as I am not a native speaker.

tl;dr A Charr-Asura war would most likely end in a stalemate in which neither side would get the upper hand. (BTW I am a Charr player myself, im all for supporting our goals for world domination, but just being realistic :p)

If there was ever a start to asura taking over I think it would be if there was a re colonization of Orr effort I believe the asura would take advantage of it and that would give them
Great strategic positioning

ShroudedKoyo.6081:

-snip-

Hey, didnt you post this on my thread on the Charr subforum?
Cool, I still agree xD

EpicFace.8096:

ShroudedKoyo.6081:

-snip-

Hey, didnt you post this on my thread on the Charr subforum?
Cool, I still agree xD

Yup. That’s what he/she posted before. And I agree. Asura could win, but have a racial paranoia about working together, while what Charr need is a leader with a Claw of Khan-Ur and they’re set to steam-roll Tyria. And the Inquest and Flame Legion need to be dealt with. We can’t have sexist losers (Flame Legion) and instinct-following idiots (Inquest) around.

For the Asura, all that it would take to domintae the world would be a leader with enough credibility to assign different krewes to different areas. Since the Asura don’t work well together and mostly focus on their lab researches, all that it’d take would be the command of said lider to say: “OK, if your krewe wants to go ahead with your research, you’ll have to extract resources from ______.”

With this, every krewe would be “given” a particular area of the world to take over, and the other races would most likely not stand a chance against Asuras when they are in small groups and fuelled by their scientific ambitions. Hundreds of thousands of humans can defeat the hundreds of thousands of Asuras because they can’t cooperate, but 5 humans can’t beat 5 asuras when they belong to the same krewe and have similar interests.

All that said, the Asura Gates and golems would make it easy for each krewe to dominate the particular area it was assigned. Much easier transport for golem reinforcements, should the need arrive, would be vital. If the lider mentioned above managed to focus a group of some krewes to the mass development og golems for a combined racial war effort, I don’t think that even the Charr would be able to defeat them. Even with all their war prowess, they would lose living soldiers, while the Asura would merely lose resources from the golems destroyed, resources that would be replenished with every conquest.

ALL HAIL THE ASURA WAR MACHINE

Let’s put it that way:
In an all out war between Charr and Asura:

Ash Legion: with a little bit of motivation, these guys can infiltrate Metrica Province and assassinate various scientists.
Iron Legion: let’s put it that way: If it’s about dismantling some big metal thingies, they are probably up to the task. The only question is whether they can do it while said metal thingie is moving. But let’s face it. They know the weak points ov miving metal parts all too well, the golems will just be utterly destroyed
Blood Legion: enough brute force and stupidity to cleave a golem in half.

On the other hand, we have:
-Golems: Only effective in large numbers, else the Charr will rip them apart
-Big magitek cannons: The Charr’s tanks will get ripped apart by the ones who don’t backfire :>

The main weakness of the Asura becomes clear, however: They don’t have anything to face the most powerful weapon system(a russian with two AA-12’s a charr with sharp claws and teeth)up close. They can hide behind their Golems and Science as much as they want, they can’t overcome this weakness.

For Asura to invade the Charr successfully becomes rather unlikely, considering Charr technology is not too shabby either. What we gotta look for is the other way round.
It all depends on how well the Asura can improve their designs. Right now, it would all blow up after eating one or 2 mortar shells. If they can improve the durability of their devices, they will be able to hold back the invading Charr forces.

Ultimately, a war between foot soldiers and tanks will lead to nothing in a straight up Asura vs Charr battle. The Asuran Technology gives them a huge edge at defending while their physique gives them a huge disadvantage on the offense. In the end, it will probably come down to a super weapon showdown. Throwing the Searing on Rata sum vs recreating the reactor incident in the black citadel or something.

Don’t forget about asuran force fields, virtually indestructible barriers which you gotta hack mostly. Asuran buildings would requiere really heavy artillery and constant fire for a pretty long time to fall

Many of experimental weapons are really dangerous, yet prototypes are made for small scale tests. Normally only inquest is not afraid to try new weapons on other races, but in case of war many krewes would be desperate enough to use their inventions for building defenses

Remember the ultimate power suit from Air Drop, one of Orr missions? Infinite teleport dealing heavy damage, power shield, rapid firing… The one we were using was still pretty new, still in testing phase. However I believe it’s possible to create much more of them in case of war. Asura wouldn’t be harmless in direct combat anymore

The main issue I have with these analysis is that although failrly accurate, they fail to incorporate WHY the Asura would want to wage war?

They’ve already got a fair number of the other races working for them. They’ve got no desire for military conquest, only scientific discovery. In the end, the Asura got everything they want and need through peaceful means. Why would they wage war just to destroy some distant nation with cat-people that can also be convinced to help them peacefully? All they need to do is hand out some minor trinkets. Whatever damage the Charr may cause with that is irrelevant because it’s highly unlikely to ever affect the Asura themselves.

ThiBash.5634:

The main issue I have with these analysis is that although failrly accurate, they fail to incorporate WHY the Asura would want to wage war?

They’ve already got a fair number of the other races working for them. They’ve got no desire for military conquest, only scientific discovery. In the end, the Asura got everything they want and need through peaceful means. Why would they wage war just to destroy some distant nation with cat-people that can also be convinced to help them peacefully? All they need to do is hand out some minor trinkets. Whatever damage the Charr may cause with that is irrelevant because it’s highly unlikely to ever affect the Asura themselves.

Well, the point when I made this thread wasn’t to say why, we the Asura, would go to war but what would happen when we did. The thought process is already beyond the point of “Why” and the war has already begun. The thread is to talk strategy and military might in a kind of “Deadliest Warrior” for GW2.

I think ThiBash makes a fair point, after all how do we know the nature of this war until we’ve asked why it started in the first place? My bet would be an Asura colonial expedition which resulted in the Charr misinterpreting the benefits of our inquisitve civilizing mission in some way and reacting violently, as they tend to do.

In this situation, a single college spearheading the expedition might find itself embroiled in a conflict beyond its capacity. At this point, it would have to appeal to other colleges, negotiating to give up certain opportunities in exchange for support. It wouldn’t really turn into total war, with someplace like Rata Sum being attacked, the best that the Charr resistance can hope for is withdrawal of Asura from their territories.

ShroudedKoyo.6081:

tl;dr A Charr-Asura war would most likely end in a stalemate in which neither side would get the upper hand. (BTW I am a Charr player myself, im all for supporting our goals for world domination, but just being realistic :p)

I’ll simplify the point / counter point argument with this:

Charr = kittens
Asura = geniuses

Geniuses > kittens

Therefore, Asura would win.

Hopefully this is obvious enough for a kitten.

One of the most obvious reasons a war could start is due to Asura comments. Asura are almost always insulting the intelligence of others. Well this might be accepted in their culture it isnt in the cultures of other races. Insulting a Charr or Norn would most likely end in a punch in the face. Imagine walking next to a big eared midget constantly calling you stupid and devaluate everything you say. How would you react to something like that? I just saw a thread started by an Asura player for being called a rabbit. If being called a rabbit is bad enough to start a thread how will people react to being called stupid (and much worse)?

Using my previous arguments on a war (mostly fractured leadership or civil war) and the current situation in Tyria I would say some offensive insult could get out of hand. If in the pact for example a Asura would insult a Charr and a fight would break out, Charr would probably side with the insulted Charr and Asura with the attacked Asura. Its not important who would win that fight but the consequences could be quite severe. Asura would be offended if they lost for they see themselves as superior, if Charr lost… Well lets put it this way, after they were driven from Ascalon by humans they held a grudge for about a 1000 years.

Haha Whiran you illustrates my argument perfectly :p and it gave me a good laugh, have my +1. If I would be hot-headed I could take offense to your post, but I dont. However I can turn that argument around easily:
Charr = giant lion
Asura = small child
Giant lion > small child
Therefore, Asura would be eaten.

ShroudedKoyo.6081:

. Asura are almost always insulting the intelligence of others. Well this might be accepted in their culture it isnt in the cultures of other races. Insulting a Charr or Norn would most likely end in a punch in the face.

There are a couple of points to make in regards to this. The first is to question the underlying assumption of pointing out the lack of intelligence of the lesser races as an insult as opposed to a valid observation.

Is a valid observation truly an insult?

The second point that comes to mind is that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent which proves the assertion of a lack of intelligence. Thus proving that any Asura making such a valid observation is correct in their observation.

However I can turn that argument around easily:
Charr = giant lion
Asura = small child
Giant lion > small child
Therefore, Asura would be eaten.

If this were true then in any environment where lions and people lived in close proximity there would be no children. But, this is not the case. So, given that, even with your faulty example, the Asura would win the war.

There is much more that is incorrect with the comparisons made (charr are not giant lions in any reality or fantasy nor are Asura small children) that it would take far too long to list.

For the sake of brevity I will leave a final rebuttal written from an Asuran point of view:

You are dumb.

:)

It depends, it is a valid point you make. Most but not all Asura state these valid observations more then once. The question is how often it is needed to state this fact. For example if you had a fat girlfriend would you keep making the valid observation she is fat? For is a valid observation truly an insult?

Also violence might not be the lack of intelligence. See the Charr personal story spoiler, although the player is smarter than his warband leader, he still has to hold a fight in a arena as part of leadership tradition. It is their culture and even Asura respond to competition with violence (inquest).

Yes but i kept it in the same spirit as your argument. Again an example, Napoleon is widely recognized as a military genius, yet the generals who fought him are mostly forgotten. So I could point out that your statement is incorrect too, for a genius doesnt always win against less intelligent people. It involves a lot of factors.

Ryuujin.8236:

MajorShock.4023:

But I wondered “What if they unified under one banner and formed a larger more cohesive group?” and that led to “What if they then decided to declare war on the others races?”

If you’ve played the infintiy ball story arc:
You'd know that based on analysis of alternative future timelines, in 3 out of 5 of the timelines, the dragons won. In 2 out of the 5 timelines the Asuran player character formed a meta krewe to rival the inquest, invented steam golem technology and conquered all of tyria (Some of which can be seen leaking out of temporal rifts in metrica and lornar's pass)

This post pretty much ends the debate, if there really was one to begin with.

Asura are the superior race. All should bow down before their blatantly superior overlords.

Zyrusticae.7245:

Ryuujin.8236:

MajorShock.4023:

But I wondered “What if they unified under one banner and formed a larger more cohesive group?” and that led to “What if they then decided to declare war on the others races?”

If you’ve played the infintiy ball story arc:
You'd know that based on analysis of alternative future timelines, in 3 out of 5 of the timelines, the dragons won. In 2 out of the 5 timelines the Asuran player character formed a meta krewe to rival the inquest, invented steam golem technology and conquered all of tyria (Some of which can be seen leaking out of temporal rifts in metrica and lornar's pass)

This post pretty much ends the debate, if there really was one to begin with.

Asura are the superior race. All should bow down before their blatantly superior overlords.

Ah a friend of mine also used this from his personal story. But simply put there is only one PC in Tyria for the personal’s story sake. So untill Arenanet tells us which race>gender>decisions character is considered canon (something they will never do since its an mmo), we dont even know if another Asura would come up with that idea.

whiran.1473:

I’ll simplify the point / counter point argument with this:

Charr = kittens
Asura = geniuses

Geniuses > kittens

Therefore, Asura would win.

Hopefully this is obvious enough for a kitten.

This is the internet / game world.

Kittens would put up a better fight then you can ever imagine.

ShroudedKoyo.6081:

One of the most obvious reasons a war could start is due to Asura comments. Asura are almost always insulting the intelligence of others.

Insults are not a reason for a full scale war.

ShroudedKoyo.6081:

One of the most obvious reasons a war could start is due to Asura comments. Asura are almost always insulting the intelligence of others. Well this might be accepted in their culture it isnt in the cultures of other races. Insulting a Charr or Norn would most likely end in a punch in the face. Imagine walking next to a big eared midget constantly calling you stupid and devaluate everything you say. How would you react to something like that? I just saw a thread started by an Asura player for being called a rabbit. If being called a rabbit is bad enough to start a thread how will people react to being called stupid (and much worse)?

Using my previous arguments on a war (mostly fractured leadership or civil war) and the current situation in Tyria I would say some offensive insult could get out of hand. If in the pact for example a Asura would insult a Charr and a fight would break out, Charr would probably side with the insulted Charr and Asura with the attacked Asura. Its not important who would win that fight but the consequences could be quite severe. Asura would be offended if they lost for they see themselves as superior, if Charr lost… Well lets put it this way, after they were driven from Ascalon by humans they held a grudge for about a 1000 years.

Haha Whiran you illustrates my argument perfectly :p and it gave me a good laugh, have my +1. If I would be hot-headed I could take offense to your post, but I dont. However I can turn that argument around easily:
Charr = giant lion
Asura = small child
Giant lion > small child
Therefore, Asura would be eaten.

I haven’t really seen an Asura calling a Charr stupid yet. Even less, calling the whole race stupid. Individuals are individuals after all.
I may have missed something but they consider the Charr to be the second most intelligent lifeform. I have seen them calling the Charr savages once or twice which, to be honest, isn’t far from the truth, and a Charr would probably laugh it off/feel only mildly insulted.

Vekthor.8914:

ShroudedKoyo.6081:

One of the most obvious reasons a war could start is due to Asura comments. Asura are almost always insulting the intelligence of others.

Insults are not a reason for a full scale war.

In fact, they are often the reasons for wars, though it mostly seems to England starting them because for that. Asura are not the smartest race. They don’t have much common sense, they meddle in things they think they understand and many other reasons besides. Even if someone’s ugly, the social convention is not to point it out. Doing so constantly would get on anyone’s nerves sooner or later. If I repeatedly told an Asura it inventions sucked, when they did, they Asura would not like that. I would probably end up getting punched sooner or later too. What Asura lack is politeness. While other races are smart enough not to point out things like that, Asura are not. That doesn’t seem very smart to me. And an Asura/Charr war would end up stale-mate, anyone who says different is probably an idiot, or very arrogant.

kind of reminds me of:
“They risk the lives of innocent people. They want to assassinate the council…”
“But worst of all, they stole MY invention!”
jup. Such an egocentric worldview is enough reason to start a war.

Types of intelligence tested for today:

1. Naturalist Intelligence (“Nature Smart”)

Designates the human ability to discriminate among living things (plants, animals) as well as sensitivity to other features of the natural world (clouds, rock configurations). This ability was clearly of value in our evolutionary past as hunters, gatherers, and farmers; it continues to be central in such roles as botanist or chef. It is also speculated that much of our consumer society exploits the naturalist intelligences, which can be mobilized in the discrimination among cars, sneakers, kinds of makeup, and the like.

2. Musical Intelligence (“Musical Smart”)

Musical intelligence is the capacity to discern pitch, rhythm, timbre, and tone. This intelligence enables us to recognize, create, reproduce, and reflect on music, as demonstrated by composers, conductors, musicians, vocalist, and sensitive listeners. Interestingly, there is often an affective connection between music and the emotions; and mathematical and musical intelligences may share common thinking processes. Young adults with this kind of intelligence are usually singing or drumming to themselves. They are usually quite aware of sounds others may miss.

3. Logical-Mathematical Intelligence (Number/Reasoning Smart)

Logical-mathematical intelligence is the ability to calculate, quantify, consider propositions and hypotheses, and carry out complete mathematical operations. It enables us to perceive relationships and connections and to use abstract, symbolic thought; sequential reasoning skills; and inductive and deductive thinking patterns. Logical intelligence is usually well developed in mathematicians, scientists, and detectives. Young adults with lots of logical intelligence are interested in patterns, categories, and relationships. They are drawn to arithmetic problems, strategy games and experiments.

4. Existential Intelligence

Sensitivity and capacity to tackle deep questions about human existence, such as the meaning of life, why do we die, and how did we get here.

5. Interpersonal Intelligence (People Smart”)

Interpersonal intelligence is the ability to understand and interact effectively with others. It involves effective verbal and nonverbal communication, the ability to note distinctions among others, sensitivity to the moods and temperaments of others, and the ability to entertain multiple perspectives. Teachers, social workers, actors, and politicians all exhibit interpersonal intelligence. Young adults with this kind of intelligence are leaders among their peers, are good at communicating, and seem to understand others’ feelings and motives.

6. Bodily-Kinesthetic Intelligence (“Body Smart”)

Bodily kinesthetic intelligence is the capacity to manipulate objects and use a variety of physical skills. This intelligence also involves a sense of timing and the perfection of skills through mind–body union. Athletes, dancers, surgeons, and craftspeople exhibit well-developed bodily kinesthetic intelligence.

7. Linguistic Intelligence (Word Smart)

Linguistic intelligence is the ability to think in words and to use language to express and appreciate complex meanings. Linguistic intelligence allows us to understand the order and meaning of words and to apply meta-linguistic skills to reflect on our use of language. Linguistic intelligence is the most widely shared human competence and is evident in poets, novelists, journalists, and effective public speakers. Young adults with this kind of intelligence enjoy writing, reading, telling stories or doing crossword puzzles.

8. Intra-personal Intelligence (Self Smart”)

Intra-personal intelligence is the capacity to understand oneself and one’s thoughts and feelings, and to use such knowledge in planning and directioning one’s life. Intra-personal intelligence involves not only an appreciation of the self, but also of the human condition. It is evident in psychologist, spiritual leaders, and philosophers. These young adults may be shy. They are very aware of their own feelings and are self-motivated.

9. Spatial Intelligence (“Picture Smart”)

Spatial intelligence is the ability to think in three dimensions. Core capacities include mental imagery, spatial reasoning, image manipulation, graphic and artistic skills, and an active imagination. Sailors, pilots, sculptors, painters, and architects all exhibit spatial intelligence. Young adults with this kind of intelligence may be fascinated with mazes or jigsaw puzzles, or spend free time drawing or daydreaming.

Asura seem to be weak in interpersonal intelligence. Like Sheldon form The Big Bang Theory

a lack of existencial intelligence could only be seen as good.
Charr don’t think about why they exist or any stupid questions like that, they just act.
Same with other stuff. Asura think way too much yet still too little.

Asura’s will just conquer the world without a problem if they really feel like doing it.

Shadowdawn.7946:

Vekthor.8914:

ShroudedKoyo.6081:

One of the most obvious reasons a war could start is due to Asura comments. Asura are almost always insulting the intelligence of others.

Insults are not a reason for a full scale war.

In fact, they are often the reasons for wars, though it mostly seems to England starting them because for that. Asura are not the smartest race. They don’t have much common sense, they meddle in things they think they understand and many other reasons besides. Even if someone’s ugly, the social convention is not to point it out. Doing so constantly would get on anyone’s nerves sooner or later. If I repeatedly told an Asura it inventions sucked, when they did, they Asura would not like that. I would probably end up getting punched sooner or later too. What Asura lack is politeness. While other races are smart enough not to point out things like that, Asura are not. That doesn’t seem very smart to me. And an Asura/Charr war would end up stale-mate, anyone who says different is probably an idiot, or very arrogant.

I repeat, wars aren’t started by insults from one population to another.

A full-scale war requires commitment from the governement, from the people, means huge life losses and full economical focus geared towards the war effort. The tow it brings on life and the economy is way too high for wars to be start for such a frivolous reason.

It can happen for isolated incidents, maybe regional conflicts, but not for a full-scale war. If the region in which said conflict takes place is essential to both country’s economies and strategy, then it might evolve into a diplomatic dispute, but war won’t happen unless both countries/governements have another reason to do so. As I said, wars are too heavy a burden for the people involved for starting so easilly for mere words.

This fact is even less likely to take place in Tyria under its current situation. Both the Charr and the Aura are facing the dragon menance and have their own issues within their borders (ash legion and scalonian ghosts and the inquest) to focus on acquiring yet another enemy, and, even moreso, one that is currently an ally in the fighting against perhaps the greatest menance to the world (the dragons).

So no, a war wouldn’t not start between the Aura and the Charr based solely on Aura (or anyone’s) comments, no matter how snarky they were.

It seems most people here grossly underestimate the Human and Norn races.

Humans for actually having conquered most of the Charr for ages before being beat back (it still proves that they can stand up to char in an all out war). Lets not forget that the Krytan people having problems of their own did not allow for ALL humans to be united against the Charr offensive did not help either. Humans are a perfect blend between the Asurans (very easily adaptable to technology) and Char (cunning and brawn when needed).

Norn. What is there to say, incredible individual fighters. They aren’t in this discussion because you’d be hard pressed to find them organized for a war offensive, but if united they would be a juggernaut.

Before anyone brings them up, tree people don’t get a seat at the table.

Altie.4571:

It seems most people here grossly underestimate the Human and Norn races.

Humans for actually having conquered most of the Charr for ages before being beat back (it still proves that they can stand up to char in an all out war). Lets not forget that the Krytan people having problems of their own did not allow for ALL humans to be united against the Charr offensive did not help either. Humans are a perfect blend between the Asurans (very easily adaptable to technology) and Char (cunning and brawn when needed).

Norn. What is there to say, incredible individual fighters. They aren’t in this discussion because you’d be hard pressed to find them organized for a war offensive, but if united they would be a juggernaut.

Before anyone brings them up, tree people don’t get a seat at the table.

I agree with you about the Humans and Norn, but while they would be able to put up a fight I don’t think they would last. Humans are far more the under-dog now then they were when they first conquered the Charr, with most of their nations being destroyed (Orr and Ascalon).

It seems the general consensus is that it would end as a slug fest between the Charr and the Asura. Which I would have to agree with.

(BTW: I lolled when I read your Sylvari comment )

Honestly, considering Sylvari adaptability, they’d make the perfect ‘Dark Horse’ in this kind of situation. It’s not as if they lack [trade] access to the technology of both Charr and Asura, let alone their own botanically-derived equipment and minions. They also seem to lack a lot of the other races’ inbuilt prejudices [excepting our good … friends … in the Nightmare Court].

The real issue would be: the number of potential combatants of any race involved in such a conflict. This is potentially another situation where other races would have a disadvantage. Any Sylvari is effectively ‘adult’ from the get-go, whereas Asura/Human/Charr/Norn all have “X” years of childhood to undergo.

Now, the Asura have a potential balance: namely Golems. This does depend on a few factors:

a.) Golem manufacturing speed.
b.) Golem reliability [which, to judge from in-game logic … seems to be troublesome]
c.) Golem power requirements.

As for Charr, I’d agree with the concept that – even accounting for their military precision and technology – they’d kitten well need a leader with the Claw of the Khan-Ur. Otherwise, it’s possibile to exploit inter-Legion squabbling to derail their war efforts. Let alone the meat needs for a race of nigh-pure carnivores of THEIR size.

Norns are insanely buff, but their general individualistic attitude would make any organized war effort a pain of absolutely monumental proportions. Getting them to form an actual army’d be like pulling teeth, sans Novocaine.

Humans have entirely too many problems to realistically get in the middle of this kind of feces-storm. If it’s not political issues vs. Jennah, it’s White Mantle. If not WM, Centaurs. And so on.

Ah, well – I think I’ve slapped down enough textwall for now. Do enjoy.

Vekthor.8914:

Shadowdawn.7946:

Vekthor.8914:

ShroudedKoyo.6081:

One of the most obvious reasons a war could start is due to Asura comments. Asura are almost always insulting the intelligence of others.

Insults are not a reason for a full scale war.

In fact, they are often the reasons for wars, though it mostly seems to England starting them because for that. Asura are not the smartest race. They don’t have much common sense, they meddle in things they think they understand and many other reasons besides. Even if someone’s ugly, the social convention is not to point it out. Doing so constantly would get on anyone’s nerves sooner or later. If I repeatedly told an Asura it inventions sucked, when they did, they Asura would not like that. I would probably end up getting punched sooner or later too. What Asura lack is politeness. While other races are smart enough not to point out things like that, Asura are not. That doesn’t seem very smart to me. And an Asura/Charr war would end up stale-mate, anyone who says different is probably an idiot, or very arrogant.

I repeat, wars aren’t started by insults from one population to another.

A full-scale war requires commitment from the governement, from the people, means huge life losses and full economical focus geared towards the war effort. The tow it brings on life and the economy is way too high for wars to be start for such a frivolous reason.

It can happen for isolated incidents, maybe regional conflicts, but not for a full-scale war. If the region in which said conflict takes place is essential to both country’s economies and strategy, then it might evolve into a diplomatic dispute, but war won’t happen unless both countries/governements have another reason to do so. As I said, wars are too heavy a burden for the people involved for starting so easilly for mere words.

This fact is even less likely to take place in Tyria under its current situation. Both the Charr and the Aura are facing the dragon menance and have their own issues within their borders (ash legion and scalonian ghosts and the inquest) to focus on acquiring yet another enemy, and, even moreso, one that is currently an ally in the fighting against perhaps the greatest menance to the world (the dragons).

So no, a war wouldn’t not start between the Aura and the Charr based solely on Aura (or anyone’s) comments, no matter how snarky they were.

You are confusing war with total war. Wars dont have to be huge conflicts involving millions. No race in Tyria would be able to fight a war you are imagining simply because there is no industry, government or conscription on that scale. Just look at the middle ages/early modern times, here conflicts were not between governments, but between rulers with ambition. Only a small part of the population was involved in the war effort, rulers using their private armies and producers to fight each other. A war in Tyria would be fought on a scale like this, if you look at the political organisation of the races (krewes, legions/warbands, tribes). Full-scale wars can be fought on the level of Tyria, just look at the Punic wars. We could call this a full-scale war, both parties wanted to eliminate the other, yet not the whole economy and population was involved.

I agree that starting a war over insults might seem extreme, but what I meant in my post is that insults can lead to fights, grudges etc. Asura and Charr both have warbands/krewes which would side with their own members, so revenge for something done by the other side isnt really unthinkable. Your post seems ignore what insults can lead to. No war was ever started over insults alone, but what evolves out of it. Besides insults can be the result of a more racist mindset (for example, we are smarter, therefore the others are lesser races), which as history has proven has lead to horrible events.

Again I did take into account that both races have more pressing matters to take care of in a previous post. That is why I argued that this kind of conflict is the one I think could be started in the shortest possible time, because no sane person would start another war with so many other threats much closer.

On Humans, Norn and Sylvari. I didnt factor them in because of several reasons. They also face threats which they have to overcome first, Risen, Nightmare court, Centaur, followers of Jormag, Dredge etc. Furthermore none of these races will probably have a chance if we take away all other races/threats and only our unified 5 remain. The technology/magic of the Charr and Asura would probably make short work out of them. Both Asura and Charr have the edge over them in these aspect and I dont think these 3 races have the numbers to negate this significant advantage.

I would like to add that the distance between the nations definitely favors the Asura. People keep mentioning the trouble the charr would have with a supply train. Not only is it a ridiculously long, it would have to go straight through Tyria. The Charr would have to commit genocide on the Humans before they could even consider pushing a war effort through to Rata Sum.

The flip side of that being, I doubt the Humans would be much opposed to the Asura setting up a gate near Divinity’s reach as a front to their war.

I don’t think the Charr would go to Rata Sum. A war between the two would most likely happen on Charr territory, and would most likely be started by the Asura, through insults/accidents with tech etc. But for either side to have a real advantage would be if either side managed to give unanimous support to a leader. Charr need someone to have good claims to the Claw, while Asura need an undisputed genius. Asura would take a while to pull together as a nation, as they are used to working for themselves and a few others. They must also have the full support of the Inquest. Charr would have an easier time, as they are used to working with others, and know to put their warband/legion/nation ahead of themselves. But they need both the Claw and the ability to get every Charr to acknowledge them as leader, and they must have good standing with all the legions, including Flame. Right now, neither nation can afford war, and would probably end up with a stale-mate anyway.

I can’t believe no on mention this. Asura have flying city. They can build flying constructs. Who could possibly stop them from building some kind of flying fortress, armed in heavy cannons? No on could reach them. Invasion from above. With that, distance wouldn’t be problem, even without gates.
Setting few flying outposts in strategic point in the world would be nice idea. Taking over mines, cutting enemy from supplies.
I think we have a winner.
Of course, everything depends on how fast these construct could be build.

simply put, the asura work as small, in-cohesive groups because it works better that way.
in guild wars beyond, when livia brings only 2 asurans to help win the war, the response was “only 2”. livias reply was “trust me, thats all you want” or something like that. also in eotn you see an asuran meeting, and all them talk at once. the asuran hero guy even says “typical asuaran meeting, get 10 asurans, 12 people talking.” or something like that. the asurans biggest strength is also their greatest downfall. they know there smart, smarter than everybody. including other asurans. problem is they all think that and argue.

theFloaty.5812:

simply put, the asura work as small, in-cohesive groups because it works better that way.
in guild wars beyond, when livia brings only 2 asurans to help win the war, the response was “only 2”. livias reply was “trust me, thats all you want” or something like that. also in eotn you see an asuran meeting, and all them talk at once. the asuran hero guy even says “typical asuaran meeting, get 10 asurans, 12 people talking.” or something like that. the asurans biggest strength is also their greatest downfall. they know there smart, smarter than everybody. including other asurans. problem is they all think that and argue.

Hmmm. This may be a natural cap that limits their potential in a total war. Then they would be further split into each college wanting to tackle each campaign and problem in their own college way. As RL huamns we take for granted out ability to integrate ideas into one workable method but it seems in this universe everyone doesn’t tend to do that. At least not the charr and asura. We know the charr can if one khan Ur displays an incredible amount of strength. We don’t know what exactly would drive the asura to do it, if anything.

Eagleowl.2458:

Since Asura invented gates and way points it stands to reason that they’re the only race that can build them. If they disable the other waypoints and gates they could easily isolate nations from each other and take them one at a time while at the same time being able to travel much faster than any race.

Or they could just make Asura Gates 2 feet tall.

MajorShock.4023:

So I ask you this if the Asura created a military force would any race be able to stop them? Or would the Asuran War Machine steam roll over all of Tyria. Taking out Elder Dragons and alliances, in a 1 on 1 war was to erupt who would be victorious?

i think the charr would handily beat the asura. i mean they also have all their machines or war and mass destruction, but the charr are more akin to war and the tactics and strategies used in war.

if it came down to just pure fire power, firing back and forth at each other, then the asura might be able to gain the edge, but in a full scale war i dont think they could stand up to the war machine that is the charr.

and dont forget, the charr present in tyria only consist of the iron legion and small pieces/regiments of blood and ash, and that alone rivals the other races in numbers and size. if there was a 1v1 race war between the asura and charr dont doubt that blood and ash would join them in full force, which would most likely tip the scales even further.

that being said the asura could definitely beat the sylvari and norn in a 1v1 war, neither have the forces or strongholds necessary. same for the humans, sorta. the only reason the humans in ebonhawke ended up holding out to the charr as long as they did was cause some asura built gates between divinitys reaach and ebonhawke, once again allowing supplies and munitions to get through the charr blockade. without the asura the humans would have completely lost ascalon, so in a war against the asura the humans wont be getting help like that obviously (especially in a 1v1), so i think the asura would manage to get the edge on them as well.

over all my ratings of military strength/likeliness of victory in 1v1s is:

1. charr
2. asura
3. human
4. sylvari
5. norn

I roll as an Asura Necromancer
On the topic of the fluffy kitten (shadowdawn) coming into our columns
I think that silly little kitty should go back to his own forum, go play with his little steam weapons and leave the thinking to the intellect of the Asura

In the event of a war, those little kittens wouldn’t stand a chance against the combined might of the colleges and the inquest. We would teleport over there, with Golem and Magic, and show those. Silly little kittens that when you play with the big kids, you generally lose
Kind regards, Ronjua of the College of Synergetics