Guild Wars 2

I have a Norn guard, human mesmer, and human thief. Back near launch I created an Asura Warrior too, but never got around to leveling her to 80 till just recently.

She is such an amazingly fun little zipping zooming pinball of death, within a week of hitting 80 I knew I had to reroll my guardian to an Asura too, and I hate leveling. But she’s closing on in on 80 now as well.

Oh. my. lord. These little guys are sooo much more fun than the big races. They play with so much more pace, alacrity, and quickness it feels like an entirely different game.

It’s a bizarre illusion b/c I know they do everything at the same speed as the other races, but still it’s there and has a tremendous effect on my enjoyment of it.

Also Norn’s have some wonkiness with GS Leap of Faith where it misses lower elevation targets or gets snagged by something in the ground, that just doesn’t happen with Asuras. Nice to be able to rely on that staple Guardian skill for a change.

Once you go Asura, you never go back. Unless you care a great deal about armor aesthetics, which I don’t, except for the T3 Tron look 1, 2. Only wish I’d gone 100% Asura at launch.

You’ve seen the light, congratulations!

I played about 4 hours of Charr something or other (after leveling my Asura Engi to 80) – and it felt like I was walking in mud.

It’s good to play a larger race once in a while though so you can keep appreciating that feeling of speed. You get used to it after a while.

In the same boat as you. I have a male thief that I’ve got about 80 percent of my playtime on. He’s got multiple exotic sets and full ascended now plus he has my fused ticket I found.

After playing a lot more wvw, I had a few duels against asuran thiefs. Man they were like little ninjas, they were flying in and out of stealth and if their in a group , its hard to click on them. I decided to make one and I like it a lot so far.

Only problem I have is ascended gear and the fused bow. Hoping I can get the bow transmuted into a white maybe to make it account bound. I’m a little terrified to try. Other then that , let the fun begin. Enjoying the asuran story too. Can’t wait to get higher level and try some wvw. I use to for human t3 cause I liked the look. But after getting killed a couple times by an asuran with p/p with quip, I felt like I was being grilled and being a thief is all about trolling. Hehehe

Upvoted for

kurtosis.9526:

little zipping zooming pinball of death

The apparent overcompensation when stopping or dodging is simply to make the lesser races feel like they do something better than we Asura, too.

((A big part of the charm for me is the slightly cartoony feel. And the feeling of raw speed. And the implication that we’re just barely in control of the forces we unleash.))

You go the same speed. Enjoy your placebo.

Love it when I do earth shaker. I show off how skilled I am by including a front flip. (The animation for the hammer leaps include a front flip)

Time ago I had a Charr lvl 44 … I didn’t feel comfortable, so now is an Asura. I only play Asura.

synk.6907:

You go the same speed. Enjoy your placebo.

I believe there are a number of comments that indicate folks realize they all go the same speed. However due to the small stature of the asura, ground travel has a visceral sensation of speed because of how fast they have to move their limbs to cover the same distance a larger model does. Do you even know what the word placebo means?

Remillard.8691:

synk.6907:

You go the same speed. Enjoy your placebo.

I believe there are a number of comments that indicate folks realize they all go the same speed. However due to the small stature of the asura, ground travel has a visceral sensation of speed because of how fast they have to move their limbs to cover the same distance a larger model does. Do you even know what the word placebo means?

Quoting for emphasis. Yes, we all realize that the different races all move at the same speed, and jump the same height, as measured in game world units. However, the ratio of distance covered to avatar height differs greatly between the tall Norn or Charr and we Asura. This leads to a PERCEPTION of faster movement.

Playing my norn really helped me understand how to interact with terrain heights better. Going immediately back to my asura makes me feel like I’m out of control fast. After a momentary adjustment period, I feel like Rata Sum is a giant DDR pad.

Remillard.8691:

synk.6907:

You go the same speed. Enjoy your placebo.

Do you even know what the word placebo means?

Yes, I do, which is why I chose to use it. Often comments about asura being "quick" or charr being slow or whatever leads me to believe folks are happy in assuming something exists that does not, i.e. a "cure" for the slowness of other races. I find it a pretty amusing reason to claim a race is better.

Still, animations are, in my opinion, a pretty important reason for picking a race. If the perceived speed of asura actions works for you, enjoy it, I say.

synk.6907:

Yes, I do, which is why I chose to use it. Often comments about asura being “quick” or charr being slow or whatever leads me to believe folks are happy in assuming something exists that does not, i.e. a “cure” for the slowness of other races. I find it a pretty amusing reason to claim a race is better.

Just in case you didn’t read my entire post, I did cover that:

kurtosis.9526:

It’s a bizarre illusion b/c I know they do everything at the same speed as the other races, but still it’s there and has a tremendous effect on my enjoyment of it.

synk.6907:

Still, animations are, in my opinion, a pretty important reason for picking a race. If the perceived speed of asura actions works for you, enjoy it, I say.

For sure. That, and I still have strong suspicions there are small technical differences between Asura and the larger characters. After several hundred hours on a Norn guardian, little buggy things I’ve gotten used to just don’t happen on my Asura:

kurtosis.9526:

Also Norn’s have some wonkiness with GS Leap of Faith where it misses lower elevation targets or gets snagged by something in the ground, that just doesn’t happen with Asuras. Nice to be able to rely on that staple Guardian skill for a change.

The relief I feel when using LoF on an Asura and actually being able to trust it is palpable.

I know ANet says there is no difference in these things, but complex software systems like this sometimes have unpredictable, emergent interactions in the code that can lead to little ghosts in the machine. This could be one.

pflashan.9463:

Quoting for emphasis. Yes, we all realize that the different races all move at the same speed, and jump the same height, as measured in game world units. However, the ratio of distance covered to avatar height differs greatly between the tall Norn or Charr and we Asura. This leads to a PERCEPTION of faster movement.

Yes, the same effect occurs in cars as well – cars with the driver closer to the ground feel like they’er going faster than, say, big SUV’s with the driver higher up. A trick of perception, but it makes a big difference in sensation of speed.

Technically, Asura are pretty fast, since they CAN keep up with the larger races with the longer legs. One Norn step is many Asuran steps. Plus they are very bouncy which I like, like when side stepping with a staff then you stop and they have to like, stop themselves from falling over.

I also re-rolled an Asura warrior from my Charr warrior too. Once you go Asura, you can never go back. It is significantly easier to jump and dodge as an Asura, especially if you compare it with Charr characters.

Therefore, when I decide to roll a necro, she has to be an Asura too!!

In WvW, she is most certainly a “fun little zipping zooming pinball of death”. Not to mention she is almost always the last one standing, because that’s the only time you can spot her in a large zerging group.

Remillard.8691:

synk.6907:

You go the same speed. Enjoy your placebo.

I believe there are a number of comments that indicate folks realize they all go the same speed. However due to the small stature of the asura, ground travel has a visceral sensation of speed because of how fast they have to move their limbs to cover the same distance a larger model does. Do you even know what the word placebo means?

To be fair, that’s exactly what placebo means. Placebo, from the latin placebo meaning “I will please”, is a term used for a treatment or other solution that gives the subject the sensation of improvement without necessarily getting the improvement in the first place. Such is also the case with the asura animations – the way they’re designed, they are required to move quickly to maintain the same distance over time as their larger counterparts, particularly norn and charr. They feel quicker, but they aren’t. This is a placebo effect.

The same also applies to things like combat, for example. The way asura swing a greatsword or hammer, the animations show a lot of force that was no doubt put in there due to their small stature by the design team. Conversely, larger races don’t have the same animations of impact, often making them feel stiff and dull. Mechanically the combat with either weapon for any profession that can wield them is identical, but for asura it feels meatier. I also believe that due to the small size of the asura, the lack of force from running around while swinging (one of the prime reasons many MMOs go for a “stationary when doing damage” approach) is less noticable on asura than on characters that fill up more of your screen space, and so is less immersion breaking.

Well, I stand corrected, slightly. I think the placebo effect is mainly appropriate when the person doesn’t know they’re under the effect. This is why it is used as the control for experiments. Both groups in a study believe they’re getting the real deal, while some portion are receiving a neutral, non-affective regimen. Hence, when I was pointing this out, my main point is that everyone knows that one is not faster than the other.

However, to be technically correct (the best kind of correct) while there is the definition regarding controls in experiments, there is a larger definition that is just the general psychological experience where something feels in a certain way when there’s no rational explanation for it actually being true (or something to that effect). So, apologies offered.

There is a visual difference and that makes it more than a placebo, which is purely in the mind. Norns are animated to move slowly, asura are animated to move fast and due to their height, the ground moves by faster on the screen for asura.

Playing norns is an unpleasant exercise in moving in slow motion. It looks and feels wrong because our mind knows that, for their height, they should be covering more ground.

chronometria.3708:

There is a visual difference and that makes it more than a placebo, which is purely in the mind. Norns are animated to move slowly, asura are animated to move fast and due to their height, the ground moves by faster on the screen for asura.

Playing norns is an unpleasant exercise in moving in slow motion. It looks and feels wrong because our mind knows that, for their height, they should be covering more ground.

Debateable. At (insert any text to avoid censoring) its loosest definition, a placebo can be described as “any difference between personal perception in any of the five senses, after a percieved modifier has been introduced, and physical facts in the person’s favor”. The personal perception would be the visual sensation of moving faster than humans, sylvari, charr and norn. The percieved modifier would be the height of the asura in comparison to the other races. Finally the physical facts would be that the character does not move any quicker or slower over a distance over time than any other character that is in the same condition (combat/out of combat, with Swiftness, Cripple, Chill, or any other movement speed modifiers). Thus, a placebo effect.

It is actually comparable to another placebo effect that I’m sure people who’ve driven motorcycles experience (or experienced the first few times they drove). A motorcycle traveling at a certain speed feels faster than a car traveling at the same speed. This, too, is due to the mind being aware of the size of the motorcycle, and perhaps more importantly the lack of protection it gives at high speeds, and thus in self-preservation attempts to “scare itself” into slowing down.

Another placebo effect (I’m on a roll today) in the loosest sense of the word is a trick played on many school kids where I grew up. The math teacher would ask what weighs the most, one ton of lead or one ton of feathers. Obviously they both weigh the same amount, but the mind instinctively percieves that a feather is light while lead is heavy, thus one ton of lead must be heavier than one ton of feathers.

All this said and done, however, whether it classifies as a placebo effect or not is irrelevant to the function itself. The simple fact is that the character does not run any slower or faster than any other, and that’s that.

This is quite an extreme way of going about things, but imagine a human and an ant. To the average male, moving forward 6 feet is 100% their body height, whereas with an ant, 6 feet is a far greater number and so, in order to cross the same distance at the same speed, the ant would have to travel at a far greater speed relative to her (as most ants are) body size. The same applies, though not nearly to such an extreme degree, with an Asura and a Norn or Charr. Yes, they are covering the same distance in the same amount of time, but the Asura has to move quicker (again, relative to his/her size).

That is true.

However, now consider if the ant and the human were both moving six feet in the same amount of time at all times. The ant would still feel like it’s going to get places faster than the human because it’s simply blitzing along the ground while strands of grass hurl themselves by at terrifying speeds – but it does not in any way change the truth that the ant isn’t faster than the human.

Just a reminder (for those who didn’t have as stubborn a physicist teacher as I did): speed is not relative to size. The definition of speed is distance travelled per unit time. The calculation is v = d / t, where v is the velocity or speed, d is the distance covered, and t is the time units in the measurement. None of these three factors take into consideration the subject’s height or otherwise relative size or mass. Thus we can conclude that size, height and mass have no effect on speed measurement. And from that, we can derive that the feeling of asura moving faster than norn or charr is an effect induced only in the mind, as under no circumstances will an asura move faster (as per the definition above) than a norn or charr in the same condition.

There is a difference between “relative” and “absolute”.

It depends on what you refer to. Asura animations are alot faster than those of a norn while they don’t get somewhere faster. So compared to the distance they travel in a certain time they are as fast as everyone else, compared to themselfes their movements are faster. Their legs move faster compared to other races but each step doesn’t gain so much distance with each step so the Asura as a whole is only as fast as everyone else.

I wish I had the patience of my teacher, but I really don’t.

It’s really very simple. People feel the asura move faster than norn or charr. Multiple tests have shown that this is not the case. Clearly people’s interpretation of the speed of the asura relative to the speed of norn and charr are NOT consistent with the facts.

I don’t know how much more I can dumb it down, really. Perception does not match facts, facts are objective, perception is subjective, thus by applying Occam’s Razor, the subjective must be false. If we know X = Z, the statement that Y = Z must be false if Y does not equal X. The raven’s legs are equally long, especially the left one.

I don’t even see why people need to debate that asura run as fast as norn and charr and thus the impression that they are faster is false.

Can we also agree that for such a physically weak race, they have an amazing acrobatic ability? They can back-flip over a car like it’s NOTHING! I mean I know that asura can jump as high as any other race but, relative to their height, that is quite the jump.

I can certainly agree to that so long as you’re not dragging it into “asura can jump higher than any other race” territory.

Not sure about backflipping over a car though. I might be inclined to agree if it was an asura-sized car, and cars actually existed. :P

Jigain.8231:

To be fair, that’s exactly what placebo means. Placebo, from the latin placebo meaning “I will please”, is a term used for a treatment or other solution that gives the subject the sensation of improvement without necessarily getting the improvement in the first place. Such is also the case with the asura animations – the way they’re designed, they are required to move quickly to maintain the same distance over time as their larger counterparts, particularly norn and charr. They feel quicker, but they aren’t. This is a placebo effect.

To be fair, there are two types of placebo – one where recipients know they’re getting the fake treatment, and one where neither the control group nor the placebo group know which they’re getting.

This is obviously a case of the former, at least for everyone in this thread. There is no functional/technical difference b/t most Asura skills and those of other races. Angular velocity of smaller orbits may make their weapon swings appear quicker, but they’re swinging the same speed as all others. Run speed is obviously the same. Etc. etc.

But after spending six months playing a Norn guardian, I can guarantee that increased pleasure I derive from all of these little illusions is very real.

And a few things are not illusions, but actual technical/functional advantages, despite ANet’s best attempt equalize all the races:

1. Better camera manipulation in tight spaces like jumping puzzles. The very fact that Asura are so short that you can zoom in and see over their head instead of being body blocked like the other races is a huge quality of life improvement.

2. Easier to jump-dodge. I was never able to figure this out on my Norn, but was able to do it after a few days on my Asura.

3. Guardian Greatsword #3 Leap of Faith not bugged on Asura, much more reliable. Doesn’t hang on irregularities in the ground, and doesn’t miss targets at slightly lower elevation.

That’s all I can think of off the top of my head atm, more later if they come to me.

And we’re still arguing about what placebo means because…?

Skipping the parts that were essentially just repeats of what has already been stated…

kurtosis.9526:

And a few things are not illusions, but actual technical/functional advantages, despite ANet’s best attempt equalize all the races:

1. Better camera manipulation in tight spaces like jumping puzzles. The very fact that Asura are so short that you can zoom in and see over their head instead of being body blocked like the other races is a huge quality of life improvement.

2. Easier to jump-dodge. I was never able to figure this out on my Norn, but was able to do it after a few days on my Asura.

3. Guardian Greatsword #3 Leap of Faith not bugged on Asura, much more reliable. Doesn’t hang on irregularities in the ground, and doesn’t miss targets at slightly lower elevation.

That’s all I can think of off the top of my head atm, more later if they come to me.

1. Offset by smaller, less noticable character when fully zoomed out, particularly in PvE boss battles. Though I must say ANet could “fix” this “issue” by allowing the camera to zoom all the way into first person. Also on the topic of offset, the offset camera option is also a working solution on getting visibility on larger characters.

2. Before now I hadn’t even heard about jump-dodge. Possibly because I don’t do sPvP. Can’t say anything regarding whether or not it’s easier or harder to do on an asura, but if I read things correctly, it’s a matter of hitting jump and dodge at the exact same time, which should not be different for an asura versus any other race – unless you have a specific keyboard that you can only use while playing an asura.

3. I call your one profession specific skill and raise you all flurry-effect abilities across all professions, which are currently not working as intended on asura (visually dealing half damage compared to other races).

Jigain.8231:

1. Offset by smaller, less noticable character when fully zoomed out, particularly in PvE boss battles. Though I must say ANet could “fix” this “issue” by allowing the camera to zoom all the way into first person. Also on the topic of offset, the offset camera option is also a working solution on getting visibility on larger characters.

I’ve heard people complain about this, but so far it hasn’t affected me too much, at least on Shatterer, SB, and Karka Queen. I just keep my eyes focused on the center of my monitor, watch for numbers to make sure I’m in range, and watch my skill cooldowns with peripheral vision.

All that WvW zerg training where you have to keep your Commander centered in the screen at all times, which means you’re not watching your own character anyway. Instead, you’re mentally constructing a vector from the center of your screen, where you know your character is even if you can’t see him, to the commander icon, and then attempting contract that vector as quickly as possible. Works similarly on big PvE events, but usually less frantic since most bosses are relatively stationary.

But yeah, definitely something to advise people of before rolling an Asura, if they think it could be a problem for them, then a bigger race might be better. I can see how, especially in World events, this could be a big problem for some people.

Jigain.8231:

2. Before now I hadn’t even heard about jump-dodge. Possibly because I don’t do sPvP. Can’t say anything regarding whether or not it’s easier or harder to do on an asura, but if I read things correctly, it’s a matter of hitting jump and dodge at the exact same time, which should not be different for an asura versus any other race – unless you have a specific keyboard that you can only use while playing an asura.

This is kinda what I’m getting at – I have the sneaking suspicion that despite ANet’s assurances to the contrary, there are minor technical/functional differences between the races. The Greatsword bug I mention I’m sure of it, which makes me suspect it may manifest in other areas too. Complex software is rife with these little unintended consequences, unforeseeable emergent interactions, and the like.

Jigain.8231:

3. I call your one profession specific skill and raise you all flurry-effect abilities across all professions, which are currently not working as intended on asura (visually dealing half damage compared to other races).

This is interesting, was not aware. What do you mean by “visually dealing half damage”? Are you saying Asura Flurry abilities are dealing the correct damage, but not showing it in the numbers they pop up? Or something else?

kurtosis.9526:

This is interesting, was not aware. What do you mean by “visually dealing half damage”? Are you saying Asura Flurry abilities are dealing the correct damage, but not showing it in the numbers they pop up? Or something else?

Yup, that’s precisely what I’m saying. It is as of yet unclear whether or not it actually deals less damage or not, but the majority of reports indicate that the damage dealt remains the same regardless of race, so Occam’s Razor on that too. It is confirmed, however, that any flurry attacks (mostly prevalent in the Warrior profession with Whirling Axe, Flurry (1hSwd adrenaline) and 100 Blades as examples, but also present with Thief Dagger Storm and Mesmer Blurred Frenzy and probably a good 3-5 more I can’t think of at the moment) will visually only hit with every 2-3 attack. Essentially what this means is if a human uses one of these skills and racks up a number of, say, 700 damage, an asura under the same conditions will see half or even down to a third as much damage.

Ok, as long as the actual damage is correct, I can live with that. I’m usually looking more at health bars than numbers anyway. Will go test Hundred Blades on some test dummies and golems to make sure.

Not sure if it matters, but I believe the Whirling Axe skill has been reported more oftenly. If you can’t see it with Hundred Blades, take a look at that (offhand axe skill #5).

I’ll be perfectly honest, I don’t have any asura characters with a flurry skill. Unless maybe my necromancer has one with her axe. All my information comes from friends, map chat, and the Bug Reports section of the forum.

So I know my comment doesn’t exactly go with the most recent posts, it does go with the original post.

I have at least one of every race, 2 of races that I liked more. I had to, in order to make all 8 classes. Well, I gotta say, I like the Asura the most and Charr the least. My first character was an Asura thief, and I love her to pieces! I play her every day and am working on (very slowly) a legendary. I love the way she flips around during combat, the running and stopping animations, even the jumping animations. The next race I like is Sylvari, but that discussion is for a different topic. By the time I got to a Charr, the last class I needed was a warrior. And I have to say, I have a really hard time playing that character. I don’t know if its because he’s a warrior or a Charr. I mean, I do like the charr, mostly I like how they run on all fours. But I just have a really hard time playing him. A while back, I made and tested each class in PvP as an Asura, tried out all the weapon skills and several of the traits, mostly to see what the animations looked like. And I immediately fell in love with the Asura warrior weapon animations, the way he flipped around with the axe, or spun around with the mace. It was quite an entertaining sight to be seen!
So, I’ve been considering making an Asura warrior to replace my Charr warrior.
I do want a Charr character though, but so I’ll just have to spend time with it in PvP on each class to figure out which animations I like the best on the Charr….

In the end, Asura are awesome!!!!

To all posts stating Asura’s are just as fast as inferior races :

We Asura are faster than other races, but due to length of limbs of these inferior races the traveled distance will be the same over time. Being fast means how fast you can move, not have far you can move in a set time. Due to our improved speed we can keep up with these inferiors easily.

And to state the obvious : Our limbs move faster.

Placebo…pff haha!