Guild Wars 2

About 11 months ago this was posted in this quote was posted in this sub forum:

applecup.3047:

I just want to get out of the way that I love Guild Wars 2, and while there are flaws it is still a wonderful game.

However.

I am Welsh, and a Welsh speaker, and interacting with the Sylvari in any way is at times painful. While I admire the work that must have gone into the game, there are plenty of instances where it feels like while some effort has been made to give the Sylvari a celtic flavour, not quite enough research was done – names and words are mispronounced, misspelt, and misused, which for those of us who understand the language puts a damper on the experience.

A few examples of what I mean:

• See original post for rest of the post in question *

I am here to refute this post somewhat. I doubt very much whether I will get an open response from the person who posted this topic, but I am hoping to open up some dialogue with other people and possibly explain some of why I don’t think that the mispronounciations (from a Welsh Perspective) are necessarily all that bad. So without further adieu, lets get started.

The first two words that he cites in his bullet points are probably accurate. But, when you get a bunch of professional actors and actresses together, all of whom are given a script, none of whom are very likely to know the native language of the Welsh, and several of whom probably aren’t even aware that there is a native language of the Welsh other than English. Chances are very very high that you are going to get mispronounced words all over the place.

With regards to the third bullet point, I noticed that several people in the previous thread on this topic were constantly agreeing with their Original Poster that Apple Castle made no sense. Well, unfortunately it does make sense, especially when you consider that Arthurian Legend plays a very large chunk in the design aesthetics of the Sylvari.

Geoffrey of Monmouth wrote of a place he referred to in his earliest of writings as Insula Pomorum, which is a latin phrase that basically means “Isle of Apples” or if Google Translate is to be believed, “Island Fruits.” The location in question goes by a couple of different names as well, the most common of which used in modern English is of course Avalon.

Now, as it happens, many ancient sites in Southern Brittainy (as it was known in Roman times) were actually the homes of Roman Fortications. The location of Avalon should be no different. Many people suspect that Glastonbury was the location of Avalon. While there is no direct evidence of a permanent settlement of Romans at the Tor of Glastonbury, there is evidence of Romans visiting there on occasion.

So please tell me again, why is it that Apple Castle doesn’t make sense in regards to Arthurian Legend? Add to that the plant based nature of the sylvari, their society, and their architecture and there is even more reason why a castle made of magically sculpted apple trees would make sense to some extent.

In regards to the name Gweithwyr, that was probably a botched attempt on their part to reference Guinevere.

Also he specifically singled out Cymraeg (Welsh) and Gailge (Irish)… why only those two? There are other live Celtic Diaspora Languages, Brezhoneg (Breton) is still spoken in Brittany (north shores of France), Gàidlig is still spoken in Scotland, Kernewek is still spoken in Cornwall, and Gaelg is still spoken on the Isle of Man. And thats not even getting into the dead branches of the language. So why single only those two out as being so far above the others? The Sylvari are based on Celtic Myth and Legend with a special interest in Arthurian Legend. There is as much of the other Celtic Nations in them as there is of Ireland and Wales. He shouldn’t have excluded any of the nations.

It should be noted that the word apple when translated into Brezhoneg, which would be what was spoken in and around the area of the Glastonbury Tor at the time Arthur was born, is actually spelled Aval, not Afal.

Man funny I should happen to see this! Why not reply to the original post? Or is necro-ing not really a thing around here? Anyhoo.

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

The first two words that he cites in his bullet points are probably accurate. But, when you get a bunch of professional actors and actresses together, all of whom are given a script, none of whom are very likely to know the native language of the Welsh, and several of whom probably aren’t even aware that there is a native language of the Welsh other than English. Chances are very very high that you are going to get mispronounced words all over the place.

No, and I concede this point (did I address it in my original post? I forget). But that’s what voice coaches are for. With anything that uses words which are unusual in English (never mind in other languages or made up entirely) you’ll get strange pronounciations, or have people misinterpreting how a word is supposed/intended to be pronounced. Frankly that is not much of an excuse, at least not in my book. Doubly so when using professionals.

To put it another way: Quenya was based fairly explicity on Welsh, and when creating pronounciation guides Tolkein managed not to screw up, and Peter Jackson stuck to them. When you’re using language that’s not just a conlang based on another language but is actually actively borrowing words and phrases wholesale from another language (especially when it’s that languages myths and culture you are attempting to emulate and evoke) it’s generally good form to at least try and get the pronounciation right.

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

So please tell me again, why is it that Apple Castle doesn’t make sense in regards to Arthurian Legend? Add to that the plant based nature of the sylvari, their society, and their architecture and there is even more reason why a castle made of magically sculpted apple trees would make sense to some extent.

Well except that there is nothing at all in either the area or in the Sylvari story (that I recall) where apples play any prominent part. If there was then I could have let it slide, probably, but it was completely without context. Moreover, it was titled “apple fort” in the middle of a place whose English/English-stand-in name is Fort Trinity. Yet the Sylvari-equivalent is Fort Apple, and while as someone with an apple-based handle I can’t entirely object there just doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason within the context of the fort or Trahearne himself for that name to have been given to it.

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

In regards to the name Gweithwyr, that was probably a botched attempt on their part to reference Guinevere.

That… is an enormous stretch. If they wanted to reference her (ps, that’s her French name; the Welsh would actually be Gwenhwyfar, which is even further from Gweithwyr) then she’d appear as- well, as a Guinevere-alike, complete with an Arthur-alike and a Lancelot-alike and maybe Scarlet would turn out to be Morgan le Faye or something. Sorry but I really don’t buy that at all. Frankly that poor Sylvari and her name seem to me to be much more likely to be a lesson in why not to put too much faith in Google Translate.

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

Also he specifically singled out Cymraeg (Welsh) and Gailge (Irish)… why only those two?

Because those are the two I am most familiar with, and because Welsh and Irish mythology (and/or pop-mythology) are what Anet have explicitly stated that the Sylvari lore was inspired by.