Guild Wars 2

Hello all that read this.

After several days asking myself if I should post this, I decided to go ahead. I’m an engineer. I’ve been one since I first played this game and this is the profession I most love. But currently, no matter what build I set up, I have difficulty in all arenas of play. I thought I was just bad or building all wrong. I recently switched to Ranger just for a little extra gathering in level 80 areas. My favorite area is Southsun Cove. It’s where I polished my reflexes and learned the best ways to deal with strong enemies.

When I went there with my ranger recently, everything was suddenly easy. I carry a longbow, a greatsword, a river drake, a blue moa, and green and yellow armor with gems. Sustain is highly damaging, and easy and the pet takes all if not most of the aggro. I was shocked to see that my pet could tank through several series of Veteran Karka attacks. I’ve fought 2 at once and won. I’m not even joking. I got a Champion Karka down to 50% of it’s first life bar before I made a couple of crucial mistakes. If I get downed, pet heal is there for me and right I’m back up. I can stay in the fight and not flee no matter what. On my engineer it’s another story. My turrets get busted one attack, I have shoddy condition removal even with multiple kits, and if I get downed, that’s it. I have to waypoint and repair because there’s nothing i can do.

What I’m getting at is I don’t understand where and what balance is currently. I don’t understand the disparity between professions in all states of play. What I’m asking is that the developers in charge of balance go to southsun and other high-level areas themselves and try to solo as many enemies as possible. Do with with as many professions as you can. Please let me know what happens.

The first mistake you made in your post was that you praised Ranger play and mechanics… just so you know, that is a giant NO NO … when it comes to Rangers, the ONLY thing you are allowed to say is, “pets sux, rangers need more dps” (jk) ;-)

Engineers are a very nuanced class, and they require greater micro and twitch reflexes than many other classes. Perhaps what you are running into is simply the steeper learning curve of the class. Also, Engi turrets are either really good or really-really bad, depending on the encounter and relative aoe dps output of your enemy. I would strongly recommend that you find a non-turret alternative for your engineer for most of your gameplay. I am NOT saying never to play with turrets or that they “sux totally”, but they will not offer the same level of aggro-magnet/meat-shield that tanky Ranger pets do … and it appears to me that that is what you are looking for. Consider a Grenade build or Bomber build, and I think your Engineer experience will be much better overall. Over time you will learn when its best to go with turrets for a change of pace.

try to tank players with a pet……..

Ision.3207:

The first mistake you made in your post was that you praised Ranger play and mechanics… just so you know, that is a giant NO NO … when it comes to Rangers, the ONLY thing you are allowed to say is, “pets sux, rangers need more dps” (jk) ;-)

Engineers are a very nuanced class, and they require greater micro and twitch reflexes than many other classes. Perhaps what you are running into is simply the steeper learning curve of the class. Also, Engi turrets are either really good or really-really bad, depending on the encounter and relative aoe dps output of your enemy. I would strongly recommend that you find a non-turret alternative for your engineer for most of your gameplay. I am NOT saying never to play with turrets or that they “sux totally”, but they will not offer the same level of aggro-magnet/meat-shield that tanky Ranger pets do … and it appears to me that that is what you are looking for. Consider a Grenade build or Bomber build, and I think your Engineer experience will be much better overall. Over time you will learn when its best to go with turrets for a change of pace.

I appreciate your reply but it’s not a learning curve at this point. I’ve mastered all kits and builds engineers are capable of. Tool kit, grenade kit, flame thrower, etc. I let go of turrets a while back for the greater dps and sustain of multiple kits. I only started playing with them again after the southsun ranger pet fiasco above. I was trying to equal in any way the ease of play that I had with a ranger, and I could not. I tried a Power build with rifle, and then a condition build with pistols. and I even tweaked them more with appropriate nourishment and stacked sigils. I can keep conditions going perpetually, but Veteran and Champion Karkas cleanse those conditions for each fourth of health they lose on their first lifebar. Also my turrets only occasionally aggro, but when they do, they get wiped at one attack. My elite supply crate, my healing turrets… Thumper turret can survive 2 attacks but that’s it. Or the karka will roll out of the turrets range and hit me with ranged attacks and immobilization, so turrets really aren’t an option currently. Nothing could equal the tankiness and mobility of pets. Not one thing I could do as an engineer. My reflexes are great and polished, and I can read every tell from any monster on southsun and dodge or thread the needle accordingly. But I also have to deal with karka hatchlings, reflect or dodge poison bombs, and deal with Veteran Karka crowd control, and that’s not something an engi can do on his or her own without playing like a genius at all times. Static Discharge crit build does nothing. Vulnerability and bleed stacking does nothing. Use flamethrower on a vet with retal and you might as well dig your own grave. I might give acidic elixirs a try but that’s just my point: I have to tweak so much to not even get close to the ranger’s ease of use. I switch to ranger when I want to relax.

What I’m saying out loud is that rangers in their current form are easy mode and more than forgiving. I appreciate that arenanet is trying to work with the community to tweak each class for the people through subforums like this very one, but there is such a visible disparity between classes currently that I can’t really stay silent about it anymore.

You need to based your opinions on dungeons, PvP, and WvW, not overworld PvE.

urdriel.8496:

try to tank players with a pet……..

I hear you. In PvP that’s a problem because pets can be ignored by smart players, or used by devious ones. Rangers don’t have a lot of defensive options besides the pet. Just dodges on sword, some dodges and interrupts on greatsword, hope to land the stealth arrow on longbow or hope your other soft cc options work.

But you have decent signets and stability from several sources. You’ve got a better chance of rallying when downed than at least 2 or 3 professions, and if you run spirits then you’re an automatic boon to your team in sPvP. Rangers honestly aren’t doing that bad within the current meta. I can see why you want more. Each class needs more. What I’m saying is you only have to think about what you’re doing, what nourishment you’re taking, what sigils, runes and trinkets to wear in PvP. If you’ve gotten spoiled in PvE to the point where you think you can tank with an AI pet on it’s own in PvP, then that may be the real issue.

Sarision.6347:

You need to based your opinions on dungeons, PvP, and WvW, not overworld PvE.

I’ll take you up on that challenge. I’ve passed dungeons with my ranger with no major issue, but I’ll give all arenas of play an equal go with her. I’ll tweak her out with great gear and visit the ranger threads more often for advice. I’ll give all the weapons a try. I’ll necro the heck out of this thread with the results and I’ll be honest about them. If I find ranger truly lacking, I’ll be sure to let you know. You’ve got my word on it.

Johnsonade, firstly, let me thank you for your polite and mature response to my post. Despite my incorrect assumption that you were looking for a meat/shield — aggro/magnet (thus I assumed inexperience) you did not reply like a WoW teenager whose adolescent pride has been injured. My mistake, I stand corrected.

Have you tried a bomber build; the classic heavy strafing right/left while spamming bombs with a dash of Rifle skills when appropriate? While I found it boring as hell, it was quite effective in open world PvE against the tougher high level Vets. I can’t really offer specific advice on Southsun and Karkas because my PvE experience now is limited to the absolute bare minimum I can get away with (the mindless grind for ascended gear), and for the most part I live in WvW.

And btw, you need to base your opinions on your own individual understanding, standards, play-style and choices – and nothing else. And from your tone, it appears you’re already doing that. Bravo.

I have both an 80 Ranger and 80 Engi (and 2 other classes), and they both do wonderfully well in WvW solo and and small group roaming – but I must admit that I don’t go anywhere near the mindless zerg-balls. As to easy-mode Rangers, it’s yes and no … the meat/shield — aggro/magnet aspect of their pets make them seem that way quite often in PvE, but trust me, you’ll get plenty of milage out of your Engi (especially in WvW). And the simple truth is, some classes are simply better than others in certain venues of the game or specific encounters. And I’m glad it’s that way, because I enjoy the variety. When it’s all said and done, sometimes its not the class: it’s us, the player. Sometimes we simply “click” better with one class over another.

Ision.3207:

Johnsonade, firstly, let me thank you for your polite and mature response to my post. Despite my incorrect assumption that you were looking for a meat/shield — aggro/magnet (thus I assumed inexperience) you did not reply like a WoW teenager.

Have you tried a bomber build; the classic strafe right/left while spamming bombs with a dash of Rifle skills when appropriate? While I found it boring as hell, it was quite effective in open world PvE against the tougher high level Vets.

And btw, you need to base your opinions on your own individual understanding, standards, play-style and choices. And from your tone, it appears you’re already doing that. Bravo. ;-)

I have both an 80 Ranger and 80 Engi (and 2 other classes), and they both do wonderfully well in WvW solo and and small group roaming – but I must admit that I don’t go anywhere near the mindless zerg-balls. As to easy-mode Rangers, it’s yes and no … the meat/shield — aggro/magnet aspect of their pets make them seem that way quite often, but trust me, you’ll get plenty of milage out of your Engi (especially in WvW). And the simple truth is, some classes are simply better than others in certain venues of the game or encounters. And I’m glad it’s that way, because I enjoy the variety. When it’s all said and done, sometimes its not the class: it’s us, the player. Sometimes we simply “click” better with one class over another.

Lol yeah I might have been a secret ranger this whole time. I probably just click better with the ranger class but my engi ego is so stubborn that I’m trying to deny it. I’m fortunate enough to have a ranger wvw pro in my guild that’s a helpful person so I’ll bombard her with the deeper questions when I have the need. You seem like an amicable person so I appreciate you treating me with respect even though I might be stepping on some toes with my tone and statements.

I’ve been hunting for new engi builds and bombs are my favorite kit currently in PvP and PvE. I found a healing tanker bomb build with clerics armor of all things but I’m willing to give it a go, and I’ll try it out with rifle and see how I do on Southsun. My real issue might be that engineers can do so many different things that I don’t want to stick to one thing in the profession to maximize it’s potential. I really think though that we need a natural advantage besides the “Jack of all trades” thing. Maybe with environmental weapons or siege equipment. I know decap engies are jerks so let’s pretend they don’t exist.

The problem of the engineer, that they share with elementalists, is that ANet is paranoid about some high APM player finding “the” rotation and rampaging all over SPVP. End result is that thanks to all the potential skill combinations, each one skill has to be that much weaker than anything most other professions bring to the field.

Ision.3207:

The first mistake you made in your post was that you praised Ranger play and mechanics… just so you know, that is a giant NO NO … when it comes to Rangers, the ONLY thing you are allowed to say is, “pets sux, rangers need more dps” (jk) ;-)

For the record, I have no real complaints about my Ranger in PvE play because the NPCs obediently behave the way I expect or even want them to (such as going after the pet instead of me). I even do fine against the NPCs in WvW and can reliably solo capture supply camps, if given the time and not jumped by other players. The “whittle down” approach that ANet intends for Rangers works just fine in such situations, especially when the NPCs won’t pursue you beyond a given area so you can peel off a few to kill at a time and withdraw if they do too much damage to you. Against other players in WvW or against a clock in a boos fight or speed dungeon, it’s a different story.

Ision.3207:

Engineers are a very nuanced class, and they require greater micro and twitch reflexes than many other classes. Perhaps what you are running into is simply the steeper learning curve of the class.

From what I’ve seen playing alongside Engineers and listening to them discuss builds, weapon and armor choices and play style seem to make a huge different in effectiveness and I’ve seen a player go from being frustrated to being quite effective just by changing their gear and traits and building on a theme (e.g., Perplexity Runes on top of interrupt skills). For players frustrated with Engineers, I would recommend reading through Engineering build thread and spend some time with a build calculator (e.g., http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/) to see what the various build choices mean for the character’s stats. If you’ve already done that, I would recommend keep trying different combinations.

But, yes, some classes are more work than others. Part of the reason I picked a Ranger as my first class (this is the first MMO I’ve played) is that people said it was easy to play in PvE (though they aren’t so easy in WvW). Engineers were not on any easy list I looked at.

One other suggestion is to seek out Engineers and run with them and watch how they play, especially in WvW, boss fights, and dungeons. I’ve learned quite a bit watching other people play certain classes.

Ranger can be easy mode in PvE if your pet can maintain the aggro. I don’t play my ranger much, but I do recall times where mobs would chase me instead and I would have to get into a kite fight with a bow. IMO, kite fighting with engineer bombs is far more satisfying and easier in comparison, especially when being chased by a group of mobs.

I don’t frequent Southsun Cove, but every now and then I do the Karka Queen event + neighbouring events like saving the villages and stuff (the one where an army of banelings chase you and hit like a freight train). It’s definitely a dangerous area, but I wouldn’t feel safer with any other class. The engineer has a lot of utility and if things go south, I can just stealth out of there and try again. Granted, if your pet can sustain the dmg then all you have to do is sit there and auto attack, but that’s no fun

So I dunno. I’ve been playing engineer for over a year now and I’ve dialled in all of the play styles pretty well. I often don’t fear any mob in the game and I always run into a fight regardless of numbers. In the new Battle for LA fight, I often run into the thickest mob cluster (sometimes upwards to 7 mobs) so I can mingle with them. I’ll just kite around and blast them, smoke em out, burn em, confuse em, bomb them some more, etc. I don’t think I could pull that same stunt with any of the other classes and live to collect the loot.

I’m nearly sure OP is trolling…

• Downed Pet heal: It heals good, but at dangerous places, you just stay there meanwhile your pet just dies. We can’t go elswhere like a lot of other class…
• Sustain dmg in pve is Acceptable. Try WWW, they’ll ROFL at you.
• Somehow I meet with Engineers in pvp who just as uncatchable as an Elementalist. Maybe you should retrait.
• As you see, Ranger is highly on number1 at “What’s broken?” list. Check our CDI, it’s getting ridicoulos.

I find it hard to believe you “mastered” the Engineer when you’re dying to PvE mobs.

I’m not dying to PvE mobs. There are a few who can still finish me in downed, but I usually fight versus 3-5 in the same time. Those kill the pets, so I can’t just move a mile away like an elementalist.

RoyalPredator.9163:

I’m nearly sure OP is trolling…

• Downed Pet heal: It heals good, but at dangerous places, you just stay there meanwhile your pet just dies. We can’t go elswhere like a lot of other class…
• Sustain dmg in pve is Acceptable. Try WWW, they’ll ROFL at you.
• Somehow I meet with Engineers in pvp who just as uncatchable as an Elementalist. Maybe you should retrait.
• As you see, Ranger is highly on number1 at “What’s broken?” list. Check our CDI, it’s getting ridicoulos.

Sorry, not trolling. And no I don’t really take the ranger CDI seriously, even though I’ve read a lot of the suggested changes. I’m just really trying to overcome a lot of the thing people are complaining about there as I learn deep things about the ranger class. I do think rangers should get access to rifles for sure, however. And I’m saying that sustain you call acceptable is literally riskless. If I try the same on an engineer, the NPC enemy I’m trying to kill runs back to it’s spawn point and regenerates it’s health so I have to actually fight it.

And though you find some engineers uncatchable, if they get downed, they are done. no cloaking abilities, no movement abilities, and a discount bin heal. I know the traits you speak about for my WvW-only engi, and I feel like a lucky kitten if I can cloak, shrink and get out of CC and rocket boot away, but I cannot spike someone if I use the traits, utilities and armor for that level of survivability. Long story short, if you want to tell me how to play my class, then play it first like I’m doing with the ranger class.

Aegael.6938:

I find it hard to believe you “mastered” the Engineer when you’re dying to PvE mobs.

Thanks buddy. Where’s my “ignore” button at…

Nate.8146:

Ranger can be easy mode in PvE if your pet can maintain the aggro. I don’t play my ranger much, but I do recall times where mobs would chase me instead and I would have to get into a kite fight with a bow. IMO, kite fighting with engineer bombs is far more satisfying and easier in comparison, especially when being chased by a group of mobs.

I don’t frequent Southsun Cove, but every now and then I do the Karka Queen event + neighbouring events like saving the villages and stuff (the one where an army of banelings chase you and hit like a freight train). It’s definitely a dangerous area, but I wouldn’t feel safer with any other class. The engineer has a lot of utility and if things go south, I can just stealth out of there and try again. Granted, if your pet can sustain the dmg then all you have to do is sit there and auto attack, but that’s no fun

So I dunno. I’ve been playing engineer for over a year now and I’ve dialled in all of the play styles pretty well. I often don’t fear any mob in the game and I always run into a fight regardless of numbers. In the new Battle for LA fight, I often run into the thickest mob cluster (sometimes upwards to 7 mobs) so I can mingle with them. I’ll just kite around and blast them, smoke em out, burn em, confuse em, bomb them some more, etc. I don’t think I could pull that same stunt with any of the other classes and live to collect the loot.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply Nate! And yes dedicating a lot more time to ranger allowed me to see how good engineers are in certain aspects. Bombkit AoE is great for trash mobs and tagging via wvw zerg. But I don’t know, I solo a lot of the non-dungeon PvE content and I had to earn it on engineer. I can solo champs now on engi and I feel accomplished. Sure I can run away but can’t all professions? When I solo with my ranger however, I don’t have to think and that’s what upset me enough to make this topic. The only place I feel like I have to earn it in now with ranger is WvW and PvP and that’s why I’m learning it so thoroughly.

But I’d definitely say to everyone requesting buffs to their profession: See how the other half lives before you declare you know what real balance is. I used to hate thieves and necros with a passion (not surprising since I’d lose to them the most), but seeing some of their weaknesses along with their strengths helped me to let go of begging for buffs instead of actually learning how to fight them. I feel the way ranger is currently set up, it’ll keep breeding the kind of player that wants more buffs instead of learning how to play and that really gets me down.

johnsonade.9547:

Aegael.6938:

I find it hard to believe you “mastered” the Engineer when you’re dying to PvE mobs.

Thanks buddy. Where’s my “ignore” button at…

Hes just being honest, you really shouldn’t have any problem PvEing on an Engineer if you have mastered that class. PvE is a joke… I suggest you let go of your pride a tad bit and do some research on your class. Engineer is one of the stronger classes to solo roam when mastered. I’d even argue to say the strongest.

Grimreaper.5370:

johnsonade.9547:

Aegael.6938:

I find it hard to believe you “mastered” the Engineer when you’re dying to PvE mobs.

Thanks buddy. Where’s my “ignore” button at…

Hes just being honest, you really shouldn’t have any problem PvEing on an Engineer if you have mastered that class. PvE is a joke… I suggest you let go of your pride a tad bit and do some research on your class. Engineer is one of the stronger classes to solo roam when mastered. I’d even argue to say the strongest.

Nah, I said I wanted to ignore this guy’s snide jab because he didn’t even fully comprehend what he was replying to like a lot of people usually don’t on the internet. I have no issue with mobs. I said I took down two veteran karas at once on my ragdoll ranger without doing a thing but cycling cooldowns thoughtlessly. If I solo a veteran karka on my engineer (I can and do regularly) I feel accomplished because Southsun is a difficult place. It’s a challenging area. Those monsters are designed as such. On my ranger, however, it’s not difficult at all.

I’d also like to say I appreciate your advice, but how about the both of you play engineer and do the things that I described in the topic and then get back to me on how much I should learn about my profession. I’m doing that with ranger currently. My money is literally where my mouth is. No takers? Alright, I’ll be moving on then.