Guild Wars 2

It is simple.

• A option to never target AI from the choice of “Auto-target never target minions ever even if it is the only thing there.” to “Never ever target minions ever”.
• A easy deselect button for clones.

After this, AI builds will beg to be buffed hard. I think that the problem is the UI, not the build itself that is strong. Auto-target still select minions automatically for me and it is hard to select tiny little Asura.

An easy deselect button for clones? You mean a button to unselect anything? Because I’m fairly certain clones are kinda supposed to be annoying and confusing – that’s their job after all.

But… with clones, isn’t the whole point to make the enemy think they’re you? If they can be trivially detargeted with a button, how would that work?

Target selectio with tab already favors the player. No problems there.

The problem is the kittened easy to play specs that pay off. Stuff like MM, or aoe condi spam. Now solve that, thanks.

Is less OP still OP? Does OP mean it’s good? So lost with the way OP just gets thrown around. What happened to underpowered, balanced, and overpowered when used to gauge something.

Carighan.6758:

But… with clones, isn’t the whole point to make the enemy think they’re you? If they can be trivially detargeted with a button, how would that work?

You search for the real one, deselect the current clone, and then click on the real mesmer.

Cygnus.6903:

Target selectio with tab already favors the player. No problems there.

The problem is the kittened easy to play specs that pay off. Stuff like MM, or aoe condi spam. Now solve that, thanks.

Target selection does not favor the player.

There are many times that I targeted the minion instead of the player even if the player is in front of me.

There needs to have an option for zero minions.

a better target system would be indeed nice to have.

its sometimes still frustrating to fight against a mesmer with a single target profession.
if the fight takes longer you can eat much damage in the time you have to
search, retarget and dodge in the same time things like berserker clones.

at least i would also like a option to give my mouse a different color
and a option to make the target symbol biger or also a different color :P

runeblade.7514:

Cygnus.6903:

Target selectio with tab already favors the player. No problems there.

The problem is the kittened easy to play specs that pay off. Stuff like MM, or aoe condi spam. Now solve that, thanks.

Target selection does not favor the player.

Step 1: face player with AI allies.

Step 2: hit “Tab”

Congratulations, you are now targeting the player or a Mesmer clone. Stop clicking on things.

The people saying the system is already biased are correct btw.

Do keep in mind it’s a bias though. The tab-target searches by proximity, going further out the more you tab. The search seems to “look ahead” a bit before targetting an AI companion though, to see whether a player is there.

runeblade.7514:

You search for the real one, deselect the current clone, and then click on the real mesmer.

Why would you need a button for the deselect then? Why not just, you know, select the Mesmer?

You need to be able to be tricked with mesmers.. As much as I would evangelize their overpoweredness, you can’t remove their main class mechanic.

My recommendation? Just as you said, tab doesn’t go to minions, or ranger pet (if that matters), increase teleport cool down for mesmer (seriously, mes has teleports, illusion swapping, invisibility, and a pretty good heal.. With now bugged AI damage lol)

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

runeblade.7514:

Cygnus.6903:

Target selectio with tab already favors the player. No problems there.

The problem is the kittened easy to play specs that pay off. Stuff like MM, or aoe condi spam. Now solve that, thanks.

Target selection does not favor the player.

Step 1: face player with AI allies.

Step 2: hit “Tab”

Congratulations, you are now targeting the player or a Mesmer clone. Stop clicking on things.

Or:

Step 1: Let auto-attack select the player instead of AI allies.

Coongratulation, You are now targeting the player! No more clicking on things.

Eve.1580:

You need to be able to be tricked with mesmers.. As much as I would evangelize their overpoweredness, you can’t remove their main class mechanic.

Mesmer clones already get different treatment with Call/Take target, from what I have seen, no reason auto-target could not be made to include clones, but not pets and minions.

Eve.1580:

My recommendation? Just as you said, tab doesn’t go to minions, or ranger pet (if that matters), increase teleport cool down for mesmer (seriously, mes has teleports, illusion swapping, invisibility, and a pretty good heal.. With now bugged AI damage lol)

AI damage is fixed for nearly a week now. Not been logging in much?
And you did follow the recent PvP tournament, right? Most underplayed class? Never contributed to any fight? Mesmers!

For a reason, btw. While we can be really good in anti-highwaymen-warfare in WvW, that’s all we can do in PvP. In Zergs, in highwayman groups, in sPvP, we’re not powerful enough and don’t bring enough to the table to help our team.

i find this incredibly hilarious . if only the op were to once play a mm they would know how bad some of the times the minion ai really is . and how bad you might ask ? like standing around while having a staring contest with a tree , while you the minion master gets mollywopped by npcs or players while you die .

Carighan.6758:

Eve.1580:

My recommendation? Just as you said, tab doesn’t go to minions, or ranger pet (if that matters), increase teleport cool down for mesmer (seriously, mes has teleports, illusion swapping, invisibility, and a pretty good heal.. With now bugged AI damage lol)

AI damage is fixed for nearly a week now. Not been logging in much?
And you did follow the recent PvP tournament, right? Most underplayed class? Never contributed to any fight? Mesmers!

For a reason, btw. While we can be really good in anti-highwaymen-warfare in WvW, that’s all we can do in PvP. In Zergs, in highwayman groups, in sPvP, we’re not powerful enough and don’t bring enough to the table to help our team.

I love the leap between not being as used in tournament in legends that much, and not being viable at all in sPvP? What is balanced on a normal level and what is balanced at the highest possible level (the top .001% of players) is two completely different things. Have you played Team Tournament, or SingleQ.. You can’t pretend like mesmer is not used.

I know I know, don’t complain about Mesmers. I’m sorry, but Mesmers need some serious balancing, and HAS needed it since you guys started playing forum warriors when the game first came out. You have two of the best elites in the game (TW, Moa), a crazy amount of teleports and invis, incredibly good damage ability, and an incredibly easy time getting out of combat when in trouble.. You guys deserve a high skill cap, because of your difficulty curve, but my criticism is that it is too higher on a normal player’s level.

Oh, I understand that even the gravest of imbalances are usually in the area of tilting combat by 10% at best, and usually less (since most are decided by circumstances like initiative, surprise and CDs).

But given those constraints, Mesmers are rarely a good choice for your team. Sure, you won’t feel bad playing as a Mesmer. But if you want to get organized, you need to know the limitations a Mesmer imposes on your strategy, unless it is to hunt the highwaymen in WvW. Because that is something we do better than anyone else. The same can ofc work in sPvP, especially hotjoin, as players often play highwayman-like specs or try them out.

I don’t really see a higher skill cap, though. Sorry. Your point would be that at a normal level of play, we actually perform better. That wouldn’t be indicative of an easier class, the average player can perform really well with it compared to other players.

Rather, I think this is what happens:

1. At low levels of play, players genuinely get confused by our “trickery”. By what is supposed to be our class mechanic. This makes Mesmers very strong, or rather, the enemy really weak because they waste so much time and skills on clones, on the wrong moments or get confused by things like Moa Morph having different abilities.
2. At medium levels of play, players have learned to see through our illusions, and have improved with their classes. As a result of Mesmers being quite difficult to play well (compared to say, Guardians), Mesmers slightly fall behind at this point.
3. At highest levels of play, Mesmers are still behind by that small margin of their class design being useless. However at this level this actually starts to be a real problem as the teams and groups will optimize and cut every corner.

Eve.1580:

As much as I would evangelize their overpowerednes

Evangelize? What?

Carighan.6758:

Oh, I understand that even the gravest of imbalances are usually in the area of tilting combat by 10% at best, and usually less (since most are decided by circumstances like initiative, surprise and CDs).

But given those constraints, Mesmers are rarely a good choice for your team. Sure, you won’t feel bad playing as a Mesmer. But if you want to get organized, you need to know the limitations a Mesmer imposes on your strategy, unless it is to hunt the highwaymen in WvW. Because that is something we do better than anyone else. The same can ofc work in sPvP, especially hotjoin, as players often play highwayman-like specs or try them out.

I don’t really see a higher skill cap, though. Sorry. Your point would be that at a normal level of play, we actually perform better. That wouldn’t be indicative of an easier class, the average player can perform really well with it compared to other players.

Rather, I think this is what happens:

1. At low levels of play, players genuinely get confused by our “trickery”. By what is supposed to be our class mechanic. This makes Mesmers very strong, or rather, the enemy really weak because they waste so much time and skills on clones, on the wrong moments or get confused by things like Moa Morph having different abilities.
2. At medium levels of play, players have learned to see through our illusions, and have improved with their classes. As a result of Mesmers being quite difficult to play well (compared to say, Guardians), Mesmers slightly fall behind at this point.
3. At highest levels of play, Mesmers are still behind by that small margin of their class design being useless. However at this level this actually starts to be a real problem as the teams and groups will optimize and cut every corner.

That’s odd, because Mesmers found their way onto almost every team in the ToL, including both of the teams that made it into the finals.

Xahz.8406:

That’s odd, because Mesmers found their way onto almost every team in the ToL, including both of the teams that made it into the finals.

Last I saw stats they were the least-picked class, and with a noticeable margin. :o

Carighan.6758:

Xahz.8406:

That’s odd, because Mesmers found their way onto almost every team in the ToL, including both of the teams that made it into the finals.

Last I saw stats they were the least-picked class, and with a noticeable margin. :o

You are correct.
If the mesmer was so useful then why this.

EverythingEnds.4261:

EverythingEnds.4261:

So, I’m watching the Tournament of Legends atm, my impressions are:

Guardian is in every team (ofc)
Engi is also extremly popular.

Almost no team without a Warrior did win.
Almost no team with a Mesmer won.

Lets put some misconceptions to rest, i just finished going through the EU ToL.

First off, Guardians are not in every team. Two games a team did not have a single Guardian. They got destroyed both those games however.

Secondly, Engineer is not extremely popular. Infact its the 2nd least popular profession. Only Mesmer was played less then Engineer.

Third, Warriors not being in a team didnt lead to a big deviation in wins or losses.
8x a team did not pick a Warrior, and 5x that team lost. Its there, but not a massive swing.

Fourth, Mesmers didnt lead to an big swing in losing matches. 9x did a Team play with a Mesmer against a team with no Mesmer. In 5 of those games the team with the Mesmer won.
If anything, statistically speaking, Mesmer have a better “winning edge” then Warriors.

There were 19 games. With 10 player slots per game (5 per team) that means we have a total have 190 classes picked. If we see all profession picked evenly, we’d see 23,75 for every single profession.
Use this number as a gauge, picked more then 23.75x means the profession is over-represented. Less and its underrepresented.

Now for the popular professions:

1# Guardians
There have been 19 matches, and we’ve seen 40 Guardian picks. That average out at more then 1 Guardian per team. And indeed several times we’ve seen 2 guardian picks.
Only twice did we see a game where one team did not have a Guardian, this team lost both games by a significant margin.

2# Warriors
Almost as popular as Guardians, we’ve seen 37 Warrior picks through all the games. Thats just under the 1 warrior, per game, per team average. Sometimes Warriors didnt get picked, sometimes picked twice in a team. A lot of Hambows btw, a lot.

3# Thieves
A thief was picked 26x. Making it the 3th most played profession upto this point.

4# Rangers
Maybe it will surprise some people, because a lot of people are convinced that rangers are garbage. But it was actually picked 21x, barely beating out Necro in popularity.

5# Necromancers
A close follow up to Rangers, it was picked 20x.

6# Elementalists
Ele’s got picked 18x total through the ToL so far. Making them one of the least popular professions.

7# Engineers
Despite what people seem to think, not a popular profession so far at all. Picked a meager 15x it is the second least favorite pick.

8# Mesmers
Picked an underwhelming 13x. Despite seemingly not contributed to an increase in team losses, its obviously the least picked profession upto this point.

explain to me why mesmer was picked so few times by people that actually pvp in the higher tiers? and is OP
BUT GUARDIAN AND WARRIOR JUST FLOAT ON BY AND NO ONE BATS AN EYE

To add to that Every team that DID NOT HAVE A GUARDIAN LOST.

Rangers wish our pets were as useless as an mm’s

Just saying

Mm is ridiculous in soloq

MM is strong in soloQ in the same way that all bunker builds are; it can sit on a point and it takes significant effort to dislodge it. If the team is smart, they simply ignore the point, or zerg it down with multiple players (note that MM, unlike actual bunkers, melts instantly against 2-3+ players), aka they use smart rotational play (MMs are also as mobile as a dead turtle). However this is difficult in soloQ, especially lower levels, where people have this idea that they have to constantly 1v1 that build that’s already destroyed them 3 times in a row. Its not that MM is strong itself, but that the intelligence/team play required to beat it doesn’t exist in soloQ in general

If you want to make MM take a bit more skill though, simply keep loading more onto the active skills, a la bone minions (which are the best non-elite minion and awful without landing the active), and increase the visibility of things like Rigor Mortis and Charge, which are very hard to see and react to.

Carighan.6758:

Oh, I understand that even the gravest of imbalances are usually in the area of tilting combat by 10% at best, and usually less (since most are decided by circumstances like initiative, surprise and CDs).

But given those constraints, Mesmers are rarely a good choice for your team. Sure, you won’t feel bad playing as a Mesmer. But if you want to get organized, you need to know the limitations a Mesmer imposes on your strategy, unless it is to hunt the highwaymen in WvW. Because that is something we do better than anyone else. The same can ofc work in sPvP, especially hotjoin, as players often play highwayman-like specs or try them out.

I don’t really see a higher skill cap, though. Sorry. Your point would be that at a normal level of play, we actually perform better. That wouldn’t be indicative of an easier class, the average player can perform really well with it compared to other players.

Rather, I think this is what happens:

1. At low levels of play, players genuinely get confused by our “trickery”. By what is supposed to be our class mechanic. This makes Mesmers very strong, or rather, the enemy really weak because they waste so much time and skills on clones, on the wrong moments or get confused by things like Moa Morph having different abilities.
2. At medium levels of play, players have learned to see through our illusions, and have improved with their classes. As a result of Mesmers being quite difficult to play well (compared to say, Guardians), Mesmers slightly fall behind at this point.
3. At highest levels of play, Mesmers are still behind by that small margin of their class design being useless. However at this level this actually starts to be a real problem as the teams and groups will optimize and cut every corner.

I have been practically rubbing my face on a Mesmer hitting tab and its targeting his clones behind me……………. if I go to the trouble of clicking a dodging teleporting target with a practically invisible cursor then they just trolololol stealth and it starts all over again there is an issue with targeting mesmers -.-

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

Carighan.6758:

Oh, I understand that even the gravest of imbalances are usually in the area of tilting combat by 10% at best, and usually less (since most are decided by circumstances like initiative, surprise and CDs).

But given those constraints, Mesmers are rarely a good choice for your team. Sure, you won’t feel bad playing as a Mesmer. But if you want to get organized, you need to know the limitations a Mesmer imposes on your strategy, unless it is to hunt the highwaymen in WvW. Because that is something we do better than anyone else. The same can ofc work in sPvP, especially hotjoin, as players often play highwayman-like specs or try them out.

I don’t really see a higher skill cap, though. Sorry. Your point would be that at a normal level of play, we actually perform better. That wouldn’t be indicative of an easier class, the average player can perform really well with it compared to other players.

Rather, I think this is what happens:

1. At low levels of play, players genuinely get confused by our “trickery”. By what is supposed to be our class mechanic. This makes Mesmers very strong, or rather, the enemy really weak because they waste so much time and skills on clones, on the wrong moments or get confused by things like Moa Morph having different abilities.
2. At medium levels of play, players have learned to see through our illusions, and have improved with their classes. As a result of Mesmers being quite difficult to play well (compared to say, Guardians), Mesmers slightly fall behind at this point.
3. At highest levels of play, Mesmers are still behind by that small margin of their class design being useless. However at this level this actually starts to be a real problem as the teams and groups will optimize and cut every corner.

I have been practically rubbing my face on a Mesmer hitting tab and its targeting his clones behind me……………. if I go to the trouble of clicking a dodging teleporting target with a practically invisible cursor then they just trolololol stealth and it starts all over again there is an issue with targeting mesmers -.-

…..

1. At low levels of play, players genuinely get confused by our “trickery”. By what is supposed to be our class mechanic. This makes Mesmers very strong, or rather, the enemy really weak because they waste so much time and skills on clones, on the wrong moments or get confused by things like Moa Morph having different abilities.

Bad players will do bad things that make the game seem imbalanced. I remember taking 2 minutes to put together a 100b cheese build that wrecked really bad players because they wouldn’t save any of their stunbreaks (or wouldn’t have them in the first place), and so at will I could stun/100b them. It would never, ever work against someone decent, and it was an awful build, it just played off of people’s inexperience.

Not to mention, Ranger/Mesmer excluded because they can’t not have AI, AI builds have never done well at a competitive level. They are either incredibly weak, or very easy to play around with team play.