Guild Wars 2

Post changes, how come a necro can engage with full life force that they built up pre fight, yet warriors have to build adrenaline from 0 always after the changes.

nerf death shroud if they get to do that. if any class gets the mechanic changed, shouldnt all classes tthat use the mechanic of building up “x” in a bar to power them up pre fight be changed?

profession balance, is the forum you want mate

i dont expect it to be changed . i dont really have the will to start a protest either. Id perfer it was changed, but I dont count on it.

just seeing what people here think.

JJBigs.8456:

i dont expect it to be changed . i dont really have the will to start a protest either. Id perfer it was changed, but I dont count on it.

just seeing what people here think.

Again.

Wrong forum section.

also. It won’t be changed because it’s TOTALLY different mechanic. With totally different skills, and necro also have a much harder time to fill their life force.

Oh and hey, we can’t heal while we’re using it >.>

You’re just upset your war might actually be harder to play rather than go to, for everything.

I posted in your other thread.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Necro-Is-Unfair-to-Warrior-FGJ/first#post4368662

Please merge these threads, its basically the same thing…I don’t know why 2 were started.

why do 2 totally unrelated things need to be balanced against eachother.. i heard the same argument about ileap being balanced against pindown. as if a warriors skillset and a mesmers skill set should be the same.. its just bad logic.

I think it would be fair to have life force slowly drain until it gets down to ~x% when out of combat, IMO Life Force is only really an issue if a necro farms LF out in WvW from PvE mobs and then start a fight with near-full life force.

Grimreaper.5370:

I think it would be fair to have life force slowly drain until it gets down to ~25% when out of combat.

What would then be the point of gaining Lifeforce for kills?

Deathshroud is a far more complex mechanic then adrenaline is. A degeneration of Lifeforce outside of combat would mean that Anet would have to completly rework Deathshroud, which by the way would probably for the better in the long run for necromancer.

In my opinion, it would be really nice for necro life force to return to either full or empty, or any set value whenever they ooc. As it is now it makes many small scale fights predetermined by how much life force the necro has.

Full life force necro is very much over powered, however no life force necro is underpowered. So rarely when you engage against a necro is the fight even remotely balanced making no one happy win or lose.

Naturally everything about them will need to be rebalanced if they enacted this, either buffs if it drains, or nerfs if it fills but regardless I think it would be for the best.

It is mind boggling how anyone could even attempt to compare the two mechanics. Life force and adrenaline are not even close to being the same and have completely different effects.

They both use bars… that’s about as far as it goes in terms of similarity. I don’t even know how you could confuse the 3 adrenaline level bars with the solo life force bar on necro.

Also, adrenaline used to immediately drain after battle. It was ninja-broken without notice to not drain 6-8 months ago. I have always played under the impression that this was an overlooked bug, and I’m glad it’s finally being fixed.

this would work and would be good (fighting necros with full life force, blarf) only if necros get massive revamp

without that, it breaks the class

on second thought, it would be cool to see how would necro work if life force was easier and faster to generate but get drained when ooc (also requires deathshroud revamp)

When Necro gets to deal a massive burst of damage with full life force is when I would support the OP.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

When Necro gets to deal a massive burst of damage with full life force is when I would support the OP.

Me too except for a small caveat. That being we should get our healing traits (and any incoming healing), utilities and elites usable while we are in DS.

Hmm, well I guess that would just be a warrior then.. nevermind.

JJBigs.8456:

nerf death shroud if they get to do that. if any class gets the mechanic changed, shouldnt all classes tthat use the mechanic of building up “x” in a bar to power them up pre fight be changed?

What kind of reasoning is that?

Theyre different class mechanics. Theyre similar, but that doesnt mean they have to be the same in every aspect.

I would be fine with life force degenerating/regenerating out of combat to a value somewhere in the middle tho. the difference between 0% and 100% is too big.

We should totally have thieves lose initiative while out of combat, right?
I mean, Mesmers start with no illusions and have to build them up to cast their shatters.
(sarcasm)

Esplen.3940:

We should totally have thieves lose initiative while out of combat, right?
I mean, Mesmers start with no illusions and have to build them up to cast their shatters.
(sarcasm)

Don’t even joke about that. You should joke about making all Warrior’s skills as Adrenaline based, meaning they can’t use a skill without building up adrenaline — just like how it was in GW1.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Esplen.3940:

We should totally have thieves lose initiative while out of combat, right?
I mean, Mesmers start with no illusions and have to build them up to cast their shatters.
(sarcasm)

Don’t even joke about that. You should joke about making all Warrior’s skills as Adrenaline based, meaning they can’t use a skill without building up adrenaline — just like how it was in GW1.

Or make thieves actually make use of combos instead of just having auto attack chains. Would incentivize having the ends of the chain be more powerful than the beginning… cough mainhand dagger cough

I agree necros lifeforce should be changed. It should regen back to 100% when out of combat.

JJBigs.8456:

Post changes, how come a necro can engage with full life force that they built up pre fight, yet warriors have to build adrenaline from 0 always after the changes.

nerf death shroud if they get to do that. if any class gets the mechanic changed, shouldnt all classes tthat use the mechanic of building up “x” in a bar to power them up pre fight be changed?

Necros can’t gain Life Force as quick as a warrior can gain Adrenaline. This will never happen unless they boost the amount of Life Force gained from skills and weapons.

Adrenaline = life force

Armor = -400 armor

Stability = ping pong ball

Healing signet = cant imagine anything so disgusting

I apologize on behalve of all necromancers for exploiting a feature so we can have a fighting chance in our first confrontation in spvp.

Now, if the balance team would let necromancers start with 4k lifeforce and cut the exploit. this would not happen.

PS: If the balance team tested the necromancer without full lifeforce… ….

PS II: You know warriors are going to immune to soft cc next patch right? no more chill to mess with your recharges.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

When Necro gets to deal a massive burst of damage with full life force is when I would support the OP.

This and the ability of disengaging a fight when the necros health drops like a brick.

This adrenaline change should have been like this from launch if you ask me.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

PS II: You know warriors are going to immune to soft cc next patch right? no more chill to mess with your recharges.

Is this true? I couldn’t find anything about that. That seems a little bit unfair to my “chill out guyz” build.

http://dulfy.net/2014/08/08/gw2-ready-up-upcoming-warrior-and-thief-class-changes/

I admit it’s on Rampage, but still

the only problem I have with lifeforce is the fact that they can gain lifeforce off of ambients in WvW. Then again I also play a necromancer and I am guilty of doing this all the time lol.

killahmayne.9518:

the only problem I have with lifeforce is the fact that they can gain lifeforce off of ambients in WvW. Then again I also play a necromancer and I am guilty of doing this all the time lol.

Even changing that would mean a complete rework of Deathshroud. Deathshroud was always meant as a similiar mechanic to soul reaping in gw1 (it gave the necromancer energy for deaths). It is supposed to become stronger with deaths but this causes massive problems for necromancer since without things dieing necromancer can be rather Lifeforce starved and with massive deaths necros have nearly infinite Lifeforce. Yes there are skills/traits that make Lf generation independent from deaths but all this makes Deathshroud a rather hard mechanic to balance properly…

Most Power necros will NOT take a Warrior even with full Life Fiorce bar, thats how big the diffrence is between the 2 classes on Power Builds, and on Condi Necs u dont have to worrie about DS-Sustain or Dmg. And if the Warrior is against all odds loosing you just see that wich we learned is the most common thing in WvW these days: the disengage or Forrest Gump-Warrior….

The nr1 Class complaining always baffles me

zaxon.6819:

why do 2 totally unrelated things need to be balanced against eachother.. i heard the same argument about ileap being balanced against pindown. as if a warriors skillset and a mesmers skill set should be the same.. its just bad logic.

Because people are using other classes balance to justify their want for nerfs to warriors.

Fair is fair.

At least in the case of the Adrenaline nerf, that’s really because ANet stated in a Ready Up that Adrenaline management was supposed to be a weakness of the profession. But, given that it is currently impossible to waste it, it wasn’t functioning as such.

This change is necessary to make Warriors have an actual weakness that they are intended to have. Now adrenaline management will become much, much more important. Of the other three resource management professions (Mesmer, Thief, Necromancer), wasting their resources was a very real concern since launch.

Muchacho.2390:

killahmayne.9518:

the only problem I have with lifeforce is the fact that they can gain lifeforce off of ambients in WvW. Then again I also play a necromancer and I am guilty of doing this all the time lol.

Even changing that would mean a complete rework of Deathshroud. Deathshroud was always meant as a similiar mechanic to soul reaping in gw1 (it gave the necromancer energy for deaths). It is supposed to become stronger with deaths but this causes massive problems for necromancer since without things dieing necromancer can be rather Lifeforce starved and with massive deaths necros have nearly infinite Lifeforce. Yes there are skills/traits that make Lf generation independent from deaths but all this makes Deathshroud a rather hard mechanic to balance properly…

I think you misunderstand. I don’t have a problem with Necros gaining lifeforce on deaths of PvE mobs, and other players. But from little fuzzy rabbits running around.

killahmayne.9518:

Muchacho.2390:

killahmayne.9518:

the only problem I have with lifeforce is the fact that they can gain lifeforce off of ambients in WvW. Then again I also play a necromancer and I am guilty of doing this all the time lol.

Even changing that would mean a complete rework of Deathshroud. Deathshroud was always meant as a similiar mechanic to soul reaping in gw1 (it gave the necromancer energy for deaths). It is supposed to become stronger with deaths but this causes massive problems for necromancer since without things dieing necromancer can be rather Lifeforce starved and with massive deaths necros have nearly infinite Lifeforce. Yes there are skills/traits that make Lf generation independent from deaths but all this makes Deathshroud a rather hard mechanic to balance properly…

I think you misunderstand. I don’t have a problem with Necros gaining lifeforce on deaths of PvE mobs, and other players. But from little fuzzy rabbits running around.

It makes sense though, after all little fuzzy rabbits ARE alive….

if I was gaining LF from hitting a gate, or a pile of rubble, something just isnt right there.

Mesmer getting stuck in a rock with swap: $12.00
Thief using withdraw to their death: $20.00
Warrior complaining about someone else being OP: Priceless.

pdavis.8031:

killahmayne.9518:

Muchacho.2390:

killahmayne.9518:

the only problem I have with lifeforce is the fact that they can gain lifeforce off of ambients in WvW. Then again I also play a necromancer and I am guilty of doing this all the time lol.

Even changing that would mean a complete rework of Deathshroud. Deathshroud was always meant as a similiar mechanic to soul reaping in gw1 (it gave the necromancer energy for deaths). It is supposed to become stronger with deaths but this causes massive problems for necromancer since without things dieing necromancer can be rather Lifeforce starved and with massive deaths necros have nearly infinite Lifeforce. Yes there are skills/traits that make Lf generation independent from deaths but all this makes Deathshroud a rather hard mechanic to balance properly…

I think you misunderstand. I don’t have a problem with Necros gaining lifeforce on deaths of PvE mobs, and other players. But from little fuzzy rabbits running around.

It makes sense though, after all little fuzzy rabbits ARE alive….

if I was gaining LF from hitting a gate, or a pile of rubble, something just isnt right there.

Life Force is something that is supposed to built up through battle and carried over from fight to fight. A necro is supposed to be stronger the more fights it survives, a kind of snowballing effect. Hence the word “attrition” which is supposed to associated with the Necro.

I hardly call one shotting random rabbits a “battle”.

Life force needs a huge QoL pass, it should have something like a set passive increase in our out of combat and the amount built up should be visible to enemy players as well. Maybe we’ll see it in 2018?

fellyn.5083:

zaxon.6819:

why do 2 totally unrelated things need to be balanced against eachother.. i heard the same argument about ileap being balanced against pindown. as if a warriors skillset and a mesmers skill set should be the same.. its just bad logic.

Because people are using other classes balance to justify their want for nerfs to warriors.

Fair is fair.

You do realize that it only works in the context of the under powered professions pointing out the clearly over powered ones. The over powered ones cannot point out similarities between professions and cry nerf at the under powered ones.

Sounds like someone is upset that they will go from extremely over powered to simply moderately over powered…………….

You really are proud of this trolling, aren’t you ?

NinjaEd.3946:

Mesmer getting stuck in a rock with swap: $12.00
Thief using withdraw to their death: $20.00
Warrior complaining about someone else being OP: Priceless.

Yea this change means they actualy have to manage their adrenaline, instead of spam away without penalties.

shimmerless.4560:

Life force needs a huge QoL pass, it should have something like a set passive increase in our out of combat and the amount built up should be visible to enemy players as well. Maybe we’ll see it in 2018?

Another idea is to let the Signet of Undeath passive tick both in and out of combat. I believe it takes 5 minutes to get 100% life force from it. It would be a sort of underpowered Healing Signet for life force.

fellyn.5083:

zaxon.6819:

why do 2 totally unrelated things need to be balanced against eachother.. i heard the same argument about ileap being balanced against pindown. as if a warriors skillset and a mesmers skill set should be the same.. its just bad logic.

Because people are using other classes balance to justify their want for nerfs to warriors.

Fair is fair.

Hear, hear!

I don’t think it’s fair to compare the two mechanics. However, I do think that DS is a mechanic that really needs to be reworked. You should be able to gain LF faster but also have it drain when out of combat and not last as long. When you don’t have LF it feels agonizing, but when you’re on another class fighting a Necro with full LF it’s not fun as well. Neither party is satisfied in the end.

Of course, this would be a huge undertaking. One of the balancing factors of power Necros is how long it takes to gain LF. If that was made easier and the current damage numbers remained unchanged then chances are it would become OP as hell. It seems like it would be a massive undertaking to get it to where it’s both fun to use and not be broken.

Offair.2563:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

When Necro gets to deal a massive burst of damage with full life force is when I would support the OP.

This and the ability of disengaging a fight when the necros health drops like a brick.

This adrenaline change should have been like this from launch if you ask me.

I believe it was, unless we’re talking about the F1 skill.. in which case, yes, I agree.

Another thing that’s always super bugged me (feel free to call me out on this) is that the death shroud bar on the party window has nothing to distinguish it from regular health. When you have a Nec teammate it’s often really hard to tell if they’re in a bad spot and need help or not.

dancingmonkey.4902:

fellyn.5083:

zaxon.6819:

why do 2 totally unrelated things need to be balanced against eachother.. i heard the same argument about ileap being balanced against pindown. as if a warriors skillset and a mesmers skill set should be the same.. its just bad logic.

Because people are using other classes balance to justify their want for nerfs to warriors.

Fair is fair.

You do realize that it only works in the context of the under powered professions pointing out the clearly over powered ones. The over powered ones cannot point out similarities between professions and cry nerf at the under powered ones.

Sounds like someone is upset that they will go from extremely over powered to simply moderately over powered…………….

It doesn’t matter. Trying to use something completely irrelevant to a specific class doesn’t exactly work when you’re trying to achieve balance.

Besides that it’s mostly whiners on the forum who think warriors are extremely OP. They show up here after getting killed by a warrior or two (because they are the most played class so running into good ones is common) and complain about how strong warriors are. All the while assuming they’re definitely the best player in the game so they shouldn’t be getting killed by anything short of a nuclear explosion and never consider that perhaps, they aren’t as good as they think they are.

Sounds like some one is happy warriors will become easy kills again. Because that’s balance.

What’s next on the “to complain about” list? Guardians?