Guild Wars 2

I’m a skullcrack warrior and I can hold my own against most thieves. But with the new adrenaline loss on out of combat, the thieves can take advantage of this and reset the fight by going out of combat and make me lose all my adrenaline. Skullcrack builds rely heavily on burst skills to win fights. And thieves are master of escaping and resetting fights so they can easily drain my adrenaline. How can I counter it? Beserker stance no longer grants full adrenaline, and if I take up Healing surge and rebuilt my adrenaline, he could just reset the fight again.

if they had to run away to reset then who cares, you won anyway.

Thievs ARE supposed to be a nuisance tho, you do understand?

if they reset the fight, then reengaging would be like starting the fight from scratch again, right? for both sides. it’s not like the thief is the only one benefiting from a reset. the whole idea of adrenaline is not carrying an advantage you earned from a previous fight into the next one.

i’m not sure i see the problem, especially since there are warrior builds that are better at bailing from fights than any thief build.

Warrior got nerf, they stare at Thief. Mesmer got nerf, they stare at Thief. When Thief got nerf, it is for the sake of the game.

If you go up against a thief kittenets the fight till you are dead, there isn’t much you can do anyways. If you don’t have trouble with thieves now it’s because they’re letting you kill them.

BrunoBRS.5178:

if they reset the fight, then reengaging would be like starting the fight from scratch again, right? for both sides. it’s not like the thief is the only one benefiting from a reset. the whole idea of adrenaline is not carrying an advantage you earned from a previous fight into the next one.

i’m not sure i see the problem, especially since there are warrior builds that are better at bailing from fights than any thief build.

Initiative disagrees.

Edit: If this is pvp though, I don’t see the problem.

Maybe you should just deal with it and learn to effectively prepare your burst without a simple press of F1.

Also another example of “Nerf X because its hard for me to kill them”

I love how everyone is pointing at thieves this patch when in reality we didn’t get that many buffs.

I enjoyed reading this thread

Monoman.2068:

BrunoBRS.5178:

if they reset the fight, then reengaging would be like starting the fight from scratch again, right? for both sides. it’s not like the thief is the only one benefiting from a reset. the whole idea of adrenaline is not carrying an advantage you earned from a previous fight into the next one.

i’m not sure i see the problem, especially since there are warrior builds that are better at bailing from fights than any thief build.

Initiative disagrees.

if the thief is just waiting for ini to refill, that’s not really reseting, is it? you won’t lose adrenaline, and neither of you will go back to full health, the former of which is the point of the thread.

I don’t think you guys are grasping the situation. A skullcrack warrior will be at a big disadvantage in the beginning of the fight as he has no adrenaline build up for his skullcrack. Therefore, the thief can dish out a lot of damage while the warrior tries to build up his adrenaline. Now once the warrior reaches max adrenaline, the thief can simply disengage the fight which will cause the warrior to lose his adrenaline out of combat, then thief re-engages right away and tries to finish off the warrior who has probably blown all his utility skills. The warrior will never get the chance to use his burst skill if the thief exploit the “out of combat, warriors lose adrenaline” change. I hope I made this scenario clearer and why the adrenaline change will kill off certain warrior builds like the rifle warriors as well.

Doon.2364:

I don’t think you guys are grasping the situation. A skullcrack warrior will be at a big disadvantage in the beginning of the fight as he has no adrenaline build up for his skullcrack. Therefore, the thief can dish out a lot of damage while the warrior tries to build up his adrenaline. Now once the warrior reaches max adrenaline, the thief can simply disengage the fight which will cause the warrior to lose his adrenaline out of combat, then thief re-engages right away and tries to finish off the warrior who has probably blown all his utility skills. The warrior will never get the chance to use his burst skill if the thief exploit the “out of combat, warriors lose adrenaline” change. I hope I made this scenario clearer and why the adrenaline change will kill off certain warrior builds like the rifle warriors as well.

if he’s “reseting right away”, then his utilities are also on cooldown. moreover, neither of you will have fully recovered, but assuming you have, isn’t it kind of your fault that you feel you’re at such a big disadvantage for simply not having access to one incredibly strong skill right off the bat?

i think you’re seeing the problem the other way around. it’s not that warriors will have a disadvantage after the patch, it’s that they have an advantage now. it’s the whole point of the change/nerf to adrenaline. something they should only have access halfway through the fight, they were carrying over from unrelated previous fights.

warriors will have to build with adrenaline generation in mind. embrace it, and try to think of ways to adapt. maybe pop your berzerker stance early in the fight for quick adrenaline gain, so you can skullcrack the thief before he has a chance to reset.

Doon.2364:

I’m a skullcrack warrior and I can hold my own against most thieves. But with the new adrenaline loss on out of combat, the thieves can take advantage of this and reset the fight by going out of combat and make me lose all my adrenaline. Skullcrack builds rely heavily on burst skills to win fights. And thieves are master of escaping and resetting fights so they can easily drain my adrenaline. How can I counter it? Beserker stance no longer grants full adrenaline, and if I take up Healing surge and rebuilt my adrenaline, he could just reset the fight again.

welcome to the world of powernecro’s.

In my opinion, once your making threads complaining about how one specific profession will have an advantage over you, you have kind of really started grasping at straws.

Just ask engineers about fighting necros (engies have the least congi removal)

Just as necros about fighting any build with CC (no vigor, stability, and long cool downs on stun breakers)

Just asked thieves about being revealed by rangers and soon to be engineers

Just ask guardian about fighting poison spam builds (they have low HP base, and are designed to make that up with consistent heals)

dancingmonkey.4902:

In my opinion, once your making threads complaining about how one specific profession will have an advantage over you, you have kind of really started grasping at straws.

Just ask engineers about fighting necros (engies have the least congi removal)

Just as necros about fighting any build with CC (no vigor, stability, and long cool downs on stun breakers)

Just asked thieves about being revealed by rangers and soon to be engineers

Just ask guardian about fighting poison spam builds (they have low HP base, and are designed to make that up with consistent heals)

In the other hand…what are thiefs weak against ?
Squishy ?….no when played well s/d thief at least is the most difficukt class to down
Reavealed by rangers ?….not a problem…at least for s/d
Teamfights….pvp is 5v5…thief have a nice place in this scale

Kicast.1459:

In the other hand…what are thiefs weak against.

AoE
(looks left)………………..(looks right)……………….(leans in)………………. : whispers in a hushed tone : ………………..Reveal

You the problem is, once you make a thread dedicated to one profession specifically against another in a game specifically not design for one on one, you don’t have the most solid base of support.

Siva Mira.3546:

Warrior got nerf, they stare at Thief. Mesmer got nerf, they stare at Thief. When Thief got nerf, it is for the sake of the game.

I’ve noticed that too lol. It isn’t that the adrenaline nerf solely was a buff to thieves but a buff to all professions (in a sense). The warrior simply cannot mash F1 anymore because improperly timing a burst will put them at a disadvantage.

The way it was before was a bit too forgiving for the player.

Doon.2364:

I’m a skullcrack warrior and I can hold my own against most thieves. But with the new adrenaline loss on out of combat, the thieves can take advantage of this and reset the fight by going out of combat and make me lose all my adrenaline. Skullcrack builds rely heavily on burst skills to win fights. And thieves are master of escaping and resetting fights so they can easily drain my adrenaline. How can I counter it? Beserker stance no longer grants full adrenaline, and if I take up Healing surge and rebuilt my adrenaline, he could just reset the fight again.

If the Thief goes far enough to get out of combat mode, that means both of you are back to full HP.

Losing adrenaline quickly while out of combat is a change that will make it harder for Warriors to open with a quick burst combo to beat the everloving kitten out of their enemies. You know, like Bull’s Charge>Skull Crack>100 Blades. Or the hammer combo.

A burst skill should be something that you set up carefully and get big wins if it succeeds, not something you repeat until it succeeds. Tons of people seem to want burst combos to be openers that kill your enemy if they cannot prevent it, but a burst combo should be something that gets used later on in combat to finish off your enemy.

And btw, the OP has “1v1 in WvW” written all over it.

Thieves have an advantage at the start of combat, because they start with a full initiative bar.

Warriors gain an advantage as combat draws on, because they start with an empty adrenaline bar.

This is intended. Do not blame players for playing in the spirit of their professions.

Kicast.1459:

dancingmonkey.4902:

In my opinion, once your making threads complaining about how one specific profession will have an advantage over you, you have kind of really started grasping at straws.

Just ask engineers about fighting necros (engies have the least congi removal)

Just as necros about fighting any build with CC (no vigor, stability, and long cool downs on stun breakers)

Just asked thieves about being revealed by rangers and soon to be engineers

Just ask guardian about fighting poison spam builds (they have low HP base, and are designed to make that up with consistent heals)

In the other hand…what are thiefs weak against ?
Squishy ?….no when played well s/d thief at least is the most difficukt class to down
Reavealed by rangers ?….not a problem…at least for s/d
Teamfights….pvp is 5v5…thief have a nice place in this scale

You know that nerf that is coming to thieves next patch?

One thing I will add is that Skull Crack DOES need a slight range increase. It is currently standard melee range but with such an obvious tell and cast time it can be nearly impossible to land against classes with a high number of evades. I want it to still be a burst that takes a lot of skill to land, but giving it a bit more range would help a lot with quality of Life, especially since Bull’s Charge loves to sometimes put you a few feet off from the target but not tell you that right away.

Doon.2364:

I don’t think you guys are grasping the situation. A skullcrack warrior will be at a big disadvantage in the beginning of the fight as he has no adrenaline build up for his skullcrack. Therefore, the thief can dish out a lot of damage while the warrior tries to build up his adrenaline. Now once the warrior reaches max adrenaline, the thief can simply disengage the fight which will cause the warrior to lose his adrenaline out of combat, then thief re-engages right away and tries to finish off the warrior who has probably blown all his utility skills. The warrior will never get the chance to use his burst skill if the thief exploit the “out of combat, warriors lose adrenaline” change. I hope I made this scenario clearer and why the adrenaline change will kill off certain warrior builds like the rifle warriors as well.

Well, 1st if thief has to disengage you win, cause the point is ticking for your team all the time…

2nd, perhaps this is about all warriors taking healing signet, use another heal and bam , full adrenaline.
Also, noone knows how fast a warrior will lose adren if he is still in combat but not fighting ( if at all ). So an attacker has to run really far to drop out of combat.

And if you are out of combat, its only fair that u lose your adrenaline, but in order for you to understand that, you have to play other professions and not only see everything from your warrior pov.

This will also improve your gameplay versus other professions, i suggest you start by rolling a thief.

Have fun !

Kicast.1459:

In the other hand…what are thiefs weak against ?

Damagespikes, Conditionspikes, Every kind of CC, Any attacks if their ini pool is low/empty, groups, Immo, Daze, Stuns, Ice(semi),…

lol aoe as a counter to thieves, nice one it must be insta win against other classes if this is the case

Black Teagan.9215:

Kicast.1459:

In the other hand…what are thiefs weak against ?

Damagespikes, Conditionspikes, Every kind of CC, Any attacks if their ini pool is low/empty, groups, Immo, Daze, Stuns, Ice(semi),…

this is true if a thief stands there and lets you do this to it.. but most of the time you will have blind shoved in your face or you wont have a target or they will be evading / dodging thanks to cast times of these skills with animations

You used to get 1,6x or 5x bars of adrenaline with the overbrokenlong zerker stance. The duration or immunity isnt touched, you will only get 3x adrenaline bars gratis while in godmode.
A nerf worth crying.

Side note, you just won the node. And you will win it again, just cz youre warrior.

TrOtskY.5927:

if they had to run away to reset then who cares, you won anyway.

Thievs ARE supposed to be a nuisance tho, you do understand?

You didn’t win. They reset the fight and since nobody can outrun a thief they can just come back shortly after to finish you off.

Zenith.7301:

TrOtskY.5927:

if they had to run away to reset then who cares, you won anyway.

Thievs ARE supposed to be a nuisance tho, you do understand?

You didn’t win. They reset the fight and since nobody can outrun a thief they can just come back shortly after to finish you off.

If your okay with this, and keep defending these professions in an irrational 1v1 comparison, then you have to accept the silliness that is the OP of the 1v1 discussion of necro versus warrior.

unlucky.9285:

Black Teagan.9215:

Kicast.1459:

In the other hand…what are thiefs weak against ?

Damagespikes, Conditionspikes, Every kind of CC, Any attacks if their ini pool is low/empty, groups, Immo, Daze, Stuns, Ice(semi),…

this is true if a thief stands there and lets you do this to it.. but most of the time you will have blind shoved in your face or you wont have a target or they will be evading / dodging thanks to cast times of these skills with animations

Blind is easily removed. You can only dodge so much. You can still attack and damage players in stealth. :I

Let me reiterate that sentence. If you are having a hard time with an evasion thief, time your attacks between his evades and use cripple or immobilize to make the thief’s evades less effective in the positioning department.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Zenith.7301:

TrOtskY.5927:

if they had to run away to reset then who cares, you won anyway.

Thievs ARE supposed to be a nuisance tho, you do understand?

You didn’t win. They reset the fight and since nobody can outrun a thief they can just come back shortly after to finish you off.

If your okay with this, and keep defending these professions in an irrational 1v1 comparison, then you have to accept the silliness that is the OP of the 1v1 discussion of necro versus warrior.

1v1 balance isn’t trivial in this game. In spvp it happens all the time, and in WvW thieves are flooding that format for the very reason that a thief can pretty much camp most professions 1v1 and whichever spec they can’t kill they easily can harass or run away from.

I’m ok with thief spike and control and sword evade spam, but their escapes need a nerfbat. If you make a mistake, you need to pay for those mistakes instead of getting all those free get out of jail cards to keep resetting until the fight goes in your favor because you ran your opponent out of cooldowns while your class doesn’t have nearly as long cooldowns.

Zenith.7301:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Zenith.7301:

TrOtskY.5927:

if they had to run away to reset then who cares, you won anyway.

Thievs ARE supposed to be a nuisance tho, you do understand?

You didn’t win. They reset the fight and since nobody can outrun a thief they can just come back shortly after to finish you off.

If your okay with this, and keep defending these professions in an irrational 1v1 comparison, then you have to accept the silliness that is the OP of the 1v1 discussion of necro versus warrior.

1v1 balance isn’t trivial in this game. In spvp it happens all the time, and in WvW thieves are flooding that format for the very reason that a thief can pretty much camp most professions 1v1 and whichever spec they can’t kill they easily can harass or run away from.

I’m ok with thief spike and control and sword evade spam, but their escapes need a nerfbat. If you make a mistake, you need to pay for those mistakes instead of getting all those free get out of jail cards to keep resetting until the fight goes in your favor because you ran your opponent out of cooldowns while your class doesn’t have nearly as long cooldowns.

WvW is not meant for 1v1 though. And secondly, that is how the thief was designed. It was built for 1v1s with excellent mobility in combat. But in zergs it is usually rallybait. It is designed as intended.

Lastly, If a thief is harassing you and keeps resetting, go into a tower or whatever and spec for more damage. The next time that thief attacks you, they will die faster.

Doon.2364:

I’m a skullcrack warrior and I can hold my own against most thieves. But with the new adrenaline loss on out of combat, the thieves can take advantage of this and reset the fight by going out of combat and make me lose all my adrenaline. Skullcrack builds rely heavily on burst skills to win fights. And thieves are master of escaping and resetting fights so they can easily drain my adrenaline. How can I counter it? Beserker stance no longer grants full adrenaline, and if I take up Healing surge and rebuilt my adrenaline, he could just reset the fight again.

I have seen warriors disengaging a losing fight faster then the speed of light. So yea you may lose adrenaline out of combat. Nothing but a minor “nerf” imo.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Zenith.7301:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Zenith.7301:

TrOtskY.5927:

if they had to run away to reset then who cares, you won anyway.

Thievs ARE supposed to be a nuisance tho, you do understand?

You didn’t win. They reset the fight and since nobody can outrun a thief they can just come back shortly after to finish you off.

If your okay with this, and keep defending these professions in an irrational 1v1 comparison, then you have to accept the silliness that is the OP of the 1v1 discussion of necro versus warrior.

1v1 balance isn’t trivial in this game. In spvp it happens all the time, and in WvW thieves are flooding that format for the very reason that a thief can pretty much camp most professions 1v1 and whichever spec they can’t kill they easily can harass or run away from.

I’m ok with thief spike and control and sword evade spam, but their escapes need a nerfbat. If you make a mistake, you need to pay for those mistakes instead of getting all those free get out of jail cards to keep resetting until the fight goes in your favor because you ran your opponent out of cooldowns while your class doesn’t have nearly as long cooldowns.

WvW is not meant for 1v1 though. And secondly, that is how the thief was designed. It was built for 1v1s with excellent mobility in combat. But in zergs it is usually rallybait. It is designed as intended.

Lastly, If a thief is harassing you and keeps resetting, go into a tower or whatever and spec for more damage. The next time that thief attacks you, they will die faster.

Yeah, no, that’s not what thief was designed for. Because venom share thief is still a potent group player. Thief was designed to scout. Necromancers were meant to be the chasers (and surprise, they’re pretty crap at it).

Spec more damage lol, so the thief can crit a backstab on you for 9k on top of a mug.

T raw.4658:

I enjoyed reading this thread

was thinking the same thing, it’s quite funny xD

Zenith.7301:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Zenith.7301:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Zenith.7301:

TrOtskY.5927:

if they had to run away to reset then who cares, you won anyway.

Thievs ARE supposed to be a nuisance tho, you do understand?

You didn’t win. They reset the fight and since nobody can outrun a thief they can just come back shortly after to finish you off.

If your okay with this, and keep defending these professions in an irrational 1v1 comparison, then you have to accept the silliness that is the OP of the 1v1 discussion of necro versus warrior.

1v1 balance isn’t trivial in this game. In spvp it happens all the time, and in WvW thieves are flooding that format for the very reason that a thief can pretty much camp most professions 1v1 and whichever spec they can’t kill they easily can harass or run away from.

I’m ok with thief spike and control and sword evade spam, but their escapes need a nerfbat. If you make a mistake, you need to pay for those mistakes instead of getting all those free get out of jail cards to keep resetting until the fight goes in your favor because you ran your opponent out of cooldowns while your class doesn’t have nearly as long cooldowns.

WvW is not meant for 1v1 though. And secondly, that is how the thief was designed. It was built for 1v1s with excellent mobility in combat. But in zergs it is usually rallybait. It is designed as intended.

Lastly, If a thief is harassing you and keeps resetting, go into a tower or whatever and spec for more damage. The next time that thief attacks you, they will die faster.

Yeah, no, that’s not what thief was designed for. Because venom share thief is still a potent group player. Thief was designed to scout. Necromancers were meant to be the chasers (and surprise, they’re pretty crap at it).

Spec more damage lol, so the thief can crit a backstab on you for 9k on top of a mug.

Venomshare is not a viable support role for the thief. You are required to have a highly coordinated group, full line of venoms for the heavy traiting to count and the player themselves have to survive while being kitten out of condition removal and stunbreaks. As squishy as the profession is, they need to spec for some surviability or be hardcore at positioning and dodging.

Just about every weaponset (but mainly x/p) provides enough support that venoms are better off replaced by tools to keep the thief from being rallybait… imho. X/P with head shot and BP, S/D with boon removal and stuns, SB for blast finisher spam and d/d for downing key targets are great methods of support the thief has available and in the right hands would not need venoms to provide added support.

In fact, Caltrops provides way more support than all the venoms combined. Its on a much shorter cooldown and provides an aoe bleed and cripple that makes it harder for enemies to escape which in turn makes them easier targets for groups. It also ticks Signet of Malice per pulse per target which helps keep the thief alive a little longer.

That is just one example, though.

alchemyst.2165:

Maybe you should just deal with it and learn to effectively prepare your burst without a simple press of F1.

Also another example of “Nerf X because its hard for me to kill them”

I love how everyone is pointing at thieves this patch when in reality we didn’t get that many buffs.

Didn’t get “that many buffs” is better than 95% of the buffs that warrior got. The 5% because greatsword burst might, might, be useful after the patch.

fellyn.5083:

alchemyst.2165:

Maybe you should just deal with it and learn to effectively prepare your burst without a simple press of F1.

Also another example of “Nerf X because its hard for me to kill them”

I love how everyone is pointing at thieves this patch when in reality we didn’t get that many buffs.

Didn’t get “that many buffs” is better than 95% of the buffs that warrior got. The 5% because greatsword burst might, might, be useful after the patch.

The thing is, Warriors will still be incredibly strong after patch. The only good buffs thieves got were Ricochet buff and Dagger cleave. They will still be a sub-par class in several areas compared to the others.

It’s about time Warrior had something to fear.

God forbid you can’t comfortably run into any 1v1 without some forethought.

Thieves have been farming pretty much any class that isn’t a good engineer or PU mesmer. They’re hardly the ones to whine about unfair 1v1 match ups.

In fact, thief and warrior have been the cause for all this condi meta because any class that tries to go power spec gets instagibbed by thief and warrior power specs.

Try being a power ranger or engineer or necromancer and running into a warrior or thief and then come back and tell me everything’s OK.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Zenith.7301:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Zenith.7301:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Zenith.7301:

TrOtskY.5927:

if they had to run away to reset then who cares, you won anyway.

Thievs ARE supposed to be a nuisance tho, you do understand?

You didn’t win. They reset the fight and since nobody can outrun a thief they can just come back shortly after to finish you off.

If your okay with this, and keep defending these professions in an irrational 1v1 comparison, then you have to accept the silliness that is the OP of the 1v1 discussion of necro versus warrior.

1v1 balance isn’t trivial in this game. In spvp it happens all the time, and in WvW thieves are flooding that format for the very reason that a thief can pretty much camp most professions 1v1 and whichever spec they can’t kill they easily can harass or run away from.

I’m ok with thief spike and control and sword evade spam, but their escapes need a nerfbat. If you make a mistake, you need to pay for those mistakes instead of getting all those free get out of jail cards to keep resetting until the fight goes in your favor because you ran your opponent out of cooldowns while your class doesn’t have nearly as long cooldowns.

WvW is not meant for 1v1 though. And secondly, that is how the thief was designed. It was built for 1v1s with excellent mobility in combat. But in zergs it is usually rallybait. It is designed as intended.

Lastly, If a thief is harassing you and keeps resetting, go into a tower or whatever and spec for more damage. The next time that thief attacks you, they will die faster.

Yeah, no, that’s not what thief was designed for. Because venom share thief is still a potent group player. Thief was designed to scout. Necromancers were meant to be the chasers (and surprise, they’re pretty crap at it).

Spec more damage lol, so the thief can crit a backstab on you for 9k on top of a mug.

Venomshare is not a viable support role for the thief. You are required to have a highly coordinated group, full line of venoms for the heavy traiting to count and the player themselves have to survive while being kitten out of condition removal and stunbreaks. As squishy as the profession is, they need to spec for some surviability or be hardcore at positioning and dodging.

Just about every weaponset (but mainly x/p) provides enough support that venoms are better off replaced by tools to keep the thief from being rallybait… imho. X/P with head shot and BP, S/D with boon removal and stuns, SB for blast finisher spam and d/d for downing key targets are great methods of support the thief has available and in the right hands would not need venoms to provide added support.

In fact, Caltrops provides way more support than all the venoms combined. Its on a much shorter cooldown and provides an aoe bleed and cripple that makes it harder for enemies to escape which in turn makes them easier targets for groups. It also ticks Signet of Malice per pulse per target which helps keep the thief alive a little longer.

That is just one example, though.

That’s the whole point of venomshare, to play it with a shortbow and good positioning.

I mean, in WvW any fight over 3-4 people you should be going shortbow because cluster bomb and choking gas on top of the bouncing autoattack will do so much more for your group than hitting 1-3 targets out of 10 targets with your melee weapon.

Doon.2364:

I’m a skullcrack warrior and I can hold my own against most thieves. But with the new adrenaline loss on out of combat, the thieves can take advantage of this and reset the fight by going out of combat and make me lose all my adrenaline. Skullcrack builds rely heavily on burst skills to win fights. And thieves are master of escaping and resetting fights so they can easily drain my adrenaline. How can I counter it? Beserker stance no longer grants full adrenaline, and if I take up Healing surge and rebuilt my adrenaline, he could just reset the fight again.

To break combat, the thief has to run away a significant distance (across half the map). No thief would waste time doing this when a simple dodge or blind of your burst skill has the same effect.

BP and LS nerf is actually huge buff to warrior. You point?

Zenith.7301:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Venomshare is not a viable support role for the thief. You are required to have a highly coordinated group, full line of venoms for the heavy traiting to count and the player themselves have to survive while being kitten out of condition removal and stunbreaks. As squishy as the profession is, they need to spec for some surviability or be hardcore at positioning and dodging.

Just about every weaponset (but mainly x/p) provides enough support that venoms are better off replaced by tools to keep the thief from being rallybait… imho. X/P with head shot and BP, S/D with boon removal and stuns, SB for blast finisher spam and d/d for downing key targets are great methods of support the thief has available and in the right hands would not need venoms to provide added support.

In fact, Caltrops provides way more support than all the venoms combined. Its on a much shorter cooldown and provides an aoe bleed and cripple that makes it harder for enemies to escape which in turn makes them easier targets for groups. It also ticks Signet of Malice per pulse per target which helps keep the thief alive a little longer.

That is just one example, though.

That’s the whole point of venomshare, to play it with a shortbow and good positioning.

I mean, in WvW any fight over 3-4 people you should be going shortbow because cluster bomb and choking gas on top of the bouncing autoattack will do so much more for your group than hitting 1-3 targets out of 10 targets with your melee weapon.

I highly doubt most of the thief community would agree with you.

Black Teagan.9215:

Kicast.1459:

In the other hand…what are thiefs weak against ?

Damagespikes, Conditionspikes, Every kind of CC, Any attacks if their ini pool is low/empty, groups, Immo, Daze, Stuns, Ice(semi),…

builds that kite equally, last refuge, withdraw in certain situations like ring of warding/static field/cliff, evasion baiting, focus fire of any degree, shadow refuge in team fights, casting HiS or skelk venom, reflecting sneak attack (reveal will not, lead dinner you will), missing a pw, having hs randomly leap you backwards despite not having a target, chill/cripple, retaliation (on some builds).