Guild Wars 2

My hypothesis is that warriors have about the right amount of damage (they are supposed to be near the top, with lots of sources, etc) but have too little weakness in defense or others have too little ability to CC and lock them down to keep them at range. I surmise that much of the passive healing and armor was designed to allow a warrior to get into a fight versus getting owned before melee began. Stun locking warriors wouldn’t be fun for anyone for example.

Proposed ideas:

1. As adrenaline goes up, there should be a reduction in defense. You should take more damage. How and what type is open for discussion.

2. When certain big hit melee skills are on cool down (pick by weapon), the warrior’s passive skills (say healing signet for example) should have reduced effectiveness.

The theory is that a warrior should have good defense up until they get into a melee fight. In a melee fight, their defense should be their offense. Somehow, if there was a way to make a warrior lose a lot of their defensive capability in the thick of a facesmash that would make the class more interesting (and perhaps so for warriors too).

You just wouldn’t have all the passive armor, heal etc all the time. It would be there to get you into a fight not while you are in melee.

I don’t code. Those who do, is there anyway that could work?

bombs in all honesty the only way anet would do that with out killing the class would be to boost the damage based on adrenaline which definitely not help. infact this would make htings worse a lot worse. lets say a drop in armor of 10 is even out ith a raise in power of 10 all at once mobs will die so quickly (people too) that they would be no point to defense.

if you did not give a change in power then the class mechanic would work against you which is obviously not how the class was designed.

at best you will see minor things done here and there and usually to keep the class in line with other classes.

I’ve only recently started using the healing sig (couldn’t swap from mentality of actually using my healing skill, so went on with the adrenal one for a time), and i used to run some content naked just for the lulz (lv20something fotm, ac, cof, se, arah3).
Thing is – all you need is dodge, and dodge is all you need.
Wars get a free dodge on gs3 which can also be used while being immobilised; removing evasion effect from that skill would already be a major nerf and a properly balancing one. Regen and passive defences are only some extra boosters if you fail to manage your endurance properly; they extend the safe margin for errors, but they’re not really needed if you know the encounters.

Tone down warrior – kill synergy between dps+support+tankiness and/or buff other classes; buff mobs in PvE, just not by adding them more hp.

A) GS fix – remove Rush and swap in Arcing Slice (operates like the lvl 3 version and becomes a blast finisher), new burst move operates like a mix between lb and hammer burst, a ground targeted 1200 range leap that creates a fire field at the end, always draining adrenaline

B) Cleansing Ire fix – Conditions are only removed on burst attacks that connect per adrenaline spent (New GS burst and LB burst no longer remove conditions unless damage is done on first tick)

C) HS fix – HS passive now only works at full effect in 600 range of target, otherwise it ticks once every 3s. Active changed to a 600hps heal that operates regardless of target/range for 8s.

D) CC fix – When immobilized players can now turn without needing to use the turn keybinds. Control effects (stun/knockdown/knockback, etc) can no long be chained into eachother, having one effect applied makes you immune to all others.

The thing about Warriors is that they just have a little too much passive survival while also outputting high damage. Most classes need to trade most of their defense for offense, but not the Warrior.

Even in Zerker gear, a Warrior has 18k HP, 2200 armor(correct me if I am wrong), and can regenerate a lot of HP with signet.

To compare, a Thief has 11k HP, about 1900 armor, and zero health regen unless he uses signet of malice, which even when constantly attacking, is less healing than Healing signet.

Now this is PvE, and obviously in PvP thieves have more methods of active defense than a Warrior, but you get the point.

What people don’t realize is it really doesn’t take much to push a class from being too powerful, to underpowered. 8% nerf to HS is a good start, but I would prefer it if they just changed the signet’s function entirely. As long as a heal exists that is pure health per second, it will always be viewed as the ultimate heal.

I think one way to help fix this problem is to reduce the gigantic HP difference between the professions. Currently it goes 10.5k, 15.5k, 18k… which is pretty large, especially for the lower end. I think it should be more like… 15k, 16.5k, 18k.

Another reason Warriors are often viewed as the “Golden Child” is because they are simply way more polished. You can really tell when looking at the traits, skills, and playing a Warrior that A-Net really put time into making sure everything worked right.

Compare that to a Ranger or Necro, where certain traits/weaponskills remain bugged for months on end, sometimes years. Rangers main DPS weapon’s auto attack locks you out of dodging! Necro has two traitlines with almost zero function outside of utilizing minions, not to mention bugged weapon skills/traits that took literally forever to fix.

When you compare Warrior traits to other professions, its just obvious which is more efficient. Warriors get +50% bleed duration, other classes get +20% bleed duration. Warriors get 5 sec weapon swap, others get 10, warriors need only spend 10 pts for 25% movement speed, others need to either sacrifice a utility slot or a whole rune set.

To me, its the large number of little polished things that make Warriors the best class, and also of course their insane passive survival.

Stx.4857:

The thing about Warriors is that they just have a little too much passive survival while also outputting high damage.

A warrior is supposed to have the most melee damage than other classes. Because a warrior is the embodiment of melee class. Unless of course you want the warrior to hit like a wet noodle.

Most classes need to trade most of their defense for offense, but not the Warrior.

The other classes have other mechanics to cope with damage mitigation. And on top of that other classes have AI to do the Job for them.

Even in Zerker gear, a Warrior has 18k HP, 2200 armor(correct me if I am wrong), and can regenerate a lot of HP with signet.

Which you can easily burst him down.

To compare, a Thief has 11k HP, about 1900 armor, and zero health regen unless he uses signet of malice, which even when constantly attacking, is less healing than Healing signet.

But Thief has stealth and evades on top of that.

When you compare Warrior traits to other professions, its just obvious which is more efficient. Warriors get +50% bleed duration, other classes get +20% bleed duration. Warriors get 5 sec weapon swap, others get 10, warriors need only spend 10 pts for 25% movement speed, others need to either sacrifice a utility slot or a whole rune set.

And others can have CD reduction on skills and utilities without the need to spend 50 trait-points for it like warrior. Others classes utilities and skills work as intended while warriors are still bugged (Bolas,BC etc).
The point is you can not compare warriors traits with other classes traits, because each class is different and has different mechanics and game-play.

Regards

Seed

The idea that all you need is dodge could be said for any skill at any damage rate in the game.

The issue is you need dodge for much more than just the warrior especially in larger fights.

Dodge is not the answer to balance in most cases. Plus, it is very limited in the number of times you can dodge.

Understood, this might not be workable, but as of yet here is the state of it.

1) Warriors have at the very least a HUGE perception issue of being OP.
2) Warriors certainly are more passive to play (at least in spvp) than most classes. At least from a defensive standpoint.
3) Likely Warriors are numerically out of balance in terms of total capabilities (offense PLUS defense)
4) It will be better for warriors to suggest solutions and discuss where the problem may be, than simply wake up one day to adjustments.
5) The fact that there are too many warriors (at least on the server I play and those in WvW) is an imbalance itself, so the class just on this alone needs to be adjusted. Balance also involves class and build diversity.

If this is the wrong idea, what is the right one? Even if you just are perceived as being far too powerful, you really do have a problem. It would be best for warriors to open up a bit more on why so many think they are OP (versus any other class in the game) and what they would suggest the answer is (versus let’s buff everyone else which effectively creates nasty power creep and kills PvE).

Tjeez cant we stop these warrior topics? Getting tired of the same topics everyday…

Saying warrior have it all bla bla..
They have most armor and toughness..
Well most other classes have more damage reduction due to protection.. Allot have evade skills to counter attacks or stealth or clones/all pets etc.. So much more.. But all they see is wow warrior have moat health AND armor + solid damage and survival..
So about armor and health it doesnt matter (read above) about damage.. It comes with slow and good to read animations. So you can very easy coubter these attacks.. Survival? Yeah we have HS endure pain / berserker stance.. Dont blow your skills on it.. Run around for some seconds and the warr is all yours.

Just stop this nonsense and endless forum topic spam about warriors.

People really should consider playing a Warrior before attempting to debate what the class does and doesn’t need. This way you get a feel for why the Warrior has the tools they do, why they are designed the way they are, and where the problems really exist.

For starters lets revisit the Warrior vs Thief debate that was going on earlier. These 2 classes are not comparable because the main defensive mechanic isn’t comparable between the 2 classes. One is an avoidance mechanic (stealth) and the other is a mitigation mechanic (health regen/armor).

Another thing that needs to be acknowledged is a Warrior with just healing signet isn’t overpowered. They’re effectively a free kill to anyone paying attention. Warriors don’t start to become overpowered until you start to consider Adrenal Health + Defy Pain + Endure Pain + Mobile Strikes + Dogged March + Berserker Stance + Balanced Stance + Consumables + Mobility.

When you strictly look at the passive regen, the Guardian is able to do much more healing than the Warrior. The difference is their’s is bursty, group oriented, and not (as) passive. This is because ANet has not found a way to make ‘tanky’ classes work in this game without giving them healing to support their damage mitigation. While it’s not ideal, you counter both these classes the same way… you poison them and burst them down.

So is the healing really the issue? Not entirely as healing signet and adrenal health alone aren’t really winning any fights. The things that make the passive healing seem excessive are the Warriors ability to run away and kite better than most classes (giving downtime for passive healing to work), Endure Pain and Shield Stance which give the Warrior a large amount of downtime to heal, Berserker Stance which counters condis which helps them heal, etc etc. If you want to nerf the Warrior, these are the areas you should focus your attention.

Another area to take into consideration for Warriors is the simple fact that when a Warrior traits to be tanky they lose almost no damage. But if a Warrior traits to do damage they lose too much survivability. Simply moving some of the defensive oriented traits around to more dps oriented lines could resolve a lot of the problems too.

All that said though… it’s very important you actually try playing a Warrior and see what happens when you don’t run with Healing Signet, or you don’t run with 20 in Defense at a minimum, etc etc.

nicknamenick.2437:

Tjeez cant we stop these warrior topics? Getting tired of the same topics everyday…

Just stop this nonsense and endless forum topic spam about warriors.

Do yourself a favor and stop taking these threads to heart so much. The reason there is so much discussion going on about the Warrior is because at the moment in this current state of the game there are plenty of reasons to involve Warriors in balance discussions. Either because they raise the bar for other professions, or the skill/reward ratio is off by a large margin.

That said, it seems to be the same few people defending the Warrior’s point of view in these discussions. The discussions will not stop, even in a balanced game they never do.
Though I look forward to reading either some constructive arguments from these players, or reading nothing from them at all.

By the way, that last part was personal. I can empathize with you defending the Warrior profession. But the same players acting as “Forum Warriors” while still not contributing to the actual discussions (but rather trying to derail them) gets old very fast.

And yes, I missed the note “Welcome to teh internetz”.

Back to the OP, in my opinion the problems with the Warriors “having it all” (which is biased…) is a trait issue.
Seeing how 20 points in Defense is almost mandatory for competitive Warriors is a good indication that things need to change.

This game is great in that PvP allows you to get an 80% read on a class just by playing a low level for about a month or so. I have played each class in PvP just so I know a bit more about how to beat each class.

Few sane people would have all 8 classes they play in other modes.

@JorneMormel Agreed on warriors having easier access to traits. That would be a good place to start.

Agreed that warriors benefit from mechanics not working in other classes. You would think a ranger pet would give a melee class fits as it tries to decide which of two targets to deal with. Same thing with multiple turrets. Warriors should hate them.

But we have to live with the reality of the situation as it is today.

The mechanics don’t change that much.

All that said though… it’s very important you actually try playing a Warrior and see what happens when you don’t run with Healing Signet, or you don’t run with 20 in Defense at a minimum, etc etc.

Same goes to people maining warriors – play all the other classes enough to have proper view of how it all is balanced within the whole system.
http://imgur.com/a/tIQL0
This war is pretty much only dungeons + PvP; i ‘main’ a guardian for FotM, i have Champion Genius and enough PvP experience with all toons (nearing 100 tourney wins on ele – yes, with the current meta), and play ele or necro in WvW.
Please drop the ‘play warrior and see it’s not OP’ argument. It is OP as kitten if you have enough experience with the game and all professions across the board to see it.

Damage mitigation is MUCH EASIER to pull off and allows you to keep up dps more consistently than ANY form of active defence. Simply because in the latter case, you need to DO something instead of dishing out damage, just to survive; in warrior’s case, all you need is banner up and kite around, while still dpsing this way or another, and if you’re about to die, you have the means to run away with most weapon sets.

Dodge is all you need for PvE, on any toon, as long as you can facetank a hit from time to time, aka don’t die to any stray hit from mobs/boss when your endurance is regenerating. It is often problematic to zerker eles who stack with their parties (and they need to stack as opposed to shooting at 1200 range, because boons and buffs), but a zerker warrior can facetank a hit once in a while and regen it up in no time, with no extra means of survival but just the signet and dodging/evading/blocking.