Guild Wars 2

Nerfing is a critically important part of game design.

Warriors were in a very bad spot. The decision was to buff them quickly (not talking about how long it took to get to that point guys). The other choice would have been very incremental skill by skill adjusting upwards a wee bit each time until months later you had it right.

But. . . .

When you make big changes, you often need to claw back a bit once it goes live and you see all the unintended consequences.

Then. . . .

You have a community that screams “don’t nerf”.

OK. . . .

Would it have been better to have made the warrior changes over say 6 months + so that they wouldn’t need a bit of toning down?

Want to ask a ranger if they would rather ANet move quickly to buff them knowing there is a good chance of an adjustment later OR have lots of little adjustments over the next 6 months?

In short, Warrior is sitting pretty on offense (makes sense) and defense. You can’t put both on the same class with no really obvious area they are very weak in. Where is the across all classes (or most) kitten in the warrior armor which is the way to beat them? It used to be condition them to dust. In other games it is make them pay before they get into melee range. But it always is something.

But the key point of the post is do you want ANet to buff classes all at once and then adjust or buff classes in baby steps to avoid the anger of having to claw back anything? I pick the former every day plus a day.

Warriors are absolutely overpowered in GW2!

They bring the most damage and heavy Armor + a very large pool of vitality & support.

Reduce the damage of the warriors and hold the damage of all other gamers and it would be fair.

Please think about that, thanx

Warriors are actually out DPSed by Eles, Thieves, Mesmers and about the same as Guardian, just losing out.

I’ll never understand why people think they do the highest DPS. A big 100b number =/= good DPS.

When I was a kid I always threw bread to the bears at the zoo even though I knew I wasn’t supposed to. That may be why I occasionally respond to trolls. Warriors are not OP; they are simply an example of a relatively well-designed class as professions go in GW2. I’m strong believer in encouraging, enhancing, and expanding success, not nerfing it.

There are definitely certain facets of the game where the Warrior is way too OP. I have seven toons and none of them are Warriors. I refuse to play the game in tutorial mode.

Of course, this topic has been discussed many times before. It’s been recently announced that one of the Warrior’s overpowered skills, Healing Signet, is being altered so that the passive mode isn’t as effective. In turn the active ability is being improved to compensate. This will help.

Hundred Blades is a skill that really needs a massive nerf — but only in PvE. Against another player there are many ways to anticipate and deal with the skill. But against the stupid A.I. it works at maximum efficiency all the time.

Be prepared for backlash from the Warriors who zealously guard their class from criticism, constructive and otherwise.

Warriors do NOT bring the most damage.

Agreed.

> Damage (PvP/PvE/structures/anything)
> Survivability
> Mobility
> HP

There’s a reason power-running CoF P1 used to be 4xWar + Mes.

Yep warriors totally need a buff their so weak.
Im tired of listening to wee wee my ranger is so weak.
Ok you know what (If you’re ranger and think your weak) ? give us
Nature voice , Oakheart salve, Healing spirit, Primal reflexes, Companion´s Defense.
And you can have healing signet and adrenal health. now THAT would had been overpowered. That’s because rangers are more tanky than warrior way more tanky.
I didn’t make a warrior to play tank i made it to DPS and thats what they do good and its working as intended. They are the squishiest profession after elementalist.
“but theives die faster” NOPE! theives can dodge 5 times in row, roll for initative dodge more stealth dodge more fear you, stun you , block you’re projectiles and so on.
Warriors have skills to become invulnerable but SO DO EVERY OTHER CLASS.
Its meant as a last resort of defense it only last for a few seconds. stop with these threads already.
That being said. Warrior can do decent dps but nowhere close to what thieves and elementalists can do. Or even engineer spamming bombs.
So why do YOU complain about warriors? is it because you lose to them in pvp? Well why don’t you think of new strategies why don’t you ask good players and btw most of them dont play warrior.

It’s not because of PvP – and I’m no ranger.
I’m a mesmer who spins non-elite warriors in PvP.

It’s the rest.

Lorin.9564:

Warriors are absolutely overpowered in GW2!

They bring the most damage and heavy Armor + a very large pool of vitality & support.

Reduce the damage of the warriors and hold the damage of all other gamers and it would be fair.

Please think about that, thanx

QFT.

kthxby

Warriors were only “in a bad spot” in PvP. There were, and continue to be, top dog in all things PVE and most things WvW, including, but not limited to: dungeons, fractals, world bosses, WvW zergs and GvG.

Henri Blanche.8276:

There are definitely certain facets of the game where the Warrior is way too OP. I have seven toons and none of them are Warriors. I refuse to play the game in tutorial mode.

Emphasis mine.
You’re hardly qualified to criticise a profession if you never play it.

Mungrul.9358:

Henri Blanche.8276:

There are definitely certain facets of the game where the Warrior is way too OP. I have seven toons and none of them are Warriors. I refuse to play the game in tutorial mode.

Emphasis mine.
You’re hardly qualified to criticise a profession if you never play it.

I did and I deleted him.

You CAN’T stop the Warriors!

Omega Mayhem.7163:

Warriors do NOT bring the most damage.

On paper this is true.

They do however have the easiest time delivering their payload. Elementalists can pull some absolutely ridiculous numbers in theory but in practice they are way too squishy. I don’t think the issue here is warrior damage as much as warrior survivability. As a warrior you can gear yourself for damage and still be insanely tanky. This is an issue.

Flissy.4093:

Warriors are actually out DPSed by Eles, Thieves, Mesmers and about the same as Guardian, just losing out.

I’ll never understand why people think they do the highest DPS. A big 100b number =/= good DPS.

Because, unlike the other classes you mentioned, warriors are easy mode. Gear up in zerker, equip healing sig, and you’re basically done. Roll head on keyboard + profit.

Assuming the ele build you’re talking about is either the LH build (which requires a team to support you) or the one skill, FGS. A normally built ele isn’t out DPSing a warrior.

Thieves – against a single target, in wvw, roaming – sure. Any other circumstance – no chance.

Mesmers – high skill ceiling. They work harder for it, and deserve it.

Guardians – see mesmer.

Actually most of the classes beat warriors dps with the right build. The problem is they are so easy to play it doesn’t matter. In every single gametype warrior is easier to play than any other class bar maybe spirit ranger spamming auto attack. Their class mechanic is literally hit a button to do more damage. That’s less complicated than any of the other mechanics. They also have the most passive healing, and buffs(banners). They need to tone down warriors to still be useful, but be far worse than taking a skilled person playing another profession. The other option would be to increase the skill floor massively.

Flissy.4093:

Warriors are actually out DPSed by Eles, Thieves, Mesmers and about the same as Guardian, just losing out.

I’ll never understand why people think they do the highest DPS. A big 100b number =/= good DPS.

Elementalists can out-damage warriors only in large AoE situations.
Aside from that, Warriors do more dps than thieves, Mesmers and Guardians, with far less effort.

Its weakness is slow and obvious burst animations. If you pay attention you could bring down any warrior without that much problems on any other class.

Warrior will always be the easy class to kill some because there mechanic is pretty simple to bring someone down… But thats also its weakness.. There mechanic/rotations are simple to read and predict and there bursts skills are also all very easy to read.. And you can count another one in the list > pin down..

Its just that 80% of the people in gw2 have no idea about warrior or how to fight them.. They eat all the bursts attacks and spoil there own burst attacks on endure pain or whatever and QQ here..

Its weakness is slow and obvious burst animations. If you pay attention you could bring down any warrior without that much problems on any other class.
Warrior will always be the easy class to kill some because there mechanic is pretty simple to bring someone down… But thats also its weakness.. There mechanic/rotations are simple to read and predict and there bursts skills are also all very easy to read.. And you can count another one in the list > pin down..
Its just that 80% of the people in gw2 have no idea about warrior or how to fight them.. They eat all the bursts attacks and spoil there own burst attacks on endure pain or whatever and QQ here..

I wouldn’t expect Andy to need their pet class. I just don’t see them being balanced any time soon or ever really. Needs tO be done but wont happen.

nicknamenick.2437:

Its weakness is slow and obvious burst animations. If you pay attention you could bring down any warrior without that much problems on any other class.
Warrior will always be the easy class to kill some because there mechanic is pretty simple to bring someone down… But thats also its weakness.. There mechanic/rotations are simple to read and predict and there bursts skills are also all very easy to read.. And you can count another one in the list > pin down..
Its just that 80% of the people in gw2 have no idea about warrior or how to fight them.. They eat all the bursts attacks and spoil there own burst attacks on endure pain or whatever and QQ here..

You should copy and paste this response into more threads lol. It’s obvious that the community wants to see warriors nerfed. It needs to happen. Too much offense, defense, cc, healing etc etc etc etc.

Nerd warriors pls.

Henri Blanche.8276:

There are definitely certain facets of the game where the Warrior is way too OP. I have seven toons and none of them are Warriors. I refuse to play the game in tutorial mode.

Of course, this topic has been discussed many times before. It’s been recently announced that one of the Warrior’s overpowered skills, Healing Signet, is being altered so that the passive mode isn’t as effective. In turn the active ability is being improved to compensate. This will help.

Hundred Blades is a skill that really needs a massive nerf — but only in PvE. Against another player there are many ways to anticipate and deal with the skill. But against the stupid A.I. it works at maximum efficiency all the time.

Be prepared for backlash from the Warriors who zealously guard their class from criticism, constructive and otherwise.

What the Eff do you know about warrior skills or if they are OP or not if you have 7 toons and none of them are Warrior?

Thedenofsin.7340:

Elementalists can out-damage warriors only in large AoE situations.
Aside from that, Warriors do more dps than thieves, Mesmers and Guardians, with far less effort.

Actually, Thieves can do more single target DPS than Warriors.

I’ve never seen a thief consistently deal more single target dps than a warrior outside of a short fight.

Lorin.9564:

Warriors are absolutely overpowered in GW2!

They bring the most damage and heavy Armor + a very large pool of vitality & support.

Reduce the damage of the warriors and hold the damage of all other gamers and it would be fair.

Please think about that, thanx

I like my warrior. But you hit on something accurate: High base HP and High Armor in this game are a problem. They are a problem because the swing from high base HP to Mid and Low is a HUGE swing. Same goes with armor.

Those need to be brought in line in the next round of balance. It would change a LOT.

I’ll be honest too. I like a simple style of gameplay. I like high “passive” base states like hp and armor. I also like a ton of weapon variety. This is why I picked warrior. I would give playing a thief a try if their base HP and medium armor didn’t suck so bad. Same with Elementalist. I’d try a Ranger if I didn’t have to have a pet (I’ve always wanted a longbow class w/o a pet…. only warriors can do this other than Rangers).

Just my 2 cents.

I agree warriors do not bring the best damage but they are near the top of damage. The issue is those that DO bring better damage have a whole lot more weaknesses in defense. Those that DO bring better damage tend to do so in one category only (e.g. condition) and very much not in others.

But the key is that the warrior has too many things offense (and people always seem to forget to talk about defense for some reason) that are well above average versus other classes.

It lacks a real weakness.
God knows, making every class lack a real weakness would be bad design so you can’t just “improve other classes”. That would be a huge power creep.

I want to say that I appreciate all the warriors commenting who do so in more than a knee jerk reaction. You all have to play the class 100% (well you get the idea) where I have to fight against it just a fraction of the time.

It is good to see some acknowledge that while the class is not massively OP, there are issues with being near the top in most offense and not near the bottom in any real defensive situation.

I would like to hear from warriors, IF you were to get adjusted downward, what would be the fairest place to start.

As I see it for myself (and this is my personal point of view), I’ll stick around until I see the proposed changes and if I don’t see some changes for the better I’ll be submitting my refund request. I’m sure, I’m not the only one having those sentiments.

Guild Wars 2 got so many things right, and at the same time it fails at some really basic mechanics. Right now Warrior feels like Ret Paladin and UH DK 2 in 1 from the first days of Wrath. I realize it took Blizzard 6 months or so to tone them down, but at least they didn’t buff them more and more in the process. Right now the game is getting to a point where it’s just not fun, and if I can’t get any fun out of the product, I’m returning it and switching “brands”.

I don’t want the classes I play to be overpowered, I just want them to provide equal footing so that when I get killed, I know I got outplayed, had bad positioning, my opponent had better positioning/timing. Instead now I feel like “Oh I just got stun locked to death because I don’t have endless stability and stun breaks”

I’ve been maining a war in pve and pvp for a while now. Having twelve lv80 toons and clocked several k hours total across all of them, i can quite reliably say wars are the most reliable and strongest from party perspective in anything PvE, and they have ridiculous builds available in PvP right now. A nerf is what warriors need.
In the meantime, though, i intend to make best use of the currently op class.

What nerf would you propose drkn and thanks for your honesty?

I would suggest buffing other professions AND monsters in PvE to balance it out, but it’s the longer and more complicated path. The quicker warrior nerfing is only a bandaid solution, as power creep is something unavoidable in MMOs; thing is, it should affect everything somewhat the same – all professions and the scripted content alike, to lead to the Diablo syndrome.
The banner condibunker warrior wrecks nearly anything 1v1 in PvP now, with barely any input on the warrior’s side, and is capable of surviving long enough in most 1v3 scenarios for allies to reinforce you or win elsewhere, yourself stalling enemies long enough to make it effective. The zerker war can dish out most consistent dps in long PvE boss fights, having not only strong bursts (not the strongest, still really nice) but also insane sustain, in terms of raw dps and survivability alike. The irony lies in that while doing either of those things, they also bring really strong party support, allowing others to dish out even more total damage or getting extra survivability for the whole team around the warrior.

Somehow forcing warriors to truly specialize into damage or survivability or support would be a good start, instead of allowing them run everything on a single build; buffing everything else to this level would also be ok, but only if coupled with serious improvements to AI and mob composition, aka pretty much full PvE rework.

Warriors haven’t been in a “bad spot” since early beta. Most of the warrior complaining early in the game was due to warriors completely face rolling in PvE ignoring mechanics like dodge or anything that wasn’t 5 signet-charge-Hundred Blades that they got owned in SPvP and assumed it was the class.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Elementalists can out-damage warriors only in large AoE situations.
Aside from that, Warriors do more dps than thieves, Mesmers and Guardians, with far less effort.

Looks like you never even tried zerker staff ele. Ele can outdamage EVERYTHING, any class and any spec, and this is on top of crazy bursting potential with frostbow+FGS and ridiculous might+fury stacking.

Bombsaway.7198:

What nerf would you propose drkn and thanks for your honesty?

i think that all other proffs should be given the same base hp and start from there.

i like playing warrior because it has some lee way. i dont like playing thief and ele because the margin for erroe is so small. buff the low hp classes to the same as warrior and lets see how it shakes out.

another change i would like to see is armor. make heavy reduce physical dmg, with light armor not blocking as much physical. make light armor reduce magical, withy heavy not reducing as much magical. make medium armor a split balance of both of them. right now heavy is plain better and there are no trade offs.

petespri.6548:

Bombsaway.7198:

What nerf would you propose drkn and thanks for your honesty?

i think that all other proffs should be given the same base hp and start from there.

i like playing warrior because it has some lee way. i dont like playing thief and ele because the margin for erroe is so small. buff the low hp classes to the same as warrior and lets see how it shakes out.

another change i would like to see is armor. make heavy reduce physical dmg, with light armor not blocking as much physical. make light armor reduce magical, withy heavy not reducing as much magical. make medium armor a split balance of both of them. right now heavy is plain better and there are no trade offs.

Honestly, I like being able to choose to have low damage-taking capabilities on my ele.
If you want to buff defense, I would go for buffing active defenses like they’re doing in the next patch with burning speed. Greater access to auras would be really nice. It may end up being that passive defense is the way to go, but I would rather ele maintain its tradition of being high-skillcap.

If they give all classes same health and armor you should also give warrior protectio / stealth and all the other crap..

Do you get why warrior dont get any of these???
Indeed they have heavy armor and high health.

But protection on light armor decrease more damage compared to heavy armor without..
Guardian does have protectio. Also but they get a low health pool.. And if both are low you have many other ways besides protectio. Or other boons to evade damage.. Incl stealth and clones / pets etv blocking things..

And i dont know why everyone says ele lacks survival.. Maby thats true in group fight. But in duel they can be very VERY good.. Ofc nobody would agree with me because warrior have it all!! Just lol people.. just look at warrior! Single target. No stealth no endless boons no pets/clones or teleport or any of the crap that other classes have.. Warriors are slow

Charlie.1726:

Because…

Bad Warrior > Bad Other Class
Good Warrior <= Good Other Class

That would explain why so many top-tier teams are running warriors (some with 2 warriors)!

Oh…wait…

Rednik.3809:

Looks like you never even tried zerker staff ele. Ele can outdamage EVERYTHING, any class and any spec, and this is on top of crazy bursting potential with frostbow+FGS and ridiculous might+fury stacking.

Speaking as an Ele, that damage comes at the cost of needing support from heavy classes. Otherwise in any stacking situation Ele’s get 1-shotted and they are likely to go down before anyone else in a typical fight/speedrun. There’s basically zero room for error with 11k health + 1800 armor (full zerk gear).

nicknamenick.2437:

If they give all classes same health and armor you should also give warrior protectio / stealth and all the other crap..

Do you get why warrior dont get any of these???
Indeed they have heavy armor and high health.

But protection on light armor decrease more damage compared to heavy armor without..
Guardian does have protectio. Also but they get a low health pool.. And if both are low you have many other ways besides protectio. Or other boons to evade damage.. Incl stealth and clones / pets etv blocking things.

Umm…Healing Signet. Have you heard of that skill? The longer the fight goes on, the more health the warrior regenerates. In a typical fight I can end up doing well over 35K+ damage to a warrior and he’s still alive thanks to Healing Signet! I can’t interrupt it, it’s constantly ticking while he’s busy spamming all his DPS/CC abilities.

I’ll take that over stealth or clones ANY DAY.

Rednik.3809:

And i dont know why everyone says ele lacks survival.. Maby thats true in group fight. But in duel they can be very VERY good.. Ofc nobody would agree with me because warrior have it all!! Just lol people.. just look at warrior! Single target. No stealth no endless boons no pets/clones or teleport or any of the crap that other classes have.. Warriors are slow.

“No blah no blah no blah” hey here’s an idea, how about telling me why every top-tier team is running with warriors? Because warriors apparently bring nothing? Y’know, besides being super tanky against both direct damage and conditions, bringing lots of CC and solid damage.
People aren’t kidding when they say that Warriors have the best mobility in the game, they really do:

I dont think warriors are as OP as some people claim. The main problem about warriors is the ease of playing them effectively. This is due to the passive defensive nature of the class. High vitality and heavy armor alone doesnt save anyone. Warriors had this from the start but it didnt help alot before the warrior love patches.

What makes warriors so easy to play is the passive nature of condi cleanse + near cripple/chill/immob immunity (due to dogged march + food/runes) + healing signet + great access to stability. You dont have to be good at playing a warrior because all this comes for free no matter how good you play.

When I play my Ele or Engi I have to put so much effort in being effective. When I play my warrior I just have to pop my utilities + food and spam my burst skills. I use knights armor with zerker trinkets/weapons and I have to problems staying alive in huge zerg fights in WvW while dishing out huge amounts of damage. My ele or engi would die instantly with the same equipment of my warrior in those situations.

Dont get me wrong, I really like playing my warrior, its my main since headstart. But its way to easy to play compared to other classes.

Just make world bosses 1 shot kill the zerker warrior and sudenly classes with better damage/evades will apear in dungeons.

In PvP there are more mesmers, necros, rangers than warriors playing.

Conditions should be brought in line in PvP and in PvE the stacks should be raised.

Problem solved

Flissy.4093:

Warriors are actually out DPSed by Eles, Thieves, Mesmers and about the same as Guardian, just losing out.

I’ll never understand why people think they do the highest DPS. A big 100b number =/= good DPS.

Are you talking about sPvP?

Wintel.4873:

Charlie.1726:

Because…

Bad Warrior > Bad Other Class
Good Warrior <= Good Other Class

That would explain why so many top-tier teams are running warriors (some with 2 warriors)!

Oh…wait…

Rednik.3809:

Looks like you never even tried zerker staff ele. Ele can outdamage EVERYTHING, any class and any spec, and this is on top of crazy bursting potential with frostbow+FGS and ridiculous might+fury stacking.

Speaking as an Ele, that damage comes at the cost of needing support from heavy classes. Otherwise in any stacking situation Ele’s get 1-shotted and they are likely to go down before anyone else in a typical fight/speedrun. There’s basically zero room for error with 11k health + 1800 armor (full zerk gear).

nicknamenick.2437:

If they give all classes same health and armor you should also give warrior protectio / stealth and all the other crap..

Do you get why warrior dont get any of these???
Indeed they have heavy armor and high health.

But protection on light armor decrease more damage compared to heavy armor without..
Guardian does have protectio. Also but they get a low health pool.. And if both are low you have many other ways besides protectio. Or other boons to evade damage.. Incl stealth and clones / pets etv blocking things.

Umm…Healing Signet. Have you heard of that skill? The longer the fight goes on, the more health the warrior regenerates. In a typical fight I can end up doing well over 35K+ damage to a warrior and he’s still alive thanks to Healing Signet! I can’t interrupt it, it’s constantly ticking while he’s busy spamming all his DPS/CC abilities.

I’ll take that over stealth or clones ANY DAY.

Rednik.3809:

And i dont know why everyone says ele lacks survival.. Maby thats true in group fight. But in duel they can be very VERY good.. Ofc nobody would agree with me because warrior have it all!! Just lol people.. just look at warrior! Single target. No stealth no endless boons no pets/clones or teleport or any of the crap that other classes have.. Warriors are slow.

“No blah no blah no blah” hey here’s an idea, how about telling me why every top-tier team is running with warriors? Because warriors apparently bring nothing? Y’know, besides being super tanky against both direct damage and conditions, bringing lots of CC and solid damage.
People aren’t kidding when they say that Warriors have the best mobility in the game, they really do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh8wtucvZJs

Deal! You get HS and me warrior get your stealth/clones and evade spam skills..
would love it!! Because with that i dont need HS anymore.. I would even do great just with mending…

Increasing the necessity to spend adrenaline in all builds would also help making warriors more complex, introducing more micro play and careful resource management.

drkn.3429:

Increasing the necessity to spend adrenaline in all builds would also help making warriors more complex, introducing more micro play and careful resource management.

Agree. Plus there should be some kind of counter play to warriors adrenaline mechanics. Its way to easy to gain adrenaline in the current state of the game. Adrenaline management should be comparable to thieves initiative. Currently its just some kind of “spam burst skills every 8-10s no matter what”…

teg.1340:

Agree. Plus there should be some kind of counter play to warriors adrenaline mechanics. Its way to easy to gain adrenaline in the current state of the game. Adrenaline management should be comparable to thieves initiative. Currently its just some kind of “spam burst skills every 8-10s no matter what”…

Because warriors don’t have ANY ways to spend adrenaline except for F1. I remember tons of suggestions about more special skills to spend adrenalin on, but anet ignored them all.