Guild Wars 2

Meanwhile everyone forgets that necro and engineer still continues to dominate PVP and WVW with their insane condition builds?

Nope ur just a warrior.

oh and forgot to add, how broken thieves are in wvw and spvp with those 13k+ backstabs.

Your a zerker warrior

Nope, we all know what the real problem is. Don’t try to trick us :l

i really want to see all these non-faceroll builds people talk about tho, because every class i seen seem to have builds that are as brainless and broken as the next yet they complain that warrior is OP. LOL

as long as PU mesmer, all thief builds, necro and engineer condition gets nerfed. Warrior nerfs would be ok.

Ok for me but considering that the other day we had ~20 people in OS arena, at least 15 of them warrior, should be a clear sign that something is wrong.

Iavra.8510:

Ok for me but considering that the other day we had ~20 people in OS arena, at least 15 of them warrior, should be a clear sign that something is wrong.

Did you ever stop and consider that the Warrior archetype is one of the most popular in ANY fantasy setting? People keep trying to use a classes popularity as proof of the class being broken when it’s popular in most MMOs. There were people playing Warrior in PvP even when the best you could hope for was a Bull’s + Frenzy + 100b combo before dying. It doesn’t hurt that Heavy classes have the best looking armor.

Iavra.8510:

Ok for me but considering that the other day we had ~20 people in OS arena, at least 15 of them warrior, should be a clear sign that something is wrong.

On top of what Burr said, recently there’s been a sharp increase in PvE players visiting PvP. And Warrior has always, always been a popular class in PvE because of some massive misinformation conspiracy that lauds it as the highest DPS class when it’s clearly not. So yeah a lot of those Warriors you see are PvE players.

Well, Warriors are a bit over the top. High damage Modifiers on all their weaponskills, relatively low average cooldowns amongst their weaponsets, insane access to Hard CC, useful utilitys, best base survivability (there is no such a thing as a Warrior “glass cannon” – the glass part isn’t even true if you’re running fullzerk as a warrior, at least not from the perspektive of light-armor-roamers), tons of blocks/active defense, they’re also among the best on case of mobility (cough landspeed – and don’t go and tell me that Sword or Greatsword are soo bad, because they’re actually good if you compare them to other classes weapons), among the best in terms of condition removal, high base-uptime for any condition-applications, easy access to might and fury (and even vigor when traited properly), optional near-immunity to movement impairing conditions and of course the banner of rezzing doom (for WvW zerging and/or roaming in small teams).

The Warrior is also a class, which can allow itself to trait defensively, and still get a nice damage output (as opposed to other classes).

Most duelists i met so far told me that they think the warrior to be quite OP; on the other side, most of the ones that don’t share this sentiment often main a warrior *(see footnote) themselves, and play their secondary characters – if anything – as thieves, Condibunker or PU mesmers. That being said, i don’t think that every build a Warrior has is OP – still, it’s hard to find a build which isn’t at least slightly above-average.

Regarding thieves and PU mesmers – yeah, i agree that those should be turned down as well. As a former Thief player currently maining a mesmer, i think that both – the ridicoulusly no-risk-backstab/stealthspam and the PU cheese – should be brought down to acceptable levels (played PU for a while, but i wouldn’t touch it with a stick now – way too facerolly), and i can’t stand the condispam meta as well (yes, Condibunker builds out there, i’am looking at you!).
Nowadays all you meet when roaming/dueling is (no particular order)
- perplexity Engineer
- PU Hybrid or Condimesmer
- Condimancer
- Condibunker Warrior
- D/P power- or P/D condithief
- Regen-Condibunker Ranger
- Powerbased Warriors
- Mediguardians
- some D/D eles

while i said “no particular order”, the condition variants still greatly outweight the power-based ones, with the exception of Powerbased Warriors and thieves (which are – in my experience – still far less in numbers than Condibuildusers, but still much more prevalent than other Powerbuilds, including mediguards)
——————————-
footnote

• i can’t say for sure if those players really mained a warrior, or just stated it to look more credible, just as Burr mentioned a few posts after this one, so better don’t take this as a fact

Iavra.8510:

Ok for me but considering that the other day we had ~20 people in OS arena, at least 15 of them warrior, should be a clear sign that something is wrong.

Just 7 days ago I was in OS arena testing out some new roaming specs. There were 15 to 20 people there. 1 warrior (me), 2 Eles, 1 Guardian, the rest was Thieves and Mesmers. There was also a Spamgineer that nobody wanted to fight against and just ignored. Yep, clearly something wrong.

i dont know why would you post this, everyone that is not some ridiculous noob, hj hero or wvw random pvdoors know that right now the fotm is necro and engi, and thief keep dominate everyone with zerkers(well maybe not, but we will see when the meta settle and ai gets fixed) and hambow is still strong as well, but that’s it.

and just ignore randoms like phirefox.2568, non of he said make sense in PvP perspective or even show that he plays the class even a bit, don’t ever try to argue with someone that only plays one class or two and pretend like they know everything, especially not some pro scout random wvwers, it only makes you dumber.

Well sPvP doesn’t tell anything about real balance.

Simon.3794:

i dont know why would you post this, everyone that is not some ridiculous noob, hj hero or wvw random pvdoors know that right now the fotm is necro and engi, and thief keep dominate everyone with zerkers(well maybe not, but we will see when the meta settle) and hambow is still strong as well, but that’s it.

and just ignore randoms like phirefox.2568, non of he said make sense or even show that he plays the class even a bit, don’t ever try to argue with someone that only plays one class or two and pretend like they know everything, especially not some pro scout that don’t fight and zerg, it only makes you dumber.

actually i’am a duelist in OS, not a zergling. You can ask lavra for that if you want, he was (or is? i don’t know anymore since i switched to abaddon recently) a duelist on Dzagonur (@lavra: i’am Nero A. :P). I got a Thief, a Mesmer, an engineer, a Warrior and A Ranger, so no, i’am not just playing one or two classes.

So please tell me, which of my points don’t make sense, and please give me an explanation as to what exactly leads to them being wrong. Thanks in advance!

phirefox…duelists, especially dedicated duelists, are not the people to ask about game balance. They say they “main” Warrior but seem to spend a large amount of time on their Thief/Mesmer. Sure that’s a bit of a strawman but in my experience T/Me players say they play Warrior and roll face on it in order to make their arguments seem more legitimate. There was someone who talked crap about Warrior on a daily basis who ended posting their PvP stats and had hardly played ANY PvP at all. The game is not and should not be balanced around 1v1 because it is a team game. Warriors are certainly strong at that but right now having a condi Necro and Engi can melt your average Hambow if they aren’t terrible. In WvW balance is even less relevant because food and other buffs exist.

Players like these will never be happy with Warrior until they can beat them 100% of the time like launch. They post threads with “suggestions” to “balance” Warriors that include making Heal Sig worse than it was pre-buff, nerfing CI, Nerfing Berserk Stance, Nerfing traits hardly anybody actually use, etc. I’ve seen MM Necros calling the class passive and D/P Thieves calling it “cheese.” They also post totally false info or exaggerate the effectiveness of traits like Adrenal Health. More recently they constantly bring up the high base stats but ignore the mechanics they don’t have.

All us War mains can do is correct the false info and avoid dropping down to their level. Sometimes I fail that, I also make the mistake of arguing when I’m lacking sleep and can barely type a full sentence.

With the recent nerfs to Hambow damage and the ability to actually cleanse Imaple’s Torment, I actually feel like Warriors are in a decent spot right now. I’d prefer to see Healing Signet get a base value nerf and improved Healing Power scaling, plus a more interesting active, but regardless, they seem to be all right now. They aren’t free kills by any means, and if you don’t out-play them, you will die, but they are still quite possible to kill.

Lifestealer.4910:

oh and forgot to add, how broken thieves are in wvw and spvp with those 13k+ backstabs.

1. go play thief.
2. come back here and tell us about your experience with backstabs

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

With the recent nerfs to Hambow damage and the ability to actually cleanse Imaple’s Torment, I actually feel like Warriors are in a decent spot right now. I’d prefer to see Healing Signet get a base value nerf and improved Healing Power scaling, plus a more interesting active, but regardless, they seem to be all right now. They aren’t free kills by any means, and if you don’t out-play them, you will die, but they are still quite possible to kill.

I’d have to agree with this. It seems to me that warriors are in the optimal spot. In some situations, I’ve smoked the warrior’s butt and wondered if they had been nerfed too heavily. Then, I’d get my butt handed to me by another warrior, but not due to them being op. It would usually be because my important skills were on cool down, or merely that I was just being outplayed. As of now, I don’t think warriors are op.

By the way, I’m referring to sPvP.

@BurrTheKing

first of all: thank you for that response – not only for the information, but also for the way you wrote it (you’re actually explaining things instead of just reacting in a mean way like some people do).

phirefox…duelists, especially dedicated duelists, are not the people to ask about game balance.
(…)
The game is not and should not be balanced around 1v1 because it is a team game.

That’s true, and it is probably too hard to balance all classes to be equally skilled in Duelling/small scale roaming/Zerging and normal PvEing at the same time anyway – as a duelist this still annoys me somewhat, but you’re still right in this point (1vs1ing is kind of a niche, and it would suck to destroy groupplay-balance to set it right)

They say they “main” Warrior but seem to spend a large amount of time on their Thief/Mesmer. Sure that’s a bit of a strawman but in my experience T/Me players say they play Warrior and roll face on it in order to make their arguments seem more legitimate. There was someone who talked crap about Warrior on a daily basis who ended posting their PvP stats and had hardly played ANY PvP at all.

This is very plausible, i just don’t really have the possibility to see if someone really plays a warrior as a main or just pretends to – i have to apologize here, i wrote it as if those players surely were main-Warriors, which is stupid of course since i can’t know that for sure. I won’t change that part in my post though, since i don’t like masking my own mistakes by editing them out (i will put a footnote in there though).

Warriors are certainly strong at that but right now having a condi Necro and Engi can melt your average Hambow if they aren’t terrible. In WvW balance is even less relevant because food and other buffs exist.

Again, this is true – but then again, i’am not a friend of condimancers or condispamming (especially perplexity) engineers either :P

They post threads with “suggestions” to “balance” Warriors that include making Heal Sig worse than it was pre-buff, nerfing CI, Nerfing Berserk Stance, Nerfing traits hardly anybody actually use, etc.

I think healing Signet was actually underpowered before the buff – and on non-tanky Warrior builds, it still isn’t OP right now. The only issue i have with it comes, if it is coupled with tanky gear and blocks or stuns on top of adrenalin health – only the combination of all those together is what makes the signet look OP (at least i think so), but i have honestly no idea how one could solve this – simply nerfing the signet would only screw the non-tanky Warriors using it, and that can’t be a sign of good balancing.

I’ve seen MM Necros calling the class passive and D/P Thieves calling it “cheese.”

haha, those are awesome

They also post totally false info or exaggerate the effectiveness of traits like Adrenal Health. More recently they constantly bring up the high base stats but ignore the mechanics they don’t have.

ye, for some reason there are still people thinking that adrenalin health triggers once every second (as opposed to once every three seconds as it does) – i usually step in and correct them though, if i see someone claiming this. Concerning the high base stats – well, they are helpful. Of course high base stats alone won’t make anyone invincible, it’s just a nice boost to have, and basically allow one to spec (statwise) into offensive lines while retaining the (stat induced) survivability, that other classes have to gain through traits/equipment first. Regarding the Mechanics that the Warrior lacks: sure, a Warrior doesn’t have stealth, shadowsteps or quick-invul (like mes sword#2 – i won’t mention clones since they don’t really strike me as an advantage), they can kind of make up for that though with a possibility for double endure pain (one traited and one on utility), blocks (sword, mace, shield) and a few conventional gapclosers – even though the latter can’t compare to shadowsteps in fight situations. That being said, it’s not easy to say which skills are “better”, since it’s kind of build and situation dependend

-Nero

The main issue I seem to find is that most low to medium skilled players cannot dodge pretty well and as such are highly susceptible to warriors. As the majority of the player base falls into one of the two categories of skill mentioned above a lot of the player base complains about warriors since they’re being hurt by warriors the most.

The issue here is that warriors become very weak as players approach a high level of skill where animations are easily read and interpreted and players react swiftly with blinds, blocks, dodges and invulnerability skills in order to counter what the warrior is doing.

This is actually where the warrior’s greatest weakness is – the highly telegraphed skills make a warrior very ineffective against a highly skilled player that can react and counter to what you’re about to do.

Sadly most players aren’t even close to that level and seem to consider warrior to be faceroll OP just because they can’t react/ play the game well enough to counter.

The really OP classes imo are Thief ( because stealth allows for very little smart counterplay), Mesmer ( because of the faceroll clone spam nature of the class) and Engineer ( because right now they’re probably one of the hardest class to fight against if played right).

Harper.4173:

The main issue I seem to find is that most low to medium skilled players cannot dodge pretty well and as such are highly susceptible to warriors. As the majority of the player base falls into one of the two categories of skill mentioned above a lot of the player base complains about warriors since they’re being hurt by warriors the most.

The issue here is that warriors become very weak as players approach a high level of skill where animations are easily read and interpreted and players react swiftly with blinds, blocks, dodges and invulnerability skills in order to counter what the warrior is doing.

This is actually where the warrior’s greatest weakness is – the highly telegraphed skills make a warrior very ineffective against a highly skilled player that can react and counter to what you’re about to do.

Sadly most players aren’t even close to that level and seem to consider warrior to be faceroll OP just because they can’t react/ play the game well enough to counter.

The really OP classes imo are Thief ( because stealth allows for very little smart counterplay), Mesmer ( because of the faceroll clone spam nature of the class) and Engineer ( because right now they’re probably one of the hardest class to fight against if played right).

the sad fact is that these group of players will not stop complaining until they get what they want.

: (

Junkpile.7439:

Well sPvP doesn’t tell anything about real balance.

It’s somewhat of a tricky issue. Players love their 1v1 and smallest-team arena combat.
But at the same time, the underlying mechanics of such game concepts as “classes” and “specialization” make any smaller team size automatically unbalanced.

The only problem I have with warrior is Hambow with soldier amulet. The damage and CC is strong with a ton of condition removal and CC immunity.

I think the problem with that build, and hammer builds in general, is the amount of adrenaline they generate from Cleansing Ire, allowing them to CC more, regen more health, and cleanse more often.

Carighan.6758:

Junkpile.7439:

Well sPvP doesn’t tell anything about real balance.

It’s somewhat of a tricky issue. Players love their 1v1 and smallest-team arena combat.
But at the same time, the underlying mechanics of such game concepts as “classes” and “specialization” make any smaller team size automatically unbalanced.

Well mainly i mean that fights often happen inside small circle. Of course engineer is op when his bombs and nades almost fill whole thing.

Junkpile.7439:

Carighan.6758:

Junkpile.7439:

Well sPvP doesn’t tell anything about real balance.

It’s somewhat of a tricky issue. Players love their 1v1 and smallest-team arena combat.
But at the same time, the underlying mechanics of such game concepts as “classes” and “specialization” make any smaller team size automatically unbalanced.

Well mainly i mean that fights often happen inside small circle. Of course engineer is op when his bombs and nades almost fill whole thing.

Let’s not forget how they’re one of the strongest roamers in WvW too.

BurrTheKing.8571:

phirefox…duelists, especially dedicated duelists, are not the people to ask about game balance. They say they “main” Warrior but seem to spend a large amount of time on their Thief/Mesmer. Sure that’s a bit of a strawman but in my experience T/Me players say they play Warrior and roll face on it in order to make their arguments seem more legitimate. There was someone who talked crap about Warrior on a daily basis who ended posting their PvP stats and had hardly played ANY PvP at all. The game is not and should not be balanced around 1v1 because it is a team game. Warriors are certainly strong at that but right now having a condi Necro and Engi can melt your average Hambow if they aren’t terrible. In WvW balance is even less relevant because food and other buffs exist.

Players like these will never be happy with Warrior until they can beat them 100% of the time like launch. They post threads with “suggestions” to “balance” Warriors that include making Heal Sig worse than it was pre-buff, nerfing CI, Nerfing Berserk Stance, Nerfing traits hardly anybody actually use, etc. I’ve seen MM Necros calling the class passive and D/P Thieves calling it “cheese.” They also post totally false info or exaggerate the effectiveness of traits like Adrenal Health. More recently they constantly bring up the high base stats but ignore the mechanics they don’t have.

All us War mains can do is correct the false info and avoid dropping down to their level. Sometimes I fail that, I also make the mistake of arguing when I’m lacking sleep and can barely type a full sentence.

This times over 9000.

Harper.4173:

Let’s not forget how they’re one of the strongest roamers in WvW too.

But again, that’s ultra-smallscale, usually 1v1. A PvP format specifically discourages by the game’s mechanics and systems.

Carighan.6758:

Harper.4173:

Let’s not forget how they’re one of the strongest roamers in WvW too.

But again, that’s ultra-smallscale, usually 1v1. A PvP format specifically discourages by the game’s mechanics and systems.

A PvP format, the games encourages however is fighting on cappoints, which are easily spammed with bombs or nades, enemies are easily pushed out of, thanks to instant pushback, and launch with no read at all. Add to that a chained immob and you have to ultimate 1v1 fighter for this games only PvP format.

Yes, i know, decap wasn’t played at the tournament today but only because its usefulness diminishes the more organized the group is. In soloq or single/double join teamq however this specc has an incredible risk/reward curve, requires little skill and can keep a point contested even against 2 enemies for an extended period of time.

Its a shame Anet never realised how anti-fun this playstyle is and the fact one of the devs posted something along the lines of: thanks for the info, we never knew this specc was a problem at all, shows that they are a bit clueless what the state of the game is atm, high class tournaments, like the current one or ESL aside.

PS: I think that’s mainly because decap is played more on EU while the rampant condi spam is more apparent in the US.

edit: My point is: Yes hambow is strong but there are other, more gamebreaking speccs out there.

Lifestealer.4910:

as long as PU mesmer, all thief builds, necro and engineer condition gets nerfed. Warrior nerfs would be ok.

PU Mesmer is borderline useless in tournament play because they usually have no boon strip, weak shatters, and at least one next to useless phantasm. PU is a 1v1 roaming build and a wvw build. Not viable for high end tournaments. Don’t believe me see how many mesmers were in the ToL running PU or any mesmers in ToL for that matter. .

Necro Condition builds have been nerfed hard. Power necro is actually more dangerous than a condi necro especially with things like berserker stance and diamond skin (lol at people that complain on this one) are around.

Engineer needs nerfed but indirectly the issue with engineers now is the runes of balthazaar (if those get nerfed engineers would be a lot less annoying). There is a new decap engi build that uses the boons from turrets but that is susceptible to conditions so there we have it.

Thieves die heavily to any AOE damage and wouldn’t you know what is running rampant right now… Aoe damage.

The only real issue with warriors still is a combination of the new runes of strength allowing them to hit harder than the old merciless hammer trait and the fact that an 8% nerf to healing signet was not enough. They need to nerf the base more and scale it better with healing power.

Warriors are actually in somewhat of a good spot now. The big thing that needs to be addressed is a reason to press their heal button.

They just have to quit crying, and start learning how to do something other than press all their weapon buttons in succession.

phirefox.2568:

Well, Warriors are a bit over the top. High damage Modifiers on all their weaponskills, relatively low average cooldowns amongst their weaponsets, insane access to Hard CC, useful utilitys, best base survivability (there is no such a thing as a Warrior “glass cannon” – the glass part isn’t even true if you’re running fullzerk as a warrior, at least not from the perspektive of light-armor-roamers), tons of blocks/active defense, they’re also among the best on case of mobility (cough landspeed – and don’t go and tell me that Sword or Greatsword are soo bad, because they’re actually good if you compare them to other classes weapons), among the best in terms of condition removal, high base-uptime for any condition-applications, easy access to might and fury (and even vigor when traited properly), optional near-immunity to movement impairing conditions and of course the banner of rezzing doom (for WvW zerging and/or roaming in small teams).

And all at the same time!!!!!!

Chicago Jack.5647:

Warriors are actually in somewhat of a good spot now. The big thing that needs to be addressed is a reason to press their heal button.

They just have to quit crying, and start learning how to do something other than press all their weapon buttons in succession.

I still don’t understand why people think that pressing your heal is so much more skillful than not having to press a button. Against many builds the fact that it lacks a burst of healing is very much a weakness. When a Thief loses to me it’s because they spend too much time playing passively in stealth. The longer you draw out the fight the higher the chance the Warrior will win.

Crovax.7854:

PS: I think that’s mainly because decap is played more on EU while the rampant condi spam is more apparent in the US.

I think this is more a problem with map variety.
If more maps needed more varied approaches to combat, then the issue would evaporate entirely. Especially if you cannot pre-determine your game mode. Your team has to be able to handle all of them.

Now imagine if the game modes are:

• Team Deathmatch
• Capture the Flag
• MM (the current mode of virtually all maps)
• Assault/Defend
• KotH with a very large hill.
• Bottom-Feeder / Hunter-Killer (top player of the entire match is the only one worth points for the other team, but also the only one able to score points for their own team).
• Hidden Assassins (each player has 1 enemy target they get assigned to kill, only that target is worth points, they take +25% damage from their target and no one gets their attacker as a target).

So many game modes, and you never know what might be next. Your team cannot super-specialize. The whole idea of decap-specs, 1v1 builds, it would need to pretty much evaporate for teams which either consist of all alrounders, or become well-balanced as a result of their mixed specializations.

Mind you, I think a team size of 8-10 people would work much better than the current super-smallscale teams for this. It’s very difficult to designate proper subroles in such tiny teams.

Carighan.6758:

Mind you, I think a team size of 8-10 people would work much better than the current super-smallscale teams for this. It’s very difficult to designate proper subroles in such tiny teams.

8 man teams in hotjoin were an ultra spamfest and even now,
i struggle to stay alive with my thief in teamfights, when going in.
As you might have seen in the ToL, the most prominent style for thieves was to stay out, use low damage SB and just going in at the very end when there weren’t as much AoEs around.
10-15man worked worlds better in games like WoW because of three reasons:
AoE weren’t as abundant and dealt much lower damage
Normal attacks and skills don’t cleave
Healers

Yes, but game modes which force you to split up effectively lower the team size. That’s why I thought they need to be increased in size, too.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I still don’t understand why people think that pressing your heal is so much more skillful than not having to press a button.

that’s because you are spoiled by warr with HS. you never need to plan the use of your healing skill to make sure it doesn’t get interrupted. it does need more skill to avoid a 5/10 sec block than an unstoppable 4k/10sec healing (that’s why i suck with ele).

BurrTheKing.8571:

Against many builds the fact that it lacks a burst of healing is very much a weakness. When a Thief loses to me it’s because they spend too much time playing passively in stealth. The longer you draw out the fight the higher the chance the Warrior will win.

that has nothing to do with your skill as a player. the ability to stretch the fight to length, get short pauses etc. is built in the class. it’s not only the warriors strength to more easily gain the upper hand the longer the fight lasts (which would be legitimate), the problem is that the class itself enforces long encounters and other classes can do nothing about it.

Lifestealer.4910:

oh and forgot to add, how broken thieves are in wvw and spvp with those 13k+ backstabs.

Remember, warriors only have frontsides. There is no other sides to a warrior. Its all forward…

phirefox.2568:

Simon.3794:

i dont know why would you post this, everyone that is not some ridiculous noob, hj hero or wvw random pvdoors know that right now the fotm is necro and engi, and thief keep dominate everyone with zerkers(well maybe not, but we will see when the meta settle) and hambow is still strong as well, but that’s it.

and just ignore randoms like phirefox.2568, non of he said make sense or even show that he plays the class even a bit, don’t ever try to argue with someone that only plays one class or two and pretend like they know everything, especially not some pro scout that don’t fight and zerg, it only makes you dumber.

actually i’am a duelist in OS, not a zergling. You can ask lavra for that if you want, he was (or is? i don’t know anymore since i switched to abaddon recently) a duelist on Dzagonur (@lavra: i’am Nero A. :P). I got a Thief, a Mesmer, an engineer, a Warrior and A Ranger, so no, i’am not just playing one or two classes.

So please tell me, which of my points don’t make sense, and please give me an explanation as to what exactly leads to them being wrong. Thanks in advance!

Before we start talking about your balancing flaws, let me explain to you why wvwers have no right to talk about balance.
Food are like another armor piece, no, not just that, some classes can achieve up to 90%+ soft cc immune combined with trait and runes. how is that not ridiculously op, and condition builds can build up insane condition duration, if you have no -condition duration, you will most likely get trained so hard
and you know whats the best builds in wvw? the nooby ones, the shadow rejunv thieves roamer everywhere, PU mesmer, in trains, there are hammer guard war, then there are runes of perplexity.

Lifestealer.4910:

oh and forgot to add, how broken thieves are in wvw and spvp with those 13k+ backstabs.

I’ve seen warriors hit ~13k with Final Thrust and that takes very little set up.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Lifestealer.4910:

oh and forgot to add, how broken thieves are in wvw and spvp with those 13k+ backstabs.

I’ve seen warriors hit ~13k with Final Thrust and that takes very little set up.

So, here’s a laundry list of things wrong with your statement.

1. To hit something that high both parities would have to be pure glass, or the target was an uplevel. The target also has to be below 50%.

2. Little setup? Are you joking!? Final Thrust has a long channel time and short range. Hitting it w/o Shield Bash, Bull’s Charge, or Flurry (which to hit that 1k would probably require Berserker’s Power so you would want a full adren bar, further limiting your options).

3. Power Sword is no longer worth running. I used to have a decent Sword/Shield + LB power build but with Arcing Arrow being nerfed by more than just the 15% advertised (thanks to the Ferocity nerf) the damage just isn’t there anymore. With Evis you can hit hard w/o the 50% HP requirement. Even running pure DPS axe you would have to be squishy as hell to be hit for 13k, especially in PvP.

I can go on but I think you get the point. Stop exaggerating.

I’m just here to point out that using 1v1s to examine balance in this game makes very little sense.
If you did, every single skill or trait with support attached would automatically be underpowered, because support doesn’t win 1v1s. 1v1s also get rid of about half the depth of the game. Things like surprise, teamfighting skills, AoE, teamcomp, map awareness, and even things like combofields are vastly different with other people.
So stop trying to balance around WvW solo roaming, because that will unbalance every other area of the game.

if you look at how this game works 1v1, and people used classes by that “norm” then you’d see condi rangers, PU Mesmers, condi thieves and condi engies all over the place… and trust me, condi rangers are not to be taken lightly (as a few condi necros found out when trying to compete with me today )

BurrTheKing.8571:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Lifestealer.4910:

oh and forgot to add, how broken thieves are in wvw and spvp with those 13k+ backstabs.

I’ve seen warriors hit ~13k with Final Thrust and that takes very little set up.

So, here’s a laundry list of things wrong with your statement.

1. To hit something that high both parities would have to be pure glass, or the target was an uplevel. The target also has to be below 50%.

2. Little setup? Are you joking!? Final Thrust has a long channel time and short range. Hitting it w/o Shield Bash, Bull’s Charge, or Flurry (which to hit that 1k would probably require Berserker’s Power so you would want a full adren bar, further limiting your options).

3. Power Sword is no longer worth running. I used to have a decent Sword/Shield + LB power build but with Arcing Arrow being nerfed by more than just the 15% advertised (thanks to the Ferocity nerf) the damage just isn’t there anymore. With Evis you can hit hard w/o the 50% HP requirement. Even running pure DPS axe you would have to be squishy as hell to be hit for 13k, especially in PvP.

I can go on but I think you get the point. Stop exaggerating.

I’m not exaggerating. Here is a few things that FT has over Backstab:

1.) Final Thrust has a higher damage modifier than Backstab. So given the same stats and bonuses, Final Thrust would hit harder.

2.) Final Thrust doesn’t require the Warrior to be stealthed or be behind the target for it to work. It just needs the target to have half health. This gives warrior a greater advantage than thieves in this area because while the thief HAS to be in stealth for them to use it, their window of opportunity is limited and if they don’t land it properly it makes the fight harder for them. Warrior can use their FT whenever it isn’t on cooldown.

3.) Final Thrust cleaves, so even if there were multiple bodies nearby the target would still get hit. Backstab does not cleave though and with other bodies around the target, the backstab has a chance to hit one of them instead.

4.) With flurry being the burst for sword mainhand, the warrior can pin them for up to 4s with the burst, cancel early and then use FT instead of burning a stun beforehand.

And then there is eviscerate.

yolo swaggins.2570:

BurrTheKing.8571:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Lifestealer.4910:

oh and forgot to add, how broken thieves are in wvw and spvp with those 13k+ backstabs.

I’ve seen warriors hit ~13k with Final Thrust and that takes very little set up.

So, here’s a laundry list of things wrong with your statement.

1. To hit something that high both parities would have to be pure glass, or the target was an uplevel. The target also has to be below 50%.

2. Little setup? Are you joking!? Final Thrust has a long channel time and short range. Hitting it w/o Shield Bash, Bull’s Charge, or Flurry (which to hit that 1k would probably require Berserker’s Power so you would want a full adren bar, further limiting your options).

3. Power Sword is no longer worth running. I used to have a decent Sword/Shield + LB power build but with Arcing Arrow being nerfed by more than just the 15% advertised (thanks to the Ferocity nerf) the damage just isn’t there anymore. With Evis you can hit hard w/o the 50% HP requirement. Even running pure DPS axe you would have to be squishy as hell to be hit for 13k, especially in PvP.

I can go on but I think you get the point. Stop exaggerating.

I’m not exaggerating. Here is a few things that FT has over Backstab:

1.) Final Thrust has a higher damage modifier than Backstab. So given the same stats and bonuses, Final Thrust would hit harder.

2.) Final Thrust doesn’t require the Warrior to be stealthed or be behind the target for it to work. It just needs the target to have half health. This gives warrior a greater advantage than thieves in this area because while the thief HAS to be in stealth for them to use it, their window of opportunity is limited and if they don’t land it properly it makes the fight harder for them. Warrior can use their FT whenever it isn’t on cooldown.

3.) Final Thrust cleaves, so even if there were multiple bodies nearby the target would still get hit. Backstab does not cleave though and with other bodies around the target, the backstab has a chance to hit one of them instead.

4.) With flurry being the burst for sword mainhand, the warrior can pin them for up to 4s with the burst, cancel early and then use FT instead of burning a stun beforehand.

And then there is eviscerate.

You always manage to impress me with your ability to miss the point.

You totally ignored the MASSIVE negative that I posted, the main one being that POWER SWORD IS BAD.

I am giving a comparison based on wiki. It doesn’t matter if power sword is bad because what I stated is the truth. Power sword might not be as viable as Hambow or stunlock builds but it can still work in a power build.

EDIT: You know what, as someone who spends a good amount of time on the warrior forum, please explain to me how power sword is bad.

watched the EU PVP tourn earlier… saw no necros or engis on the winning team. so weird

yolo swaggins.2570:

I am giving a comparison based on wiki. It doesn’t matter if power sword is bad because what I stated is the truth. Power sword might not be as viable as Hambow or stunlock builds but it can still work in a power build.

EDIT: You know what, as someone who spends a good amount of time on the warrior forum, please explain to me how power sword is bad.

Power sword used to be decent with run with bow using traits like 0/4/4/0/6. You force them to fight in the Combustive Shot and land Arcing Arrow then swap to sword and land Final Thrust for the finish. Arching shot was nerfed for 15% on top of the ferocity nerf and now it’s better to just use it for might stacking on a condi build. Believe it or not what also helped was keeping up Fire Shields with Bull’s Charge, Sagage Leap, and Shield Bash. You had no real condi damage but it was always on. That damage is still there but Arcing Arrow was the main damage dealer. You could still run it, but other power builds will out-DPS you now (Meditation Guardian, most Thieves with half a brain). I use Axe now because of the Sigil of Intelligence buff and because the auto attack isn’t bogged down by having conditions it doesn’t need for Power.

Alright I see what you are saying.

yolo swaggins.2570:

BurrTheKing.8571:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Lifestealer.4910:

oh and forgot to add, how broken thieves are in wvw and spvp with those 13k+ backstabs.

I’ve seen warriors hit ~13k with Final Thrust and that takes very little set up.

So, here’s a laundry list of things wrong with your statement.

1. To hit something that high both parities would have to be pure glass, or the target was an uplevel. The target also has to be below 50%.

2. Little setup? Are you joking!? Final Thrust has a long channel time and short range. Hitting it w/o Shield Bash, Bull’s Charge, or Flurry (which to hit that 1k would probably require Berserker’s Power so you would want a full adren bar, further limiting your options).

3. Power Sword is no longer worth running. I used to have a decent Sword/Shield + LB power build but with Arcing Arrow being nerfed by more than just the 15% advertised (thanks to the Ferocity nerf) the damage just isn’t there anymore. With Evis you can hit hard w/o the 50% HP requirement. Even running pure DPS axe you would have to be squishy as hell to be hit for 13k, especially in PvP.

I can go on but I think you get the point. Stop exaggerating.

I’m not exaggerating. Here is a few things that FT has over Backstab:

1.) Final Thrust has a higher damage modifier than Backstab. So given the same stats and bonuses, Final Thrust would hit harder.

2.) Final Thrust doesn’t require the Warrior to be stealthed or be behind the target for it to work. It just needs the target to have half health. This gives warrior a greater advantage than thieves in this area because while the thief HAS to be in stealth for them to use it, their window of opportunity is limited and if they don’t land it properly it makes the fight harder for them. Warrior can use their FT whenever it isn’t on cooldown.

3.) Final Thrust cleaves, so even if there were multiple bodies nearby the target would still get hit. Backstab does not cleave though and with other bodies around the target, the backstab has a chance to hit one of them instead.

4.) With flurry being the burst for sword mainhand, the warrior can pin them for up to 4s with the burst, cancel early and then use FT instead of burning a stun beforehand.

And then there is eviscerate.

If you think final thrust is any easier to land then backstab you are simply wrong. stealth is not a flaw to backstab, its a plus, you can land it easier when enemy don’t know where you are, you can even simply chain with steal to have a easier time reaching to the enemy

and final thrust? you can miss the dam thing when the enemy just walking left and right in front of you face, and i’ll tell you another thing, it only does damage when enemy is 50% lower HP, i know, mind blown, heres another one, it has a 15 second cool down, now link with how often it misses, and look back to backstab, i know if you still haven’t change your mind, you need some help.

oh btw, i don’t know in what unbalanced wvw or really rare not “easy setup” situation you have seen it.
but im 30 10 0 0 30 zerker with signet of rage buff runes of strength and full adrenaline with berserker power, and i only hit 7-8k on crit depends on golem with that thing in pvp.