Guild Wars 2

Engineer, Elementalist, Mesmer, Warrior, Ranger

Try to come up with a reason why necro’s are… I’ll gladly accept the challenge.

HealingSoooShavedSignet should be nr#2 and idk how you forgot guardian

Don’t worry, with signet of vampire, and unholy sanctuary buff, we’ll be the best at attrition!

Oh right +Guardian ty ty

TheDevice.2751:

Engineer, Elementalist, Mesmer, Warrior, Ranger

Try to come up with a reason why necro’s are… I’ll gladly accept the challenge.

Necromancer’s

They have twice the hit points of any of those professions.

35% up time on protection.

The ability to corrupt those professions boons into conditions.

The ability to remove, transfer, or consume condition at the highest rate of all the profession.

Highest condition damage out put.

coglin.1867:

TheDevice.2751:

Engineer, Elementalist, Mesmer, Warrior, Ranger

Try to come up with a reason why necro’s are… I’ll gladly accept the challenge.

Necromancer’s

They have twice the hit points of any of those professions.

35% up time on protection.

The ability to corrupt those professions boons into conditions.

The ability to remove, transfer, or consume condition at the highest rate of all the profession.

Highest condition damage out put.

Attrition is about slowly wearing your opponents down the longer fight goes on. Explain how thats possible when all those classes can out sustain the necro and the necro cannot survive a drawn out fight. This is why necros run condi or power burst builds. Sustain is so bad we are forced to play go all in or die.

coglin.1867:

TheDevice.2751:

Engineer, Elementalist, Mesmer, Warrior, Ranger

Try to come up with a reason why necro’s are… I’ll gladly accept the challenge.

Necromancer’s

They have twice the hit points of any of those professions.

35% up time on protection.

The ability to corrupt those professions boons into conditions.

The ability to remove, transfer, or consume condition at the highest rate of all the profession.

Highest condition damage out put.

With 0 substain, attrition is simply non existant.

Also, no viable build has “35% up time on protection”. Don’t mislead people with misinformations.

Poplolita.2638:

Also, no viable build has “35% up time on protection”. Don’t mislead people with misinformations.

Are you disputing my facts? Seems your making accusations with no context.

A “well” build with Ritual of Protection is not viable?

coglin.1867:

TheDevice.2751:

Engineer, Elementalist, Mesmer, Warrior, Ranger

Try to come up with a reason why necro’s are… I’ll gladly accept the challenge.

Necromancer’s

They have twice the hit points of any of those professions.

35% up time on protection.

The ability to corrupt those professions boons into conditions.

The ability to remove, transfer, or consume condition at the highest rate of all the profession.

Highest condition damage out put.

Thats called being durable. sustain means actually slowly killing someone while staying pretty healthy through out the battle. if anything, you just described a bursty Pure damage caster with some ability to deal with pure damage himself. That doesnt mean he can sustain though.

coglin.1867:

Poplolita.2638:

Also, no viable build has “35% up time on protection”. Don’t mislead people with misinformations.

Are you disputing my facts? Seems your making accusations with no context.

A “well” build with Ritual of Protection is not viable?

No, not viable

15/characters

coglin.1867:

Poplolita.2638:

Also, no viable build has “35% up time on protection”. Don’t mislead people with misinformations.

Are you disputing my facts? Seems your making accusations with no context.

A “well” build with Ritual of Protection is not viable?

No.

Don’t you have to be durable in order to survive well enough to define a a battle as one of attrition?

I just described a bursty Pure damage caster? How so? The only damage I mentioned what so ever was damage over time. Care to explain how you got “pure burst damage” out of all that I said?

coglin.1867:

TheDevice.2751:

Engineer, Elementalist, Mesmer, Warrior, Ranger

Try to come up with a reason why necro’s are… I’ll gladly accept the challenge.

Necromancer’s

They have twice the hit points of any of those professions.

35% up time on protection.

The ability to corrupt those professions boons into conditions.

The ability to remove, transfer, or consume condition at the highest rate of all the profession.

Highest condition damage out put.

Now we’re talking…

Lets talk about those numbers shall we:

As it is that 35% uptime on protection is about 10 seconds every 40 seconds (if traited). That leaves 30 seconds w/o protection no matter how you spin it. It doesnt take 30 seconds to kill a necromancer.

When you say corrupting boons you’re obviously talking about corrupt boon and thats only 5 boons every 32 seconds (if traited). Almost every single class in the game can restack those boon under 10 seconds while also removing those conditions.

You’re talking about the highest condition damage output in the game if other classes had no defense against conditions. You take out the real-play factor in that statement.

4/8 professions can go stealth which is a soft counter to almost every one of the necro’s skills since they are mostly target-based.

Hit points are only an issue if they can be replenished and our blood trait line is the weakest trait line.

We’re talking about prolonged fighting, staying in the fight, and ultimately wearing the enemy down.

All other professions have more skills and shorter cooldowns aside from maybe warrior who relies on passive bonuses like constant 340 health regen in or out of combat. In addition to those short cooldowns and more skills they have CC which will interrupt causing people without stability (necromancer) to fall further behind the skill count being used (also adding interrupt recharge timers).

What you stated is that necromancers have burst defense and burst damage. We cant win against other professions in prolonged combat because the number of skills being used will always favor the opposition. This is an ancient technique called arithmetic. If they are spamming skill after skill after skill after skill while also interrupting your few skills (which also have low cooldown) they are winning the fight.

TheDevice.2751:

As it is that 35% uptime on protection is about 10 seconds every 40 seconds (if traited). That leaves 30 seconds w/o protection no matter how you spin it. It doesnt take 30 seconds to kill a necromancer.

This might be relevant if didn’t apply to every other profession as well.

Poplolita.2638:

coglin.1867:

Poplolita.2638:

Also, no viable build has “35% up time on protection”. Don’t mislead people with misinformations.

Are you disputing my facts? Seems your making accusations with no context.

A “well” build with Ritual of Protection is not viable?

No.

What changed with wells that they are no longer viable? or are you simply trolling?

We have some necromancer commanders who run front line well builds in tier 1 WvW servers who have some pretty good videos that disagree with you.

coglin.1867:

They have twice the hit points of any of those professions.

The problem here is that, given the necros low dmg output and the lack of damage mitigation boons (yes, even with protection), this still isn’t enough. If they want health to be the necros primary “attrition tool” then they have to give him a lot more of it, enough to survive all the burst and cc he can’t deal with.

coglin.1867:

Don’t you have to be durable in order to survive well enough to define a a battle as one of attrition?

It won’t matter how durable you are when you’re constantly trying to figure out which way is up after being slapped all over the map.

TheDevice.2751:

What you stated is that necromancers have burst damage.

Quote the post I made this statement please.

Jayce.5632:

It won’t matter how durable you are when you’re constantly trying to figure out which way is up after being slapped all over the map.

It will matter more if you learn to dodge CC skills and use your blinds.

dancingmonkey.4902:

TheDevice.2751:

As it is that 35% uptime on protection is about 10 seconds every 40 seconds (if traited). That leaves 30 seconds w/o protection no matter how you spin it. It doesnt take 30 seconds to kill a necromancer.

This might be relevant if didn’t apply to every other profession as well.

Poplolita.2638:

coglin.1867:

Poplolita.2638:

Also, no viable build has “35% up time on protection”. Don’t mislead people with misinformations.

Are you disputing my facts? Seems your making accusations with no context.

A “well” build with Ritual of Protection is not viable?

No.

What changed with wells that they are no longer viable? or are you simply trolling?

We have some necromancer commanders who run front line well builds in tier 1 WvW servers who have some pretty good videos that disagree with you.

The well build you’re talking about doesn’t go in death magic. Also, never said well is not viable.

Poplolita.2638:

The well build you’re talking about doesn’t go in death magic. Also, never said well is not viable.

Wait, you know specifically what builds the necromancer commanders on the tier one servers are using in front line commanding? can you post it for us?

Allow me to expand…

We also have no power ranged weapon meaning if a fight calls for positioning (every fight) a constant direct damage ranged attack will provide more for withering down health than conditions when there are so many defenses against them. We cant keep up with even a ranger / warrior / or engineer in aa when it comes to attrition.

We also have the lowest crit power potential. You can reply with lich but thats again countering your defense since that is purely a burst mechanic.

Since we are a burst class; We should have burst potential equal to a thief. Even thieves have better attrition since stealth is their most used mechanic and stealth controls all fights.

There was a new reveal skill being introduced.. did we get it? Nope. Guess who got that? Engineer. We are non support, non-utility, non attrition, non viable burst, non mobile, non pretty much anything else you can think of.

Where are all those tourney necro’s? I swear the only pro player necro is zombify and last i heard he was flipping tables and prolly not streaming anymore.

dancingmonkey.4902:

TheDevice.2751:

As it is that 35% uptime on protection is about 10 seconds every 40 seconds (if traited). That leaves 30 seconds w/o protection no matter how you spin it. It doesnt take 30 seconds to kill a necromancer.

This might be relevant if didn’t apply to every other profession as well.

Poplolita.2638:

coglin.1867:

Poplolita.2638:

Also, no viable build has “35% up time on protection”. Don’t mislead people with misinformations.

Are you disputing my facts? Seems your making accusations with no context.

A “well” build with Ritual of Protection is not viable?

No.

What changed with wells that they are no longer viable? or are you simply trolling?

We have some necromancer commanders who run front line well builds in tier 1 WvW servers who have some pretty good videos that disagree with you.

You are misinformed. A well build wouldn’t take ritual of protection over staff mastery, and that’s only if they run 0/2/2/4/6 over 6/2/0/0/6. There’s also the outdated ascii build which is 0/5/4/4 I believe.

People that don’t seriously play necro in WvW or pvp shouldn’t be commenting on them like they actually know the class.

coglin.1867:

Don’t you have to be durable in order to survive well enough to define a a battle as one of attrition?

I just described a bursty Pure damage caster? How so? The only damage I mentioned what so ever was damage over time. Care to explain how you got “pure burst damage” out of all that I said?

Let me put it this way, Its not mitigated by armor. it attacks your hp directly. Yes, being durable is part of winning attrition, but the problem lies with the fact that while necromancer has this durability, they dont have the means to ‘keep pressure’ on people like other classes do. S/D thief is a good example of something that is surprisingly pretty good at attrition. It does sustained damage and spends most of the time wearing the opponent down with boon steals, dazes and weakness.

Point is, Necromancer lacks the main thing that would help them in attrition; stability.

I guess I should also mention the ‘burst’ part comes from high damaging conditions stacking with things such as terror+ torment.

coglin.1867:

Jayce.5632:

It won’t matter how durable you are when you’re constantly trying to figure out which way is up after being slapped all over the map.

It will matter more if you learn to dodge CC skills and use your blinds.

Ok, I’ll bite. Just how long do you think a necro can ride that dodge and blind train?

coglin.1867:

TheDevice.2751:

What you stated is that necromancers have burst damage.

Quote the post I made this statement please.

You’re confusing yourself cog. What you said.. the point you were trying to make actually implies that we have burst damage and defense, not the other way around. What you said does not mean we have attrition, it means we have the opposite.

You didn’t literally say we have burst. Your arguments ended up saying that even though you meant them to say we have attrition.

nearlight.3064:

You are misinformed. A well build wouldn’t take ritual of protection over staff mastery, and that’s only if they run 0/2/2/4/6 over 6/2/0/0/6. There’s also the outdated ascii build which is 0/5/4/4 I believe.

Aww, how cute. You use mis information to suggest another is misinformed.

Why would a D/D…… D/WH……A/A……….or A/WH front line, well necro want staff mastery?

nearlight.3064:

You are misinformed. A well build wouldn’t take ritual of protection over staff mastery, and that’s only if they run 0/2/2/4/6 over 6/2/0/0/6. There’s also the outdated ascii build which is 0/5/4/4 I believe.

People that don’t seriously play necro in WvW or pvp shouldn’t be commenting on them like they actually know the class.

Ahem, I commanded on Jade Quarry for 6 hours last night (as well as regularly on other nights) on a build your suggesting does not exist. How is that possible?

TheDevice.2751:

coglin.1867:

TheDevice.2751:

What you stated is that necromancers have burst damage.

Quote the post I made this statement please.

You’re confusing yourself cog. What you said.. the point you where trying to make actually implies that we have burst damage and defense, not the other way around. What you said does not mean we have attrition, it means we have the opposite.

You didn’t literally say we have burst. Your arguments ended up saying that even though you meant them to say we have attrition.

Seems a little presumptuous to tell another what they meant.

Please do not read things into my argument, or tell me what my argument is, then use that as a basis for accusation. All I was doing was pointing out the defensive capability that allows them to last long enough to consider a battle, one of attrition.

I was following until I saw stability it’ s just like between Burst Mastery and Brawler’s Recovery knowing that conditions are their affiliated weakness, we need recovery and uptime one.

coglin.1867:

Poplolita.2638:

Also, no viable build has “35% up time on protection”. Don’t mislead people with misinformations.

Are you disputing my facts? Seems your making accusations with no context.

A “well” build with Ritual of Protection is not viable?

Yes, it is not viable. Stop trolling coglin

I got top100 EU soloQ just with it once. Its is absolutely nothing in comparison to the meta builds.

Edit: I see you command WvW.
Thats not balance , its numbers vs numbers. And if equal, its
40% guard +
40% warior +
15% wellbomb necro +
2x mesmer veilbots
That is a joke of balance and as such wvw is not at focus. Please dont use your wvw knowledge in any balance discusions, unless you say its in wvw.

dancingmonkey.4902:

nearlight.3064:

You are misinformed. A well build wouldn’t take ritual of protection over staff mastery, and that’s only if they run 0/2/2/4/6 over 6/2/0/0/6. There’s also the outdated ascii build which is 0/5/4/4 I believe.

Aww, how cute. You use mis information to suggest another is misinformed.

Why would a D/D…… D/WH……A/A……….or A/WH front line, well necro want staff mastery?

My build is modeled after this guys build. He’s a necromancer in [NS] a top tier GvG guild on my server.

You still take staff as an aside weapon for each of those builds. If you want to do well, you don’t camp out in one weapon forever. WvW battles are about movement, adapting, and coordination. It helps to have a lower cooldown on staff skills to increase your potential AoE output while your wells are on cooldown or you don’t have enough life force to life blast your enemies. Its a lot more effiecient than spamming axe autoattacks..

Dagger probably would be more efficient, especially with the new semi cleave, but in a situation where people are constantly moving, its hard to land the autos without burning your immoba, and when that imoba is on CD you’re better off switching to staff. Mark bombs are also a great tactic to baiting out defenses and jukes before attacking with chills and wellbombs.

coglin.1867:

TheDevice.2751:

coglin.1867:

TheDevice.2751:

What you stated is that necromancers have burst damage.

Quote the post I made this statement please.

You’re confusing yourself cog. What you said.. the point you where trying to make actually implies that we have burst damage and defense, not the other way around. What you said does not mean we have attrition, it means we have the opposite.

You didn’t literally say we have burst. Your arguments ended up saying that even though you meant them to say we have attrition.

Seems a little presumptuous to tell another what they meant.

Please do not read things into my argument, or tell me what my argument is, then use that as a basis for accusation. All I was doing was pointing out the defensive capability that allows them to last long enough to consider a battle, one of attrition.

It’s not presumptuous at all lol. You just said yourself right now that that’s what you meant in that original statement which was to prove with those arguments that we have attrition. I gave examples of how this logic is backwards. You pointed out defensive capabilities that are not helpful to winning in attrition in real play. So what I did was reply to that statement showing how that was the way I said it was.

I wasn’t reading into your argument and invoking some nonsense, I countered with an argument of my own and gave reasons for it.

nearlight.3064:

My build is modeled after this guys build. He’s a necromancer in [NS] a top tier GvG guild on my server.

What does your build have to do with what I am talking about?

By the way, How to you get to the GvG game mode??? I cannot find that button in game.

TheDevice.2751:

It’s not presumptuous at all lol. You just said yourself right now that that’s what you meant in that original statement which was to prove with those arguments that we have attrition. I gave examples of how this logic is backwards. You pointed out defensive capabilities that are not helpful to winning in attrition in real play. So what I did was reply to that statement showing how that was the way I said it was.

I wasn’t reading into your argument and invoking some nonsense, I countered with an argument of my own and gave reasons for it.

I am not following what your saying here. All I read in what he said was about defense and how it relates to attrition. He never seems to go into offensiveness at all. Are you certain you know what attrition means in this context?

By attrition they refer to cutting the enemy off from their boons, cutting them off from landing attacks, with blinds, and cutting off their heals with poison.

dancingmonkey.4902:

nearlight.3064:

My build is modeled after this guys build. He’s a necromancer in [NS] a top tier GvG guild on my server.

What does your build have to do with what I am talking about?

By the way, How to you get to the GvG game mode??? I cannot find that button in game.

Don’t be facetious. GvG is this fun thing that the community on T2 and lower servers organize and do, in which well necros are a core member of. Its a way for us guilds to test our mettle instead of PPTing all day like you would in T1 land!

Anyway I was using that build, which I use a very similar version of (Warhorn over OH dagger) to tell you that serious players do use staff mastery on their well builds over laudable traits like ritual of protection. So yes, staff mastery is what most informed necromancers would run over ritual of protection, and does them good if you listen to the whole video’s commentary.

Thats like taking oakheart salve over offhand training as a ranger or protection injection over backpack regenerator as an engineer.

nearlight.3064:

Don’t be facetious. GvG is this fun thing that the community on T2 and lower servers organize and do, in which well necros are a core member of. Its a way for us guilds to test our mettle instead of PPTing all day like you would in T1 land!

That is cute and all, you know, how your insecurity about what your saying causes you to try to sneak in little insults such as “serious” players………… but how does your GvG on one tier of servers have anything to do with actual organized WvW play on another tier of servers

dancingmonkey.4902:

nearlight.3064:

My build is modeled after this guys build. He’s a necromancer in [NS] a top tier GvG guild on my server.

What does your build have to do with what I am talking about?

By the way, How to you get to the GvG game mode??? I cannot find that button in game.

TheDevice.2751:

It’s not presumptuous at all lol. You just said yourself right now that that’s what you meant in that original statement which was to prove with those arguments that we have attrition. I gave examples of how this logic is backwards. You pointed out defensive capabilities that are not helpful to winning in attrition in real play. So what I did was reply to that statement showing how that was the way I said it was.

I wasn’t reading into your argument and invoking some nonsense, I countered with an argument of my own and gave reasons for it.

I am not following what your saying here. All I read in what he said was about defense and how it relates to attrition. He never seems to go into offensiveness at all. Are you certain you know what attrition means in this context?

By attrition they refer to cutting the enemy off from their boons, cutting them off from landing attacks, with blinds, and cutting off their heals with poison.

Are you sure you know what attrition means? It means we are able to “cut the enemy off from their boons, cut them of from landing attacks (with blinds), and cut off their heals with poison”. Have you ever played a necromancer? Do you know how many blinds they have? Do you know how many boon flips they have? At what rate they can use these? Do you know how many defenses all other classes have against conditions?

If you want to say “hey necros can deal damage with their basic attack.. Thats something, right? There’s your attrition” And completely ignore all other information about the game then go right ahead. You’re not proving anything.

“hey a necro can gain protection for 10 seconds.. thats attrition right?” Whats the cooldown? What about other players protection? How can they coutner conditions? How many blinds do they have? How much cc do they have? How much stability do they have?

dancingmonkey.4902:

nearlight.3064:

Don’t be facetious. GvG is this fun thing that the community on T2 and lower servers organize and do, in which well necros are a core member of. Its a way for us guilds to test our mettle instead of PPTing all day like you would in T1 land!

That is cute and all, but how does your GvG on one tier of servers have anything to do with actual organized WvW play on another tier of servers

Well we’ll find out how good we are at fighting off T1 mega-blobs if SoS gets picked to go up against your T1 server in the season 3 WvW tournament

GvG has everything to do with WvW. I mean you don’t try to karma train around enemy zergs right? You actually fight eachother over objectives, and the same tactics you’d find in GvGs are the same tactics you’d find in any large scale WvW fight. And yeah, ofc its organized.

dancingmonkey.4902:

nearlight.3064:

My build is modeled after this guys build. He’s a necromancer in [NS] a top tier GvG guild on my server.

What does your build have to do with what I am talking about?

By the way, How to you get to the GvG game mode??? I cannot find that button in game.

TheDevice.2751:

It’s not presumptuous at all lol. You just said yourself right now that that’s what you meant in that original statement which was to prove with those arguments that we have attrition. I gave examples of how this logic is backwards. You pointed out defensive capabilities that are not helpful to winning in attrition in real play. So what I did was reply to that statement showing how that was the way I said it was.

I wasn’t reading into your argument and invoking some nonsense, I countered with an argument of my own and gave reasons for it.

I am not following what your saying here. All I read in what he said was about defense and how it relates to attrition. He never seems to go into offensiveness at all. Are you certain you know what attrition means in this context?

By attrition they refer to cutting the enemy off from their boons, cutting them off from landing attacks, with blinds, and cutting off their heals with poison.

And if you were actually curious on what attrition means, it’s to wear you opponent down. Winning by attrition. This should happen over a longer period of time (counter to burst).

The act or process of weakening and gradually defeating an enemy through constant attacks and continued pressure over a long period of time

weakening by removing, stripping, and converting boons, while removing conditions facter then any other profession can. Gradually defeating by transferring their conditions back on them and maintaining out damage over time tics up on them.

Good luck suggesting that mesmers or engineers can even touch that. Conditions destroy them both, they are the two worst professions for condition removal. Warriors and their hambow are getting a nerf in that particular area. Ele
s are generally considered burst, not attrition builds in their profession. Rangers, well, meh.

dancingmonkey.4902:

The act or process of weakening and gradually defeating an enemy through constant attacks and continued pressure over a long period of time

weakening by removing, stripping, and converting boons, while removing conditions facter then any other profession can. Gradually defeating by transferring their conditions back on them and maintaining out damage over time tics up on them.

Good job. Now can we actually do those things? Do we actually provide enough pressure to defeat anyone? Like I said previously, look at what other classes can do.

If we had non stop bleed, poison, torment on all of our basic attacks which critically struck for 5k each… it wouldnt matter if the other classes had permanent invulnerability. So then would we still have attrition? Would we do anything? No. We wouldn’t.

You’re good at saying what we can do but conveniently leave out what other classes can do and at the rate they can do them.

TheDevice.2751:

Good job. Now can we actually do those things?

Absolutely, see above post.

TheDevice.2751:

Do we actually provide enough pressure to defeat anyone?

Absolutely. The highest condition damage out pt in the game. As a matter of fact there was a strong showing of them in the recent ToL2. They post tourny class chart showed them being the 4th most played profession.

TheDevice.2751:

Like I said previously, look at what other classes can do.

I do, thanks. I have leveled all 8 professions in WvW long ago. I either play differently then you, play different builds then you, or disagree with you.

dancingmonkey.4902:

TheDevice.2751:

Good job. Now can we actually do those things?

Absolutely, see above post.

TheDevice.2751:

Do we actually provide enough pressure to defeat anyone?

Absolutely. The highest condition damage out pt in the game. As a matter of fact there was a strong showing of them in the recent ToL2. They post tourny class chart showed them being the 4th most played profession.

TheDevice.2751:

Like I said previously, look at what other classes can do.

I do, thanks. I have leveled all 8 professions in WvW long ago. I either play differently then you, play different builds then you, or disagree with you.

I’m not sure if I would call necromancers as the single class with the highest condition output, especially compared to what engineers and soon to be buffed mesmers will put out after the patch. If you want to do the math and find out all the skills which apply conditions, go ahead.

And yeah ToL had a surprising amount of necromancers, mainly because they counter much of the might stacking meta so well. I wouldn’t call that attrition though, since they rely on things like corrupt boon and fear chaining to win in one 1v1s, while applying AoE pressure and more focused condition bursts in team fights. The only thing about the patch that kittenes me off is that the meta spec for necromancers won’t change. It’ll still be carrion PoC terror reaper’s prot with nightmare runes. A necromancer can be a huge boon to a team if they can avoid being focused too frequently and if their team can reliably peel enemies off them to keep them from being focused. One of the reason’s noscoc did so well in ToL against apex is because he had Zoose bursting down anyone that looked at him the wrong way, as well as invincible enigneers that kept pressure up during teamfights.

dancingmonkey.4902:

TheDevice.2751:

Good job. Now can we actually do those things?

Absolutely, see above post.

TheDevice.2751:

Do we actually provide enough pressure to defeat anyone?

Absolutely. The highest condition damage out pt in the game. As a matter of fact there was a strong showing of them in the recent ToL2. They post tourny class chart showed them being the 4th most played profession.

TheDevice.2751:

Like I said previously, look at what other classes can do.

I do, thanks. I have leveled all 8 professions in WvW long ago. I either play differently then you, play different builds then you, or disagree with you.

Did you really read what I said or are you just satisfied with “or [I] disagree with you”.

Did you ever see the SOAC mesmers vs necromancers? Did you see how zombify played in the all-stars? (the only necro btw)

When you say these things.. do you just say them?

TheDevice.2751:

When you say these things.. do you just say them?

Do you? You appear to feel it is necessary to throw in a backhanded remark simply because you cannot stand that I disagree with you. i even offered the idea that we simply do things different or disagree, and this was your reply. PM me when you actually care to discus it, and not make comments like this at those who disagree with you.

Have a nice day.

nearlight.3064:

I’m not sure if I would call necromancers as the single class with the highest condition output, especially compared to what engineers and soon to be buffed mesmers will put out after the patch. If you want to do the math and find out all the skills which apply conditions, go ahead.

this is common knowledge posted in both power and condi damage versions with timed videos against various mobs for each profession. We tend to update them after each feature patch. So unless you can use a condi build to kill the same mobs I dead, faster, then we will stick with what we know. Engineer isn’t even close. Although I solo lupi faster on my engineer, but that is with a power build.

nearlight.3064:

And yeah ToL had a surprising amount of necromancers, mainly because they counter much of the might stacking meta so well. I wouldn’t call that attrition though, since they rely on things like corrupt boon and fear chaining to win in one 1v1s,

As I see it, corrupt boon is near defining for attrition.

The only thing about the patch that kittenes me off is that the meta spec for necromancers won’t change. It’ll still be carrion PoC terror reaper’s prot with nightmare runes. A necromancer can be a huge boon to a team if they can avoid being focused too frequently and if their team can reliably peel enemies off them to keep them from being focused. One of the reason’s noscoc did so well in ToL against apex is because he had Zoose bursting down anyone that looked at him the wrong way, as well as invincible enigneers that kept pressure up during teamfights.
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You lost any semblance of me giving you any credit when you said “invincible engineers”…………………..You were sounding so reasonable and almost presenting thoughtful argument until there………….what a shame.

nearlight.3064:

GvG has everything to do with WvW. I mean you don’t try to karma train around enemy zergs right? You actually fight eachother over objectives, and the same tactics you’d find in GvGs are the same tactics you’d find in any large scale WvW fight. And yeah, ofc its organized.

Actually, when I play we tend to split up to 2-4 teams. All of this accusation of massive blobs all the time on higher end severs, at least from what I see, is a old wives tale or urban myth or whatever you care to call it. We tend to run multiple pins with guild groups.

You seem to miss one thing. If we are trying to take a keep. The intelligent and easiest way to do so is bait and switch so the enemy is not defending the keep you assault.

The closest GvG comes to is open field battles. Commanders deal with waaay more siege warfare then they ever will at exactly even numbered open field battles. Your working really hard at trying to prove apples are, in fact oranges.

nearlight.3064:

Some of the stuff he/she/it says is good, but some people will NEVER admit that they are wrong and will be abrasive to others to brush the issue off.

Interesting. Posters with a different opinion are now simply wrong? That is one way to look at it I guess. I find it a little odd to claim someone as abrassive when they simply did not care for someone else telling them what they meant or in your case nearlight, using actual name calling. But hey, to each their own I guess.

nearlight.3064:

And yeah ToL had a surprising amount of necromancers, mainly because they counter much of the might stacking meta so well. I wouldn’t call that attrition though, since they rely on things like corrupt boon and fear chaining to win in one 1v1s,

As I see it, corrupt boon is near defining for attrition.

The only thing about the patch that kittenes me off is that the meta spec for necromancers won’t change. It’ll still be carrion PoC terror reaper’s prot with nightmare runes. A necromancer can be a huge boon to a team if they can avoid being focused too frequently and if their team can reliably peel enemies off them to keep them from being focused. One of the reason’s noscoc did so well in ToL against apex is because he had Zoose bursting down anyone that looked at him the wrong way, as well as invincible enigneers that kept pressure up during teamfights.
[/quote]

You lost any semblance of me giving you any credit when you said “invincible engineers”…………………..You were sounding so reasonable and almost presenting thoughtful argument until there………….what a shame. [quote/]

I don’t play engi. I revoke that statement then and admit that it is wrong even if I don’t understand that class. Thats still not relevant to the point of discussing necromancers though. You discredit me for things I say that aren’t the main topic of the discussion. I’m human and I make mistakes, and I’m fine with admitting it. The point was that necromancers did well because they had a solid comp that worked with them well.

I disagree with defining corrupt boon as attrition because it practice its more like burst. Removing boons is attrition, but replacing 5 boons with conditions that cause damage or impede your movement or ability damage all at once makes you go down very fast in a fight. If a boon is simply shattered off by a mesmer, as long as the burst of the shatter didn’t kill them, they can react and keep fighting albeit slightly weaker. S/D thief as mentioned before is probably a better example. Corrupting that many boons wrecks a target and forces them to try and escape or clutch a cleanse or heal. Thats what burst does, forcing so much pressure, whether damage or condition pressure on an enemy that they are forced to unable to continue their original goal of damaging the other player, at least for those moments. I play S/F fresh air ele, a bursty spec, and when I land a phoenix and air burst on a squishy target, they lose so much of their health in one go that they are forced to change their goal of killing me, or they die. Burst is overwhelming your enemy with so much pressure that their core moment to moment objectives are forced to change. Attrition is applying slowly applying pressure, and becoming stronger the longer a fight goes on, by building boons like might, applying conditions (yes it can be attrition) and wearing down enemies with less sustain by nullifying their their burst by recovery or avoidance, and wearing down those with poor sustain themselves.

And we all know that necromancer’s have terrible healing, and terrible damage mitigiation ability, and cannot reset a fight like a thief or even an ele could. Its do or die for them, and that means ending fights as soon as possible. the condition transfer abilities are the most attrition a necro really has in my opinion.