Guild Wars 2

I find it hard to believe that the upcoming “balance changes” are called that. They’re not even close to balancing.

WHAT is out of balance? In PvE, the classes are horribly unbalanced when compared to each other. Rangers are death-delivery vehicles. Nothing but 4 or more veterans can come close to taking them down.

Thieves, on the other hand, need to be played perfectly just to survive an encounter with a single veteran.

My ranger and my necro have both taken down a champion solo. My thief, engineer, elementalist and guardian are hopelessly outmatched by all champs they have attempted solo. They’re almost certain to die without even getting a chance to run away from most champs.

Mesmer? Kind of in the middle. At least he’ll be able to run away.

Yet these “balance” changes do nothing to level the playing field. Thieves still have a completely useless downed land skillbar, and no viable weapons underwater. Yes, some of their stuff gets tweaked, but so do the other classes. What about making them operate at the same level as other classes, instead of as second-class citizens?

If you want to do “balancing”, leave the ranger alone or nerf them. They’re grossly more powerful than any other class in nearly any situation (PvE). Concentrate on making the useless classes (thief, engineer, and guardians if playing alone) more playable. Especially their miserable underwater skills and some downed skills.

Wow! That’s certainly a different opinion about Rangers! Lol.

A-are we playing the same game?

I’m worried about these changes.

For my necro in particular, I don’t think they need more survivability. If anything, they need their traits moved around a bit. For example, I literally have to spend all my trait points just getting the NECESSARY traits for if I want to get the most out of my staff #5 fear skill. If you want a guaranteed fear, you need the ‘marks are now unblockable’ trait, and you also need the ‘fear deals damage’ trait (so they don’t get out of combat while falling off the cliff and waypoint before their death). Both require 4 ranks in different lines. A huge price just for the ‘basic’ must-haves of a fear based build.

My engineer has taken down champs solo. Including the underwater krait champ (now a veteran) in Caledon Forest.

My thieves can mow down massive groups of mobs with multiple vets- two thieves with two very different setups. By far, my favourite roaming characters. Downed skill 3 is problematic on thieves, but 2 is extremely useful.

If your guardian is dying against champs, you’re doing something wrong. I might see your point if you were trying to argue that they don’t have the damage output to take down a champ- that’s fair. But survivability is the guardian’s wheelhouse.

I am not a fan of people who say “learn to play” but… seriously, have you been playing long?

Edit: I should also note that I only have ascended items that can be purchased with laurels. I don’t even have an ascended backpiece, and I certainly didn’t have ascended when I killed the krait champ.

These are not only balance changes, but some of the are requested by players.

Dude, then you aren’t playing some of the classes right. I can beat Champions with my Guardian solo.

In open world pve, any class will succeed.

I’m not so much cutting down the changes, as the concept of calling them balance changes.

My main characters are a thief, a necro, and a ranger. I’ve got the others, but none of them have a full set of even exotic armor yet.

I did some experimenting the last few weeks by sending those 3 characters to 3 zones, and then rotating them after playing a while. (Zones Dry Top, Frostgorge, and Cursed Shore) So, I had apples-to-apples comparisons. (Previously I always wondered if it was just that the ranger was hitting easier foes … by chance … all the time.)

Anyhow, it because exceptionally clear that the ranger, who has the least-completed armor set, was far superior in every aspect of combat than either of the other two. The necro could hold his own against a small mob, but not if there was a vet included. The thief? 3 creatures, max. Anything more and he was in serious trouble. With the ranger, I was trying to aggro at least 6+ creatures so I could kill them faster. If the thief accidentally aggroes 6, he’s dead unless he can hide in shadows and run away.

The only real exception was in Dry Top. Against those dust mites, the ranger had some trouble. But, nothing else bothers her short of champs.

Well, and that chicken tornado thing, but that’s a whole ’nother story.

oxtred.7658:

In open world pve, any class will succeed.

Possibly, but are they BALANCED? Do they work equally well?

The game isn’t balanced around solo.

oxtred.7658:

The game isn’t balanced around solo.

No, it’s balanced around zergs and rolling you face over the keyboard.

Are you really surprised?

oxtred.7658:

Are you really surprised?

At this point, no. Anet are afraid of their own bloody shadow.
They always play it safe and never rock the boat, because everybody has to win, no matter the cost.

Idk why I still hold out any hope for them, they clearly no longer deserve it.

Yoh.8469:

oxtred.7658:

Are you really surprised?

At this point, no. Anet are afraid of their own bloody shadow.
They always play it safe and never rock the boat, because everybody has to win, no matter the cost.

Idk why I still hold out any hope for them, they clearly no longer deserve it.

Why? What have they specifically done to wrong you so personally that you feel the need to attack them consistently, yet not offer a specific reason? Why do you feel you deserve specifically? Have you thought about how fulfilling your specific personal desires will effect the rest of the community?

this threads gonna get closed

and op, u r so wrong, everything in open world (soloplaying) is easy. u just dont manage those proffessions yet.

the problem in pve w specific problems is, they dont have enough support for the team, for example, compare necro to an ele , the difference is huge:

necro, has high SINGLE target dmg, but not as high as staff ele, and staff ele is using aoe + doing more dmg to single targets in pve as well

staff ele can stack party might, necro cant

ele can support w water fields and different boons, necro cant

ele has minor amount of reflects, can be used with aura share , necro doesnt
(ele also has swirling winds, if using focus)

ele can give fgs, self explanationary

icebow

theres way more, but just so u can get a grasp of the pve proffesion difference

Wyrden.4713:

this threads gonna get closed

and op, u r so wrong, everything in open world (soloplaying) is easy. u just dont manage those proffessions yet.

the problem in pve w specific problems is, they dont have enough support for the team, for example, compare necro to an ele , the difference is huge:

necro, has high SINGLE target dmg, but not as high as staff ele, and staff ele is using aoe + doing more dmg to single targets in pve as well

staff ele can stack party might, necro cant

ele can support w water fields and different boons, necro cant

ele has minor amount of reflects, can be used with aura share , necro doesnt
(ele also has swirling winds, if using focus)

ele can give fgs, self explanationary

icebow

theres way more, but just so u can get a grasp of the pve proffesion difference

I think you misunderstood.

I’m NOT talking about easy vs. hard.

I AM talking about one class being easier or harder than another in the same situations.

Since you state an example that clearly shows that they are not equal, I don’t see what your problem with my post is.

Specifically, I’m saying that their referring to the upcoming changes as “balancing” is a misnomer. They’re changing them, but not towards balanced. They’re just making them all better.

I played alot of other mmorpg’s too and their are always some classes that can solo group content. Hell I made my gold in a particular bliz game by soloing 5mans with my mage. I personaly dont have a problem with it, as long as it only happens in PvE I dont care if some professions have an easy time compared to others. Especially if you only need to damage tag enemies in GW2 to get your share of loot.

coglin.1867:

Yoh.8469:

oxtred.7658:

Are you really surprised?

At this point, no. Anet are afraid of their own bloody shadow.
They always play it safe and never rock the boat, because everybody has to win, no matter the cost.

Idk why I still hold out any hope for them, they clearly no longer deserve it.

Why? What have they specifically done to wrong you so personally that you feel the need to attack them consistently, yet not offer a specific reason? Why do you feel you deserve specifically? Have you thought about how fulfilling your specific personal desires will effect the rest of the community?

I have specified my problems with them on several occasions, just not here. And I am not going to reiterate myself for your sake.

From what I have seen so far of this feature pack, I’m simply not impressed, certainly not enough to spend any time in the game. And I am going to voice my displeasure until things improve, or until I completely lose interest and give up on them entirely.
I suspect the latter but I hope against hope for the former.

I also suspect they don’t care either way.

The only thing rangers don’t suck in is open-world PvE, in which case yes, they are by far the best class just because pets can soak aggro so well, mob/boss AI is bad with pets, and the pets can take a LOT of hits before going down.

But the rest of the classes perform much better in everything else. Giving them a little burst and some more access to damage won’t hurt the other classes too much, either.

Daddicus.6128:

I think you misunderstood.

Hm, ok. Lets see your explanation then.

Daddicus.6128:

I’m NOT talking about easy vs. hard.

Fair enough, I respect that opinion.

Daddicus.6128:

I AM talking about one class being easier or harder than another

/facepalm

Daddicus.6128:

Wyrden.4713:

this threads gonna get closed

and op, u r so wrong, everything in open world (soloplaying) is easy. u just dont manage those proffessions yet.

the problem in pve w specific problems is, they dont have enough support for the team, for example, compare necro to an ele , the difference is huge:

necro, has high SINGLE target dmg, but not as high as staff ele, and staff ele is using aoe + doing more dmg to single targets in pve as well

staff ele can stack party might, necro cant

ele can support w water fields and different boons, necro cant

ele has minor amount of reflects, can be used with aura share , necro doesnt
(ele also has swirling winds, if using focus)

ele can give fgs, self explanationary

icebow

theres way more, but just so u can get a grasp of the pve proffesion difference

I think you misunderstood.

I’m NOT talking about easy vs. hard.

I AM talking about one class being easier or harder than another in the same situations.

Since you state an example that clearly shows that they are not equal, I don’t see what your problem with my post is.

Specifically, I’m saying that their referring to the upcoming changes as “balancing” is a misnomer. They’re changing them, but not towards balanced. They’re just making them all better.

That’s the whole point of classes. Some are better at taking down vets, others are better at destroying mass trash mobs. The fact that you cannot take down a vet with all classes tells me something. I suck, and I could still take down a vet several levels above me with an untraited mesmer, which are known to be very underpowered.

Lol, looks like OP is starting the QQ for the Ranger buffs a couple of weeks early.

“Mesmer? Kind of in the middle. At least he’ll be able to run away.”

I play a Mesmer, I don’t to run away from a fight, I want to fight knowing I stand and even chance of winning, I want our mesmer BUGS fixed, all of them.

To Assassin Zero.4628, please enjoy your ban and don’t come back now ya hear…..

PvE balance shouldn’t a deciding factor at all…sadly that’s where ArenaNet gets most of their money from.

That balance patch is a huge buff for condition specs …….. why ?

I can’t saying anything against OP, because I have solo’d many, many champions and world bosses with a Ranger

However….you can solo pretty much any champion with any profession, and you can solo every dungeon path with any profession. Its been done, and you can watch hundreds of videos of people doing it.

Daddicus.6128:

I find it hard to believe that the upcoming “balance changes” are called that. They’re not even close to balancing.

WHAT is out of balance? In PvE, the classes are horribly unbalanced when compared to each other. Rangers are death-delivery vehicles. Nothing but 4 or more veterans can come close to taking them down.

Thieves, on the other hand, need to be played perfectly just to survive an encounter with a single veteran.

My ranger and my necro have both taken down a champion solo. My thief, engineer, elementalist and guardian are hopelessly outmatched by all champs they have attempted solo. They’re almost certain to die without even getting a chance to run away from most champs.

Mesmer? Kind of in the middle. At least he’ll be able to run away.

Yet these “balance” changes do nothing to level the playing field. Thieves still have a completely useless downed land skillbar, and no viable weapons underwater. Yes, some of their stuff gets tweaked, but so do the other classes. What about making them operate at the same level as other classes, instead of as second-class citizens?

If you want to do “balancing”, leave the ranger alone or nerf them. They’re grossly more powerful than any other class in nearly any situation (PvE). Concentrate on making the useless classes (thief, engineer, and guardians if playing alone) more playable. Especially their miserable underwater skills and some downed skills.

Omfg, XD XD XD XD XD XD
I completely thought this was a troll at first. Ranger the best in PvE and OP?!?!?!?! What’s you /age? Like 3 hours?
No seriously I’m hoping rangers get buffed even more in PvE. They are THE worst. Yeah sure they can hide behind their pet in open world, but the ranger’s power is despicable. I urge you to play a dps warrior in PvE, then you’ll see what OP is. Also, have you ever tried to pug a dungeon as a ranger? See how that goes. And thieves barely playable? Ummmm….
My advice, learn something about the game before you make posts like this.

Zaoda.1653:

I’m worried about these changes.

For my necro in particular, I don’t think they need more survivability. If anything, they need their traits moved around a bit. For example, I literally have to spend all my trait points just getting the NECESSARY traits for if I want to get the most out of my staff #5 fear skill. If you want a guaranteed fear, you need the ‘marks are now unblockable’ trait, and you also need the ‘fear deals damage’ trait (so they don’t get out of combat while falling off the cliff and waypoint before their death). Both require 4 ranks in different lines. A huge price just for the ‘basic’ must-haves of a fear based build.

In pve no they dont, but pvp necros need more sustain. And i think it will be more like trying to make bloodmagic finally not suck.

As people have said, many of the changes (cleave for daggers, ranger signets, mesmer mimic, etc) have all been specifically requested by players.

I feel as far as that goes, we really can’t fault them for not listening. I dislike how insanely low the cadence of the patches is, but the content is really good.

A secondary issue however is how much of the balance is measured against sPvP.

tbh the new mimic for mesmers sound so boring, i would prefer the current mimic we have

Daddicus.6128:

I’m not so much cutting down the changes, as the concept of calling them balance changes.

My main characters are a thief, a necro, and a ranger. I’ve got the others, but none of them have a full set of even exotic armor yet.

.

/thread

Nubu.6148:

That balance patch is a huge buff for condition specs …….. why ?

It is? how so?

DeceiverX.8361:

The only thing rangers don’t suck in is open-world PvE, in which case yes, they are by far the best class just because pets can soak aggro so well, mob/boss AI is bad with pets, and the pets can take a LOT of hits before going down.

But the rest of the classes perform much better in everything else. Giving them a little burst and some more access to damage won’t hurt the other classes too much, either.

Sucks and outperformed compared to others in anything but open PvE?

You obviously haven’t played the class, have no idea about its capabilities, or you’re just really bad at it. I would guess a combination of the latters.

Only bad players use their pets as meat shields, and only bad players would name that as a positive thing about the class. It promotes bad gameplay, and is one of the reasons why there are so many bad pve rangers out there not followng the curent FrostSpotter sword meta for the ranger.

The ranger got its problems, but they’re useful in other aspects of the game outside open PvE. Especially dungeons. The learning curve however is steeper compared to a class like the warrior.

I agree. They have a thriving purpose in WvW. They have good damage, god survivability. Long water field. AoE condition cleanses.

Specklez.2694:

Omfg, XD XD XD XD XD XD
I completely thought this was a troll at first. Ranger the best in PvE and OP?!?!?!?! What’s you /age? Like 3 hours?
No seriously I’m hoping rangers get buffed even more in PvE. They are THE worst. Yeah sure they can hide behind their pet in open world, but the ranger’s power is despicable. I urge you to play a dps warrior in PvE, then you’ll see what OP is. Also, have you ever tried to pug a dungeon as a ranger? See how that goes. And thieves barely playable? Ummmm….
My advice, learn something about the game before you make posts like this.

I was gonna make a comment about how stupid this post is (and why), but I realized I might aswell quote your last sentence.

“My advice, learn something about the game before you make posts like this.”

People that got an actual clue about the game would know that rangers by no means is the worst class to bring for a dungeon. Necromancer with its lack of group utilities is the worst class, by far. Ranger on the other hand is a valuable (again, valuable, not the best) member for speedclearing, if played right. And with the upcomming patch boosting their dps, they won’t be any less useful.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Wow! That’s certainly a different opinion about Rangers! Lol.

Lol! I know, right? This guy is probably one of those hardcore frothing at the mouth warrior types who disconnects from the game every time a ranger nearly beats him in WvW/PvP. Sadly, I main a ranger and it happens more often than you’d probably believe… Some people I swear think that if a ranger beats them somewhere in the field the whole world is somehow going to know about it and laugh at them.

The ranger isn’t a bad class as is, but we do need some refinements for sure. Are we underpowered in comparison with other classes? A little bit, yeah. Hasn’t stopped me from killing most I come across, but I’m fiercely devoted, well versed in the class, and familiar with other classes for countering their every move.

Also, every class is OP in PvE, that’s a moot point. Sure, I can kill the legendary priest of Grenth in the temple solo on my ranger… but I can also do it on my warrior, my guardian… etc. It’s a matter of player skill, proper set-up for circumstances, and willingness to learn a class.

Now if they’d just tweak us so our stowed pets don’t pop up every time we take a teensy amount of fall damage. It makes JP’s a chore, cause the blasted things are always right in our camera.

Esplen.3940:

A-are we playing the same game?

He’s not playing the same, thats for sure.

“Rangers are death-delivery vehicles.” – Someone talking about other’s game rangers on the GW2 forum.

“My ranger and my necro have both taken down a champion solo. My thief, engineer, elementalist and guardian are hopelessly outmatched by all champs they have attempted solo. They’re almost certain to die without even getting a chance to run away from most champs.”
reads this… and then realises this is an extreme L2p issue and you just want to QQ on the forums… seriously how can you not solo a champ on guardian, ele, thief or engi -.-’ this is either l2p or you are just trolling

Why on earth do you need to balance around PvE?

Every class can succeed against this games braindead AI…
Some a little bit faster than other (warriors lol) but overall, meh, everyone wins at PvE… its fine as it is.. no need to waste effort into something so meaningless..

Daddicus.6128:

I’m not so much cutting down the changes, as the concept of calling them balance changes.

My main characters are a thief, a necro, and a ranger. I’ve got the others, but none of them have a full set of even exotic armor yet.

I did some experimenting the last few weeks by sending those 3 characters to 3 zones, and then rotating them after playing a while. (Zones Dry Top, Frostgorge, and Cursed Shore) So, I had apples-to-apples comparisons. (Previously I always wondered if it was just that the ranger was hitting easier foes … by chance … all the time.)

Anyhow, it because exceptionally clear that the ranger, who has the least-completed armor set, was far superior in every aspect of combat than either of the other two. The necro could hold his own against a small mob, but not if there was a vet included. The thief? 3 creatures, max. Anything more and he was in serious trouble. With the ranger, I was trying to aggro at least 6+ creatures so I could kill them faster. If the thief accidentally aggroes 6, he’s dead unless he can hide in shadows and run away.

The only real exception was in Dry Top. Against those dust mites, the ranger had some trouble. But, nothing else bothers her short of champs.

Well, and that chicken tornado thing, but that’s a whole ’nother story.

Green or yellow zerker gear on an 80 Thief, maybe throw in some Clerics gear if you want or knights, whatever… Signet that heals on hitting, shortbow 2, spam away and watch your health stay high as everything dies around you… Sorry im a noob at thief and even I find your comparisons severely flawed. Try different builds with your professions. You do not need exotics or ascended for open world stuff. You can solo champions on all professions.

Lazze.9870:

Specklez.2694:

Omfg, XD XD XD XD XD XD
I completely thought this was a troll at first. Ranger the best in PvE and OP?!?!?!?! What’s you /age? Like 3 hours?
No seriously I’m hoping rangers get buffed even more in PvE. They are THE worst. Yeah sure they can hide behind their pet in open world, but the ranger’s power is despicable. I urge you to play a dps warrior in PvE, then you’ll see what OP is. Also, have you ever tried to pug a dungeon as a ranger? See how that goes. And thieves barely playable? Ummmm….
My advice, learn something about the game before you make posts like this.

I was gonna make a comment about how stupid this post is (and why), but I realized I might aswell quote your last sentence.

“My advice, learn something about the game before you make posts like this.”

People that got an actual clue about the game would know that rangers by no means is the worst class to bring for a dungeon. Necromancer with its lack of group utilities is the worst class, by far. Ranger on the other hand is a valuable (again, valuable, not the best) member for speedclearing, if played right. And with the upcomming patch boosting their dps, they won’t be any less useful.

+1 and props for not lighting a fire under his kitten for his sheer ignorance. Anyone who knows how to play the Ranger/Pet at a high skill level has to be taken back by this post. This, unfortunately, is why the virulant hate toward Ranger/Pets is so prevalent in PvE and many will be kicked on the spot.

“Have you ever tried to PuG a dungeon as a Ranger/PET? See how that goes.”

Umm…have you ever looked into the fact that many/most high level dungeon teams almost always have a Ranger/pet in their group? Do you even know what a Ranger/pet is actually capable of? My Ranger rocks a respectable 2600 power and can maintain 25 stacks of might, permafury, and permaswiftness on himself and the pet. Pet has a respectable 93% crit chance to to go along with Rangers 75%ish. On a stationary target like a boss, Ranger/Pet burst can dish out very nice damage with Jaguar doing 7k crits. I also have a Champion Hunter title the bets you’re full of poo reguarding Rangers in PvP as well. Good Rangers don’t “hide behind their pet” either. They fight alongside it.

I agree, YOU should take your last bit of advice there and put it to use so you don’t sound like a fool.