Guild Wars 2

Fungalfoot.7213:

This thread makes it really obvious that they should have stuck to the idea of a cosmetic only gear grind instead of kittening around with stats. Now if zerker ends up nerfed they’re going to have to deal with a throng of angry people demanding new stats. What a mess.

It would behoove ANet then to simply allow Berserker gear (and maybe all of Ascended depending on the severity since +% crit damage is on more than Berserker gear) to simply have a one-time stat selection respec. That solves the problem after all.

My prediction: Soft cap and/or hard cap will be incoming for %crit damage. It makes a whole lot of sense actually.

The problem is that the condition damage meta becomes even worse than it is now because condition duration is beyond out of hand.

Next in line after that, chain-CC immunity to allow some use in PvE against champ+

Armor Penetration is actually a really good idea. At the same time maybe reduce protections 33% to 20% so that it doesn’t make such a huge impact on direct damage or make protection also lower condition damage.

kyubi.3620:

I think they could actualy reduce zerker effectiveness to put it on par with non zerker by switching crit damage to armor penetration ;/

Seems fair. Same DPS than other sets without their survivability.

Dire Amulet would be very bad for spvp.

I hope anet won’t add it

Atm:
dmg = Base damage * ( 1 – Critical Chance ) + Base damage * ( Critical Chance * (Critical Damage + 1.5) )

If, per say, you are gonna change (reduce) it like this it will be:
dmg = Base damage * ( 1 – Critical Chance ) + Base damage * ( Critical Chance * (0.5 * Critical Damage + 1.5) )

Do it and every single Berseker, Assassin and Cavalier will be half of its effectiveness.
Are you also conscious of the fact you’re also implicitly messing up big time Precision?

Each time i think Anet is doing something bad, it comes up they doing even worse. GJ.

stof.9341:

kyubi.3620:

I think they could actualy reduce zerker effectiveness to put it on par with non zerker by switching crit damage to armor penetration ;/

Seems fair. Same DPS than other sets without their survivability.

Aye the same dps and less survive is they way to go.

Oh if only zerk was nerfed so those poor bunkers and condi spammers had a chance in pvp/WvW.

stof.9341:

kyubi.3620:

I think they could actualy reduce zerker effectiveness to put it on par with non zerker by switching crit damage to armor penetration ;/

Seems fair. Same DPS than other sets without their survivability.

sarcasm? I hope so. Because hey, zerker same damage as knights gear but you die faster! Doesn’t seem like a good balance choice.

cept zerker will obliterate knight because zerker will ignore armor dude… no more issue with those bunkers now we break trought theyr tanking style like if their armor was made of jelly.

Is there a reason just removing critical damage from the game entirely and making base crit chance 100% instead of 50% wouldn’t work? Obviously the armor sets would need to be changed, but that’s minor and something we’ve lived through once before (and would be welcome if it means Ascended can permanently swap stats like legendaries can).

kyubi.3620:

cept zerker will obliterate knight because zerker will ignore armor dude… no more issue with those bunkers now we break trought theyr tanking style like if their armor was made of jelly.

Because the knight DPS got a lot of armor to ignore when it hits the zerk player back?

Well if they had armor penetration as a stat make the crit damage static and reduce precision slighty to make zerker viable against bunkers without ruining the game we could actualy get something around what one could call a balance.

More armor to ignore then what a zerker running penetration would… definitively, especialy if armor penetration stat doesnt just end up to 50% but scale up to 80-90. At this point it all comes down to who dodge the better between the two and who actualy gets his damage in first. On a pve basis zerker will still be king between hybrid bunker (aka knight) and pure damage for most boss wich actualy have some armor level

Atherakhia.4086:

Is there a reason just removing critical damage from the game entirely and making base crit chance 100% instead of 50% wouldn’t work? Obviously the armor sets would need to be changed, but that’s minor and something we’ve lived through once before (and would be welcome if it means Ascended can permanently swap stats like legendaries can).

You would have to make all gear 2 stat gear. Which would be stupid. The only reasonable change they can make is make crit damage a stat similar to other stats. Eg. 76 critical damage = 5% critical damage.

If you nerf zerg gear will it get free stat swap like traveler gear?

Some great ifs and buts in here, when the reality of the situation is it just looks like they are going to nerf hammer crit dmg.

Awesome.

kyubi.3620:

Well if they had armor penetration as a stat make the crit damage static and reduce precision slighty to make zerker viable against bunkers without ruining the game we could actualy get something around what one could call a balance.

Although I do relinquish the idea of nerfing the bunker meta somewhat in PvP, I wonder what the point will be of defensive stats, if every offensive build ignores it.

We already got conditions that ignore toughness. Should we make most physical attacks ignore it too?

kyubi.3620:

cept zerker will obliterate knight because zerker will ignore armor dude… no more issue with those bunkers now we break trought theyr tanking style like if their armor was made of jelly.

this may be a good way to do it. As long as at the end of the day the damage averages out to be the same as it is now. Lowering spike damage from huge crits well at the same time spreading that damage out amongst your other attacks could work.

Perhaps an idea is to add another defensive secondary stat that affects endurance regeneration. Let’s call this stat “Stamina” for now.

Consider:
- Drastically lower the speed with which endurance (i.e. the dodge bar) regenerates.
- Introduce “Stamina”, a stat that increases the rate with which endurance regenerates.
- Create several weapon or armor prefixes that include “Stamina”.
- In traits, remove all bonuses to Condition Duration (arguably the most worthless secondary stat) with “Stamina”.
- Rework and rebalance all skills, traits and sigils that restore endurance.
- Reduce Vigor durations.

This way, the effectiveness of active defenses gets integrated into the character stats, and there is actually a drawback to cutting back your defenses while equipping berserker gear.

spoj.9672:

Atherakhia.4086:

Is there a reason just removing critical damage from the game entirely and making base crit chance 100% instead of 50% wouldn’t work? Obviously the armor sets would need to be changed, but that’s minor and something we’ve lived through once before (and would be welcome if it means Ascended can permanently swap stats like legendaries can).

You would have to make all gear 2 stat gear. Which would be stupid. The only reasonable change they can make is make crit damage a stat similar to other stats. Eg. 76 critical damage = 5% critical damage.

Why would you need to make it 2 stat gear?

Why can’t berserker gear be changed to Power, Precision, Vitality? Why can’t Cavalier be removed because you would just turn Crit Dmg to Precision which turns it into Knights gear? etc etc?

It’s just a stat swap and removing redundancy.

Replace critical damage with armor penetration, simple.

kyubi.3620:

Replace critical damage with armor penetration, simple.

Well that doesn’t solve much. You simply change the mechanic but still make power/precision/armor pen the goto combo instead of the current berserker.

I’d also like to think that any change being made has much further reaching implications than just PvE. If we remove the stat entirely, we move power based characters closer to condition based characters because currently power classes need 3 stats at a minimum and condi classes only need 1.

With removal of the stat, power would only need 2 and condi would need 1, but at least at that point you could kind of make a case for most condi classes also needing precision because of all the on-crit bleed traits and the like.

Removing it and flooding the market with vitality would also make vitality the real goto stat to counter condis.

shimmerless.4560:

Nausicca.6038:

In this case, why not nerfing traits such as PU instead of “fixing” zerkers stats?
I need the zerker stats for my shatter build. I have 0 passive defense ( aegis/protection/regen), my iLeap combo is highly predictable and most of time broken, so I do need the burst to control my opponent, to make him/her afraid to fight me in melee.
With the zerker “fix” (nerf), we would see more and more PU builds. Which means more and more passive gameplay. And people are already complaining a lot about PU builds. Never about gc shatter though…

^ Bingo, +1 from me.

This is the case, but what kind of balance can you expect from someone who has said that “spirit ranger is great skill”? Or from someone who thinks that unavoidable, passive burn procs are good for the game.

And this is where I disagree. I’ve played mmos long enough to know that significant changes and fixes can take quite a while. Months if not years. Someone has said before that development doesn’t work on our schedules, it works on theirs. That seems about right. Whenever something is broken and can’t be fixed right away, stop gap measures are used. Condition damage? Way borked. Is it never going to be fixed or changed? Using your logic (well, not just yours technically, I can read the forums) the answer is never. A rational person might also say, it will be changed in some way eventually for the better, just not right away.

But the world doesn’t work on anyone’s schedule. My point is: if things don’t get fixed in time, people just move to other games. That has already happened here. All the serious spvp teams have left the game.

kyubi.3620:

Replace critical damage with armor penetration, simple.

Realize there is no problem with the game other than stale end game content so nothing needs to be changed except development priorities and it’s even more simple.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

kyubi.3620:

Replace critical damage with armor penetration, simple.

Realize there is no problem with the game other than stale end game content so nothing needs to be changed except development priorities and it’s even more simple.

Don’t ask too much of them.

Selenya.6410:

Atm:
dmg = Base damage * ( 1 – Critical Chance ) + Base damage * ( Critical Chance * (Critical Damage + 1.5) )

If, per say, you are gonna change (reduce) it like this it will be:
dmg = Base damage * ( 1 – Critical Chance ) + Base damage * ( Critical Chance * (0.5 * Critical Damage + 1.5) )

Do it and every single Berseker, Assassin and Cavalier will be half of its effectiveness.
Are you also conscious of the fact you’re also implicitly messing up big time Precision?

Each time i think Anet is doing something bad, it comes up they doing even worse. GJ.

This.

Game over incoming. Gj.

spoj.9672:

Atherakhia.4086:

Is there a reason just removing critical damage from the game entirely and making base crit chance 100% instead of 50% wouldn’t work? Obviously the armor sets would need to be changed, but that’s minor and something we’ve lived through once before (and would be welcome if it means Ascended can permanently swap stats like legendaries can).

You would have to make all gear 2 stat gear. Which would be stupid. The only reasonable change they can make is make crit damage a stat similar to other stats. Eg. 76 critical damage = 5% critical damage.

This doesn’t seem too unreasonable. They pick a ratio and stick to it for all pieces of gear. Makes min/maxing easier too.

Or…add a soft cap with actual diminishing returns. Depending on how diminishing they are, I could see people swapping a few (or several) pieces of zerk for knights/ptv.

I still don’t understand why nerfing the armor is the solution, though. But if they go this route it’ll likely be one of the two above.

Hi, why do you all think zerker gear is going to get nerfed/changed? we know a.net want to change the PVE meta that encourage players to use only zerk gear. We also know they want to make condition damge more usble in PVE but less poular in SPVP. Perheps A.net is looking for a way for condi damage to benefit from critical damge bonus?

So curious to see what they have to say, particularly about runes and sigils.

Atherakhia.4086:

kyubi.3620:

Replace critical damage with armor penetration, simple.

Well that doesn’t solve much. You simply change the mechanic but still make power/precision/armor pen the goto combo instead of the current berserker.

I’d also like to think that any change being made has much further reaching implications than just PvE. If we remove the stat entirely, we move power based characters closer to condition based characters because currently power classes need 3 stats at a minimum and condi classes only need 1.

With removal of the stat, power would only need 2 and condi would need 1, but at least at that point you could kind of make a case for most condi classes also needing precision because of all the on-crit bleed traits and the like.

Removing it and flooding the market with vitality would also make vitality the real goto stat to counter condis.

removing +crit damage does not make direct damage a two stat build with out going back and changing the damage coefficients on all the attacks in the game.

Atherakhia.4086:

spoj.9672:

Atherakhia.4086:

Is there a reason just removing critical damage from the game entirely and making base crit chance 100% instead of 50% wouldn’t work? Obviously the armor sets would need to be changed, but that’s minor and something we’ve lived through once before (and would be welcome if it means Ascended can permanently swap stats like legendaries can).

You would have to make all gear 2 stat gear. Which would be stupid. The only reasonable change they can make is make crit damage a stat similar to other stats. Eg. 76 critical damage = 5% critical damage.

Why would you need to make it 2 stat gear?

Why can’t berserker gear be changed to Power, Precision, Vitality? Why can’t Cavalier be removed because you would just turn Crit Dmg to Precision which turns it into Knights gear? etc etc?

It’s just a stat swap and removing redundancy.

Because then you have no fully dedicated direct damage gearset. Rampager has 3 offensive stats. If you make beserker power, prec, vit its basically a slightly better knights. And the biggest issue I have with this suggestion is that you make max dps gear even easier to use. I dont want defensive stats. I want to rely solely on active defense.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Realize there is no problem with the game other than stale end game content so nothing needs to be changed except development priorities and it’s even more simple.

Yep +1

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

kyubi.3620:

Replace critical damage with armor penetration, simple.

Realize there is no problem with the game other than stale end game content so nothing needs to be changed except development priorities and it’s even more simple.

+2. Nike is on point.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Personal question: Will a balance overview thread be posted in the forums?

“Critical damage changes” <- Intriguing.

Intriguing indeed if they go in a good direction, else most will be intrigued by other games in return.

Killface.1896:

If you nerf zerg gear will it get free stat swap like traveler gear?

Good question. Rather if they change crit damage to function differently do we get a stat change option?

Finally! You guys are focusing on something worthwhile. I’m looking forward to the stream, enthusiastically.

snow.8097:

critical damage changes

okay i try to see the whole Picture
in earlier Posts some devs said they try to do something against the berserk meta in PvE. Thats okay.
But now i have the fear, that this changes will also be there in PvP.
Everyone knows that the actual PvP meta is all in all Condition. With Changes in Crit Dmg that will probably a nerf we will see a push of condition builds as consequence.
So i really hope that the crit dmg changes will be pve/WvW only

When we are talking about this “berserk” dominance We have to refer to dungeons/fractals only, I suppose.
If the changes affect so much the results in dungeons/fractals to change gear…well, good luck with keeping players in this game, IMHO.

Manuelito.6081:

snow.8097:

critical damage changes

okay i try to see the whole Picture
in earlier Posts some devs said they try to do something against the berserk meta in PvE. Thats okay.
But now i have the fear, that this changes will also be there in PvP.
Everyone knows that the actual PvP meta is all in all Condition. With Changes in Crit Dmg that will probably a nerf we will see a push of condition builds as consequence.
So i really hope that the crit dmg changes will be pve/WvW only

When we are talking about this “berserk” dominance We have to refer to dungeons/fractals only, I suppose.
If the changes affect so much the results in dungeons/fractals to change gear…well, good luck with keeping players in this game, IMHO.

But that’s the idea of content release… To make you chase that Ascended carrot again…

Silferas.3841:

Behold fellow players, this is how PvE content is made with minimal effort. All it takes is one tiny change and players will have hundreds of hours of grind to enjoy. Just like the last few patches when ascended weapons and after that armor came out!

I honestly hope I am wrong. I honestly do want to believe, that whatever they came up with, is reasonable and will make the game better. I have been hoping for the past few days, but the blog post is still nowhere to be seen.

In fact, this will create not hundreds of hours of play; it will create just a bubble of 5-10 minutes to un-install the game.

While I do like armor penetration, the next thing the whiners will whine about is “toughness does jack kitten to protect me from either direct damage or condition damage”

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

Killface.1896:

If you nerf zerg gear will it get free stat swap like traveler gear?

Good question. Rather if they change crit damage to function differently do we get a stat change option?

You could change your MF gear because it was effectively removed from the game (for all intents and purposes).

If they allow us to alter our zerk gear it kind of sends out the message that they have kitten it up completely.

It is highly possible that they will simply say zerker is now “fixed” and you should get on with it and keep your sets.

If the critical bursts become capped at something like 100% this game will become boring. The damage received from a light class from a ele or thief will become predictable, and bunker/cond. warriors, necro and guardians will be the new meta, against which light classes will be totally under-powered. The ele will be the one that suffers the most from that nerf, because it cannot just become invisible and run away.

I will be the first of the list to file a complaint and ask for a refund for my berserker ascended armor.

I enjoy having the liberty to alternate between a defensive build with 95% critical damage and an offensive one with 115%.

Crit damage as armor penetration is nice. That would level the playing field between condition damage and direct damage.

However… it would make toughness much less desirable that it is, so perhaps armor penetration is percentage based, so it works best against very high toughness.

On the other hand it also removes the whole aspect of being fragile to gain power. If course that is already ruined with dire condition specs, where ou get both.

What they really need to balance is over the top might stacks, blood lust and condition damage.

Bunker builds don’t need to become more effective either.

Bunker/condi is already the meta for two out of three parts of the game. Might as well make it all three at this rate.

It certainly seems to be what both the devs and a few people on these forums want.

Zero Day.2594:

But that’s the idea of content release… To make you chase that Ascended carrot again…

Dunno. In many cases, I assume it simply makes players chase the uninstall button and have a look at other games. Those might take hundreds of hours like the ascended gear grind, too, but I’m not sure whether it’s really the kind of hundreds of hours ANet prefers.

Seetoo.9316:

While I do like armor penetration, the next thing the whiners will whine about is “toughness does jack kitten to protect me from either direct damage or condition damage”

well we already see Condi bunker and wvw and pvp, maybe having something to counter all the bunkering would allow anet to look into active defenses and make some of then more powerful (like necro life siphoning) and things like block, evade, blind, chill would still be truely more effective since damage would be spread out and allow more time for counter play.

LAST BIG QUESTION:

Did you implement the fix that allows buildings/structures to take condition damage??

and please tell us you are nerfing Lyssa runes.

countering armor builds likely will force anet to indeed look into classes active defence next wich is the next logical step to a balanced game. While the armor is overpowered as it is right now active defence could use some love. Wed then get enought possible variable to work on situational builds wich work very well in some situation and less in others.

The perfect build doesnt exist… or so it should not. Its all a mather of what you run and what you should run to get the stuff done. A strong build should always have a strenght and an actual crippling weakness to compensate.

here comes a even heavier condi meta.

condi meta wont be that good if they run on armors and they add AP… youl just end up behing glass cannony vs physical and get yourself eaten…. Im more concerned about rampager having none of the weakness that the bunker conditionner would if it came to armor penetration