Guild Wars 2

Balance stance is NOT a true stance !

Here’s why.

what is the definition of a stance?

• it is suppose to be an innate warrior skill.

Every single stance has one thing in common:

• they have a unique atrribute to them that cannot be cleansed corrupted or otherwise removed until it is over.

examples:

• endure pain: immunity to direct damage for a short time.
  cannot be cleansed stripped or corrupted.
• beserker stance: immunity to conditions for a short time.
  cannot be cleansed stripped or corrupted.
• frenzy: all actions 50% faster for a short time.
  cannot be cleansed stripped or corrupted.

Now we come to the joke that is balanced stance

• balanced stance: immunity to CC for a short time.
  can in fact be stripped, cleansed, corrupted, boon stripped, it is a joke of a stance

Am I the only one that sees this mistake and or oversight ?
Am I the only one that feels this is more a shout than a stance ?

let’s look at other classes and some examples of their innate abilities shall we ?

Elementalist

• mist form: invulnerable for a short time.
  imagine if this could be stripped ? everyone would be up in arms and a lot of kitten and WTF’s

Necromancer

• death shroud: 2nd health pool and damage dealing capability.
  imagine if when you pop death shroud someone could simply strip it from you ? oh the horror and the uproar on the forums.

Engineer

• elixir S: shrink yourself and become invulnerable for a short time.
  imagine if this also could be stripped, corrupted or whatever oh the horror !

why do I want balanced stance to be made into what it should be ?

1 – it is suppose to be a stance not some cheap kitten boon as if it was a shout !
2 – it negates the mechanic it was made for.
3 – gives warriors one way to perform a safe stomp just as many other classes have one.
(stealth stomp, plague form stomp, mist form stomp anyone ?)

How come no warriors have noticed this oversight ?

Rally up warriors notice that one of your stances is a joke already will yah !

This needs to be changed a.net, if you believe in fairness and balance this needs your attention.

Our Mist Form also increases movement speed by 66%, heck yeah! LOL

Of course Necromancers would be up in arms if you could strip Death Shroud from them. It’s not just a single skill slot ability (of which you don’t even have to use), it’s their class feature and the entire class is balanced around it.

I used death shroud as an example because it IS as you say an innate necromancer system, same thing is true for stances and yet we have one joke of a balance stance that is a mediocre version of what it should actually be.

Latinkuro.9420:

How come no warriors have noticed this oversight ?

It was a bit hard to spot while mowing down enemies in the so rare “80 ZERK WAR ONLY OR KICK” groups.

Say what you will about Balanced Stance but it’s on my warrior bar 99% of the time. It’s easily one of the best defensive utility skills a warrior has access to. I also don’t think it’s fair to compare it to invulnerable skills since warriors have other options that are much more worth of comparison. Endure Pain comes to mind. You might say that it’s less survivable than something like Elixir S or Mist Form but the warrior has more durability in general.

I think the skill is fine as is. I agree with mooty it’s almost always on my warrior’s bar and it really isn’t bad at all. Now I will say out of all the things about other classes you can complain about, you could add on that rangers only have one form of true stability and it’s an elite……

Every time i go to bed at night I shed a few more tears for all those poor warriors and their attempts to beat those OP eles with all of their useless utilities. Perhaps someday this injustice will be fixed, but we can only hope.

Sizer.5632:

Every time i go to bed at night I shed a few more tears for all those poor warriors and their attempts to beat those OP eles with all of their useless utilities. Perhaps someday this injustice will be fixed, but we can only hope.

like dis if you cry errytime

@OP if you genuinely think that Balanced Stance is a ‘joke’ just because Stability can be stripped you’re being dangerously silly.

Sarrs.4831:

Sizer.5632:

Every time i go to bed at night I shed a few more tears for all those poor warriors and their attempts to beat those OP eles with all of their useless utilities. Perhaps someday this injustice will be fixed, but we can only hope.

like dis if you cry errytime

@OP if you genuinely think that Balanced Stance is a ‘joke’ just because Stability can be stripped you’re being dangerously silly.

LOL, I’m a warrior, run pain train warrior in WvW and yes balance stance is always on my bar as well.

but….

you guys are missing the point altogether or conveniently ignoring it, whichever.

the point is this: a stance should not be something you can boon strip or corrupt it is NOT a shout it is a stance an innate warrior thing

think about the unshakable icon on elementals that is how it should be when you pop balance stance not this crappy boon we get, which is the only reason I call it crappy.

Latinkuro.9420:

Sarrs.4831:

Sizer.5632:

Every time i go to bed at night I shed a few more tears for all those poor warriors and their attempts to beat those OP eles with all of their useless utilities. Perhaps someday this injustice will be fixed, but we can only hope.

like dis if you cry errytime

@OP if you genuinely think that Balanced Stance is a ‘joke’ just because Stability can be stripped you’re being dangerously silly.

LOL, I’m a warrior, run pain train warrior in WvW and yes balance stance is always on my bar as well.

but….

you guys are missing the point altogether or conveniently ignoring it, whichever.

the point is this: a stance should not be something you can boon strip or corrupt it is NOT a shout it is a stance an innate warrior thing

think about the unshakable icon on elementals that is how it should be when you pop balance stance not this crappy boon we get, which is the only reason I call it crappy.

Conveniently ignoring it yeah. I get what you mean but I don’t really think it’s enough of a distinction to be worthwhile, and personally I think an “uncorruptible stability” would be pretty OP with Balanced Stance’s duration in mind. It’d have to eat a pretty major (50%+) nuke to remain at a suitable power level.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Balanced stance is different because it is the only balanced stance.

I see what you did there.

Then don’t play ranger. A cast time with no stun break for stability…I don’t even.

While I would normally say “Yes, that’s an oversight”, sorry, Stability is way strong enough as-is. We really don’t need a Superior Stability, especially not on Warriors.

I do not get why you are complaining because it is not a unique debuf but a boon means it is stackable with other forms of stability and can be extended with boon duration.

Also armor of earth (which is the same category as mist form) can be removed/corrupted.

Latinkuro.9420:

let’s look at other classes and some examples of their innate abilities shall we ?

Elementalist

• mist form: invulnerable for a short time.
  imagine if this could be stripped ? everyone would be up in arms and a lot of kitten and WTF’s

Engineer

• elixir S: shrink yourself and become invulnerable for a short time.
  imagine if this also could be stripped, corrupted or whatever oh the horror !

Well Mr “I am a Warrior”,

if Balance Stance compared to Ele´s Mist form or Engineers Elixir S, you are completely right. Balance Stance need an adjustement! Immediately in the right way!

New Balance Stance:

Cannot be cleansed stripped or corrupted
Duration changed to 3 Seconds
You are no longer able to cap points and use your skills (included ticks of HS) while activated

LOL, balance stance doesn’t make you immune to damage, it only helps with CC !
are you serious LOL !

I don’t mind the duration reduction but all of the rest is pure none sense since it doesn’t make you immune to damage.

Carighan.6758:

While I would normally say “Yes, that’s an oversight”, sorry, Stability is way strong enough as-is. We really don’t need a Superior Stability, especially not on Warriors.

hmm I see, so it is ok for thieves to have OP stealth and OP sure stomp from stealth that cannot be stopped, it is ok for ele’s to have a sure stomp via mist form stomp.

but…..

asking for a skill to work like it should work is a big no no just because it is a warrior skill oh the irony.

Latinkuro.9420:

LOL, balance stance doesn’t make you immune to damage, it only helps with CC !
are you serious LOL !

I don’t mind the duration reduction but all of the rest is pure none sense since it doesn’t make you immune to damage.

Then why the kitten are you comparing it to skills that do make you immune to damage?

Ty Berengar!
I thought you would get my point, and think about what skills you compared. But instead you LoL around and proof to be a stupid warrior.

Lol yea, plz buff blanaced stance, since Berserker stance + Endure pain warrior (+ stability) isn’ t enough faceroll.

Also give the class, which already rly good acces to stability a stance which makes its stability unremovable.

So let’s check what Balanced Stance is at the moment and what would happen if it was turned into real Stance, lets go:

At the moment Balanced Stance (BS from now on) gives 8 seconds of stability. You can further increase the duration by taking the Stance duration trait, making it 10 seconds. Now, after that your own boon duration is added and you could easily get 13 seconds of stability through 40 second CD skill. Also, it does stack with other sources of stability.

If BS was a real Stance it would turn into either 8 seconds or 10 seconds stability, depending on if you have the stance trait or not. No amount of boon duration would add to this. Then there is the fact it cannot be corrupted, stripped or anything else. On the other hand, it won’t stack with other sources of stability and can potentially waste stability gain through other skills or your teammates.

Both of them have Pro’s and both of them have Con’s

TL;DR:
Balanced Stance right now:
- 8s of stab (10s if traited)
- Duration is affected by your boon duration
- Stacks with other sources of stab
- Can be removed by enemy

Balanced Stance as a stance:
- 8s of stab (10s if traited)
- Duration is not affected by your boon duration
- Doesn’t stack with other stabilities
- Can’t be removed

I would rather go with BS being a real stance, taking the disadvantages it comes with. After all, it is stance and should work according to it. Would it be too strong in a form of a stance? Very situational. On some situations it would mess a lot, but on some others it wouldn’t matter that much.

Against most guardians, warriors, elementalists and rangers (not having any good ways to strip boons other than sigil) it would be weaker (assuming you have at least a bit extra boon duration in your build), but on the other hand could be extremely powerful on some occasions with Necros, Mesmers, Engineers and rare boon stripping Thieves.

If you do this, then change the system so that only one stance can be used at a time. Using a second stance overwrites the first.

You can’t be in two different stances in a martial art at the same time unless you have 4 legs and 4 arms.

I’d prefer it just being the boons, honestly.

Paavotar.3971:

On some situations it would mess a lot, but on some others it wouldn’t matter that much.

So what you’re saying is that the benefits if there is no boon strip are not really to mention while if there is boon strip it would greatly effect the outcome? Messing up a lot just to make the skill appear more in line with others stances?

Auesis.7301:

If you do this, then change the system so that only one stance can be used at a time. Using a second stance overwrites the first.

You can’t be in two different stances in a martial art at the same time unless you have 4 legs and 4 arms.

uh, interesting idea

TyPin.9860:

Paavotar.3971:

On some situations it would mess a lot, but on some others it wouldn’t matter that much.

So what you’re saying is that the benefits if there is no boon strip are not really to mention while if there is boon strip it would greatly effect the outcome? Messing up a lot just to make the skill appear more in line with others stances?

If there is boon stripping involved in the fight it could change a lot as the warrior couldn’t be interrupted during the 8 seconds. This doesn’t though turn warrior into superior being. You could still cripple, chill, immob etc him.

But then again if there is no boon stripping then it is pretty much the same as it is now, with the exception that the stability from it could be couple seconds shorter because boon duration doesn’t affect and it wouldn’t also stack with other stabilities. So if you got stability from somewhere and launched Balanced Stance at the same time, they would both keep ticking down and that could mean a lot shorter up time of stability than with the current system where it would stack.

Right now warrior can easily obtain long duration of stability by popping one skill and getting extra stability from guardian or/and ele.

It’s simple. Unstrippable stability is overpowered.

I am not the only warrior, or player for that matter, that sees this.

Balanced stance is not only fine as it is, it is a great skill.

Paavotar.3971:

TyPin.9860:

Paavotar.3971:

On some situations it would mess a lot, but on some others it wouldn’t matter that much.

So what you’re saying is that the benefits if there is no boon strip are not really to mention while if there is boon strip it would greatly effect the outcome? Messing up a lot just to make the skill appear more in line with others stances?

If there is boon stripping involved in the fight it could change a lot as the warrior couldn’t be interrupted during the 8 seconds. This doesn’t though turn warrior into superior being. You could still cripple, chill, immob etc him.

But then again if there is no boon stripping then it is pretty much the same as it is now, with the exception that the stability from it could be couple seconds shorter because boon duration doesn’t affect and it wouldn’t also stack with other stabilities. So if you got stability from somewhere and launched Balanced Stance at the same time, they would both keep ticking down and that could mean a lot shorter up time of stability than with the current system where it would stack.

Right now warrior can easily obtain long duration of stability by popping one skill and getting extra stability from guardian or/and ele.

I have most experience playing GW2 as Necromancer and Mesmer. Both professions have important boon ripping skills, which especially in case of interruption Mesmer are necessary for the interrupts and in the case of Necromancer are important for additional damage or even exploiting the boon of the enemy.

During this 8 or 10 seconds, the warrior would be guaranteed to contest or even cap a point against me, while I have no way of CCing him out of that point (I am using Greatsword and Focus in sPvP, to get them the hell out of my cap point ^^). This doesn’t seem to be much, but combined with traits like Last Stand and the anyway existing disadvantage a Mesmer has against the common Warrior builds in sPvP this would further significantly increase chances of warriors against Mesmers and also Necromancers (Staby can not be corrupted to fear any more).

Although I understand the esthetic argument of wanting consistance in skill types, it would be – in terms of balancing the game – the wrong step.

Im perfectly fine with balanced stance how it is. It is the go-to skill for when i need some stability. It doesn’t need to be buffed into an unstrippable boon, we need dolyak signet buffed/reworked to make me even think about taking that instead.

Latinkuro.9420:

hmm I see, so it is ok for thieves to have OP stealth and OP sure stomp from stealth that cannot be stopped, it is ok for ele’s to have a sure stomp via mist form stomp.

Someone else also needing a nerf doesn’t mean that you need a buff. Where would you get that idea?

Latinkuro.9420:

Balance stance is NOT a true stance !

Necromancer

• death shroud: 2nd health pool and damage dealing capability.
  imagine if when you pop death shroud someone could simply strip it from you ? oh the horror and the uproar on the forums.

Just a fyi deathshroud can be stripped. Moa will remove the necro from deathshroud, kill all minions.

Same goes for our healing stance. Unlike all the other stance it takes 3/4s to cast and the immunity doesn’t begin until after the 3/4s cast. No other stance requires a cast time, which confuses me as to why warrior healing stance is considered a stance.

Auesis.7301:

If you do this, then change the system so that only one stance can be used at a time. Using a second stance overwrites the first.

You can’t be in two different stances in a martial art at the same time unless you have 4 legs and 4 arms.

I’d prefer it just being the boons, honestly.

The problem with that would be if you had traits like Defy Pain or Last Stand while using another stance that could seriously screw you over. I personally wouldn’t care because I don’t really use those but if you made the stances override all that would do is make everyone swap out Balanced Stance for Dolyak Signet. Outside of WvW with food no one is going to give up Zerker Stance and you don’t wanna get stunned 2 seconds into Zerker and end up overriding it. They would have to totally rebalance stances by reducing CDs and durations so that you can swap from stance to stance without totally screwing yourself over.

It is a shame that Stances are basically Signets by another name but there’s no clean way to change them without totally invalidating a ton of skills/traits. It would be cool to see your character change is posture based on what stance you’re in though. Unless condis get changed to the point where Zerker Stance isn’t a requirement all making stances overwrite each other would do is remove Balanced Stance from play.

Auesis.7301:

If you do this, then change the system so that only one stance can be used at a time. Using a second stance overwrites the first.

You can’t be in two different stances in a martial art at the same time unless you have 4 legs and 4 arms.

I’d prefer it just being the boons, honestly.

This. It would be INSANELY overpowered if you could have unremovable Stability – as if you dont have enough access to stability now you want it so that it can be removed but the amount of times i see Warrior using several stances at once is a joke.

If you use one stance, no matter the duration used it should be removed and replaced with the new one.

Death Shroud can be stripped with moa or sufficient damage.

And all this time I thought warriors were a halfway decent class. Who knew they were so hindered by a strippable stability?

This must be why no one plays warriors.

This thread is pretty silly…

It’s strippable because it’s stability. Remember that having stability doesn’t impede you in any way that Mist Form, Elixir S, or Death Shroud does. All of these share something in common.. you have no access to your regular skills for the duration.

Seeing as Balanced Stance is still a must-have for competitive Warriors, and Warriors are still very competitive, what’s the problem again?

It would clearly break Dolyak Signet compared to Balanced stance because one would potentially be unstrippable.. what’s your excuse for why Dolyak Signet doesn’t give some un-strippable stability? Is that not a ‘true signet’ lol :P

Balanced Stance is one of the best utilites out there, bud. Kids would get wrecked if I could slot Balanced Stance on my Power Engineer.

ok, how about this then?

Balanced Stance
You enter into a balanced stance.
8 Stability: 8 s
8 Swiftness: 8 s
Interval: 1 s
Duration: 8 s
Breaks stun

Notes: Breaks stun on activation and grants 1 second of Stability and Swiftness per second over 8 seconds.

the “sure footed” trait will increase the duration from 8 seconds to 10 seconds. and i think overall boon duration needs to be around 50% for be useful in this situation.

so how does it feel like now?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

ok, how about this then?

Balanced Stance
You enter into a balanced stance.
8 Stability: 8 s
8 Swiftness: 8 s
Interval: 1 s
Duration: 8 s
Breaks stun

Notes: Breaks stun on activation and grants 1 second of Stability and Swiftness per second over 8 seconds.

the “sure footed” trait will increase the duration from 8 seconds to 10 seconds. and i think overall boon duration needs to be around 50% for be useful in this situation.

so how does it feel like now?

Gee maybe it’s not a good idea to make common Warrior stability completely impossible to strip and counter?

I can see that suggestion happening for things that have 20 second stabilities (elite transforms).

Why did you choose the ellementalist cantrip mistform to compare balance stance to and not amor of earth? Amor of earth is also cantrip ( Elle’s unique thing) and gives protection stability and breaks a stun. It even has a neat little graphic of floating rocks circling. Guess what, it can be stripped. Seems like you are picking and choosing skills to make your point. Does balance stance lock you out of using your skills like mistform? I guess it must, that has to be why you chose it to make your point.

So, wait, warriors have 3 abilities that can’t be stripped, etc. The complaint is, they don’t have four? How many do the other professions get? Do other professions get stability that cannot be stripped?

Chaith.8256:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

ok, how about this then?

Balanced Stance
You enter into a balanced stance.
8 Stability: 8 s
8 Swiftness: 8 s
Interval: 1 s
Duration: 8 s
Breaks stun

Notes: Breaks stun on activation and grants 1 second of Stability and Swiftness per second over 8 seconds.

the “sure footed” trait will increase the duration from 8 seconds to 10 seconds. and i think overall boon duration needs to be around 50% for be useful in this situation.

so how does it feel like now?

Gee maybe it’s not a good idea to make common Warrior stability completely impossible to strip and counter?

I can see that suggestion happening for things that have 20 second stabilities (elite transforms).

dolyak signet’s stability can still be stripped.

hmmm yeah i should probably reanimate my topic about rampage. thanks for reminding me!

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

dolyak signet’s stability can still be stripped.

hmmm yeah i should probably reanimate my topic about rampage. thanks for reminding me!

So.. you wouldn’t see a problem with buffing Balanced Stance to be un-strippable in practice and having Dolyak signet remain worthless by comparison?

You should probably call it a day regarding the skills & balance suggestions lol

Chaith.8256:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

dolyak signet’s stability can still be stripped.

hmmm yeah i should probably reanimate my topic about rampage. thanks for reminding me!

So.. you wouldn’t see a problem with buffing Balanced Stance to be un-strippable in practice and having Dolyak signet remain worthless by comparison?

You should probably call it a day regarding the skills & balance suggestions lol

after reading this, errr yes i think you are right.
i am a bit slow at catching up.
just ignore what i wrote.
in the other topic as well.

and yes, i will call it a day regarding skills & balance. > . <
later!

Syde.5961:

Same goes for our healing stance. Unlike all the other stance it takes 3/4s to cast and the immunity doesn’t begin until after the 3/4s cast. No other stance requires a cast time, which confuses me as to why warrior healing stance is considered a stance.

Considering how the stance works, 3/4th of a second is actually pretty fast. It makes you immune and uses the damage to heal you instead.

Cough cough. The Necromancer’s second health pool is our proffesion specific ability. You really shouldn t complain about a warrior skill. Warrior is op enough.

I dont get this post?!

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stance_removal_skills_quick_reference

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stance

IndigoSundown.5419:

So, wait, warriors have 3 abilities that can’t be stripped, etc. The complaint is, they don’t have four? How many do the other professions get? Do other professions get stability that cannot be stripped?

I believe rangers do. I’ve seen rangers immune to my cc many times with no indication why on them or their pet and it’s becoming more common.

Plexxing.2978:

IndigoSundown.5419:

So, wait, warriors have 3 abilities that can’t be stripped, etc. The complaint is, they don’t have four? How many do the other professions get? Do other professions get stability that cannot be stripped?

I believe rangers do. I’ve seen rangers immune to my cc many times with no indication why on them or their pet and it’s becoming more common.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shared_Anguish