Guild Wars 2

Warning, you are about to hear something scary……………………………..
Warriors are not op they are in a pretty decent stage right now, the real issue is compared to warrior, other classes are up. I’d say as a class w/o comparing to others, warriors feel pretty balanced. The player base (that means you guys) have to stop calling for nerfs on warrior and start calling for buffs on the other classes to get them to where the warrior is. (yes there are some individual things that can be argued for being op) Overall, I feel the warrior is balanced because you can pretty much find a way to make any build you want work (meaning any weapon set or build structure) if we buff the other classes to that point we will be one huge step closer to balancing the game.

Thank you for your time!

Ario.8964:

I’d say as a class w/o comparing to others, warriors feel pretty balanced

Andorra is a pretty big and influential country w/o comparing to others.

Have you noticed though, people who claim warrior is op are claiming so only because it does something better than their class? Well, if their class was able to do that equally (or as equal as it can be while keeping professions unique.) 90% of all QQ threads about warrior would be gone. The reason I say when not compared to others is that when you play through content as a warrior it feels pretty stable, things don’t generally feel too hard or too easy (depending on the content of course could lead to leaning either way) my point was to show that the warrior is in a pretty decent spot when compared to content and instead of nerfing the class, buff the other ones (as most of them need buffs anyway).

Hope that displayed my point better if not, then I am not sure what else I can do for you.

Warriors look more OP when compared to other classes is because they are OP. Balance in games are relative, if a class outshines others in many aspects and has little to no drawbacks, they need to be brought in line with the other classes, not the other way around.

Warrior is a solid B average student.

while his peers are all taking AP courses. but failing gym.

Problem is not that any one skill of the warrior is OP, it’s more that the warrior has so many good skills that it outshines other classes in more categories. Damage (sustain, spike, condition), defense, mobility. The combination of what a warrior brings is what makes it outperform the other classes and pushes the OP window.

Let me just say that I’ve encountered quite a few warriors recently who only take like 1k damage from each clone shattered, while at the same time they hit me for over 1k with autotattacks and 3-5k with other attacks.

Warriors have…

High defense.
High damage.
High mobility.
Lots of CC.
Lots of condi-cleanse.

And sometimes all (or most) of that in one build.

I mean, there ARE bad warriors. But if you encounter a properly built one who knows how to play, you WILL eventually get completely destroyed without even being able to scratch them yourself. I mean, Thieves stealth… can be super-annoying. Yet, I know if I manage to hit them hard| once or twice, they are in deep trouble. Warriors don’t need to stealth. They just shrug the damage off like it would barely tickle them. And even IF they get a bit “low” at some point (for a warrior, “low” means around 50% HP), there are stances that let them take no damage long enough to heal back up to full HP or at least almost full HP.

Edit: Had to insert a | because the words “hard” and “once” want to become kitten.

Ario.8964:

Warning, you are about to hear something scary……………………………..
Warriors are not op they are in a pretty decent stage right now, the real issue is compared to warrior, other classes are up. I’d say as a class w/o comparing to others, warriors feel pretty balanced. The player base (that means you guys) have to stop calling for nerfs on warrior and start calling for buffs on the other classes to get them to where the warrior is. (yes there are some individual things that can be argued for being op) Overall, I feel the warrior is balanced because you can pretty much find a way to make any build you want work (meaning any weapon set or build structure) if we buff the other classes to that point we will be one huge step closer to balancing the game.

Thank you for your time!

I couldn’t agree more! I was trying to explain this to someone just the other day. The ultimate goal should be to raise up every other class to where the warrior is at. Namely, a flexible profession that can be bent to fit just about any role, to an extent of course.

And for all you haters, I don’t play warrior.

the issue i see is not that they are op.. but they can just turn off other peoples game plan with no skill in playing.. fighitng conditions..ok no conditions for 10 seconds.. fighitng someone who wants to cc you turn off cc with stabliity. its not like they dodge rolled your spike damage and outplayed you. they hit one button and didnt have to really play for 10 seconds.. they just turn off damage also. so its not like.. learn to pay and you can avoid that.. nomatter what the warrrior does they can sit on point for 10 seconds they did not earn just because of the class

@zaxon: I completely agree there and that’s why I stated in my original post that there were some things that are pushing the op window that can be brought down but the point I’m trying to make is instead of taking down an entire class to satisfy a few people for a bit, why not just buff every other class to satisfy even more people for a much longer time? This then causes warriors to not be the content gods and encourages 1) More skillful gameplay as they cant just rely on their build to carry them because a more skilled player is playing a weaker class 2) More diversity will come because every other class, instead of having 2 awesome working builds, could instead be like the warrior and have at least 5 or 6.

i dont even think it is about weak or powerful.. i just dont want them to be rewarded for avoiding whole aspects of pvp. make them play the game also. not just put up immunities and auto attack while other people need to know what a cleanse is and how to dodge roll and manage a health bar.

It is no question that warriors outperform other professions in many aspects and that there are builds available to warriors, that achieve a all around very good defense against everything while still being able to hit hard. I wouldn’t necessarily call it overpowered, because they still can be outperformed even on those builds, but it is definitely an uphill battle for the other profession in most cases.

What the OP was getting at is, how do we deal with this situation. Do we nerf the warrior profession or do we buff the others. Seeing the problems of several other professions it sounds very reasonable to me, that it might be better to buff the other professions to be on equal par with the warrior.

For me personally in WvW and PvP I build my builds with non warrior professions solely to be able to defeat a good warrior. Because in my perception a build, that can do this, will perform well…

it is not about outperforming.. it is that underperforming players can still play well with warrior because they can avoid the more complex parts of pvp. i know top end warriors still know all the fundamentals and this dosent really apply to them. but people who have no idea what to avoid in pvp can still just auto attack thier face off without having to learn what to do in certian situations..

say a warrior is fighitng a condi anything.. and they go condi immune.. they are not out playing that other person and the condi spec can literally do 0 damage and has to stand next to the attacking warrior for 10 seconds(or whatever they are specced for). so if they have that..one active ignore painone passive ignore pain+stability it is a long period of just avoiding the basics of pvp. only once these cooldowns are over does the actual pvp start

stability gives the warrior the ability to not have to learn what any animations or important casts of other professions are. the only reason stability gets less crap is because atleast it is cleansable.

in top end pvp the players have to learn what all the offensive+defensive cooldowns of almost every other profession are in order to beat them(and how to spot thier animations). the warrior ultilities let them ignore this part of gameplay.

your examples are a bit weak imo. The steal you describe is already heavily traited, the thief has to give up other stuff in order to achieve that. Berserker’s stance only occupies a utility slot and can be traited for longer duration with an adept trait.

Corrupt boon is strong, no question there, but the conditions, you get, can be cleansed. Only the boon rip can not be countered directly. So 50% of the skill still counterable, or with a lucky dodge (happens more often than you would think) all of it. Same as lightning flash + X, depending on the X. If it’s Churning Earth for example, what I have seen some day in the past very often, then it is easily avoidable. Berserker’s stance is but available with the hit of a button. Just like that. And no one can do anything about it.

So all in all your examples are not the same as insta immunity against all conditions for 8-10 seconds.

my main issue is if they are on a point or something .. they become condi immune so you cant killthem if you are condi.. the second it goes away they get pooped on.. they obviously dont have the skill to hold the point but got 10 free seconds of cap for no reason.

im not saying that these things cause them to get kills because they still need to land skills. just saying that this gives them the ability to do things outside of thier skill lvl.

it is like stealth.which gives you pretty much a blanket protection. i just think if you become blanket immune to anything you should stop getting credit for capping . just like stealth. so you have to choose when to do these things. not just have a chain of events based on stalling..

should be the same for any blanket immune to anything. i understand that this would cause the need to a way to cancel the stance. but that would add skill and strategy.. like.. if you sit on a point and go immune for the full 10 seconds you lose the point pretty much.. in the same way another person cant steath cap a point.

a t s e.9614:

TyPin.9860:

your examples are a bit weak imo. The steal you describe is already heavily traited, the thief has to give up other stuff in order to achieve that. Berserker’s stance only occupies a utility slot and can be traited for longer duration with an adept trait.

Corrupt boon is strong, no question there, but the conditions, you get, can be cleansed. Only the boon rip can not be countered directly. So 50% of the skill still counterable, or with a lucky dodge (happens more often than you would think) all of it. Same as lightning flash + X, depending on the X. If it’s Churning Earth for example, what I have seen some day in the past very often, then it is easily avoidable. Berserker’s stance is but available with the hit of a button. Just like that. And no one can do anything about it.

So all in all your examples are not the same as insta immunity against all conditions for 8-10 seconds.

Yea but still, the skills that cant be dodged or interupted should never exist in the first place.

If berserker’s stance was nerfed then thieves/ medi guard would be the hard counter to warrior because of spammable blinds.

Blinds is the thing that kills warriors completly because only 2-3 skills deal damage while others dont do kitten unless its axe auto -attack. So if most of warrior’s attack miss its GG.

So yea berserker stance is OP but blind spam is also OP.

Don’t stand in smoke fields then?

Zerk stance would be fine if it didn’t last so long, it was strong at 6s…

i’d disagree, i’d say ele is what all classes should be like.
a bad ele will get destroyed, a good ele will do well, an expert master ele will be godly.
there are no carry builds with passives or AI crutches.

warrior has such a low skill requirement but also a very low skill ceiling,
there are no complex mechanics to master so there is only so much you can do with it.
it is the most basic class.
a bad warrior will do pretty good, a good warrior will do great, an expert warrior will do a little better than great.

tl;dr
on the surface wars seem OP because any idiot can play one and do well,
but they also have a lower skill ceiling than any other class,
so at expert levels they are the worst profession.

Liewec.2896:

tl;dr
on the surface wars seem OP because any idiot can play one and do well,
but they also have a lower skill ceiling than any other class,
so at expert levels they are the worst profession.

are they though

i’m not really following all the mlg leet esports stuff but if your theory is true then very few or none of the teams at the high end level of play will run a warrior
to be the worst, then logically, they must have the lowest representation in high end play

To be honest, those firefields covering 1/2 of the map are kinda annoying

Liewec, that was a very good point and I actually really loved that input. The reason I said warrior though is because of the build variety in that class, there are really no “required traits” that you need to be effective. (they also have lots of weapon choices which by bringing other classes up to them I would hope would get us some new weapons) but in skill requirement yes I think they should be more like ele, bad ones get wrecked and good ones do the wrecking.

Sarrs.4831:

Liewec.2896:

tl;dr
on the surface wars seem OP because any idiot can play one and do well,
but they also have a lower skill ceiling than any other class,
so at expert levels they are the worst profession.

are they though

i’m not really following all the mlg leet esports stuff but if your theory is true then very few or none of the teams at the high end level of play will run a warrior
to be the worst, then logically, they must have the lowest representation in high end play

well i was really talking about sticking 2 classes in a pit to fight :P
an expert warrior vs an expert ele would likely favour the ele.

in pvp though warriors are in almost every group due to the ridiculous amount of aoe damage they can put down with fire fields, arcing arrow and the regular aoe CC chains from hammer.
they excel at team fights.

Ario.8964:

Liewec, that was a very good point and I actually really loved that input. The reason I said warrior though is because of the build variety in that class, there are really no “required traits” that you need to be effective.

ah yep i totally agree there, we should be able to play interesting specs without being held down by mandatory traits (looking at you longbow ranger!)
however many people could argue that cleansing ire+adrenal health are mandatory traits, and anyone going that far into the defense tree might aswell throw the remaining points in to get 50% uptime retaliation from Spiked Armor

Eh, the fact that warriors can be the best at anything if they want to be says to me that they are the problem. Now I know I know, they can’t be the best at everything in the same build, I get that, but the point is there is nothing a warrior cant do if they want to. There is no underlying limitation to the class.

Look at guardians or necros.. they can spec however they want but they will never ever ever ever even complete for the title of fastest class. It cannot be done. A mesmer will never have the healing/regen potential of some other classes. A thief will never have the raw facetank survivability of the heavy classes.

I could go on, but the point is every other class has something they simply cannot and will never be the best at, regardless of their build, and I think that’s how the game should be. So, to me, the fact that warrior can be the best at anything (even if it’s not all at once) makes them stand out as the problem, rather than the goal, because their class doesn’t have an underlying flaw.

It’s not that warriors are the best at everything (although they are really strong for conquest due to LB-f1 and stances), the issue is about how easy it is for warriors to do what other classes have to work really hard to achieve.