[Good Fights]Sinndicate{Ele}Sinactic{Engineer}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}
Bringing back Trinity has a point.
1 2
You shouldnt need a healer, you shouldnt need anything. If you need a support, or need a controller, you’ve got a trinity again.
The problem isnt that support isnt viable, its just better to go full damage because you clear faster.
Controller however are pretty much unviable, due to how utterly resistant bosses and champions are against getting CCd.
However with the latest move to make PvE even easier, there is even less reason to want to go for the extra security of a Support over just another damage-pump to clear a dungeon faster.
But if we start to see imposed mechanics that force you to take a support build player, you’re already going back to a trinity. And it wont have the desired effect people want, people think it will make their support character more desired.
But people will just cherry pick the “best” support profession, and if thats Guardian everyone will want a support guardian.
Which then means non-guardian support still gets ignored, and every guardian thats not support will get berated for not being support and told to respec. We’ve got plenty of MMOs with a trinity and we know exactly what that lead to. Less versatility and build diversity, not more.
I’ll take my no-trinity game, thank you very much. And if that means the PUG-lords dont like to play with me, but i can play whatever i like when i go with friends, then so be it.
Because the PUG-gods will always find another “perfect” setup that they aspire to, and that setup will exclude most builds.
You shouldnt need a healer, you shouldnt need anything. If you need a support, or need a controller, you’ve got a trinity again.
The problem isnt that support isnt viable, its just better to go full damage because you clear faster.
Controller however are pretty much unviable, due to how utterly resistant bosses and champions are against getting CCd.However with the latest move to make PvE even easier, there is even less reason to want to go for the extra security of a Support over just another damage-pump to clear a dungeon faster.
But if we start to see imposed mechanics that force you to take a support build player, you’re already going back to a trinity. And it wont have the desired effect people want, people think it will make their support character more desired.
But people will just cherry pick the “best” support profession, and if thats Guardian everyone will want a support guardian.Which then means non-guardian support still gets ignored, and every guardian thats not support will get berated for not being support and told to respec. We’ve got plenty of MMOs with a trinity and we know exactly what that lead to. Less versatility and build diversity, not more.
I’ll take my no-trinity game, thank you very much. And if that means the PUG-lords dont like to play with me, but i can play whatever i like when i go with friends, then so be it.
Because the PUG-gods will always find another “perfect” setup that they aspire to, and that setup will exclude most builds.
The weakness of holy trinity is that you’re dependent on certain classes to fill the healer/tank role, and said healers and tanks are dependent on special healer and tank gear.
Control/support/damage doesn’t have a gear dependency (outside of a few edge cases with condi/boon duration), and with the last patch, you can change your spec wherever you want in the world. All you have to do is carry the weapons you need for your offsets (which you probably do already). If your group needs a support or a control player, you just switch weapons and utils and traits and done.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
no trinity plz.
k thx bai
The problem isnt that support isnt viable, its just better to go full damage because you clear faster.
The issue for me is that there is very little room to build for support.
Building for support over building for DPS leads to slightly longer boons and conditions (woho…) and slightly stronger heals (regeneration included, the only boon that has a strength increase from increasing a stat).
That’s it…
The trade off is simply not worth it in PVE, because the mobs so grossly violate the build balance found in PVP.
And Defiant is even worse, it reeks of a panicked bandaid “fix” to chained CC-ing.
IMO if the players chain-CC a mob, they should be allowed to win that way.
Thinking about it i suspect it was intended to fix world bosses. But was put onto anything champ or higher, to make sure they covered all the bosses without going over each one of them. End result was that it affected dungeons as well.
IMO an alternative to Defiant would be to put a “chill” on CC skills when used againt stronger mobs. This penalize the individual for poor use of the skills, but do not penalize the whole group unless their aim was to chain-CC the mob.
Then again, the mob aggro code makes world bosses pretty much CC-ed anyways. Unless someone on the back row is able to out-DPS every GS swinging DPS queen up front.
Looking at the posts here, the 80% of posters did not read a letter, and is making senseless and agressive replies, that have nothing to do with the topic of the post…Please dont just read the title, read its contents before making comments, or you are wasting up my efforts to create a constructive thread on the topic.
As for all the posters here that are blindly think, that the game would need a total remake to implement a better and more fun combat system, that the game needs gravely, to avoid this extreme favor of zerkers and warriors, here are some side notes :
1, You dont have to redesign the whole game, the “trinity” you hate so muck is alredy in it. They just need to rebalance the game stats to make them viable.
2, This extreme reliance on dodges is killing the tactical combat. Bosses should learn not to 1 shot players, so support skills are more viable, and support builds become more viable. *
- Note to this : *Try to improve the visibility and reaction time to instagib skills at least, so we can react to them (learn from Tera or something, players dont say it has the best combat from all mmo-s, because they fanboy it)
3,There are stats for damage, and “tanking”, but no real stats that benefit support. Seems like a half finished job to me instead of a purpose full deconstruction of trinity to me. Improving the stat for heals and adding one for boons would fix a LOT of things alredy on this topic.
These are my opinions and thoughts i wanted to share on all of this.
The problem is the scaling.
Let’s take a look at some common Warrior skills when you invest 100 points in their respective attribute (Power/Healing Power)
- Grewatsword Swing 321 -> 356 (13.5% increase)
- Hundred Blades 2519 -> 3794 (13.5% increase)
- Healing Signet 362 -> 367 (1.4 % increase)
- Healing Surge (Level 3) 9820 -> 9970 (1.5% increase)
- Damage calculated at base Power (916) with a Weapon Power of 1000 against an armor of 2000.
Healing calculated at base Healing Power (0).
So for 100 Power I get 13.5% more damage but for 100 Healing Power I only get ~1.45% more healing.
And this is all before taking critical hits into account.
tl;dr: Power has a ten times stronger effect on damage than Healing Power on healing.
And yet one of the biggest problems with Warriors is how they passively regenerate so kitten much health. So its not that healing is underpowered in your example, if Healingpower would scale 10x more effectively it would need all abilities to be severely nerfed without healingpower.
And then you get what you want, getting healingpower is useful. Unfortunatly a whole lot of abilities, skills and talents become worthless to the majority of the players who didnt get any healingpower.
And how would you suggest this applies to the nr6 heal? If that goes the same route, then it would heal for kitten if you dont have healingpower or be stupidly good if you do.
(edited by Terrahero.9358)
So you actually had to get some Healing Power in your build to be able to utilize your heals, and not get them basically for free?
Which would also discourage the “ZERK OR KICK” mentality currently prevalent for 90% of the games PvE content?
I fail to see the problem.
Looking at the posts here, the 80% of posters did not read a letter, and is making senseless and agressive replies, that have nothing to do with the topic of the post…Please dont just read the title, read its contents before making comments, or you are wasting up my efforts to create a constructive thread on the topic.
As for all the posters here that are blindly think, that the game would need a total remake to implement a better and more fun combat system, that the game needs gravely, to avoid this extreme favor of zerkers and warriors, here are some side notes :
1, You dont have to redesign the whole game, the “trinity” you hate so muck is alredy in it. They just need to rebalance the game stats to make them viable.
2, This extreme reliance on dodges is killing the tactical combat. Bosses should learn not to 1 shot players, so support skills are more viable, and support builds become more viable. *
- Note to this : *Try to improve the visibility and reaction time to instagib skills at least, so we can react to them (learn from Tera or something, players dont say it has the best combat from all mmo-s, because they fanboy it)
3,There are stats for damage, and “tanking”, but no real stats that benefit support. Seems like a half finished job to me instead of a purpose full deconstruction of trinity to me. Improving the stat for heals and adding one for boons would fix a LOT of things alredy on this topic.These are my opinions and thoughts i wanted to share on all of this.
Sadly what you fail to realize is that everything you’ve posted is just your opinion.
You think the combat system is not fun and could be better but I disagree with you. The system is fine and would not be better with a trinity.
You seem to think dodges are killing tactical combat but you fail to realize GW2 is not a turn based tactics game. It’s a MMO action game – with fluid combat and fast paced fights where reflex counts just as much as strategy and tactics.
If you think that part of the game should be " toned down" in order for the game to be more "tactical " this is again just your opinion which I disagree with entirely.
There are enough MMOs out there that play out like Excel spreadsheets – we don’t need this one to become that.
Also if you can’t react to the very telegraphed instagib moves in PVE as they are right now I have some bad news.
Seriously – almost all boss instsagib moves are so telegraphed you can dodge them with no problem at all.
Put some effort into improving your game before you ask it to be nerfed and made easier.
You don’t really see what support is – it is blinds, blocks, reflects, stealth, might stacking and more.
And if you argue that healing stats should be made more viable I’m here to tell you that will ruin the game. Why ?
1. unkillable bunkers in sPVP.
2. unskilled faceroll bunker trolololo Arah P4 without dodging once – remember that one? and it was done with the current system. Imagine how cool the game would get once people in tanky healy gear could faceroll everything even easier.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
The problem is the scaling.
Let’s take a look at some common Warrior skills when you invest 100 points in their respective attribute (Power/Healing Power)
- Grewatsword Swing 321 -> 356 (13.5% increase)
- Hundred Blades 2519 -> 3794 (13.5% increase)
- Healing Signet 362 -> 367 (1.4 % increase)
- Healing Surge (Level 3) 9820 -> 9970 (1.5% increase)
- Damage calculated at base Power (916) with a Weapon Power of 1000 against an armor of 2000.
Healing calculated at base Healing Power (0).So for 100 Power I get 13.5% more damage but for 100 Healing Power I only get ~1.45% more healing.
And this is all before taking critical hits into account.
tl;dr: Power has a ten times stronger effect on damage than Healing Power on healing.
Because this is not heal wars 2. The idea has always been to prevent healing from being effective enough to be able to outheal the damage dealt to you by the enemy.
In effect the way the game is now it is forcing you to fight and kill your opponent instead of trying to facetank his damage and whittle him down.
This is working as intended as it has eliminated both healers and tanks from a game that was advertised to not have healers and tanks.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
So you actually had to get some Healing Power in your build to be able to utilize your heals, and not get them basically for free?
Which would also discourage the “ZERK OR KICK” mentality currently prevalent for 90% of the games PvE content?
I fail to see the problem.
You do realize zerk or kick is a mentality that has nothing to do with healing power or healing in general.
It has everything to do with playing the game in an effective and profitable way.
No matter how you change healing – a certain meta set will always be required in groups that actually care about their time and time spent vs rewards gained.
This will never change. Nothing will discourage " zerk or kick " because it’s the only logical way to play the game if you’re interested in maximizing rewards and minimizing time spent.
At most you can make it into " other armor set or kick " – which would be such an improvement.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Blech. Not only do we not need a return to the trinity, we should be adjusting the AI back to the old GW1 default where most mobs would ruthlessly feast on you if you were low effective HP and in close range.
It trained people for PvP ahead of time that way, by making the mobs tend to target the weakest link. (outside of things like “55” builds, which worked against dumb players too)
The idea has always been to prevent healing from being effective enough to be able to outheal the damage dealt to you by the enemy.
According tho whom? Also, why am I able to do so right now, in full Zerker gear no less?
This is working as intended as it has eliminated both healers and tanks from a game that was advertised to not have healers and tanks.
Again, according tho whom? ANet?
The game was advertised by ANet as having a Damage/Suport/Control trinity, when control is absolutely unviable (defiant) and suport is just an afterthought.
The only thing this accomplished is eliminating any other playstyle than DPS.
This will never change. Nothing will discourage " zerk or kick " because it’s the only logical way to play the game if you’re interested in maximizing rewards and minimizing time spent.
The problem is that zerker is the only logical way to play 90% of PvE, period.
The only exceptions are enemies that can’t be crit (Wurm/Tequatl).
Ask yourself this: When was the last time you considered any other gear than Zerker, when was the last time (if ever) you considered building more Healing Power?
edit for clarity:
Im not saying “we need a tinity”, im just saying players get too easy access to healing/sustain without investing for it, which makes going full-DPS too easy.
(edited by Rengaru.4730)
According tho whom? Also, why am I able to do so right now, in full Zerker gear no less?
Video of that? Across all game modes and situations ofc, in zerker gear.
And no, you cannot outheal incoming damage in general. That’s the whole point. And before you re-iterate the “according to whom”, according to the game. It could only be more blatantly obvious if it wrote it across your screen in neon text every time you press the heal skill.
Im not saying “we need a tinity”, im just saying players get too easy access to healing/sustain without investing for it, which makes going full-DPS too easy.
People often say that GW2 only has subroles of DPS, but at the point where you only have one of the six RPG roles, the last one also disappears. There’s no “DPS”-role in GW2.
We all focus on dealing damage. To varying degrees. This is strictly different from how the 6 RPG-roles do it, so don’t confuse the two. If you had to project onto those, we’re all DPS, even the “bunker builds”.
Which is how GW2’s balance works. It has a lot of different types of DPS-classes and -specs. From very glassy high-risk-high-reward setups to very defensive whittle-them-down setups.
All DPS.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
(edited by Carighan.6758)
The idea has always been to prevent healing from being effective enough to be able to outheal the damage dealt to you by the enemy.
According tho whom? Also, why am I able to do so right now, in full Zerker gear no less?
This is working as intended as it has eliminated both healers and tanks from a game that was advertised to not have healers and tanks.
Again, according tho whom? ANet?
The game was advertised by ANet as having a Damage/Suport/Control trinity, when control is absolutely unviable (defiant) and suport is just an afterthought.The only thing this accomplished is eliminating any other playstyle than DPS.
This will never change. Nothing will discourage " zerk or kick " because it’s the only logical way to play the game if you’re interested in maximizing rewards and minimizing time spent.
The problem is that zerker is the only logical way to play 90% of PvE, period.
The only exceptions are enemies that can’t be crit (Wurm/Tequatl).
Ask yourself this: When was the last time you considered any other gear than Zerker, when was the last time (if ever) you considered building more Healing Power?
edit for clarity:Im not saying “we need a tinity”, im just saying players get too easy access to healing/sustain without investing for it, which makes going full-DPS too easy.
This game – on the premise of having no healers and tanks ( which is what Anet has stated) has very poor healing power scaling in order to keep people in check so they don’t build as healers or tanks.
Even so – Arah P4 was done without 1 dodge used – by full tanky healy specs.
You are able to self-heal as zerker in some parts of the game in order to allow you to have sufficient capacity to keep yourself in the game by yourself.
GW2’s core strength is independance – you can play without the need of other players to sustain you. If you’re good you can do it yourself. That’s something very few MMOs have and it’s very valuable.
In GW2 in a boss fight if 4/5 of the party wipe provided you hit your dodges and are good you can wipe that boss. What other MMO does that?
What you can’t seem to accept is that if zerker was changed than another set would just take its place – the community would be just like it is today – it would just be “knight or kick”.
As for my final point – GW2 was advertised as a trinity free game in the sense that it would have no healers and tanks.
I personally don’t remember being that much talk about a dps/support/control trinity – i feel this concept appeared mostly around these forums and retrospective of the game’s launch but regardless of that – poor implementation of control in the dps/control/support does not warrant the revival of tank/dps/healer in GW2.
And support is present in the game – you’re just ignoring it because of preconceived ideas brought from other MMOs.
In GW2 you can support without building for it.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
According tho whom? Also, why am I able to do so right now, in full Zerker gear no less?
Video of that? Across all game modes and situations ofc, in zerker gear.
And no, you cannot outheal incoming damage in general. That’s the whole point. And before you re-iterate the “according to whom”, according to the game. It could only be more blatantly obvious if it wrote it across your screen in neon text every time you press the heal skill.
Im not saying “we need a tinity”, im just saying players get too easy access to healing/sustain without investing for it, which makes going full-DPS too easy.
People often say that GW2 only has subroles of DPS, but at the point where you only have one of the six RPG roles, the last one also disappears. There’s no “DPS”-role in GW2.
We all focus on dealing damage. To varying degrees. This is strictly different from how the 6 RPG-roles do it, so don’t confuse the two. If you had to project onto those, we’re all DPS, even the “bunker builds”.
Which is how GW2’s balance works. It has a lot of different types of DPS-classes and -specs. From very glassy high-risk-high-reward setups to very defensive whittle-them-down setups.
All DPS.
So much truth in this post.
GW2’s class set-ups are all a variation of DPS from classic trinity MMOs. Different specs on the DPS spectrum.
Ultimately this is the deal : There are numerous trinity-focused MMOs out there where tanks and healers can play and feel that they are the core of the game, are wanted and needed.
GW2 by comparison and contrast is a DPS player’s game – and I think it should remain that. There’s nowhere else players that like this style of gameplay can perform as freely and effectively as here – and because of this GW2’s player demographic consists mostly by this kind of player.
Why change the game to suit a minority of players that want to be healers and tanks when there are plenty of games that provide that for them already?
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
And yet one of the biggest problems with Warriors is how they passively regenerate so kitten much health.
The problem with HS is that its passive heal does as much HPS as most other professions active heals. A warrior actually gimps himself if he activates the HS as the active heal do not compensate for the downtime on the passive heal.
Also, it is more a PVP problem than a PVE problem.
2. unskilled faceroll bunker trolololo Arah P4 without dodging once – remember that one? and it was done with the current system. Imagine how cool the game would get once people in tanky healy gear could faceroll everything even easier.
If that was one guy in healing build holding the whole group up, it would be eyebrow raising. But it was a whole group in healing gear spamming their best AOE heals.
If even one of them ran anything but healing gear, i suspect the outcome would have been very different.
I think if Defiant had more of a rotational period instead of being just a constant buff, then we could instantly see some more interesting builds come out that aren’t strictly min-maxing.
Adding trinity roles won’t make pve more fun. If anything it will just assimilate it with every other mmo with just slightly different mechanics.
I think if Defiant had more of a rotational period instead of being just a constant buff, then we could instantly see some more interesting builds come out that aren’t strictly min-maxing.
Adding trinity roles won’t make pve more fun. If anything it will just assimilate it with every other mmo with just slightly different mechanics.
My thought on this; bosses lose 1 defiant stack every 3 seconds. You can still chew through defiant stacks if you need CC skills on a tighter schedule, but if you’re not able to drop large amounts of crowd control, you can still reliably put something out there once every 15 or so seconds.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
2. unskilled faceroll bunker trolololo Arah P4 without dodging once – remember that one? and it was done with the current system. Imagine how cool the game would get once people in tanky healy gear could faceroll everything even easier.
If that was one guy in healing build holding the whole group up, it would be eyebrow raising. But it was a whole group in healing gear spamming their best AOE heals.
If even one of them ran anything but healing gear, i suspect the outcome would have been very different.
Watch the video – most of them had tanky gear.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
I think if Defiant had more of a rotational period instead of being just a constant buff, then we could instantly see some more interesting builds come out that aren’t strictly min-maxing.
Adding trinity roles won’t make pve more fun. If anything it will just assimilate it with every other mmo with just slightly different mechanics.
This. The content design is to blame for the lack of variety. Remember how much people kittened about the Toxic Alliance mobs having heavy condition usage, a downed state, and they would try to stomp and rez?
Because that content was different enough from the rest of pve that it was a shock to their system. The rest of us that pvp a lot already knew how to deal with that kind of thing so it was kind of a neat surprise to see some pve variety for a change.
If anything pve needs a content review with an eye to being a subtle training mode to get people ready for pvp like how the mobs acted in GW1.
Which means the mobs should vary more in stats, abilities and tactics, instead of being the usual stale tank n spank with arbitrary immunities slapped on willy nilly.
(edited by Overkillengine.6084)
Yes, there’s some variety, and it needs to be spread:
- Toxic Alliance mobs. They’re amazing. They’re how all mobs should act, tbh. Actively interrupting you, rezzing each other, needing to be stomped, overloading you with conditions, helping each other.
- Some mobs, for example the champs at the 3Worm, are virtually immune to direct damage. This all of a sudden makes a certain amount of condition damage crucial to killing the enemy. More of that please, vary stats. Enemies with plate armour should have very high Toughness.
So basically, my wishlist would be this:
- Most, if not all, mobs have a downed state and help each other up from it.
- Most mobs have varying stats. Brawny but shirtless types have high Vitality, Plate Armour gives very high defence against direct damage on the other hand. Go by what makes sense here, rocks aren’t impressed by swords at all.
- More cunning mobs (Bandits, Elite guards, etc) will actively avoid AEs, interrupt your casted abilities and re-apply their conditions after a cleanse. They do this instead of having better stats as above.
- Some mobs (snipers, assassins) are serious opportunists, and will always beeline for a vulnerable target. Someone downed will make the assassin vanish, now you got ~5 seconds until he finishes that stomp. Snipers will aim at low-health targets, better time your dodge.
- Mobs with AE attacks do opportunistic attacks. They use their AEs if players stack or stay close together, and switch to single-target when they’re spread out. Naturally for these mobs, stacking up would be a terrible idea, they’re balanced to overpower you when you do.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Yes, there’s some variety, and it needs to be spread:
- Toxic Alliance mobs. They’re amazing. They’re how all mobs should act, tbh. Actively interrupting you, rezzing each other, needing to be stomped, overloading you with conditions, helping each other.
- Some mobs, for example the champs at the 3Worm, are virtually immune to direct damage. This all of a sudden makes a certain amount of condition damage crucial to killing the enemy. More of that please, vary stats. Enemies with plate armour should have very high Toughness.
So basically, my wishlist would be this:
- Most, if not all, mobs have a downed state and help each other up from it.
- Most mobs have varying stats. Brawny but shirtless types have high Vitality, Plate Armour gives very high defence against direct damage on the other hand. Go by what makes sense here, rocks aren’t impressed by swords at all.
- More cunning mobs (Bandits, Elite guards, etc) will actively avoid AEs, interrupt your casted abilities and re-apply their conditions after a cleanse. They do this instead of having better stats as above.
- Some mobs (snipers, assassins) are serious opportunists, and will always beeline for a vulnerable target. Someone downed will make the assassin vanish, now you got ~5 seconds until he finishes that stomp. Snipers will aim at low-health targets, better time your dodge.
- Mobs with AE attacks do opportunistic attacks. They use their AEs if players stack or stay close together, and switch to single-target when they’re spread out. Naturally for these mobs, stacking up would be a terrible idea, they’re balanced to overpower you when you do.
These are really creative and interesting ideas.
Now ask yourself – does the average GW2 player – you know the one that’s casual and pops out his credit card all the time – the one that Anet caters to the most when designing the game – does he enjoy fighting this kind of opponent.
Do you really think the majority of players that will get stomped by mobs 2.0 that you’re proposing will try to get good instead of going " omg nerf mobs so op cant win" on the forums and raging and quitting?
There was a reason mobs were nerfed.
There’s a reason most PVE is zerg open world and press 1 to win.
There’s a reason Teq and Wurm got a lot of flak when first they came out.
If the common denominator to which the game is aimed at ( the stereotypical can’t dodge to save his life casual that will however buy gems and get stuff on the TP) can’t handle the content then that content isn’t added.
For people who want more challenge with more rewards – we will never get this in the open world. Or in dungeons.
The only way to get this will be new instanced content aimed at elite players. More fractals. Maybe Hard Mode.
And even then the AI won’t be reworked. Too much work to please relatively few players while alienating and annoying the majority.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Well, with the new trait changes, every class can change build and role on the fly.
My mesmer is signet-based, 4/4/6/0/0. In less than 1 sec, I can go 2/4/4/4/0, take the trait for healing mantras and voilà I’m a “healer”.
What I mean is that “roles” aren’t class-specific in this game and every class can be shaped and match the player’s taste.
Adding the “trinity” is like to dictate how a class MUST be played, but the game isn’t designed like that.
I really dislike that “can respec on the fly”, personally. I feel like it washed out any point of having a spec. I’ll just have the best one for each fight, anyhow. :S
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
According tho whom? Also, why am I able to do so right now, in full Zerker gear no less?
Video of that? Across all game modes and situations ofc, in zerker gear.
And no, you cannot outheal incoming damage in general. That’s the whole point. And before you re-iterate the “according to whom”, according to the game. It could only be more blatantly obvious if it wrote it across your screen in neon text every time you press the heal skill.
Im not saying “we need a tinity”, im just saying players get too easy access to healing/sustain without investing for it, which makes going full-DPS too easy.
People often say that GW2 only has subroles of DPS, but at the point where you only have one of the six RPG roles, the last one also disappears. There’s no “DPS”-role in GW2.
We all focus on dealing damage. To varying degrees. This is strictly different from how the 6 RPG-roles do it, so don’t confuse the two. If you had to project onto those, we’re all DPS, even the “bunker builds”.
Which is how GW2’s balance works. It has a lot of different types of DPS-classes and -specs. From very glassy high-risk-high-reward setups to very defensive whittle-them-down setups.
All DPS.
So much truth in this post.
GW2’s class set-ups are all a variation of DPS from classic trinity MMOs. Different specs on the DPS spectrum.
Ultimately this is the deal : There are numerous trinity-focused MMOs out there where tanks and healers can play and feel that they are the core of the game, are wanted and needed.
GW2 by comparison and contrast is a DPS player’s game – and I think it should remain that. There’s nowhere else players that like this style of gameplay can perform as freely and effectively as here – and because of this GW2’s player demographic consists mostly by this kind of player.
Why change the game to suit a minority of players that want to be healers and tanks when there are plenty of games that provide that for them already?
Not so true – in WvW straight DPS dies quickly, same with higher level areas. You have to have a hybrid build in order to survive.
The trinity is a simplistic mechanic as it depends on – Tank to TAUNT and keep agro (there is none of that in GW2); Straight healer spec – waste of a slot as you can heal yourself or have support heals.; straight DPS – yes you can do that but it is a waste since most straight DPS end up downed in GW1.
The reason the Trinity was used is the AI’s for mobs were simplistic. They are not so simplistic any more.
Yes, there’s some variety, and it needs to be spread:
- Toxic Alliance mobs. They’re amazing. They’re how all mobs should act, tbh. Actively interrupting you, rezzing each other, needing to be stomped, overloading you with conditions, helping each other.
- Some mobs, for example the champs at the 3Worm, are virtually immune to direct damage. This all of a sudden makes a certain amount of condition damage crucial to killing the enemy. More of that please, vary stats. Enemies with plate armour should have very high Toughness.
So basically, my wishlist would be this:
- Most, if not all, mobs have a downed state and help each other up from it.
- Most mobs have varying stats. Brawny but shirtless types have high Vitality, Plate Armour gives very high defence against direct damage on the other hand. Go by what makes sense here, rocks aren’t impressed by swords at all.
- More cunning mobs (Bandits, Elite guards, etc) will actively avoid AEs, interrupt your casted abilities and re-apply their conditions after a cleanse. They do this instead of having better stats as above.
- Some mobs (snipers, assassins) are serious opportunists, and will always beeline for a vulnerable target. Someone downed will make the assassin vanish, now you got ~5 seconds until he finishes that stomp. Snipers will aim at low-health targets, better time your dodge.
- Mobs with AE attacks do opportunistic attacks. They use their AEs if players stack or stay close together, and switch to single-target when they’re spread out. Naturally for these mobs, stacking up would be a terrible idea, they’re balanced to overpower you when you do.
These are really creative and interesting ideas.
Now ask yourself – does the average GW2 player – you know the one that’s casual and pops out his credit card all the time – the one that Anet caters to the most when designing the game – does he enjoy fighting this kind of opponent.
Do you really think the majority of players that will get stomped by mobs 2.0 that you’re proposing will try to get good instead of going " omg nerf mobs so op cant win" on the forums and raging and quitting?
There was a reason mobs were nerfed.
There’s a reason most PVE is zerg open world and press 1 to win.
There’s a reason Teq and Wurm got a lot of flak when first they came out.If the common denominator to which the game is aimed at ( the stereotypical can’t dodge to save his life casual that will however buy gems and get stuff on the TP) can’t handle the content then that content isn’t added.
For people who want more challenge with more rewards – we will never get this in the open world. Or in dungeons.
The only way to get this will be new instanced content aimed at elite players. More fractals. Maybe Hard Mode.And even then the AI won’t be reworked. Too much work to please relatively few players while alienating and annoying the majority.
That is all we need, more ELITISM in games. Yes, let’s do that…..sarcasm off
There are enough fractals – we need more regular content.
I’d be fine even if they make it straight DPS/DPS/DPS. Monster Hunter/Vindictus/etc are some of the most fun I’ve had in games, so as long as its fun as a concept for what the game is trying to achieve, what’s wrong with it?
However, Defiance needs to go. A mechanic which basically renders an entire set of skill-subclass useless is just silly.
I’d be fine even if they make it straight DPS/DPS/DPS. Monster Hunter/Vindictus/etc are some of the most fun I’ve had in games, so as long as its fun as a concept for what the game is trying to achieve, what’s wrong with it?
However, Defiance needs to go. A mechanic which basically renders an entire set of skill-subclass useless is just silly.
I really dislike that “can respec on the fly”, personally. I feel like it washed out any point of having a spec. I’ll just have the best one for each fight, anyhow. :S
Definitely agree. It’d be like being able to change build in the middle of a mission/exp zone in GW1.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
For buffing the role of support… I’d love to see “Healing Power” apply to “Boon Strength” as well.
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