Guild Wars 2

It’s just causing to many issues right now to have them on such low hp.
I’d rather see thieves have same hp as engi/ranger/mesmer but some evades removed.
And eles would just become less ultra squishy.

It just makes balance extra hard for you anet.

As someone who mains a thief, I don’t agree. Looking at numbers alone, thiefs have a horribly low base health, that I understand. You have to remember that base health isn’t the only factor in survival though. Remember active defense such as dodging and stealth is our primary form of survival. Increasing health would only make thieves overpowered.

You recommend removing some evades, but why would I want to be like a warrior? If i want to rely on being a damage sponge, ill just switch to a warrior. On that note, I have successfully built into a bunker thief before, focusing on healing and dodging. All you need to do is switch your gear to vitality and your all set. There’s plenty of gear variability to address the lack of base health.

I have no idea about Eles. From an outsider looking in eles seem to be the weakest solo class and are only useful as supports. So maybe a health increase would help, but I can’t say either way since im not all that familiar with them

Well having low hp doesnt nessesarly mean that you are squishy. Look at guardians, they have the same base hp and are quite resilient.

And a good thief is really hard to kill if you dont lock him down…

For eles if you look back a half year or so, they were op even with the low hp pool. I think they were simply overnerfed.

I have full confidence that, if the ArenaNet developers read this, they will realize the egregious error they have made and increase thief base health by 30%, and nerf elementalist base health by 20%.

Thedenofsin.7340:

I have full confidence that, if the ArenaNet developers read this, they will realize the egregious error they have made and increase thief base health by 30%, and nerf elementalist base health by 20%.

Yeah!
They’ll also realize that light armor isn’t really appropriate for elementalists, and move us to a new tier of our own, with roughly 10% less armor!
I mean really, how do you wear cloth while manipulating fire?

I think that the low tier health pool is good for thieves and eles. That being said, however, I think it would be fair to have the low tier pool raised from 10k to 12k, or something similar to make it just a little bit easier to work with.

Personally, for thief its fine they have insane burst, stealth and other mechanics. Elementalist however they have had their damage nerfed, mobility nerfed, healing nerfed. They have insanely long cool downs on weapon skills, utilities and elite skills.

Thedenofsin.7340:

I have full confidence that, if the ArenaNet developers read this, they will realize the egregious error they have made and increase thief base health by 30%, and nerf elementalist base health by 20%.

Guardian would have to be lowered too.

Those GC Guardians are just ~way~ to hard to take down w/ their 11k hp & 2400 armor.

Amins.3710:

Thedenofsin.7340:

I have full confidence that, if the ArenaNet developers read this, they will realize the egregious error they have made and increase thief base health by 30%, and nerf elementalist base health by 20%.

Guardian would have to be lowered too.

Those GC Guardians are just ~way~ to hard to take down w/ their 11k hp & 2400 armor.

No give Guardians Warrior base HP and put on full zealots gear!

Thieves’ HP are fine.
Eles need a lot of buffs to be on par with most classes in any pvp envirorment that is not zerg fight with a support role, so I would really like an HP boost.

Danaj.3014:

As someone who mains a thief, I don’t agree. Looking at numbers alone, thiefs have a horribly low base health, that I understand. You have to remember that base health isn’t the only factor in survival though. Remember active defense such as dodging and stealth is our primary form of survival. Increasing health would only make thieves overpowered.

You recommend removing some evades, but why would I want to be like a warrior? If i want to rely on being a damage sponge, ill just switch to a warrior. On that note, I have successfully built into a bunker thief before, focusing on healing and dodging. All you need to do is switch your gear to vitality and your all set. There’s plenty of gear variability to address the lack of base health.

I have no idea about Eles. From an outsider looking in eles seem to be the weakest solo class and are only useful as supports. So maybe a health increase would help, but I can’t say either way since im not all that familiar with them

eles have the highest burst damage in the game and can burst / support with the same build because of their attunements. I don’t see a issue with giving eles a few lower cds but a higher base health would be a bad idea.

Simply reverting the nerf to Mist Form would make the Elementalist viable again.

I just think something should be added in return for lower base HP. Basically, base HP should balance versus say, higher endurance regeneration. So the less you can take, the more you can dodge. Same effective HP.

wildfang.9670:

eles have the highest burst damage in the game and can burst / support with the same build because of their attunements. I don’t see a issue with giving eles a few lower cds but a higher base health would be a bad idea.

Where do people get this from.

Eles don’t have the highest burst in the game. That title goes to rifle warriors killshot damage. There’s no higher single target damage in the game.

Also eles can’t burst and support. It’s either/or. If you spec for burst you have about 12k health and 1800 armour total. If you spec for support you have about 2800 attack. See how long you last for in a fight with 1800 armour and 12k health….

I mean common sense must tell you that since eles start off with lowest armour values and lowest hp totals they have to sacrifice something in order to get something?

As i figured you’re a warrior player, so understandably you haven’t any idea about having to give up damage for survivability. This is what happens when you live in warrior world for too long, high damage/high survivability become the norm.

Just give all classes 15k hp and 2k armor base. Having almost 3x as much base EHP vs direct damage as a warrior compared to an ele is ridiculous.

Every profession should have maximum health. Why is health tied to a profession anyway?

The lower your health the more damage a profession should do. But in this game it’s the opposite.

wildfang.9670:

eles have the highest burst damage in the game and can burst / support with the same build because of their attunements. I don’t see a issue with giving eles a few lower cds but a higher base health would be a bad idea.

This Burst you are talking about….How many skills, attunement swaps and utilities does it take to actually pull off? Also are we talking PvE or WvW/PvP?

Thief can hit for 16k+damage in ONE hit, Killshot warriors can do insane 1 hit damage as well. For an Ele to do anywhere near that, they have to go full zerker play without making ANY mistakes and cant have ANY skills in the burst rotation which is like 6 skills or something silly that cant be missed, dodged, evaded, immuned, invul, blinded and other things….

You might not understand this, at a guess i would say you play Warrior but some classes with Ele being at the top are classes that have to sacrifice A LOT to get anything. We start with the lowest health and lowest armor. We build to deal damage and die in seconds. We build to survive and we won’t be killing anyone.

Unlike warriors that get pretty much the best of everything in one nice noob friendly class.

Guard should be added to this list…. A guard has the same tier of health, and while they have higher armor, when they trait to actually deal damage they can be 1 shot just as easily as an ele….

Thieves are already hard enough to kill jumping into stealth every few seconds… you need to get a coordinated CC train off just to stop them re-stealthing.

Also, Guardian with higher HP would be unstoppable.

Both of these classes would need changes before boosting HPs outright.

No issue with Elementalist HP being increased though.

As a thief I’m fine with low hp, i just know i have to save my dodges. Personally i wouldnt mind if eles got moved into a higher health tier. they deserve it.

eleshazar.6902:

Guard should be added to this list…. A guard has the same tier of health, and while they have higher armor, when they trait to actually deal damage they can be 1 shot just as easily as an ele….

Not really. Heavy armor reduces direct damage by 30ish percent with no toughness invested, compared to light armor. “Just as easily” is a bit of an overstatement.

Elementalists and thiefs are fine with their low health.

thief has stealth and high burst potential.

Ele was nerfed, but can be fixed. Passive procs on atunement swap (condi remove on water, protection on earth, swiftness on air and blind on fire) without investing in traits could help to improve their active defense. Diamond skin needs to go or no 100% immunity (maybe 50% lower duration while above 90% health). And then they need slightly higher damage. To compensate their low health.

whyme.3281:

Elementalists and thiefs are fine with their low health.

thief has stealth and high burst potential.

Ele was nerfed, but can be fixed. Passive procs on atunement swap (condi remove on water, protection on earth, swiftness on air and blind on fire) without investing in traits could help to improve their active defense. Diamond skin needs to go or no 100% immunity (maybe 50% lower duration while above 90% health). And then they need slightly higher damage. To compensate their low health.

Nerfing Diamond skin isn’t really an option, seeing as how the trait does absolutely nothing against the vast majority of classes. It needs a complete overhaul. Having a grandmaster trait be completely passive on a class that is supposed to be the ultimate high-skillcap active class is sort of silly to begin with, and making it both random and half as useful as it currently is wouldn’t solve that.

But don’t touch Guard HP. They are so pigeon holed into full support anymore HP would be over powered

Warriors have high HP and High Damages+High Bursts already; buffing Thief and Elementalist HP would result them in the same category.

Cause they too have same High Damages+High Bursts…

There’s enough outcry concerning warriors Overpowerd HP, so why add these 2 classes to make it worse?

Seriously,

I don’t get it??

Burnfall.9573:

Warriors have high HP and High Damages+High Bursts already; buffing Thief and Elementalist HP would result them in the same category.

Cause they too have same High Damages+High Bursts…

There’s enough outcry concerning warriors Overpowerd HP, so why add these 2 classes to make it worse?

Seriously,

I don’t get it??

well for the simple fact that ele dont have: The insane regen, insane mobility, insane defense, blocks, immunities, insane CC and weapon swaps. Lets not forget that ele have insane cool downs on most weapon skills and nearly all utilities are average with insane cool downs.

If ele had their health buffed to say 15k it would mean they would not be forced to go as defensive when gearing, traiting and such to counter the disadvantage that they start with having lowest health and lowest armor.

They have had their damage nerfed, mobility nerfed, healing nerfed. What have they gotten to compensate that with? Nothing.

Their “High burst” requires how many weapon and utility skills to pull off? one dodge, invul or block that burst is lost and that ele is either dead or running thanks to the fact they will have very low health and armor.

Burnfall.9573:

Warriors have high HP and High Damages+High Bursts already; buffing Thief and Elementalist HP would result them in the same category.

Cause they too have same High Damages+High Bursts…

There’s enough outcry concerning warriors Overpowerd HP, so why add these 2 classes to make it worse?

Seriously,

I don’t get it??

I actually have to agree somewhat, because I’m of the opinion that the single thing that elementalists need to be defined by is their lack of passivity. The game really needs to reward this somewhat more than it does now though, which is where I feel the issue lies, not in the lack of passive defenses. The same goes for the thief in a sense, in that I don’t think adding passive defenses is the way to go. It might be better to give them some more active defense that isn’t stealth, because stealth suffers from the problem that it punishes active defense more than passive defense. There could also be a secondary way to activate stealth skills, like dodges, but that would have to be a different topic.

I’ve made this argument before and I still stand by it. Having this huge discrepancy in base-HP is bad for the game and makes balance much harder than it needs to be.

Of course these changes can’t just happen without context.

But even a 2200 HP bump would be sufficient, bringing the base HP up from 10.800 to 13.000.

• Elementalists might need a nerf to their Vigor and/or Protection uptime, but not much since they’re not that strong currently.

• Thieves could take a nerf to Feline Grace or a replacement for Vigorous Recovery.

• Guardians could take a nerf to both their Protection and Vigor uptime.

All in return for 2200 more base HP. Sounds like a fair trade to me.

Consider at least in www..
If you can’t burst a thief in 3 seconds it won t die….

Since going full zerk and oneshotting other dps profession is a choice, and since equipping few defensive pieces of equipment let thieves troll Tier 1 servers spawn with no effort, i believe thief HP are already more than OK.

I m ok to an HP buff if revealed debuff gets tripled.

Ele has still to put 20 points in water due to mandatory traits….so buffing HP is pointless

LordByron.8369:

Consider at least in www..
If you can’t burst a thief in 3 seconds it won t die….

Since going full zerk and oneshotting other dps profession is a choice, and since equipping few defensive pieces of equipment let thieves troll Tier 1 servers spawn with no effort, i believe thief HP are already more than OK.

I m ok to an HP buff if revealed debuff gets tripled.

Ele has still to put 20 points in water due to mandatory traits….so buffing HP is pointless

9 seconds of reveal? Please tell me you have just never played thief before and are severely misinformed…

Dee Jay.2460:

I’ve made this argument before and I still stand by it. Having this huge discrepancy in base-HP is bad for the game and makes balance much harder than it needs to be.

Of course these changes can’t just happen without context.

But even a 2200 HP bump would be sufficient, bringing the base HP up from 10.800 to 13.000.

• Elementalists might need a nerf to their Vigor and/or Protection uptime, but not much since they’re not that strong currently.

• Thieves could take a nerf to Feline Grace or a replacement for Vigorous Recovery.

• Guardians could take a nerf to both their Protection and Vigor uptime.

All in return for 2200 more base HP. Sounds like a fair trade to me.

Vigor is already being nerfed across the board. And as to protection… please play a guard. The only build that guards have good protection on is hammer guard, and hammer guards are rarer than you would think because the dps of hammer is significantly lower than GS. I would give up protection completely on my guardian in a heartbeat to get the HP that a warrior has, or its passive regen.

And toughness…. does nothing to mitigate the condi meta. Conditions ignore toughness completely so having a high armor (which a guard like me that does damage doesn’t have) is not as useful as you are making it out to be. Also in order to deal damage I don’t wear toughness armor which means my armor is not reducing this magical 30% of blunt damage like you suggest. My armor is only about 800 more than an ele or thief.

I play a thief, and we definitely DON’T need more hp. If you dramatically reduce stealth, perhaps.

hmm its true that ele has low hp, but then again ele has lots of access to healing and protection which other classes dont have. in addition to that eles aoe is very bursty. in spvp i could see a slight buff to hp though, but def not in wvw. eles in wvw are part of the meta and already very strong. so if u buff them too much u could create a new warrior-like disaster. lets buff other aspects about ele, before thinking about hp buffs.

same with thieves. i mean a thief can burst u down in seconds. bckstabs that crit for 11k on light armor followed by heartseeker spam 3k,5k,5k….if thief gets too much hp, they will become even more frustrating. if id run pure glass cannon on my mes id have around 15k hp and die in 1 hit by such a thief.
if u want more hp, how about more pvt gear then and less berserker? i agree that war is way to bursty for the armor and hp they get, but dont add 2 more classes to this nightmare. id rather see thieves reworked, so there is more builds out there that are not just class cannons and ele skills and utilities and trait reworks for their spvp performance. eles used to be great in spvp, but the countless nerfs and buffs to other classes has pushed them in the corner.
but in wvw the op suggestion would create 2 new monsters next to the war.

I can get 20k HP on my thief. Then again I don’t spec glass cannon.

eleshazar.6902:

Dee Jay.2460:

I’ve made this argument before and I still stand by it. Having this huge discrepancy in base-HP is bad for the game and makes balance much harder than it needs to be.

Of course these changes can’t just happen without context.

But even a 2200 HP bump would be sufficient, bringing the base HP up from 10.800 to 13.000.

• Elementalists might need a nerf to their Vigor and/or Protection uptime, but not much since they’re not that strong currently.

• Thieves could take a nerf to Feline Grace or a replacement for Vigorous Recovery.

• Guardians could take a nerf to both their Protection and Vigor uptime.

All in return for 2200 more base HP. Sounds like a fair trade to me.

Vigor is already being nerfed across the board. And as to protection… please play a guard. The only build that guards have good protection on is hammer guard, and hammer guards are rarer than you would think because the dps of hammer is significantly lower than GS. I would give up protection completely on my guardian in a heartbeat to get the HP that a warrior has, or its passive regen.

And toughness…. does nothing to mitigate the condi meta. Conditions ignore toughness completely so having a high armor (which a guard like me that does damage doesn’t have) is not as useful as you are making it out to be. Also in order to deal damage I don’t wear toughness armor which means my armor is not reducing this magical 30% of blunt damage like you suggest. My armor is only about 800 more than an ele or thief.

if u have 800 armor more than the basearmor on ele has then u has a basereduction of 30.35%. means the dmg u receive is lower by 30.35% then it would hitting a ele.

= ((your armor+toughness)-1836/(your armor+toughness))*100

also 800 more armor then ele or a thief??? u know both have a different base?