Building momentum = another sneaky nerf!
That 500% is only for Phantasmal Warlock so it isn’t the entire class, just like this isn’t the entire class, just builds that no one actually uses being made worse.
Really comparing a 5 point trait that gives 10 per skill with 4 skills that can have 10 second or less cooldowns and don’t require a hit in a line people use to a 15 point trait that requires the target to be hit with one of 2 skills that use the same resource in a line not used. Why not compare this trait to you know a healing skill being reset? Self revival skill having its cooldown reset is pretty terrible too.
I chose the trait line but I didn’t choose the minor that screws me.
Engineers have 4 tool belt skills, yes. They can have 10s or less CD? Don’t make me laugh.These are the toolbelt most used skills in PvP :
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Regenerating_Mist
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenade_Barrage
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Big_Ol%27_Bomb
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Ammo
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_S
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Mist
The one with the shortest CD is the most useless for condi spec (which most engis run):
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Wrench
Throw Wrench hits in a line, btw.
So yeah, 10s CD or less…I’m gonna have to go with no.
Now you wanna compare building momemtum to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inertial_Converter
Are you aware that no condition engineer has more than 10 points in tools these days? are you also aware that since elixir R is no longer a stun breaker, no one uses it? Engineers either go with 3 kits or 2 kits + Elixir S/Rocket boots.
And now you’re mentioning the trait that resets your heal at 25% hp… it’s good, no doubt, but very few engineers are using it (I mean condition engineers, not decap, ofc).
Overall :
1) I completely fail to see your point, yes engineer has some good minors but so does warrior. I compared two minors that could be compared because they both give endurance. The fact that the engineer’s minor gives less endurance could be explained by the fact that it is a 5 point minor, and since toolbelt skills have far longer CD than what you thought, it’s not that good either (it is decent, same as the post-patch building momemtum).
2) You seem completely clueless about engi.
It’s a bug fix, even the wiki reported the trait as being bugged.
It’s not ‘boohoo every class has bad minors so lets nerf all of the decent ones", it’s more like "boo hoo most minor traits are bad and this is a bug fix, not a nerf ". Glad I could help.
You suffer every single day through http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Last_Refuge ? do you play WvW? most thieves in PvP play s/p or d/p with 10 30 0 0 30 and s/d thieves don’t have points in SA usually. Because really, WvW is not meant to be balanced or it wouldn’t have PvE gear.
Given that you repeated yourself, it does sound like are you literally suffering from Last Refuge. I am so very sorry for you.
When did I say I had issue with warriors? I said they were OP, which they are. You are getting very much frustrated and have been unconstructive from the start.
Again, I suggest you open a thread and offer ways to buff that minor, I’m sure ArenaNet will listen as they always do and will definitely buff warrior asap as it is in dire need of help.
wiki maby says its giving 50% endurance back.. where it also says: endurance gained: 15
well full endurance is 30..
So the tooltip is right because you DO get 50% endurance back.. if it was a tooltip bug you wouldn’t get 15 (50%) endurance back.
If it did give only ~5 (15%) endurance back, well than it was a tooltip bug…
so now its both the tooltip AND the skill on its own where both bugged? and they needed 1,5 year to fix that?! in a terrible way..I get that 15 (50%) is to much because you even get it on lvl 1 adrenaline. but make it so you get more if you spend more adrenaline..
You quoted a message that wasn’t even adressing you. Please read this:
Before spouting more nonsense. Full endurance is 100, and 15 is 15% (10 is also 10%, as that other endurance-related trait shows).
I quoted on a section of your post here that is about building momentum..
and because this topic is about building momentum and I made it I can reply on this wouldn’t be it?
and indeed your right about endurance is 100 and not 30.
tested it with Wild Strike that give 10 endurance back.
But that still doesn’t address the big nerf on it, because 15 endurance on a burst skill that cant be spammed like AA Wild Strike or something like that is terrible as a minor Master trait. and it still doesn’t promote you to use lvl1 or lvl2 or lvl3 adrenaline…
Bug fix resulting in a nerf =/= nerf with intent to nerf because it is op
I’m through with explaining this to you guys.
That 500% is only for Phantasmal Warlock so it isn’t the entire class, just like this isn’t the entire class, just builds that no one actually uses being made worse.
Really comparing a 5 point trait that gives 10 per skill with 4 skills that can have 10 second or less cooldowns and don’t require a hit in a line people use to a 15 point trait that requires the target to be hit with one of 2 skills that use the same resource in a line not used. Why not compare this trait to you know a healing skill being reset? Self revival skill having its cooldown reset is pretty terrible too.
I chose the trait line but I didn’t choose the minor that screws me.
Engineers have 4 tool belt skills, yes. They can have 10s or less CD? Don’t make me laugh.These are the toolbelt most used skills in PvP :
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Regenerating_Mist
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenade_Barrage
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Big_Ol%27_Bomb
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Ammo
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_S
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_MistThe one with the shortest CD is the most useless for condi spec (which most engis run):
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Wrench
Throw Wrench hits in a line, btw.
So yeah, 10s CD or less…I’m gonna have to go with no.
Now you wanna compare building momemtum to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inertial_Converter
Are you aware that no condition engineer has more than 10 points in tools these days? are you also aware that since elixir R is no longer a stun breaker, no one uses it? Engineers either go with 3 kits or 2 kits + Elixir S/Rocket boots.And now you’re mentioning the trait that resets your heal at 25% hp… it’s good, no doubt, but very few engineers are using it (I mean condition engineers, not decap, ofc).
Overall :
1) I completely fail to see your point, yes engineer has some good minors but so does warrior. I compared two minors that could be compared because they both give endurance. The fact that the engineer’s minor gives less endurance could be explained by the fact that it is a 5 point minor, and since toolbelt skills have far longer CD than what you thought, it’s not that good either (it is decent, same as the post-patch building momemtum).
2) You seem completely clueless about engi.
See you fell for my trap and gave me what I was expecting, no condition build uses even 5 points in Tools? You mean exactly like no condition Warrior uses 15 points in Strength. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inertial_Converter resets the cooldown of http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R and even Med Kit tool belt heal. What your poor condition build chooses not to use it? So you won’t mind if they nerf them right, its not part of a meta build right? But its such a good trait!
See you fell for my trap and gave me what I was expecting, no condition build uses even 5 points in Tools? You mean exactly like no condition Warrior uses 15 points in Strength. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inertial_Converter resets the cooldown of http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R and even Med Kit tool belt heal. What your poor condition build chooses not to use it? So you won’t mind if they nerf them right, its not part of a meta build right? But its such a good trait!
Lol? I compared 5 in tools to 15 in strength because both are used (and are similar). I said no engineer has 15 in tools these days, try to follow a bit. Many condition warriors have 20 in strength. If they don’t, all the better because then they don’t suffer from the bug fix. It looks as if you confused yourself with your own “trap”.
Med Kit? are you aware that everyone uses Healing turret? Did you not read what I wrote about Elixir R? 15 in tools is a good trait but since the stun breaker was removed from Elixir R there is no room for it in a build (you need at least two kits and a stun breaker) and besides that particular skill 15 in tools is not particularly amazing.
I wouldn’t mind a bug fix if there was a bug regarding that trait.. but there isn’t. It is working as intended. Since the trait is not amazing, Arenanet could nerf it, but I fail to see why.
Are you going somewhere with this? so far all I can see is that you like to display your complete lack of knowledge about what engineers use.
(edited by Uhtameit.2413)
Tired of you playing this kittened “bug fix” card that ANet used. It was a nerf plain and simple and as I said no good condition Warrior uses 20 points in Strength kitten. Main hand mace Warrior is terrible with a condition build and the sacrifices far outweigh the gains in such a build. If you are seriously going to keep saying bug fix they better treat all the previous bug fixes the same way, I want to see Phantasmal Warlock hit like a noodle. So once again “15” points is too much for the meta but they have such a good trait there, why is this not nerfed since it isn’t meta?
It was bug fix plain and simple and as I said many Warriors use 20 points in Strength meow. Main hand mace Warrior is fantastic with a condition build and the gains far outweigh the sacrifices in such a build. If you are seriously going to keep saying nerf they better treat all the previous nerfs the same way.
You don’t make sense. It’s not that 15 is too much for the meta, it’s that the trait is bad since Elixir R nerf. Are you saying that ArenaNet is nerfing builds that aren’t meta? Condition warrior with 20 strength is meta though… :’)
I said quite a few times that 15 tools is not very good outside of elixir R which is now useless because you don’t have the room for a skill that doesn’t bring damage nor a stun breaker.
ArenaNet is not doing this to nerf the warrior even in non-meta specs (which are still strong thanks to HS) but because it is a bug fix.
Is that any clearer or do I need to explain it to you another time?
It was bug fix plain and simple and as I said many Warriors use 20 points in Strength meow. Main hand mace Warrior is fantastic with a condition build and the gains far outweigh the sacrifices in such a build. If you are seriously going to keep saying nerf they better treat all the previous nerfs the same way.
You don’t make sense. It’s not that 15 is too much for the meta, it’s that the trait is bad since Elixir R nerf. Are you saying that ArenaNet is nerfing builds that aren’t meta? Condition warrior with 20 strength is meta though… :’)
I said quite a few times that 15 tools is not very good outside of elixir R which is now useless.
ArenaNet is not doing this to nerf the warrior even in non-meta specs (which are still strong thanks to HS) but because it is a bug fix.
Is that any clearer or do I need to explain it to you another time?
See repeating doesn’t work when its false :*(
Please show me all the people complaining about 20 Strength Warriors, also Elixir R is useless now. I’m still waiting on them to fix the previous bugged skills that were fixed wrongly.
Repeating doesn’t work at all when you read 30% of my posts and when your knowledge of the game seems very poor.
You
1) play bunker thief
2) don’t know which utilities/heal engineers use
3) don’t know 20 strength condi war can be good
I don’t know how we can be playing the same game.
I don’t need to show you, just google it a bit and have your fun. And yeah, seems you need to re-read : there is a difference between a bug and a wrong tooltip. But sure buddy, I’m waiting for them to refix the fixed bugs. Given that they’re already slow to fix bugs, we’re probably gonna wait another 4 years but it’s alright. Warriors need to be buffed !
We obviously play a different game with you never playing solo or team queue, therefore not having any experience in anything that matters. Complaining about non meta Warriors is an obvious sign of bad.
I did play team queue some time ago. I didn’t complain at any point about non-meta warriors, I said they were strong thanks to the Healing Signet. Try to follow a bit, I know it’s hard for you but your lack of understanding doen’t apply to everyone
You played team queue but never got into the top 1000 for a moment, no difference. Healing Signet isn’t as amazing a heal as you think, after the 8% nerf Healing Turret will have a whole 10 health per second less while giving most of the heal in an AoE with 2 conditions removed.
I played with RL friends so yeah I didn’t do very well, I fail to see how that would affect my arguments.
gosh, you’re confused you’re even mistaking Healing Signet and Healing turret. Healing Signet is OP as hell, the 8% nerf will not be enough. If you think otherwise you’re even more clueless than you let on.
You’re trying to say something about AoE heal : Healing turret only gives 1k heal via regeneration to allies (+1k if you combo it).
I played with RL friends so yeah I didn’t do very well, I fail to see how that would affect my arguments.
gosh, you’re confused you’re even mistaking Healing Signet and Healing turret. Healing Signet is OP as hell, the 8% nerf will not be enough. If you think otherwise you’re even more clueless than you let on.
You’re trying to say something about AoE heal : Healing turret only gives 1k heal via regeneration to allies (+1k if you combo it).
What you don’t even know your own class? Healing Turret does 4490 healing per use to allies and removes 2 conditions from each, its already far better than Healing Signet but just slightly worse at self healing, though not if you have any conditions on you. So your real life friends do worse than people who solo join it into the top 1000s.
Oh that would be sweet but no, the 4k heal is for you and you alone. Good job ignoring most of my post.
So yes, learn how to read :
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Turret
Deploys a turret that heals you briefly, then regenerates you and your allies.
The heal is for you, the regeneration is AoE. Gosh you’re clueless. Unless that was changed, I haven’t played in a while.
Healing Turret > Healing Signet? nice joke. And yes, HT removes 2 conditions. Too bad it is the only way for an engineer to remove conditions (so it would make sense that the engi can actually remove conditions with his heal) but let’s not get into that.
Yes, my RL friends do worse. Your point is? Nevermind that, you’re going nowhere.
You’re entirely clueless about engineer and you’re starting to try to annoy me with personal attacks, it’s a bit pathetic.
Are you serious? Healing Turret->Cleansing Burst->Detonate Healing Turret does 7010 health per 20 seconds with 4490 and 2 conditions removed to 4 other allies. This is a really really basic thing so I’m really wondering who is more clueless. Must be me to even wonder about such a thing. Also its been like this since launch.
(edited by glaphen.5230)
Nah, you’re not doing a 7k AoE heal and removing 2 conditions on allies, that’s just for you. Allies get 1k from regeneration and 1k from combo and that is all AFAIK. I don’t even know where you get your 4490 from…Again, maybe it has changed while I wasn’t looking since I haven’t played in a while. Given how clueless you are in general about this game, I doubt it.
Again, good job on ignoring most of my post. To end this, I shall say that I enjoyed both your tears and your limited thinking abilities. Good night, little dove !
Oh and no, Healing Turret used to heal in one use, and now you have to use it then overload it. That further proves my point, you’re clueless
The 7k is for you and the 4.5k is what the allies receive in addition to your 7k self heal. No it has ALWAYS worked like this, difference is it had a longer cooldown a long long time ago as a tool belt skill, which was even better because of Mine Field.
(edited by glaphen.5230)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Turret
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Burst
Try and get to 4490. Have fun with that. And no, it didn’t work like that before.
Nighty !
Regenerating Mist skill: Reduced Healing Turret Toolbelt skill recharge from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.
Healing Turret skill:
Reduced the deployed heal by 50%.
Healing range is now 2520-3270.
No longer applies 2 stacks of regeneration every time the turret fires. Now applies 3 seconds of regeneration every 3 seconds.
No longer passively creates a water field.
Normalized the ranges of all aspects to 480 (previously 240, 360, or 480).
Cleansing Burst skill:
Reduced Healing Turret overcharge skill recharge from 60 seconds to 15 seconds
Now heals as much as deploying does.
Healing range is now 2520-3270.
Now applies 5 seconds of regeneration.
Removes 2 conditions when activated.
Now deploys a 3-second water field.
Normalized the ranges of all aspects to 480 (previously 240, 360, or 480).
This was back last April 30th. The first post you had was 9 months ago.
Healing Turret-2520
Cleansing Burst-2520-AoE
5s Regeneration-650-AoE
Detonate Healing Turret-1320-AoE
7010 every 20 seconds with 4490 of that being AoE with 2 conditions removed in an AoE and 1/2 the cast time. You can also sacrifice the 1320 blast finisher for a 5 second less cooldown on the rest by picking it up instantly.
You’re not reaching 4490 in any way here. Besides, you don’t seem to know what overloading is. Create an engineer, experiment, and then come back.
Been playing since release, unlike you btw.
Oh and thanks for demonstrating that the turret wasn’t always used the way it is now. You proved yourself wrong. Quite a feat, really.
You’re not reaching 4490 in any way here. Besides, you don’t seem to know what overloading is. Create an engineer, experiment, and then come back.
Basic math too much for you? 2520+650+1320=4490.
You’re not reaching 4490 in any way here. Besides, you don’t seem to know what overloading is. Create an engineer, experiment, and then come back.
Been playing since release, unlike you btw.
Oh and thanks for demonstrating that the turret wasn’t always used the way it is now. You proved yourself wrong. Quite a feat, really.
Yes I was wrong, they did change it but not really, in the end it used to be overpowered because Mine Field made it god mode. So yes it used to be even better. Again your first post is 9 months ago which is after the changes.
Basic reading too hard for you?
Deploys a turret that heals you briefly, then regenerates you and your allies.
The heal is for you, the regen is for you and your allies.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Turret
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Burst
The allies get 390 + 650 from regen (I’m not even sure they get both, I never bothered to check tbh) +1320 from the combo if they stand right beside you. That’s 2360.
Mine field? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mine_Field ? what does this have to do with anything? If anything, HT is better now because it can remove 2 conditions and the overload has a much shorter CD (20s against 60s).
My first post was 9 months ago, but I have been playing since release. You do realize playing does not equal posting in the forums, right?
(edited by Uhtameit.2413)
Basic reading too hard for you?
Deploys a turret that heals you briefly, then regenerates you and your allies.
The heal is for you, the regen is for you and your allies.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Turret
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_BurstThe allies get 390 + 650 from regen +1320 from the combo if they stand right beside you. That’s 2360.
Though not mentioned, affects allies as well. Guess it might be for someone. Also the Healing Turret regeneration doesn’t happen if you use Cleansing Burst.
Mine field? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mine_Field ? what does this have to do with anything? If anything, HT is better now because it can remove 2 conditions and the overload has a much shorter CD (20s against 60s).
My first post was 9 months ago, but I have been playing since release. You do realize playing does not equal posting in the forums, right?
Mine Field used to be a blast finisher giving ridiculous AoE healing on use. You were playing the game during periods after the changes happened, if you didn’t see the changes you didn’t look.
You still fail at reading half my posts, it’s getting boring.
As for the “affect allies as well”, I’m pretty sure that’s only for the regeneration part. Even if i’m wrong, HS is still a better heal although with less team support.
In any case, this is completely off topic and I’ve made my point several times so I’m off.
You still fail at reading half my posts, it’s getting boring.
As for the “affect allies as well”, I’m pretty sure that’s only for the regeneration part. Even if i’m wrong, HS is still a better heal although with less team support.
In any case, this is completely off topic and I’ve made my point several times so I’m off.
We are comparing 350 health per second with 224 and 2 conditions removed to your allies to 392 you do realize right?
It has many bugs too, it’s not exactly a decision. Sometimes the tooltip is wrong, sometimes the skill is bugged. I’d bet that there are more bugs than wrong tooltips.
If you think distracting strikes is not good then you don’t even know the class you’re defending. This brings the discussion to an end, I enjoyed the warrior fanboy tears.
You lost almost all credibility when you said that mace/shield + mace/sword with distracting strikes is actually a good condi build. I could give you a million reasons why it sucks.
Any experienced Warrior will tell you that it is nothing more then a gimmick build, and a bad gimmick build at that.
You still fail at reading half my posts, it’s getting boring.
As for the “affect allies as well”, I’m pretty sure that’s only for the regeneration part. Even if i’m wrong, HS is still a better heal although with less team support.
In any case, this is completely off topic and I’ve made my point several times so I’m off.
We are comparing 350 health per second with 224 and 2 conditions removed to your allies to 392 you do realize right?
Read the bold part, be nice. Also, let’s forget that warrior has immunities and base hp and toughness that are higher than engineer’s. Right?
Please stop embarassing yourself and QQ about the bug fix if you want, otherwise create another thread “Healing signet is not OP, buff plz”.
It has many bugs too, it’s not exactly a decision. Sometimes the tooltip is wrong, sometimes the skill is bugged. I’d bet that there are more bugs than wrong tooltips.
If you think distracting strikes is not good then you don’t even know the class you’re defending. This brings the discussion to an end, I enjoyed the warrior fanboy tears.
You lost almost all credibility when you said that mace/shield + mace/sword with distracting strikes is actually a good condi build. I could give you a million reasons why it sucks.
Oh, no. No no no no no. I never said that mace/shield PLUS mace/sword is a good condi build. I meant that mace/shield or mace/sword PLUS longbow with distracting strikes is a good condi build. Mace/shield or mace/sword replacing sword/sword, of course.
The longbow is a must, having the same main hand weapon twice would be terrible indeed.
You still fail at reading half my posts, it’s getting boring.
As for the “affect allies as well”, I’m pretty sure that’s only for the regeneration part. Even if i’m wrong, HS is still a better heal although with less team support.
In any case, this is completely off topic and I’ve made my point several times so I’m off.
We are comparing 350 health per second with 224 and 2 conditions removed to your allies to 392 you do realize right?
Read the bold part, be nice. Also, let’s forget that warrior has immunities and base hp and toughness that are higher than engineer’s. Right?
Please stop embarassing yourself and QQ about the bug fix if you want, otherwise create another thread “Healing signet is not OP, buff plz”.
42 health per second more that is being nerfed to 10 is somehow comparable. Stances aren’t even close to as good as Shouts in a condition build and base stats barely matter, the armor is like 4% physical damage reduction difference.
See you fell for my trap and gave me what I was expecting, no condition build uses even 5 points in Tools? You mean exactly like no condition Warrior uses 15 points in Strength. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inertial_Converter resets the cooldown of http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R and even Med Kit tool belt heal. What your poor condition build chooses not to use it? So you won’t mind if they nerf them right, its not part of a meta build right? But its such a good trait!
Aha! You activated my trap card!
The problem is that most traits are boring passive kitten and now they are “fixing” (conveniently at the same time when nerfing other dodge traits) one of the more interesting ones.
This trait actually make the class bit more deeper (especially in PvE where no one uses burst). Sure, it’s bit too strong but why can’t they balance it instead of destroying? They can make it scaled based on adrenaline spent or even move it to a major trait.
And how many nerfs for hammer? I lost counting on this weapon… too many!
and yet after the patch hambow will remain as ridiculous as it is now.
whenever i play hammer war i roam around 3 shotting eles.
it is ridiculous, it needs atleast 50% damage reduction across the board.when it comes to warrior nerfs i have no remorse, 6 months of hambow is enough…
such a low risk/high reward build that is so incredibly easy to play, it should have been nerfed months ago.Funny whenever I play ele I 3 shot hambow warriors. How are you not doing it?
Thats a pretty bold statement. 1st off I bet you are in WvW with ascended gear and the warriors your fighting must be uplevels in full zerk with no defensive traits what so ever if you kill them with you s/d combo in three hits. Even if you are full glass, that just wouldn’t happen vs a fully decked out lvl 80 warrior. Sure you can kill them fast when landing s/d burst combo, but it isn’t going to be in three hits.
I have to agree…all these nerfs to warriors because warrior is too strong?..nope, simply because condition warrior didn’t even need to invest in condition runes to be effective and whole heartedly because of hambow. All of this could have been avoid by changing where merciless hammer was found, but nope..lets make it’s stationary knockback mobile now. You have n’t even touched on burst mastery, slowing down and back loading of axe, flurry doesn’t hit as many times as it states, savage leap often misses, rush rubber bands you and greatsword requires a frustrating amount of set up to get a 50% chance at actually having a full channeled attack connect. Rather than make all builds even and reduce the ones that are obviously dominating, we’ll just nerf the entire profession and say goodbye to any chance of having a nice stable of varied builds. Necro told us this was coming..now we get to tell engineer that they’re next.
They certainly need a nerf. The dev posted balance philosophy specifically states that warriors are intended to be weak to control conditions, yet they have access to way to much condition removal.
Building momentum is a great condition removal.