Guild Wars 2

Here’s a very basic topic to discuss, Burst. Is burst capacity too high compared to defense? Is power creep an issue to address in the feature pack?

For me, I think our burst capacity is a bit too high. Even with the crit damage reduction earlier this year. This is solely aimed at WvW specs. Since power scaling is most effected there.

Well, I can certainly agree that the benefits of offensive stats certainly out weigh the befits of the defensive ones. Giving them much greater value.

The problem is that folks like seeing big numbers and action, and that draws players to the game. Doesn’t make it right, doesn’t make it wrong. It just makes it the path they chose.

Yes burst is way to high in WvW but the really dangerous specs are those that stack alot of defense and use stacks/guard stacks/might to still get insane damage potential.

I don’t think so. Without effective burst damage, all you’ll find is tankier bunker builds like you see in sPvP since burst isn’t viable due to stat caps. And that’s not only boring and restrictive on build diversity, but I think people are confusing massive might stacking on classes/builds that shouldn’t be and “burst” classes/build setups. Like is that D/D hyper-burst thief that enters a fight with no utilities a real threat outside of a 1v1? Not really at all, no. Is that guardian with 3k toughness and 3k power a threat in any given situation, though? Yea.

Burst can be countered easily by getting good.
I’d say condi bunkers are more of a problem.

No. Burst is Fine. There are only a few builds which are op.

Deli.1302:

Burst can be countered easily by getting good.
I’d say condi bunkers are more of a problem.

^When it comes to dueling 1v1’s and small pug groups yes, condi bunkerish specs. Zergs PVE, and people who say top end TPVP players will say otherwise.

Zergs run PTV or cavalier specs for durability. No effective zerg runs berserker or a DPS-optimized setup except for maybe a select few necromancers or elementalists, and the rest of which are running even tankier.

Burst can be extreme in this game.
It is possible to make a 1 shot build or die in under 3 seconds and thats in spvp, wvwvw i dont want to know lmao.
As has often been pointed out its a team game and the only reason some prof mechanics the burst and spam are tolerable.
Huge/ridiculous burst? well you can get rezzed\
aoe spam, well there should be a guardian/ ele there to cleanse.
Not in an organized team with voip?
Well you’re out of luck and can just hope you happen to be playing the scissors to you’re opponents paper.

u’re totally wrong. Burst is all ok as in wvw as in pvp. IT’s even particly underweithed in pvp or smallscale wvw.

DeceiverX.8361
Zergs run PTV or cavalier specs for durability. No effective zerg runs berserker or a DPS-optimized setup except for maybe a select few necromancers or elementalists, and the rest of which are running even tankier.

what do u call zerg? it’s randoms, so there is no “running”, each one runs what they want, but promoting pvt for 40+ group is totall madness.

RUnning tanky u need udnersiege fire or when u’re tired and hardly focusign, otherwise u must balance it enough and not 3400 armor 25k health guardians.

there is burning whine thread, not burst discussion thread.
Both are ok in gme, just seems some people got rekt by seperate.

In conquest Spvp/Tpvp this is not the case. There it is the bunker builds that can prove very valuable. The bursty classes forfill different roles but both are nicely balanced out i think.

I think that WvW has strengths in both directions.

You can be something really bursty and instagib people
You can be a Dire Thief and last forever

How do you close this range?

Hvaran.6327:

u’re totally wrong. Burst is all ok as in wvw as in pvp. IT’s even particly underweithed in pvp or smallscale wvw.

DeceiverX.8361
Zergs run PTV or cavalier specs for durability. No effective zerg runs berserker or a DPS-optimized setup except for maybe a select few necromancers or elementalists, and the rest of which are running even tankier.

what do u call zerg? it’s randoms, so there is no “running”, each one runs what they want, but promoting pvt for 40+ group is totall madness.

RUnning tanky u need udnersiege fire or when u’re tired and hardly focusign, otherwise u must balance it enough and not 3400 armor 25k health guardians.

there is burning whine thread, not burst discussion thread.
Both are ok in gme, just seems some people got rekt by seperate.

I call a “zerg” a large group of players. I expect them to be organized running GWEN builds under a skilled driver in T2+ WvW. I don’t mean to sound elitist here, but your lack of WvW experience/experience on high-tier servers is showing. Running what you want might work under some times of the day when guild groups are not around on some of the lower-tier servers, but unless you’re solo roaming or doing small havoc at the higher tiers, you’re playing dedicated GWEN roles. Most players will be using PTV or Nomad’s with support-based traits. Simply, if your entire blob doesn’t have a constant 25 might, you’re doing it wrong.

Burst isn’t the problem IMO, the insane amount of crit chance is. In most other games, RuneScape is one that comes to mind, the highest crit chance you could get before a recent update was something like 8 or 10%. Maybe not the exact number, but it wasn’t ridiculously high like GW2 where people range from 50-100% crit chance.

I would love to see the overall crit chance nerfed into the ground. Being able to hit 8-10k or even higher in a single shot is ridiculous and should not even be possible. I have seen eviscerate hit for 3-4k in a non-crit and that seems high enough honestly. Instead of nerfing crit damage, they should have nerfed crit chance. If you lower the amount of crits being done, being able to have 100+% crit damage (before ferocity) is not even that bad.

No, not at all and power/crit damage doesn’t need any more direct nerfs.

For any class maybe except save a PU Mesmer or a Thief, you still need a good amount of toughness for roaming. And I’m not talking about facerolling 1st time WvW’ers. Often times you may find yourself fighting outnumbered and you will inevitably get hit. If that one hit takes you out of the fight for a long time, then what use are you really?

I disagree with offensive stats outweighing defensive ones in the context of WvW. If that were the case from a purely mathematical standpoint we all should be running full berserker, and that is clearly not the case for most players in WvW. Maybe in a purely 1v1 context but WvW isn’t 1v1. I think solo roaming encourages a balance with a slight emphasis on offensive stats. Having toughness/defense however is still very important and I find a lot of my success from a personal standpoint in fighting outnumbered or 1v1’s in general come from having high offensive output while at the same time being able to deal adequately enough with being hit.

In small havoc groups you can have so many different combinations. Maybe somebody who is mostly full berserker to take down targets quickly while having a tank/support that can soak damage, protect squishies and provide utility and healing. Or maybe somebody who is balanced in that regard. A group that is balanced like that in general I think tends to beat a group that is full berserker, it just isn’t an ideal team composition. Just like in sPvP it wouldn’t be ideal either.

Aside from thieves and maybe the odd ranger I rarely see people go full berserker, or anybody that goes full berserker and has been really successful. Yeah, they are videos and what not but there is a lot they aren’t showing you. And in the end, I feel like less objectives are being attained due to your inability to handle certain things.

And in zergbusting, building highly defensive for most classes is emphasized. For GvGs most classes build highly defensive with a few odd classes going high damage, but even then they still have decent toughness.

WvW is all about taking objectives and PPT. Having large zergs and a couple havoc groups tend to work well in capturing these objectives. And both encourage a balance and a mixture of good defense and offense, if not leaning more towards the defensive side and let might stacks augment the somewhat lower damage. Defense/support/utility in most of these cases are the most important things to be mindful of.

On one note however. I took a bunker Guardian in all nomad gear to WvW and I defended a supply camp against 4 players for about 5 minutes until my zerg arrived and killed them off. Sure, I probably should of died against competent players, but from a PPT standpoint I helped my server by doing that and going that build. As I probably would of died by going full zerker or even a balanced build. Going defensive can be a good stalling tactic.

DeceiverX.8361:

Hvaran.6327:

u’re totally wrong. Burst is all ok as in wvw as in pvp. IT’s even particly underweithed in pvp or smallscale wvw.

DeceiverX.8361
Zergs run PTV or cavalier specs for durability. No effective zerg runs berserker or a DPS-optimized setup except for maybe a select few necromancers or elementalists, and the rest of which are running even tankier.

what do u call zerg? it’s randoms, so there is no “running”, each one runs what they want, but promoting pvt for 40+ group is totall madness.

RUnning tanky u need udnersiege fire or when u’re tired and hardly focusign, otherwise u must balance it enough and not 3400 armor 25k health guardians.

there is burning whine thread, not burst discussion thread.
Both are ok in gme, just seems some people got rekt by seperate.

I call a “zerg” a large group of players. I expect them to be organized running GWEN builds under a skilled driver in T2+ WvW. I don’t mean to sound elitist here, but your lack of WvW experience/experience on high-tier servers is showing. Running what you want might work under some times of the day when guild groups are not around on some of the lower-tier servers, but unless you’re solo roaming or doing small havoc at the higher tiers, you’re playing dedicated GWEN roles. Most players will be using PTV or Nomad’s with support-based traits. Simply, if your entire blob doesn’t have a constant 25 might, you’re doing it wrong.

you talking about pug group or guild group? Zerg is not definition.
My lack? U sick or smthing? Oh i forgot i started from vabbi and promoting it’s meta for 50v50 fights. From wich harlem shake server are you? We seems not knowing each other and u making some statements because u think u’re right and u had noone to proove u opposite, let me guess u playing ebg 24/7 with ofc high skill included? We got dozens of guys like that on our server that think they actually give alot to their group and they don’t die that fast so they seems better then others balanced guys and can call others not bunkers “rallybots”.
In zVz it’s doesn’t matter mostly if u’re full tank or not, blocks and dodges will save you but not full pvt. Stand still with your full pvt in bomb of 15 balanced melees for 2-3s and u will be ded as gaem.
EU-SFR here. EU, zbs was all running 30+ blob killing squads with melee at least half berserker. FULL PTV or nomad is the most stupid thing u can do in wvw, don’t tell stories how ptv melee kite all the people in pug zerg and bers eles necros kill all the enemie. Tha’s bs, u need balanced sustain and dps on melee. IF your zerg will run ptv or nomad kitten they will do 0, just a walking walls. “It’s not bunker the node and make enemie ragequit #esports.”
Running full support or 1000+ healing power guardian is useless waste. Yes u can go for 400-600 healing power but do not overkill and do not go full pvt or nomad, unless u in situations i said above.

U’re not in world of warcraft duneguon tank/heal/dps/dps/dps, it’s another gaem, better adapt cause it’s ded soon and u still running full ptv…

killahmayne.9518
good point though

And in zergbusting, building highly defensive for most classes is emphasized. For GvGs most classes build highly defensive with a few odd classes going high damage, but even then they still have decent toughness.

it depends on what u mean in emphasized. 2900-3200 armor 18k+ and 25k+ health for guardian and warrior or 3300+ armor and 20k+ and 28k health for warri and guardian?

Yes u can go bunker sometiems when u need to hold some cap or banner the lord, but not for fights.

If they nerf the burst, then it’s no burst anymore, that’s why is called burst.

Black Teagan.9215:

If they nerf the burst, then it’s no burst anymore, that’s why is called burst.

This!!! Thank you, Sir

What about burst condition damage?

Yes i said it! BURST condi damge….

these days you get so much condi damage from passive/sigil/traits whatever.. some classes hit you once!! and you instant got:
5+ bleeding
3+ confusion
3+ torment
Poison
Long duration of blind..

Thats happens on start!! and your already kittened because they keep spamming this on you.

Atleast power burst is something you can see coming or can counter.. conditions is just a passive crap and often from save distance.

Condi burst is already out of control if power burst gets nerfed then every one will switch to condi and well have the pre december meta all over again…

no tks