Guild Wars 2

Before everyone jumps with ‘no one cares about PvE because it’s faceroll’ or something, let me explain myself.

At least in PvP/WvW, all weapons and skills have some sort of an use. In PvE, half the weapons available to classes, and often a lot of skills on the viable weapons are useless. For example, when was the last time anyone in PvE used offhand axe on warriors apart from to look cool, or used Churning Earth on eles in combat?

Also, there’s been a lot of changes for PvP and WvW which dragged PvE into the crossfire just because they were universal, and in the process doing a lot if damage to build diversity and usefulness of skills. E.g. The whooping 50% nerf to dancing dagger which made DD utterly useless in PvE.

So, can we have a PvE-focused balancing update for once?

They have abandoned dungeons long ago. Every balance update is with tpvp in mind only and dungeons players will just have to eat it up

^ this isn’t about dungeons, it’s about PvE in general. For example, why would you ever want to use offhand warrior axe other than to tag mobs and farm (in which case I’d just switch to a LB and F1) given that warriors have full fury uptime and 4/5 are low DPS otherwise?

Since most of their updates are about PvE, I think it’s time to strengthen the core game on PvE as well.

I think they care even less about open world pve

Most of their updates are on it….why would they not care about it?

The only reason I’m using Churning Earth less now is because the ever-present multiserver crowds evaporate mobs in fractions of a second. It’s a great skill, when combined with lightning flash.War axe 5 is also awesome, you can even dodge while channeling it… Just had to mention this, because you listed two of my favourite PvE skills.

Xae Isareth.1364:

For example, when was the last time anyone in PvE used offhand axe on warriors apart from to look cool, or used Churning Earth on eles in combat?

I always use axe in my offhand on my axe-warriors. But yes .. its mainly for style reasons
However now and then when you are surrounded by some more mobs i also like to use axe #5.

This game needs a complete scaling overhaul so we’re surrounded by a lot of mobs more often… Right now it’s at least 5 players for each trash mob and that’s rubbish.

You cannot balance just PvE in this game. PvE, WvW and PvP are linked. You cannot balance one without thinking of the other.

What you want is an OP PvE – NO

They should not be linked. They need to be separate. Let me give you an example to display why.

Confusion: it’s a mechanic which forces the target to make a decision: attack and eat damage or not attack. NPCs don’t make decisions, they aren’t alive, so this mechanic is just moot in PvE and there’s no way you can balance ur under one umbrella: it’s either going to be the strongest DoT in the game because mobs always eat the damage or one of the weakest because mibs don’t attack enough. Pick your poison.

Xae Isareth.1364:

They should not be linked. They need to be separate. Let me give you an example to display why.

Confusion: it’s a mechanic which forces the target to make a decision: attack and eat damage or not attack. NPCs don’t make decisions, they aren’t alive, so this mechanic is just moot in PvE and there’s no way you can balance ur under one umbrella: it’s either going to be the strongest DoT in the game because mobs always eat the damage or one of the weakest because mibs don’t attack enough. Pick your poison.

They are linked, you cannot balance one w/o affecting the other – A.Net has said that many times. GW1 was exactly the same. If you change one you change the other. Sure you can change a skill or two for PvP/PvE difference but the basic mechanics are the same

The only way you can have them not linked is if they are on separate servers with separate characters and that will never happen.

Having separate PVE/PVP is arguably what killed City of Heroes. There was a large culture shock between the two modes, since skills behaved nothing like between PVE and PVP. This change discouraged most people from PVP, which is one of the larger sustaining forces of an MMO.

The problem isn’t the skills. The problem is PVE doesn’t encourage their usage.

Shields, I would like to like shields more in this open world environment. There are so many nice shields.

Rouven.7409:

Shields, I would like to like shields more in this open world environment. There are so many nice shields.

Agree.

I do think changes to pvp skills should not be connected to pve skills (and iirc there are a few differences for balance purposes). But I honestly like where my characters are at in pve at the moment. (I don’t have an engi or necro though at 80)

Dusty Moon.4382:

Xae Isareth.1364:

They should not be linked. They need to be separate. Let me give you an example to display why.

Confusion: it’s a mechanic which forces the target to make a decision: attack and eat damage or not attack. NPCs don’t make decisions, they aren’t alive, so this mechanic is just moot in PvE and there’s no way you can balance ur under one umbrella: it’s either going to be the strongest DoT in the game because mobs always eat the damage or one of the weakest because mibs don’t attack enough. Pick your poison.

They are linked, you cannot balance one w/o affecting the other – A.Net has said that many times. GW1 was exactly the same. If you change one you change the other. Sure you can change a skill or two for PvP/PvE difference but the basic mechanics are the same

The only way you can have them not linked is if they are on separate servers with separate characters and that will never happen.

Then how do you balance confusion for PvE then? Currently it’s useless. How do you make it not the same thing as bleed?

I agree with this actually. On my Guardian, I have a nice shield. I typically TRY to use it when I PvE because I like the idea of shields and the look of it, but I can’t help always feeling that shield as an OH just isn’t as good as other options. It’s uses are pretty limited, even in dungeons honestly, where I see them used the most. They just aren’t really necessary, which is disappointing considering it’s a staple of heavy classes in MMOs typically.

I can’t even remember the last time I saw a Warrior use a shield.

You say “NO” to your own false assumption, but seem to have no problem with PvE suffering for the benefit of PvP. Hardly fair. And it is false because there is a simple solution: balance PvE and PvP separately. It is already implemented in some small ways, but not nearly enough.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Rouven.7409:

Shields, I would like to like shields more in this open world environment. There are so many nice shields.

Agree.

I do think changes to pvp skills should not be connected to pve skills (and iirc there are a few differences for balance purposes). But I honestly like where my characters are at in pve at the moment. (I don’t have an engi or necro though at 80)

Anet had a massive problem in GW1 when mirroring PVE skills in PVP. So many that were used in PVE became severely OP in PVP simply because in PVP everyone was capped at lvl 20 but in PVE mob levels capped at 30 (when in hard mode). This meant that skills that scaled up nicely to be usable in hard mode were far too powerful in PVP and required PVP split skills. When there are a couple thousand skills in the game (including the 2 campaigns plus expansion) it can easily snowball out of control when other skills become FOTM.

A few utilities were split for PVP but have since been reworked and the split removed. Anet does not want to go back into having PVE/PVP split skills.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Xae Isareth.1364:

They should not be linked. They need to be separate. Let me give you an example to display why.

Confusion: it’s a mechanic which forces the target to make a decision: attack and eat damage or not attack. NPCs don’t make decisions, they aren’t alive, so this mechanic is just moot in PvE and there’s no way you can balance ur under one umbrella: it’s either going to be the strongest DoT in the game because mobs always eat the damage or one of the weakest because mibs don’t attack enough. Pick your poison.

They are linked, you cannot balance one w/o affecting the other – A.Net has said that many times. GW1 was exactly the same. If you change one you change the other. Sure you can change a skill or two for PvP/PvE difference but the basic mechanics are the same

The only way you can have them not linked is if they are on separate servers with separate characters and that will never happen.

Then how do you balance confusion for PvE then? Currently it’s useless. How do you make it not the same thing as bleed?

Well, conditions are useless in PvE currently and confusion is a condition. It is an razor’s edge type of balancing. That is what A.Net is working on.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Rouven.7409:

Shields, I would like to like shields more in this open world environment. There are so many nice shields.

Agree.

I do think changes to pvp skills should not be connected to pve skills (and iirc there are a few differences for balance purposes). But I honestly like where my characters are at in pve at the moment. (I don’t have an engi or necro though at 80)

I like where they are in the sense that they have a few weapons to choose from, but then you look at stuff like dancing dagger, you start wondering why can’t I just replace it with an utility skill. Or you look at how you can’t use half your weapons without being dead weight, then you start seeing the holes.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Xae Isareth.1364:

They should not be linked. They need to be separate. Let me give you an example to display why.

Confusion: it’s a mechanic which forces the target to make a decision: attack and eat damage or not attack. NPCs don’t make decisions, they aren’t alive, so this mechanic is just moot in PvE and there’s no way you can balance ur under one umbrella: it’s either going to be the strongest DoT in the game because mobs always eat the damage or one of the weakest because mibs don’t attack enough. Pick your poison.

They are linked, you cannot balance one w/o affecting the other – A.Net has said that many times. GW1 was exactly the same. If you change one you change the other. Sure you can change a skill or two for PvP/PvE difference but the basic mechanics are the same

The only way you can have them not linked is if they are on separate servers with separate characters and that will never happen.

Then how do you balance confusion for PvE then? Currently it’s useless. How do you make it not the same thing as bleed?

Well, conditions are useless in PvE currently and confusion is a condition. It is an razor’s edge type of balancing. That is what A.Net is working on.

How would it be balanced even if conditions are useful? I politely ask you to fully read my comment. You cannot balance something which doesn’t work on a mechanical level.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Rouven.7409:

Shields, I would like to like shields more in this open world environment. There are so many nice shields.

Agree.

I do think changes to pvp skills should not be connected to pve skills (and iirc there are a few differences for balance purposes). But I honestly like where my characters are at in pve at the moment. (I don’t have an engi or necro though at 80)

I like where they are in the sense that they have a few weapons to choose from, but then you look at stuff like dancing dagger, you start wondering why can’t I just replace it with an utility skill. Or you look at how you can’t use half your weapons without being dead weight, then you start seeing the holes.

I guess my Issue with understanding is that I main ele. I use all weapon combos during a fractal, say, and swap my utilities frequently. I haven’t found too many useless options! I’m not really an optimized min/maxer though, I just do what makes me as much of an asset without outright dying (my not so high skill level often requires the utility space of mist form or arcane shield rather than fire signet, for example).

Thief I’m still working on. I don’t really understand the mechanics yet that would make me understand your point. :x

Chadramar.8156:

You say “NO” to your own false assumption, but seem to have no problem with PvE suffering for the benefit of PvP. Hardly fair. And it is false because there is a simple solution: balance PvE and PvP separately. It is already implemented in some small ways, but not nearly enough.

As already stated, YOU CANNOT. It is NOT a false assumption. That PvE and PvP are separate is a false assumption. The game was designed this way. As talked about in this article – http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/09/flameseeker-chronicles-arenanet-talks-pve-vs-pve/

“Moving on to Guild Wars 2: What sort of factors were taken into consideration as you began planning both the PvP and PvE sides of the game?

Eric Flannum: We treat both the PvE and PvP aspects of the game as being equally important. When we first sat down to plan the game, we knew that we wanted robust PvP and PvE, and we also wanted to introduce a third type of content that spanned the two with what would eventually become WvW. It’s very important to know and recognize how all of your systems will interact with and affect each other.

For example, one of the first major decisions was eliminating the concept of dedicated PvP characters from the game, deciding instead on a system where you took the same character into each of the different game types (PvP,PvE,WvW) and your character changed to suit the game type as they needed to. So in PvP all characters can be set to the same power level and have access to the set of skills we designate for PvP while still being the same character you play in PvE.

We felt like this helped tie the different parts of the game together and place an importance on the player’s identity as a specific character, which is of course an important aspect of all RPGs. This decision has had a profound effect on Guild Wars 2, and it’s a decision that we could only have made by knowing that we value PvE, PvP, and WvW equally right from the start of development."

You cannot change this without redesigning the game – plain and simple – one affects the other.

Azrael.4960:

(…)When there are a couple thousand skills in the game (including the 2 campaigns plus expansion) it can easily snowball out of control when other skills become FOTM.

A few utilities were split for PVP but have since been reworked and the split removed. Anet does not want to go back into having PVE/PVP split skills.

It also looks like as if Anet does not want to have “a couple thousand skills” anymore?

Rouven.7409:

Azrael.4960:

(…)When there are a couple thousand skills in the game (including the 2 campaigns plus expansion) it can easily snowball out of control when other skills become FOTM.

A few utilities were split for PVP but have since been reworked and the split removed. Anet does not want to go back into having PVE/PVP split skills.

I also looks like as if Anet does not want to have “a couple thousand skills” anymore?

In GW1, very few skills were used in both PvE and PvP and many more skills were useless. A.Net knew they wanted to avoid the same situation (so many games have too many skills and most of them are just wasted – Rift is that way).

@ Dusty, I hear ya, but Anet also said this?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/It-s-time-to-balance-PvP-apart-from-PvE-WvW/page/2#post1801535

So you guys know, we already split some skills. And, what’s most pertinent to the current thread, we plan to do this even more.

When we first shipped, it was awesome to have a lot of the balance be the same between PvE/WvW/PvP. But, as you guys have really started to push the game types to their limits, classes and specs that work in one areas of the game are sometimes ineffectual in others.

Due to this, we’ll have to do more splitting of skills to better balance the various areas of the game.

TL:DR – We already do this, and we’ll be using it even more in order to balance the different areas of the game effectively.

Rouven.7409:

@ Dusty, I hear ya, but Anet also said this?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/It-s-time-to-balance-PvP-apart-from-PvE-WvW/page/2#post1801535

So you guys know, we already split some skills. And, what’s most pertinent to the current thread, we plan to do this even more.

When we first shipped, it was awesome to have a lot of the balance be the same between PvE/WvW/PvP. But, as you guys have really started to push the game types to their limits, classes and specs that work in one areas of the game are sometimes ineffectual in others.

Due to this, we’ll have to do more splitting of skills to better balance the various areas of the game.

TL:DR – We already do this, and we’ll be using it even more in order to balance the different areas of the game effectively.

Splitting a few skills is different that actually changing the basic mechanics of the game and having a PvE-centric balance update. It will only cause issues in WvW (which is a hybrid PvE/PvP) and in PvP also.

I am mostly a PvE player, although I have recently been very happy playing WvW. I feel what is being asked will only kitten the game even more.

Good thing I typed for about 20 minutes only to have a forum error delete it all. Yaay.

Short summary:
- there’s already split in PvP/PvE in some things (confusion, retaliation usefulness)
- many skills / utils are designed around point capture / defense, but that’s moot in PvE
- why do PvP fixes affect PvE too (ex. Dhuumfire: cheesy in PvP, still hardly relevant in PvE due to the nature of condi dmg in PvE, but changed in PvE nonetheless)? Balancing things for one mode and having this affect other modes where it wasn’t even an issue isn’t ideal
- the upside of having a unified skillset / system is easy accessibility, but people who casually play PvP/WvW don’t really care or do indepth planning anyway and those who do it seriously will notice differences and skills / traits and act accordingly

- just because the system is in place as it is, doesn’t mean it’s optimal
- the balancing is already rather slow and leaves issues open; whether or not three dedicated balance teams would make things faster and better, the issue would be maintaining this, and seeing how things like dissolving the dungeon team and merging it with the LS team and the quality of recent updates were going, I doubt that’ll ever happen anyway

Dusty Moon.4382:

Splitting a few skills is different that actually changing the basic mechanics of the game and having a PvE-centric balance update. It will only cause issues in WvW (which is a hybrid PvE/PvP) and in PvP also.

I am mostly a PvE player, although I have recently been very happy playing WvW. I feel what is being asked will only kitten the game even more.

I personally am not asking to “kitten” other parts of the game in favour of PvE, even though the OP has brought up an example how skills got “kittened” in PvE because of those other parts.

I’ll try to stay optimistic, who knows, it might one day be one of those things that they forget to mention in the patch notes.

Anyways, they have acknowledged that the unified idea they had at the beginning doesn’t really work out, here’s to hoping that each patch will make the game more fun for all of us.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Rouven.7409:

@ Dusty, I hear ya, but Anet also said this?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/It-s-time-to-balance-PvP-apart-from-PvE-WvW/page/2#post1801535

So you guys know, we already split some skills. And, what’s most pertinent to the current thread, we plan to do this even more.

When we first shipped, it was awesome to have a lot of the balance be the same between PvE/WvW/PvP. But, as you guys have really started to push the game types to their limits, classes and specs that work in one areas of the game are sometimes ineffectual in others.

Due to this, we’ll have to do more splitting of skills to better balance the various areas of the game.

TL:DR – We already do this, and we’ll be using it even more in order to balance the different areas of the game effectively.

Splitting a few skills is different that actually changing the basic mechanics of the game and having a PvE-centric balance update. It will only cause issues in WvW (which is a hybrid PvE/PvP) and in PvP also.

I am mostly a PvE player, although I have recently been very happy playing WvW. I feel what is being asked will only kitten the game even more.

A PvE-centric balancing update isn’t changing entire mechanics. It would be things like ’let’s increase the skill coefficient for dancing dagger to 0.75 so people use it’. Changing game mechanics isn’t balance, it’s a system overhaul.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Rouven.7409:

@ Dusty, I hear ya, but Anet also said this?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/It-s-time-to-balance-PvP-apart-from-PvE-WvW/page/2#post1801535

So you guys know, we already split some skills. And, what’s most pertinent to the current thread, we plan to do this even more.

When we first shipped, it was awesome to have a lot of the balance be the same between PvE/WvW/PvP. But, as you guys have really started to push the game types to their limits, classes and specs that work in one areas of the game are sometimes ineffectual in others.

Due to this, we’ll have to do more splitting of skills to better balance the various areas of the game.

TL:DR – We already do this, and we’ll be using it even more in order to balance the different areas of the game effectively.

Splitting a few skills is different that actually changing the basic mechanics of the game and having a PvE-centric balance update. It will only cause issues in WvW (which is a hybrid PvE/PvP) and in PvP also.

I am mostly a PvE player, although I have recently been very happy playing WvW. I feel what is being asked will only kitten the game even more.

A PvE-centric balancing update isn’t changing entire mechanics. It would be things like ’let’s increase the skill coefficient for dancing dagger to 0.75 so people use it’. Changing game mechanics isn’t balance, it’s a system overhaul.

It would be since, UNLIKE GW1 which had a split between PvE and PvP.

If you just balance for PvE there would be a huge affect in WvW (unintended) and also in PvP.

You would be changing mechanics, because you are stressing one over the other, which is not the intent of this game – A.Net values ALL PARTS of the game equally, even if you don’t.

Dusty, now you contradict yourself. Or maybe it’s because of the wording.

Let’s try it this way, in the past skills have been split or not to accommodate the PvP/WvW aspect of the game.

Now split skills to accommodate the idea of making weapon types more viable overall in PvE.

I think you are too fixated on the “balance” part. There is a split already and Anet has said that it’s intentional and because they value ALL PARTS of the game they will split skills even more.

The OP is just asking to see examples of them doing it with PvE in mind.

Rouven.7409:

Dusty, now you contradict yourself. Or maybe it’s because of the wording.

Let’s try it this way, in the past skills have been split or not to accommodate the PvP/WvW aspect of the game.

Now split skills to accommodate the idea of making weapon types more viable overall in PvE.

I think you are too fixated on the “balance” part. There is a split already and Anet has said that it’s intentional and because they value ALL PARTS of the game they will split skills even more.

The OP is just asking to see examples of them doing it with PvE in mind.

I am not confused. Splitting skills like that is a bandage – they did so many in GW1, it was ridiculous. I think ‘BALANCE’ is the most important part – between all the aspects of the game. The people who want just a PvE ONLY balance don’t get or want to get that it is the same using a sledgehammer to hammer a nail. Unintended consequences will happen and then they will whine some more.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Rouven.7409:

@ Dusty, I hear ya, but Anet also said this?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/It-s-time-to-balance-PvP-apart-from-PvE-WvW/page/2#post1801535

So you guys know, we already split some skills. And, what’s most pertinent to the current thread, we plan to do this even more.

When we first shipped, it was awesome to have a lot of the balance be the same between PvE/WvW/PvP. But, as you guys have really started to push the game types to their limits, classes and specs that work in one areas of the game are sometimes ineffectual in others.

Due to this, we’ll have to do more splitting of skills to better balance the various areas of the game.

TL:DR – We already do this, and we’ll be using it even more in order to balance the different areas of the game effectively.

Splitting a few skills is different that actually changing the basic mechanics of the game and having a PvE-centric balance update. It will only cause issues in WvW (which is a hybrid PvE/PvP) and in PvP also.

I am mostly a PvE player, although I have recently been very happy playing WvW. I feel what is being asked will only kitten the game even more.

A PvE-centric balancing update isn’t changing entire mechanics. It would be things like ’let’s increase the skill coefficient for dancing dagger to 0.75 so people use it’. Changing game mechanics isn’t balance, it’s a system overhaul.

It would be since, UNLIKE GW1 which had a split between PvE and PvP.

If you just balance for PvE there would be a huge affect in WvW (unintended) and also in PvP.

You would be changing mechanics, because you are stressing one over the other, which is not the intent of this game – A.Net values ALL PARTS of the game equally, even if you don’t.

Just for PvE, like how CnD hits for 33% less in PvP. I believe the original nerf on DD was mostly so that thieves can’t just throw a knife and destroy rangers.

Player’s skills should be balanced based on high end PvP (because people can learn to get better ie. turret engi and MM are really unviable builds but “OP” at low level PvP) with considerations of WvW (Ideally skills should be split). PvE should be balanced through changes in NPC’s.

For example: you want axe oh and churning earth to be viable? Make a group of enemies that can only take damage when the others also take damage. Want to use a condi weapon? Make enemies that are immune to crit.

Sadly, the process seems to be to cater to the casual so that wherever they go they can blindly mash their keyboards and have some sort of success. Thinking is hard.

Because of that, there should be some sort of PvE endgame where there are unique dungeons/areas (GW1) with unique NPC enemies that although don’t fully nullify a certain weapon type would be more optimal using a different type (like suggesting condi weps by making enemies immune to crit). Or having a typical debuff that slowly drains your health so that you are forced to either have a designated healer giving regen or have to coordinate burst heals for each other.

This would make the ability for “balance” and for the casual to still have a chance while giving the game some much needed endgame. Also, this prevents this type of “all around balance” from negatively effecting PvP anymore than it already has.

Nobody in PvP uses axe offhand…. its an universally undesired weapon and the nerf to dancing daggers happened more than a year ago.

Just out curiosity tho, What would be some PvE balance changes you would make?

Dusty Moon.4382:

I am not confused. Splitting skills like that is a bandage – they did so many in GW1, it was ridiculous. I think ‘BALANCE’ is the most important part – between all the aspects of the game. The people who want just a PvE ONLY balance don’t get or want to get that it is the same using a sledgehammer to hammer a nail. Unintended consequences will happen and then they will whine some more.

Then you are ignoring what the game design lead himself said. Explicitly. And they are already using the sledgehammer to use your terminology.

The unintended consequences will always happen, no matter which way they go. It’s the name of the game, at least they are relatively fast with getting the bugs out.

I’m sure you have nothing to worry about short term though lol.

google.3709:

Nobody in PvP uses axe offhand…. its an universally undesired weapon and the nerf to dancing daggers happened more than a year ago.

Just out curiosity tho, What would be some PvE balance changes you would make?

Put dancing dagger’s coefficient to 0.75 for PvE.
Increase damage on axe #4 for PvE.
Axe no5 adds periodic vulnerability.
Dagger #3 on thief gives Fury (because honestly I don’t see anyone using this for power builds in PvP either, and Fury doesn’t affect conditions).

etc etc

I dont think they have to balance the skills, i think they have to balance PvE in a way that makes those skills more useful. (Husks on three headed Wurm are a great example how you could buff condis in PvE)

^in other games, I’d agree with you, but in GW2, I don’t. This is because in other games, you can slot out skills, so you can have very situational skills.

But in GW2, you can’t, so every single skill needs some sort of a general use because otherwise you end up with skills that just clog up your bar most of the time, like now.

Then you got the case of some skills which just have zero use whatsoever.

The problem is that Anet has set up this really rigid skill system, so the full weight of balancing everything perfectly falls straight on them instead of partially on players to adjust their builds, and it gives them less wiggle room for problems. (you could argue that it backfired on them)

Rouven.7409:

Shields, I would like to like shields more in this open world environment. There are so many nice shields.

Even in PvP, shields are a niche weapon for both Guardian and Warrior. The only class that actually has useful shield abilities are engineers, while the iconic shield wearing classes are left in the dark.

Rangersix.1754:

Rouven.7409:

Shields, I would like to like shields more in this open world environment. There are so many nice shields.

Even in PvP, shields are a niche weapon for both Guardian and Warrior. The only class that actually has useful shield abilities are engineers, while the iconic shield wearing classes are left in the dark.

Because all shield abilities have ridiculous CDs on warrior and guardian. It needs a complete redesign to be honest.

2x axe on warrior is pretty lame but at least it feels awesome using it because the skills all meld into each other and it feels fluid. Shields are both lame and feels awkward: what kind of an idiot just does nothing with his shield 90% of the time and then block for 3 seconds or whatever and goes ‘yep, thats enough use out of that thing, don;t wanna damage the rust on it!’.

Xae Isareth.1364:

They should not be linked. They need to be separate. Let me give you an example to display why.

Confusion: it’s a mechanic which forces the target to make a decision: attack and eat damage or not attack. NPCs don’t make decisions, they aren’t alive, so this mechanic is just moot in PvE and there’s no way you can balance ur under one umbrella: it’s either going to be the strongest DoT in the game because mobs always eat the damage or one of the weakest because mibs don’t attack enough. Pick your poison.

So?
That’s relatively easy to fix, why should mobs not be constantly using abilities? Against many Toxic Alliance mobs, probably the most well-designed PvE enemies so far, confusion is quite effective. Not deadly, but then, it isn’t in PvP and WvW since the nerfs, so that’s fair. It’s balanced between the modes.

Abilities should be linked. I should be playing Guild Wars 2. Not 3 games which happens to share a common launcher.

Frankly PvE is in a better place and should NOT be the focus of a patch right now.
WvW should be a higher priority.

Bombsaway.7198:

Frankly PvE is in a better place and should NOT be the focus of a patch right now.
WvW should be a higher priority.

Explain how.

In grouped PVE, conditions are useless, half your weapons are useless, on the usefuil weapons, you got skills which have no use, most of your traits are useless, anything but zerker gear is useless, you got completely ridiculous mechanics like FGS #4’s wall stack killing a boss in seconds flying around. I could go on.

Some of those are core system problems, but how is WvW worse?

Carighan.6758:

Xae Isareth.1364:

They should not be linked. They need to be separate. Let me give you an example to display why.

Confusion: it’s a mechanic which forces the target to make a decision: attack and eat damage or not attack. NPCs don’t make decisions, they aren’t alive, so this mechanic is just moot in PvE and there’s no way you can balance ur under one umbrella: it’s either going to be the strongest DoT in the game because mobs always eat the damage or one of the weakest because mibs don’t attack enough. Pick your poison.

So?
That’s relatively easy to fix, why should mobs not be constantly using abilities? Against many Toxic Alliance mobs, probably the most well-designed PvE enemies so far, confusion is quite effective. Not deadly, but then, it isn’t in PvP and WvW since the nerfs, so that’s fair. It’s balanced between the modes.

Abilities should be linked. I should be playing Guild Wars 2. Not 3 games which happens to share a common launcher.

If you as a player gets hit with 25 stacks of confusion, you wouldn’t use skills unless its really nessecary.
If a NPC gets hit with 25 stacks as it is, they’ll just attack and eat the damage regardless.

In your example with Toxic mobs, what makes it different to Bleed other than being a different condition then?

I think that they dont have to change the skills but to change PvE to actually make skills useful…

Artasqweroldy.7458:

I think that they dont have to change the skills but to change PvE to actually make skills useful…

This is partially true, but its far too late. They’d have to redesign most of the existing PvE content to achieve that, which equates to possibly years of work. It’s not gonna happen.

There’s also just stuff like offhand axe which have no use whatsoever. The general rule is that if you don’t see anyone using something in both PvE and PvP, then it probably is just comparatively useless for everything that can possibly happen apart from ‘this enemy can only be hurt by Whirling Axe’ or something.

Xae Isareth.1364:

In your example with Toxic mobs, what makes it different to Bleed other than being a different condition then?

Nothing, the point was that TA mobs actually use abilities continuously and hence actually suffer the damage. The secondary function of Confusion does – luckily – not work in PvE (and neither does it in PvP tbh because the damage per stack is so low after the nerfs) since it’d lead to it being affected by Defiance.

Carighan.6758:

Xae Isareth.1364:

In your example with Toxic mobs, what makes it different to Bleed other than being a different condition then?

Nothing, the point was that TA mobs actually use abilities continuously and hence actually suffer the damage. The secondary function of Confusion does – luckily – not work in PvE (and neither does it in PvP tbh because the damage per stack is so low after the nerfs) since it’d lead to it being affected by Defiance.

I don’t know about you but if I got 10+ stacks of confusion on me, I think twice before attacking because wasting HP in PvP is a one way trip to the graveyard.