Guild Wars 2

If Celestial stats are going to drop 50% of their critical damage, they should give us a free STATS CHANGE on our ASCENDED CELESTIAL gear crafted with blood before this patch.

Juclesia Elcritian.8410:

• third: Ascended Celestial has no increase in critical damage over Exotic… even though they’re removing it as a stat, we still got hosed on it.

The conversion from Crit Dam to Ferocity will fix that one.

If these speculations prove correct celestial is going to become of one of the weakest sets in the game. It is the most difficult and time consuming to craft, so this will surely aggravate a lot of the players.

Adding +1 % boon duration to each celestial piece might be a good solution, but it might be on the border line of making it too strong. 5 trinkets (the is no celestial backpiece) + 6 armor + 1 weapon = +12% boon duration = not bad. And a lot of the builds, which use celestial gear would really benefit from boon duration. Yet +12% boon duration is significantly less than the armor rune sets allow at the moment.

Divinity runes seem also to be losers in the upcoming balance batch.

how about raisind the allstat ratio by 5% to compensate for the loss?
will make celestial slightly more tanky and slightly more condition based, tho.

My Assassin weapons I take on my bunker guardian feel more heavily nerfed then my Zerker weapons on my warrior.

My Divinity runes I take on my bunker guardian / staff elem feel more heavily nerfed and they’re essentially the ‘support’ characters a.net wants to promote with this change.

My ascended Celestial gear I took on pure dps characters for heavier survival without going full PVT feels more nerfed then my full Zerker characters.

edit: I’d also like the expensive mysticForge 5/5 infusions and WvW infusions refunded to me for my soon to be junked celestial rings in various characters.

Bottom line: these changes feel like they were made with no consideration to non-Zerker stat allocations that also had crit damage %.

I can bite a huge cost to divinity runes, but if this isnt addressed I will be submitting a customer complaint about my ascended celestial gear.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Make-Ferocity-scale-like-armor-reduction/first#post3514044

Maby this would not over nerf the mixed gear people.. or celestial..
But only the full zerker people.. (what I still think is stupid..)

naphack.9346:

how about raisind the allstat ratio by 5% to compensate for the loss?
will make celestial slightly more tanky and slightly more condition based, tho.

I’d be down with that, or perhaps doing something like tacking on 1% Boon and Condition Duration per piece. That’d really give the set that ‘all-rounder’ feel.

Deniara Devious.3948:

If these speculations prove correct celestial is going to become of one of the weakest sets in the game. It is the most difficult and time consuming to craft, so this will surely aggravate a lot of the players.

Adding +1 % boon duration to each celestial piece might be a good solution, but it might be on the border line of making it too strong. 5 trinkets (the is no celestial backpiece) + 6 armor + 1 weapon = +12% boon duration = not bad. And a lot of the builds, which use celestial gear would really benefit from boon duration. Yet +12% boon duration is significantly less than the armor rune sets allow at the moment.

Divinity runes seem also to be losers in the upcoming balance batch.

there is a celestial back piece just somhow ppl dont know about it .
throw in 250vicous claws 50 ectos 1 vial of mist and philosopho stones/crystals and u get a backpiece on that u can choose stats inc. celestial. 22 to all stats 3%crit dmg

PS. If they overnerf celestial, i want a refound for my full celestial acended set inc backpiece….

Queen Seravat.4217:

ANET thanks for making us take a month or more to craft an ascended celestrial set then take it from us Way to Go!!!! gather all that crap to make this set charged the stupid stones then you come and say nope its worthless now. THANKS!!!!!! Guess we can buy more gems now huh.

This is the entire reason Anet will never get another penny from me.

I no longer feel comfortable nor have any trust in their design team.

The entire problem was stated as a zerker balance issue.

But, the set hardest hit by this was the jack of all trades set celestial with zerker seemingly loosing much less.

For those of us that bought into the whole crafting ascended armor sets I feel bad. I myself was a big fan of celestial due to it being viable for my class choice and allowing me the closest ability to change specs with only having to change gear minimally.

So after this dev speak I realized I basically wasted a month farming for a set which next patch will be useless and not viable.

I have never seen such poor design decisions from a development team as I have since I started playing this game.

I have lost all faith in this game and its development staff.

I think they will find a way not to diminish celestial gear, they probably just didn’t state all the details, will have to wait till Tuesday

i’m pretty sure the balance patch isn’t coming this tuesday…

Aveneo.2068:

Lucky.9421:

This would be the second uncompensated nerf to celestial gear in a row. Considering how long it takes to make, it would be nice if they added boon duration to make up for it.

Yeah, I’d love to see some compensation for when they simply removed Magic Find without giving anything in return.

+38 Power
+38 Precision
+38 Toughness
+38 Vitality
+38 Condition Damage
+38 Ferocity
+38 Healing Power
+1% Boon Duration

That would be a nice setup methinks!

Add Condition Duration to that list and now we’re ALMOST getting back to Celestial being worth the investment… And both Condition and Boon durations should be a bit longer. 2% – 3% per piece perhaps – that would get you 12% – 18% for a full set of armor. Reasonable, but not overwhelming. 1% over six pieces is barely worth mentioning.

If they increase the Celestial ration from 5/8 to 3/4, that would help mitigate the loss. Or, add in Boon Duration and Condition Duration.

Thousands of guild wars players invested a lot of time and very much gold to get ascended celestial jewelry, ascended celestial weapons and ascended celestial armor.

I hope that ANET will be mindful about that.

…

Holden.9273:

Guys lets just calm down:

- One of devs on live stream said that amount of ferocity in celestial armor will equal to other stats, right?
- They also said that reduction in damage for maxed out full DPS builds will be 10%, right?

So logically they must increase the stat ratio on celestial in order to have 10% not 17%

Remember when they buffed the Engineer’s turrets but forgot to also buff the throwable versions of the turret skills?

This thread is to make sure THAT doesn’t happen again. I have faith in ArenaNet’s ability to balance stuff out, but I want to make sure they don’t overlook things.

They could also fix it so that some pieces get slightly higher stats so the overall total remains the same as it is now (meaning they apply just the normal critical damage nerf and not the additional one that occurs compared to non-celestial gear). Boosting all stats by +1 would be overcompensation for the nerf, so if they want to avoid that, they could omit buffing some items (say the accesories get +1 but the rings don’t).

It’s a minor thing in the grand scheme of things, but it does matter.

In fact, it’s mostly a sign of why implementing super-expensive Ascended gear wasn’t a good idea. It can make a huge investment worthless in a single patch. But that is another discussion altogether…

As someone who just got an ascended celestial staff and full celestial gear, including the Triforge Pendant for my hybrid blackout mesmer, this is quite aggravating…

Glad I never invested in any celestial gear….
Scales power so horribly.
but that sux
i’m sure it will be fine

Surely the way to make celestial better.
Because if we are honest it should be the best gear set if you aren’t focusing one stat.
The time gate on it and everything about it screams best in slot.

So surely it should have all stats on it.
And by this I mean everything.

Boon duration, Condi duration, Skill cooldown,
If you can get it as a trait it should be on celestial gear.

That’s my opinion of it. This way it will still be more viable to go down the single stat route. but if you are on celestial you can swap traits or build to make content more enjoyable.

Also this change would mean that although the new meta might be Celestial instead of zerker, they could make content hard with more thought into mechanics rather than lets just do huge dps. and hope the boss dies in 30s before he lands his first hit.

I’m sure this change will also effect divinity runes/traveler runes, which will now add a whopping 10 ferocity. : /

dont worry everybody we will get some LS to combat those blues >.<

Ok, so this got merged so at least someone from ArenaNet saw it. That’s a good thing right?

My response to another thread about this:

After the change Celestial isn’t worth it as a distribution stat and it will only be for niched cases if they don’t do something to it.

Here is the math:

Post patch (full Celestial vs full Berserker/critical damage)
Celestial => 468 Furocity/New Crit Dmg Stat
Berserker => 745 Furocity

Celestial is 60-64% compared to any critical damage stat set like Berserker or Valk.

Lets assume 12 Furocity = 1% critical dmg (it doesn’t really matter what the conversion rate is)

Celestial => 39% Crit Dmg
Berserker => 62% Crit Dmg

==
Pre Patch (Currently – full Celestial vs full Berserker/critical damage)

Celestial => 62%
Berserker => 71%

As you can see the difference for the proposed changes are HUGE compared to what they are now. This will have a significant impact and unless ArenaNet adds something to the Celestial Stat set. In fact some people use like say Chest piece or something to gain extra critical damage. Post patch with the proposed changes you will not have this extra critical damage since it is based on Furocity now.

It’s kinda funny to see how they wanted to reduce the DPS of the zerker meta, yet not zerkers, but celestials get the short end of the stick. Hopefully they have something in mind to make up for it.

This is a terrible thing for light classes like the elementalist, where players have invested huge amount of time and gold crafting ascended celestial armors will be punished by a 10% or more nerf on their celestial trinkets and armor.

There will certainly be nothing worth calling “celestial” on those items anymore and elementalists will once again be the one who will suffer the most from the critical nerf, as they will have to drop the survival of celestial for berserker just to keep the same damage as before (proportionally to other players).

I keep seeing everyone mash Armor + Trinkets + Weapons together … but the weapons/trinkets are just as easy to obtain as the berserker. The armor, on the other hand, is significantly harder to obtain and actually granted MORE crit damage than berserker.

Celestial: ( Exotic Armor | Ascended )

• Power: 140 | 147
• Precision: 140 | 147
• Toughness: 140 | 147
• Vitality: 140 | 147
• Condition Damage: 140 | 147
• Healing Power: 140 | 147
• Crit Damage: 19% | 19%

Berserker: ( Exotic Armor | Ascended )

• Power: 315 | 329
• Precision: 224 | 235
• Crit Damage: 16% | 17%

My concern is the month I invested into creating my account bound Celestial armor set (since you can only create one freaking charged crystal a day). Is this now going to be inferior to Berserker in Ferocity as well?!?

Taldren.7523:

I keep seeing everyone mash Armor + Trinkets + Weapons together … but the weapons/trinkets are just as easy to obtain as the berserker. The armor, on the other hand, is significantly harder to obtain and actually granted MORE crit damage than berserker.

Celestial: ( Exotic Armor | Ascended )

• Power: 140 | 147
• Precision: 140 | 147
• Toughness: 140 | 147
• Vitality: 140 | 147
• Condition Damage: 140 | 147
• Healing Power: 140 | 147
• Crit Damage: 19% | 19%

Berserker: ( Exotic Armor | Ascended )

• Power: 315 | 329
• Precision: 224 | 235
• Crit Damage: 16% | 17%

My concern is the month I invested into creating my account bound Celestial armor set (since you can only create one freaking charged crystal a day). Is this now going to be inferior to Berserker in Ferocity as well?!?

I think the point is that everything will be hit hard. Trinkets maybe less so for various reasons. But for Armors and weapons will lose a bunch of crit dmg

Right now Celestial Armor and Weapons either give equal or more Crit dmg compared to stat sets like Berserker. Post patch Celestial will be hands down worse than Berserker.

Armor Only
—————————

Celestial: 146 new crit dmg
Berserker: 235 new crit dmg

==
Celestial Old: 19% crit dmg
Berserker Old: 17% crit dmg
==
Assume 12 Furocity = 1%

Celestial => 12% crit dmg
Berserker => 19% crit dmg

Assume 16 Furocity = 1%

Celestial => 9% crit dmg
Berserker => 14% crit dmg

CuRtoKy.8576:

I think the point is that everything will be hit hard. Trinkets maybe less so for various reasons. But for Armors and weapons will lose a bunch of crit dmg

Right now Celestial Armor and Weapons either give equal or more Crit dmg compared to stat sets like Berserker. Post patch Celestial will be hands down worse than Berserker.

Armor Only
—————————

Celestial: 146 new crit dmg
Berserker: 235 new crit dmg

==
Celestial Old: 19% crit dmg
Berserker Old: 17% crit dmg
==
Assume 12 Furocity = 1%

Celestial => 12% crit dmg
Berserker => 19% crit dmg

Assume 16 Furocity = 1%

Celestial => 9% crit dmg
Berserker => 14% crit dmg

That’s under the assumption that they maintain the pattern of Celestial gear of all stats being equal. There is nothing from stopping them from putting more Ferocity on Celestial armor to maintain its only edge over Berserker.

If they just want to reduce it by 10% as they claim then …

Celestial ARMOR currently grants 19% which if reduced 10% reduces it to 17%.
If 12 = 1% that would be 204 Ferocity.
If 16 = 1% that would be 272 Ferocity.

Berserker ARMOR currently grants 16% and reduced by 10% that would be 14%
If 12 = 1% that would be 168 Ferocity.
If 16 = 1% that would be 224 Ferocity.

Taldren.7523:

That’s under the assumption that they maintain the pattern of Celestial gear of all stats being equal. There is nothing from stopping them from putting more Ferocity on Celestial armor to maintain its only edge over Berserker.

If they just want to reduce it by 10% as they claim then …

Celestial ARMOR currently grants 19% which if reduced 10% reduces it to 17%.
If 12 = 1% that would be 204 Ferocity.
If 16 = 1% that would be 272 Ferocity.

Berserker ARMOR currently grants 16% and reduced by 10% that would be 14%
If 12 = 1% that would be 168 Ferocity.
If 16 = 1% that would be 224 Ferocity.

Pending changes. They said yesterday on stream that the new critical damage stat will be a minor stat for non-celestial stat sets. So say ascended berserker chest is 106 power and 76 precision. The new critical damage stat for this piece would be 76 ferocity instead of 5% critical damage it currently has. For Celestial it is equal to one of the stats. So for chest piece, currently ascended Celestial is 47×6 stats. Post patch it will just be 47×7 (ferocity now being a stat) instead of 47×6 + 6% critical damage.

10% reduction refers to if you use full berserker (zerk everything). Then overall your damage is reduced by 10% post patch. How individual pieces will differ post and pre patch will vary.

They could do say 47×6 + 90 Ferocity but that will be kind of odd. The best bet is for them to add something on top say +% boon duration, +% condi duration, or -% condi duration. Another way is for them to increase Celestial to say 50×7 post patch to compensate.

Either way without any word or information it seems like Celestial will feel nerfed post patch if Ferocity on Celestial is equal to all the other stats.

It’s good to see everyone making such good use of their Jump To Conclusions mats. That is the game everyone here is playing, right?

Well everyone knows that it isn’t finalized yet. What we are trying to get as is if there aren’t any changes it seems like Celestial gear will be bad post patch. This is the place to discuss what we think is good or isn’t so yeah not sure what that was all about.

This celestial issue really puzzles me, basically we have three scenarios:

1. Insane Nerf scenario: +147 to all stats – this is making armor unusable, i really doubt it will happen.

2. Huge Buff scenario: + 235 to all stats – this is + 88 points more per attribute, this seems to much.

3. Something in between like + 200 to all stats + Boon & Condition duration. To be honest i really doubt they would add this attributes, there is no Givers Armor in the game and ascended version of Dire doesn’t exist.

I’m kinda sure that number 1 will not happen, it would mean that they just forgot about celestial. Number 2 – secondary attribute armor would be probably too strong. Number 3 is most probable, the question is how much + all we will get.

Flat crit damage will/should still exist in some form (look at crit chance, powered by precision but you also see sigils granting a flat bonus), so just change that MF stat that was taken away to a small (1-3%) crit value to compensate the shift to ferocity.

Crit dmg should be a major(ich) stat for celestial. Anything less than the current state of celestial would be disastrous as the set have VERY few uses already. Pretty much no one uses it in PvE and it couldn’t possibly be perceived as OP there. Why ruin it for WvW?

The fact that it has been timegated and that my recently crafted ascended armor & weapons (yeah, i have 3 celestial asc staffs for WvW) costed a fair bit of money pretty much makes this make or break with new games coming out. I have no interest in farming more money to replace a set that might be nerfed due to sheer incompetence.

Please prove me wrong A-net, ty.

the lack of communicatin on this is totally crazy

ANET REALLY:

1) ascended light armors cost DOUBLE an heavy
2) elementalist mostly use celestial
3) people who made celestial ascended spent lot on runes and armor and you are nerfing BOTH?

Is this the CDI? pretend to read and then do anyway whjatever you want like ascended armors? like crit nerf?

Isn t this all farce since whatever people says you still go on with your nerfs?

And good job for leaving untouched the heavy only meta in pve…..while pushing condition meta www

A change that only makes thing worse with 0 benefit.

First step to increase the viability of support/control archetypes. I completely agree with that change.

The same happened when the magic find was removed from the game. If you look in my post history you will find out that I was one of the guys that demanded a stat change option back then for celestial items as well. By that time, I had already bought several ascended trinkets because they were in my opinion the best option if you wanted magic find gear (I main an elementalist). Without magic find I would have bought beserker stats.

As you very well know, stat change was never introduced for celestial gear, so I basically got the shaft. I have never touched celestial ever since and changes like this make me remember why. Always remember the old saying:

Shame on you if you fool me once
Shame on ME if you fool me twice

Don’t get fooled twice guys. Celestial is inherently a lot more prone to nerfs, because it contains all stats. It doesn’t matter which stat gets nerfed – with all stats gear you are always affected. Let’s assume the nerf condition damage next month – celestial gets the shaft, healing scaling reduced? celestial gets the shaft… well you get the picture.

Well, at least you now got some exotics/ascended items to salvage to get you started on the next dark matter grind for some new ascended items…

ThiBash.5634:

They could also fix it so that some pieces get slightly higher stats so the overall total remains the same as it is now (meaning they apply just the normal critical damage nerf and not the additional one that occurs compared to non-celestial gear).

To be honest, celestial currently has more +crit damage then it should have, compared to it’s other stats. Just like how trinkets have a bit too much, and armor not enough. But Ferocity as stat will be much easier to tweak on gear then the current crit damage.

I think they’ll not be forgetting Celestial or let it become worthless, even if it takes a couple of iterations for them to properly tweak it. Do not salvage your celestial gear!

frans.8092:

ThiBash.5634:

They could also fix it so that some pieces get slightly higher stats so the overall total remains the same as it is now (meaning they apply just the normal critical damage nerf and not the additional one that occurs compared to non-celestial gear).

To be honest, celestial currently has more +crit damage then it should have, compared to it’s other stats. Just like how trinkets have a bit too much, and armor not enough. But Ferocity as stat will be much easier to tweak on gear then the current crit damage.

I think they’ll not be forgetting Celestial or let it become worthless, even if it takes a couple of iterations for them to properly tweak it. Do not salvage your celestial gear!

Yeah, it is indeed interesting how celestial armor/weapons have the same or even more critical damage than berserker (and a lot more than celestial trinkets for that matter). They have obviously realized how “popular” the trinkets were after the magic find nerf and increased the critical damage to a level where celestial armor or weapons could become viable options for certain builds/classes. I think they chose to increase critical damage because it was the “odd” stat, that did not fall into the normal stat numbers (so they could increase it without breaking the otherwise clean stats of celestial).

Anyway: They are balancing around berzerker gear, so don’t expect celestial to come out alive.

Celestial should NEVER had as much critical damage as it stands, it made no sense. But if Celestial gear becomes too weak once this issue is fixed, Anet should increase how much stats you get with them by giving you more of all of them, not by giving you a lot of Ferocity only.

The reason celestial had so much critical damage was to make it worth using over other gear IF you stacked enough boons and critical stats. If it’s nerfed too much it’ll not even be useful in those circumstances, essentially making it useful.

Gulesave.5073:

It’s good to see everyone making such good use of their Jump To Conclusions mats. That is the game everyone here is playing, right?

No, I’m playing the ‘ANET-please-do-not-forget-celestial-in-your-changes-the-same-way-you-forgot-throwing-versions-of-turret-skills-when-you-buffed-turrets’ game.

ThiBash.5634:

The reason celestial had so much critical damage was to make it worth using over other gear IF you stacked enough boons and critical stats. If it’s nerfed too much it’ll not even be useful in those circumstances, essentially making it useful.

That’s the old Celestial which was a Critical Damage major stat with a little of all the other stats minor. The new Celestial will be what is was meant to be : a set that gives you every stat in equal amounts.

stof.9341:

ThiBash.5634:

The reason celestial had so much critical damage was to make it worth using over other gear IF you stacked enough boons and critical stats. If it’s nerfed too much it’ll not even be useful in those circumstances, essentially making it useful.

That’s the old Celestial which was a Critical Damage major stat with a little of all the other stats minor. The new Celestial will be what is was meant to be : a set that gives you every stat in equal amounts.

Celestial was what it was meant to be, now it is being changed to something that it was never meant to be. That is … Worthless … and with the largest investment of any armor in the game to boot. GG ANet.

If celestial gear doesnt get the adequate amount of ferocity id like to file a refund:

2 celestial earrigns
1 celestial staff
2 celestial armor pieces (crafted 1 week ago gg anet)

oh wait thats just my mesmer

5/6 celestial trinkets
2 celestial weapons
2 celestial daggers
…
..
..

and so on.

hope anet combensates, I dont have the nerv to farm all those stuff again, especially the ascended armor. Im close to quitting anyway, so meh whatever..

stof.9341:

ThiBash.5634:

The reason celestial had so much critical damage was to make it worth using over other gear IF you stacked enough boons and critical stats. If it’s nerfed too much it’ll not even be useful in those circumstances, essentially making it useful.

That’s the old Celestial which was a Critical Damage major stat with a little of all the other stats minor. The new Celestial will be what is was meant to be : a set that gives you every stat in equal amounts.

Thing is, they would need to increase the total stats in order to make celestial a viable option again – from a stat ratio of 5/8 to about 6/8 (you can find the math in this thread). They are not going to do that because of power creep and stuff, so the celestial owners will get the shaft. Do you really think they are going to take care of the few celestial owners when they are about to nerf berzerker which is used at least 20 times more often? That’s like worrying about a broken light in the interior of your car while the entire car is on fire.

stof.9341:

Celestial should NEVER had as much critical damage as it stands, it made no sense. But if Celestial gear becomes too weak once this issue is fixed, Anet should increase how much stats you get with them by giving you more of all of them, not by giving you a lot of Ferocity only.

It was exactly supposed to have that much critical damage. With the 5/8ths Power and Percision the extra critical damage was the only way it could compete with other armors since defensive stats in Guild Wars 2 provide far less return than offensive ones.

Put another way, the 5/8th toughness, vitality, healing power in no way made up for the missing 3/8 power and precision in overall performance without the higher critical damage (which ended up being only 3% overall more than berserker).

Celestial gear came out with one important aspect: efficient critical damage on it. I’m not saying that it was right or not, but it came out with this feature.
If they drastically reduce this critical damage, they completely change celestial main stat and every build with celestials. So, we want ATLEAST A REFUND TO OUR ASCENDED CELESTIAL if they do that

Xunleashed.5271:

Celestial gear came out with one important aspect: efficient critical damage on it. I’m not saying that it was right or not, but it came out with this feature.
If they drastically reduce this critical damage, they completely change celestial main stat and every build with celestials. So, we want ATLEAST A REFUND TO OUR ASCENDED CELESTIAL if they do that

pfft, I spent 30 days making Charged Crystals for my Exotic Celestial armor for a single character. That is more time investment than anything ascended in the game other than Ascended Celestial armor. So if any refund is to be given I expect it too Mr.

Heh i think I’m gonna end my adventure with gw2 if this ‘balance of celestial armor’ will make it unusable and there will be no refund , after one year of playing i don’t want to grind anymore.

Funny thing – I’ve made my four ascended celestial pieces 3 days ago… 1 one day before the livestream….