Guild Wars 2

Sarrs.4831:

LordByron.8369:

1) unnneded nerf to critical damage
2) celestial being a victim of war of a nerf aimed at DPS equip while being amongst lowest dps equip
3) ascended it is one of the issue.. the game was designed with 0 grind in mind and that is the reason why stats are tied to equip….differently from other games where you get the top Stats and you use it with whatever build you use.
4) THE SKINS…..have a cost….
5) people that still fuel the wrong idea that crit damage on celestial is a mistake…
It was instead a planned balancing from developers simply using math…. (there was a discussion when was released that explained how despite the sum of the stats being higher, the result was slightly lower than mixing)
6) no reason was given to convert it AS it is….unless you or anyone other proves me that its OP (people already proven the opposite in many threads), or will be OP after conversion you don t have really any point.
(to be fair should be both converted as it is AND slightly buffed on power to avoid an unintended nerf)

1. The nerf is needed. They explicitly said that crit damage is exceedingly high compared to sPvP.

That’s not their reason, don’t conflate the issue. They’ve said sPvP will not be taking a hit due to its unusually low amount of crit damage to begin with. Not the other way around.

So….how about adding Boon Duration and Condition Duration to the stats
if say overall Celestial/Divinity combo loses about 10-20% critical damage

then how about adding those 2 stats to make it a true “All-stat” gear
Chest would be 3% Condition Duration and Boon Duration
Legs 2%
Helm 2%
Boots 1%
Gloves 1%
Shoulders 1%

that would still make the gear so-so and therefore not getting buffed or nerfed

for the divinity/travelers you could just remove the crit damage and add Condition Duration and Boon Duration 2% per.

so 10% if you have the entire set, but 2 runes would give you 15%? I think I prefer stats increase more.

But I would prefer a stat reset even more.

I didn’t get celestial primarily for the crit damage, so I support + boon duration added as part of the balancing process. Celestial is a popular choice for guardian and elementalist (not sure about others), 2 professions in which boon duration is well, a significant boon to the profession…yeah. I would even further support + boon duration as a primary stat for celestial. It seems like a change that fits the flavor of celestial.

The primary problem you have is that many people myself included used the gem shop along with a ton of in game time to craft ascended celestial sets.

As the dev above has stated celestial is getting nerfed the hardest in a attempt to change the Zerker meta. That is unacceptable in my opinion.

My only suggestion would be to allow for those with ascended sets to have the ability for a one time reroll to another stat set.

You as a company have the freedom to change whatever you want. I understand that. But, I also have the freedom to no longer purchase gems if I begin to feel uncomfortable and start having to worry what I bought today might not be what I end up with tomorrow.

Zatoichi.1049:

I didn’t get celestial primarily for the crit damage, so I support + boon duration added as part of the balancing process. Celestial is a popular choice for guardian and elementalist (not sure about others), 2 professions in which boon duration is well, a significant boon to the profession…yeah. I would even further support + boon duration as a primary stat for celestial. It seems like a change that fits the flavor of celestial.

Hey I play a Guardian. But I got enough boon duration. 10% boon duration is just too small to exchange for the drastically lowered crit dam. Hence I prefer stat increase if I have to choose. But even then Celestial will be trash, so I prefer reroll even for my Guardian.

The only profession I can see using the new Celestial is elementalist (which I also have one with lvl 80).

Azreell.1568:

The primary problem you have is that many people myself included used the gem shop along with a ton of in game time to craft ascended celestial sets.

As the dev above has stated celestial is getting nerfed the hardest in a attempt to change the Zerker meta. That is unacceptable in my opinion.

My only suggestion would be to allow for those with ascended sets to have the ability for a one time reroll to another stat set.

You as a company have the freedom to change whatever you want. I understand that. But, I also have the freedom to no longer purchase gems if I begin to feel uncomfortable and start having to worry what I bought today might not be what I end up with tomorrow.

Agreed 100%

The problem is though if the build meta changed, you got the same problem. For example, I spend money to get conditional gear for my condition dam build. Then Anet nerf the build so I no longer want to play it. I am screwed again.

This was not a problem with exotic gears as they are easy to obtain. Ascended gear requires too much grind. The really solution is to have a inexpensive way for us to reroll Ascended stats via Mystic forge.

bigmonto.4215:

Azreell.1568:

The primary problem you have is that many people myself included used the gem shop along with a ton of in game time to craft ascended celestial sets.

As the dev above has stated celestial is getting nerfed the hardest in a attempt to change the Zerker meta. That is unacceptable in my opinion.

My only suggestion would be to allow for those with ascended sets to have the ability for a one time reroll to another stat set.

You as a company have the freedom to change whatever you want. I understand that. But, I also have the freedom to no longer purchase gems if I begin to feel uncomfortable and start having to worry what I bought today might not be what I end up with tomorrow.

Agreed 100%

The problem is though if the build meta changed, you got the same problem. For example, I spend money to get conditional gear for my condition dam build. Then Anet nerf the build so I no longer want to play it. I am screwed again.

This was not a problem with exotic gears as they are easy to obtain. Ascended gear requires too much grind. The really solution is to have a inexpensive way for us to reroll Ascended stats via Mystic forge.

I agree there needs to be a way to switch ascended stats at this current stage in the game.

Due to the Gem shop and the ability(or necessity by design) to purchase items required to craft this gear any changes by Anet especially drastic ones such as this zerk nerf will cause people to be upset.

These upset people are the ones who would normally spend rl money in the gem shop.

I myself upon hearing the indirect nerf of celestial due to the coming changes stopped spending anything in the Gem Shop until I see how Anet handles this As I don’t feel comfortable with the current position Anet has taken.

This is one of the pitfalls of F2P gem shop games.

GW2 is not F2P. I see this tossed around and it’s not accurate. GW2 is B2P.

However they seem to be using the gem shop to make expansions F2P. So in some regards it is both models. I would have preferred a pure B2P as was GW1, including purchasable expansions.

juno.1840:

GW2 is not F2P. I see this tossed around and it’s not accurate. GW2 is B2P.

However they seem to be using the gem shop to make expansions F2P. So in some regards it is both models. I would have preferred a pure B2P as was GW1, including purchasable expansions.

I am not suggesting ascended stat-switch to be free. It should cost a a few gold worth of mats per piece. Anet can even add Mystic Forge Stone as part of the mats, which requires us to use gems. The cost adds up for the entire set, but it is not nearly as debilitating as if you were to craft the entire ascended set. And for those that switch build often, it is still worth it to craft 2 or more ascended sets.

bigmonto.4215:

juno.1840:

GW2 is not F2P. I see this tossed around and it’s not accurate. GW2 is B2P.

However they seem to be using the gem shop to make expansions F2P. So in some regards it is both models. I would have preferred a pure B2P as was GW1, including purchasable expansions.

I am not suggesting ascended stat-switch to be free. It should cost a a few gold worth of mats per piece. Anet can even add Mystic Forge Stone as part of the mats, which requires us to use gems. The cost adds up for the entire set, but it is not nearly as debilitating as if you were to craft the entire ascended set. And for those that switch build often, it is still worth it to craft 2 or more ascended sets.

A solution which I think has some merit would be make Ascended have the ability to switch sets BUT make it have a 1 week cool down. Also , You must have the recipe for the stat you want to switch to.

This change would accomplish a few things:

1)Legendary would still be top tier but this would give Ascended some worth which it lacks at the moment beyond fractals.

2)Game Balance Changes: Due to the gem shop and the time it takes via gating to craft this armor people invest a substantial amount of time and or money to make Ascended. This then becomes problematic for the development team to make changes to the game without upsetting players who used RL money and substantial time to craft said sets. This would solve that problem and build confidence in Anet which generally would yield them more gem shop sales.

3)Making the game a bit more fun instead of just grinding non stop for another set. Let’s face it – I despise DR in this game. It’s a dated concept and should be removed all together. Especially in a game this grindy. But, This change would make the mat grind bearable as you are crafting something that has long term use.

This change I think would move the game in a very good direction.

Nikkinella.8254:

Are you kidding? What it’s SUPPOSED to be is irrelevant. We aren’t mind readers.

You know, if the average player really didn’t grasp the intent behind Celestial on first glance, that just might explain why people are so angry about this change.

On the other hand, it’s a real letdown in regards to people’s intelligence. I mean, how can anyone not have noticed that the +critdamage was comparatively too high for the intent of the gear (or not notice the intent)?!

Carighan.6758:

Nikkinella.8254:

Are you kidding? What it’s SUPPOSED to be is irrelevant. We aren’t mind readers.

You know, if the average player really didn’t grasp the intent behind Celestial on first glance, that just might explain why people are so angry about this change.

On the other hand, it’s a real letdown in regards to people’s intelligence. I mean, how can anyone not have noticed that the +critdamage was comparatively too high for the intent of the gear (or not notice the intent)?!

That was the most egotistical thing I have heard. Do you like to commenting on things after the fact, just so you can feel better about yourself?

So enlighten us, what was exactly the original intent for Celestial gear? It is a set that simply have all the same number on stats so that it looks pretty? Is it a set that is designed only for profession that can utilize every stats? Or is it a set is that meant to be mixed and matched with other set to introduce balance?

If its intent was only for profession that can utilize every stats, then truly only elementalist can use it. And you are right the crit dam should be lowered. But in this case, no other profession will bother. Even as a Guardian, I won’t have choose celestials with the lower crit dam, since I don’t make use of the conditional dam.

If its intent was to be mixed and matched with other set. Celestial would opens up a lot more possibilities for builds and gear options for every professions. And the crit dam is justified as a supplement for the lower power based on the current power meta.

Whether you agree or not, keep in mind, Anet purposely choose a higher-than-normal crit dam. Anet could have chosen a much lower number, but they didn’t. They have a lot of opportunity to patch it or change it, but they didn’t. Unless you think Anet devs are idiots, I can safely say Celetrials with higher-than-normal crit dam was the original design intent.

With that said even Anet dev did not anticipate the design direction of moving away from the power based pve meta, which spark the unintended nerf of celestial sets.

Let me put it in another word: Celetrial’s crit dam will be nerf due to an unintended side affect of move away from the power based pve meta, NOT because it was a MISTAKE to have a higher-than-normal crit dam.

bigmonto.4215:

Whether you agree or not, keep in mind, Anet purposely choose a higher-than-normal crit dam. Anet could have chosen a much lower number, but they didn’t. They have a lot of opportunity to patch it or change it, but they didn’t. Unless you think Anet devs are idiots, I can safely say Celetrials with higher-than-normal crit dam was the original design intent.

Except, they are choosing to take advantage of that opportunity now. So why are you complaining about it?

Carighan.6758:

Nikkinella.8254:

Are you kidding? What it’s SUPPOSED to be is irrelevant. We aren’t mind readers.

You know, if the average player really didn’t grasp the intent behind Celestial on first glance, that just might explain why people are so angry about this change.

On the other hand, it’s a real letdown in regards to people’s intelligence. I mean, how can anyone not have noticed that the +critdamage was comparatively too high for the intent of the gear (or not notice the intent)?!

The assumed intent for the higher crit damage was to make the set viable in the current game play model in which DPS at the end of the day is all that matters but the set gives the illusion that said player can do a bit more then dps when wanted.

Celestial had specific uses for certain classes and specs. The set was never viewed as an issue by the player base or development team.

As stated by the devs in this thread – The set due to it’s design and itemization is getting effected far worse then the set in question which is zerker.

Your response is very arrogant and you have no facts to back up any of your conjecture.

The bottom line is a set is indirectly getting nerfed to the point of being broken while the set in questions is receiving less of a nerf.

No matter how you view that – It is a problematic and needs a viable solution one way or another. Especially since some people have spent RL money in the gem shop to craft ascended versions of this gear.

It’s late here so I don’t really feel like doing the numbers, but I wonder how much damage would be regained by changing the 5/8 ratio to 6/8. It’s been said in the thread that the lack of Power on Celestial gear is a big component of its low damage, so the boosts to Power, Precision and Condi Damage could make up for the loss.

It will still totally change the base functionality of an item requiring months of grinding…

That is total lack of consideration of players….i don t think we should be used as a test server for PvP nor for china launch.

I don t care if they need a new set in PvP, they can change stats at will and don t have to grind months.

Still no clear answer to the issue aside they are planning something wrong.
It doesn t take a Genius to understand that most stats gets lost in almost any build.

If you cast a condition spell your crit damage, power and ferocity is useless, if you cast a power spell condition is useless…etc etc etc

I could accept a nerf if wupwup was stronger than other sets but since it got already short AND its being totally changed its a bad idea.

Black Box.9312:

bigmonto.4215:

Whether you agree or not, keep in mind, Anet purposely choose a higher-than-normal crit dam. Anet could have chosen a much lower number, but they didn’t. They have a lot of opportunity to patch it or change it, but they didn’t. Unless you think Anet devs are idiots, I can safely say Celetrials with higher-than-normal crit dam was the original design intent.

Except, they are choosing to take advantage of that opportunity now. So why are you complaining about it?

How exactly did you deduce that I was complaining about anything from my post? I am merely point out that celestial with higher and normal crit dam was the original intent of the dev and that it was not the players that misunderstood the purpose or the intention of the gear.

In fact it shouldn’t be players responsibility to determine dev’s intend period. We grind, or spent real money on a piece of gear for certain purpose. Now the functionality of that gear is completely change through no fault of our own. We want Anet to be aware of that, and would like a opportunity to reselect the stats so our effort does not go to waste.

And Anet, don’t you want people to move away from crit dam based pve meta? Then let us reselect the stats to a different combination. Perhaps more people would move away from the crit dam stats if you give us a way to do so easily, instead of asking us to regrind every piece of gear.

bigmonto.4215:

Black Box.9312:

bigmonto.4215:

Whether you agree or not, keep in mind, Anet purposely choose a higher-than-normal crit dam. Anet could have chosen a much lower number, but they didn’t. They have a lot of opportunity to patch it or change it, but they didn’t. Unless you think Anet devs are idiots, I can safely say Celetrials with higher-than-normal crit dam was the original design intent.

Except, they are choosing to take advantage of that opportunity now. So why are you complaining about it?

How exactly did you deduce that I was complaining about anything from my post? I am merely point out that celestial with higher and normal crit dam was the original intent of the dev and that it was not the players that misunderstood the purpose or the intention of the gear.

In fact it shouldn’t be players responsibility to determine dev’s intend period. We grind, or spent real money on a piece of gear for certain purpose. Now the functionality of that gear is completely change through no fault of our own. We want Anet to be aware of that, and would like a opportunity to reselect the stats so our effort does not go to waste.

And Anet, don’t you want people to move away from crit dam based pve meta? Then let us reselect the stats to a different combination. Perhaps more people would move away from the crit dam stats if you give us a way to do so easily, instead of asking us to regrind every piece of gear.

Forgive me if I’d typed that out as if I was targeting you specifically, as I meant it more in a general sense. But my point was that regardless of whether or not it was originally intentional for celestial to have higher crit damage, the developers have clearly made intentions to change that, so any sort of argument about whether or not celestial was INTENDED by the devs to have higher crit dmg is irrelevant.

Black Box.9312:

Forgive me if I’d typed that out as if I was targeting you specifically, as I meant it more in a general sense. But my point was that regardless of whether or not it was originally intentional for celestial to have higher crit damage, the developers have clearly made intentions to change that, so any sort of argument about whether or not celestial was INTENDED by the devs to have higher crit dmg is irrelevant.

100% agreed. This is why Carighan.6758’s original comment was pointless and offensive.

I don’t believe most of us are complaining about the changes in celestial gear. Most of all we just want the opportunity to reselect the stats so our effort in crafting the set is not wasted. I believe the same goes for any crit dam gears.

This is the same situation as the Flamekissed Light Armor Skin. When the devs change the looks of it, it offered a refund to the players who does not like the new look. i don’t see how the stats change would be any different.

Hey Anet are you going to let me change my full ascended celestial set to what I want after you nerf it?

Cause if you don’t that would be messed up. I spent a lot of gold and time into making it. I don’t want extra power or stats I want crit damage. At least give me the option to change the gear into something i want and not completely waste all the time i spent getting it.

I use Dire armor, Rabid weapons with Celestial trinkets and i really like to have bonus stats without losing to much of my Dire gear but it seems like if they are gonna nerf Celestial to the ground im better off with full Dire gear but going full condi is boring : /

The issue is if they even boost other stats, people who crafted their equipment already is probably stuck with a set that doesn t work with their build….

That is why the only 2 fair solutions are:

1) converting stats as they are (mostly becaus ethere is no reason to do differently) that means giving wupwup same ferocity as zojjia.

2) if that is not gonna happen (i still believe its just lack of consideration of players….) at least offer a 1 time stat change to any celestial piece.
(i d go full knight/beigarth at that point even if they boost stats)

I hope they won t let people to be stuck with 1000 gold useless SOULBOUND equipment.

I don’t see how anyone can object to a one time change in stats, they have done it before.

Personally i just expected the stat to be changed to the same value as the other stats on the equipment. if it had +38 to everything, it would be +38 ferocity as well. thats what I expected. I’ll admit the values for crit damage were pretty crazy high for it being a supposed “balanced” stat set, but all i DONT want to see is it LOSING the stat entirely. that would just kill celestial.

morrolan.9608:

I don’t see how anyone can object to a one time change in stats, they have done it before.

Because you still have a piece with the same spread of stats, just a reduction in one of them; identical to Berserker’s, Assassin’s and Valkyrie’s in this respect, but none of them are getting a respread.

Sarrs.4831:

morrolan.9608:

I don’t see how anyone can object to a one time change in stats, they have done it before.

Because you still have a piece with the same spread of stats, just a reduction in one of them; identical to Berserker’s, Assassin’s and Valkyrie’s in this respect, but none of them are getting a respread.

Bad in math? If celestials gets the same ferocity as zerkers or sin armor pieces (as it is currently) I would totally be fine with it not needing a reset. Anyone can see that bring it down to the same numerical value as other stats on celestial set is a huge and unnecessary nerf.

Sarrs.4831:

morrolan.9608:

I don’t see how anyone can object to a one time change in stats, they have done it before.

Because you still have a piece with the same spread of stats, just a reduction in one of them; identical to Berserker’s, Assassin’s and Valkyrie’s in this respect, but none of them are getting a respread.

Ever thought of maybe someone use it for a profession that’s not an elementalist? Someone perhaps choose celestials because the high crit dam, and uses it to mix with other set to maximize the stats? Changing the crit dam changes the usefulness of the gear. One again, we are not asking for celetrials to be un-nerfed. Just want to be able to reselect the stats so that our hard work is not wasted due to no fault of our own.

bigmonto.4215:

Sarrs.4831:

morrolan.9608:

I don’t see how anyone can object to a one time change in stats, they have done it before.

Because you still have a piece with the same spread of stats, just a reduction in one of them; identical to Berserker’s, Assassin’s and Valkyrie’s in this respect, but none of them are getting a respread.

Bad in math? If celestials gets the same ferocity as zerkers or sin armor pieces (as it is currently) I would totally be fine with it not needing a reset. Anyone can see that bring it down to the same numerical value as other stats on celestial set is a huge and unnecessary nerf.

Except that Celestial doesn’t get the same critical strike damage as Zerker or Assassin armor pieces. It varies between getting less, getting the same amount, and getting more. I’m wondering whether you can see the problem or not with Celestial getting more than the premiere crit damage stat spreads.

Yeah, it is a nerf; however, receiving a nerf does not necessitate receiving a stat spread change. Remember, the only reason that they gave you a stat spread change with Magic Find is because Magic Find no longer exists as a stat on gear.

bigmonto.4215:

Ever thought of maybe someone use it for a profession that’s not an elementalist? Someone perhaps choose celestials because the high crit dam, and uses it to mix with other set to maximize the stats? Changing the crit dam changes the usefulness of the gear. One again, we are not asking for celetrials to be un-nerfed. Just want to be able to reselect the stats so that our hard work is not wasted due to no fault of our own.

Thank goodness, easy questions. Yes, I have thought of uses outside of elementalists. And yes, someone probably chose celestial because it has high crit damage. And yes, changing the crit damage changes how good the gear is.

You kinda sorta do ask for Celestial to be un-nerfed in your first response, when you say

If celestials gets the same ferocity as zerkers or sin armor pieces (as it is currently) I would totally be fine with it not needing a reset.

However…
These arguments apply equally to the other crit damage spreads.
Classes other than Elementalist can use Berserker’s, Assassin’s and Valkyrie’s. You can mix Berserker’s, Assassin’s and (particularly) Valkyrie’s with other stat spreads for the high crit damage. Changing crit damage changes the value of Berserker’s, Assassin’s and Valkyrie’s.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

I wanted to stop by and say thanks for the feedback. We do feel that the celestial stat set will be hit the hardest with the upcoming critical damage changes, so we are looking at possibly boosting the overall stats by a small amount.

Also the celestial stat set in PvP is using a much lower stat multipliers than the PvE versions so we will be looking at changing this as well. Nothing is set in stone, but I wanted to let guys know this is something we are discussing.

PLEASE examine this thread as well. I go as far to demonstrate that this change does exactly the opposite of what it’s intended to do and ultimately hurts everyone else a lot harder than intended.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Ferocity-doesn-t-nerf-berserker-builds/first

I am not entirely sure the point of your post. So I will respond to some of your statement.

Sarrs.4831:

I’m wondering whether you can see the problem or not with Celestial getting more than the premiere crit damage stat spreads.

I have mentioned in my previous post. It is neither possible nor our responsibility to know the devs intent on the celestial stats. The fact that its designed that way and left there for a while, I would say the current crit dam was the intent. So it was NOT the problem that celestial gets high crit dam. There is also NO premiere crit damage stat spreads sets, crit dam is a supporting stat in current set.

Sarrs.4831:

Yeah, it is a nerf; however, receiving a nerf does not necessitate receiving a stat spread change. Remember, the only reason that they gave you a stat spread change with Magic Find is because Magic Find no longer exists as a stat on gear.

I know, I am here to argue in favor of the stats change based on reasons I have mentioned in my previous posts. I also support stats change on other crit dam sets by the way. However zerker or sin sets needs less of a reset as its purpose and functionality does not change. The nerf also does not hit them nearly as hard. For some the celestial’s functionality is changed completely, and it was not even a set to be nerfed.

I also never compared it to a MF set. I used the example of Flamekissed armor skin. Where the devs changed the looks completely, and was able to offer the players refund if they choose. Since celestial’s functionality is changed, I argue that we deserve a refund as some on us pay real money for the mats to craft it. If a refund is difficult, the next best thing is a stats reset.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/learn-about-critical-damage-changes/

Celestial will get 6% overal stat boost. Personal conclusion: NOT ENOUGH by a long shot. I’m very good in math, and with 15 ferocity giving 1% crit chance, any trinkets are gonna be hit tremendously hard. This means celestial ones will go from 7% crit rate to 3-4% crit rate. Since this is flat out percent, this is a massive nerf. +6% to power, precision, condition damage will not make up for this. Also the problem lies with the armor in pve. The base celestial values of most piece are way to low (6% would barely even give the chest piece, a boost, wich already is the best piece). The worst armor piece are probably gonna get +0 or +1 celestial stat. That is really laughable. Remember at same time, that all critical damage in these parts will go from 1-3% to 0-1,5% More then halving the power output of a stat. With only 6% (rounding down, often nothing at all) will not counter the loss.

To bad i Just complete a celestial + rune of divinity set.

Also if rune of divinity gets nerfed by this, it’s another nail in the coffin. +10 to all stats means 10 feroticy or 0,66 crit chance. That’s a whopping 266% nerf (133% nerf if the math is reversed, base to old).

Conclusion? The only strength of celestial (accessiories) got a very hard hit.
Armor that barely was usefull, will be hit even harder cause the low stats won’t get boost by rounding down the supposed 6% boost. Secondly Ferocity nerf will be even harder on these pieces. The armor will barely output any crit damage anymore. And last divinity runes will get a massive down too.

Overall crit damage (without base account for), will be nerfed 35-55% depending on how they actually implement it. This means at least an overall damage nerf of 10-20% (if not even more). Celestial already ran behind other sets in both survivability and damage. Now that gap becomes bigger (not smaller).

I’m dissapointed. And i’m sorry if i take preliminary conclusions, but my math is good. And if 15 ferocity = 1 crit damage STICKS, without exceptions, rounding up or down exceptions, celestial will be hit ultra hard.

TL:DR? Old celestial set was viable cause devs could manually input crit damage. Wich they did. It was about 75-90% of an actually zerker equipment. This was exceptional cause other stats are much lower. Still in practise, it worked incredible well. Guild wars 2 works, that when a stat is to low it becomes almost useless. Basically a stat has a treshold before it becomes good. Celestial is a hard set, because every stat is just behind that tresshold. With Crit damage fixed a bit higher up though, this worked (just) ok enough in terms of damage, and survivability was slightly subpar but still playable.

However with updating crit damage to a ‘nobody escapes this formula’ setup, it really screws over celestial. Anything related to celestial (see above), will be hit almost as hard as 50% nerf on crit damage. And 6% stat boost will not make up for that (especially with rounding up issues). While i respect your fear for a powercreep arenanet (i really do), especially to much vit/healing/though combo might be scary (and thus you keep it to 6% for now) overall this is by far not enough. Two reasons why: 1) Ferocity nerf hits celestial even harder then ancitipated, hence, a bigger boost is justified. 2) Fear for defensive stat powercreep is not justified. Gw2 stats work that when they are low, they are pretty disastrous, only at certain tresshold, they start giving tru results and being worth it. Celestial always had a hard time living with this mechanic. Thus 10-20% overall stat boost, may sound superiorly op, but in end result because of stat mechanic limitations will barely make celestial op. Especially with rounding issues (20% of superior low base, is still a massively low boost, thus not fully representing a 20% boost output boost in general gameplay and effectiveness feel).

Can we get a refund option if we’ve already crafted ascended? You should have come out with something like this after we had the option of wasting gold crafting it.

Meanwhile, condition bunkers are lol-ing up a storm.

They still haven’t understood that the problem was in the exponential outcome and not in the stat itself.
Celestials were already balanced by the low power and precision. Zerkers weren’t and won’t be with the feature patch either.

How about a show of hands on who plans to keep the new celestial set or pieces with the new stats? I certainly don’t, not even for my guardian. Celestials basically becomes total crap.

How about allowing us to reelect the gear type for the ridiculous expensive ascended pieces? better yet give us a way to reelect it out of combat or with a moderate cost. Seriously what’s the point of allowing us to respec traits at will, but not armor stats.

bigmonto.4215:

How about a show of hands on who plans to keep the new celestial set or pieces with the new stats? I certainly don’t, not even for my guardian. Celestials basically becomes total crap.

I intend to. I wear Celestial on support builds, not DPS. While the change costs me some spike damage, I’m reasonably satisfied the gains in survivability, support, and even base damage (yay more power and condition damage) are adequate recompense for my purposes.

If you think the 6% is gonna help you Nike, then your math isn’t very good (no offense meant though). It’s just vit/healing/thoughness combo wise celestial already isn’t very good (there are better options) 6% first of all on it’s own is tremendous low, but with rounding errors, and low value on armor it will be even worse.

This is a bit of an issue of marketing tbh. 6% looks like a 6% boost. However in practise it will be like a 1-2% boost. (and that while the set already lingers behind other sets). And you might not notice it, but even support builds damage. Wich means sometimes you crit. Wich means sometimes, you use critical damage. That part will be so more nerfed then you realize now, that you might chance your mind when the update comes to life.

I’m inclined to say that a person in full Celestial will probably see no change or a slight loss in their overall damage, and a person mixing Zerks with Celestial will see a solid nerf. Because of the first point, I’m somewhat inclined to say that 6% may be too small of a boost, but it does include a (very) modest survivability boost.

I can’t remember; is there anything in the blog post that says whether or not the trait-based crit damage will be changed to ferocity or whether it’ll stay?

The problem with this change is for those of us who spent 30 days making the exotic sets. The set that took the most time to make gets hit the hardest? How about changing Celestial to something that makes sense with these changes instead of doing something that really doesn’t do a whole lot to make it look attractive. I am super bummed about these changes for my Ele most of all.

In the best case – ascended chest armor – we’re talking of 3 more points per stat…and 2.7% less crit damage – 50 ferocity is 3.3% crit damage, as opposed to the 6% it had before.
And that’s the best piece. Others are getting +2 and +1 increases in their stats, and still heavy nerfs on crit damage.
Overall it is a huge nerf.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

If you think the 6% is gonna help you Nike, then your math isn’t very good (no offense meant though). It’s just vit/healing/thoughness combo wise celestial already isn’t very good (there are better options) 6% first of all on it’s own is tremendous low, but with rounding errors, and low value on armor it will be even worse.

Ok, lets pretend I’m playing GuildWars 2, a game were support largely gets crapped on, but you can still do it. No support player anywhere is allowed to just do support – they have to do damage AND support if they’re going to contribute. Prior to the introduction of Zealot gear, your options for single adjective combinations of healing power and power were… Cleric and Celestial. The end.

Since Zealot came out I’ve refit two of my support/damage 80s into it and on the whole I’m happy with the results, but I still have a lot of Celestial armor laying around and losing some crit damage for more healing power and power and everything else is just not making me a sad panda.

I’m not saying its not a nerf to damage-uber-alles set ups that were dipping into Celestial for some cheap crit bonus. I think its a very deliberate nerf to those builds. But for mine its an acceptable trade off.

I did the math for myself: Full celestial (incl back) with full zerk traits and ruby orbs will be hit for 8.2% compared to 9.81% for full zerk with the same traits and orbs. Do notice: that’s direct damage. In general we get 1.6% closer in direct damage to zerk + our condition damage, healing power, and ehp will get 6% closer to the other sets aswell.

You can’t compare pure dps effects if you’re using gear which sits in the middle of it all and ignore the stats increase towards the other parts celestial gear shines in. Yes we lose some direct damage to pvt, yet gain condi damage, critchance (a bit under 2%, not much I know) which pending on class/playstyle compensates and gain survivability. Am I 100% happy with the change? No I’d have liked a 10% increase to fully compensate on other area’s. However from a balance point of view it’s not nearly as bad as it seems at first glance.

Healing power on celestial is low to begin with, you can reach perhaps 500-600 (depending on traits also) with a full set. Cleric and the others go much higher. 6% healing power of 600 = 36. You think that will work for you? 36 healing power will make your build better?

My advice (as someone who is good in math), don’t invest in celestial. Use you Zealot’s as for support/decent damage, it’s actually better then the new celestial.

Also there are traits (and rune i think) inc that say ‘healing you do on not yourself but allies’ is increased by 25%. That would be MUCH more interesting for you Get that rune on your zealout set and you will be pleased. This is a tru step for war for your gameplay (heal support). 36 healing power on celestial? nothing at all tbh But I respect your opinion and if it works for you then why not

I’ll be losing the equivalent of 37% crit damage to gain 13.2 of all stats. Seems logical to me.

Can anobody list the stats for a 2h or 1h celestial weapon here? It’s the only celestial piece i don’t have, And i would like to use that to complete my math behind it.

The trait is interesting (I’m not a big fan of Elementalist gameplay but I like the option). I’m waiting to see what percentage of outgoing healing the Sigil gives because yeah, that looks like an awesome new tool.

And no, 36 is not an amazing jump, but if you largely didn’t care about crit damage in the first place getting 36 healing, power, condition damage, precision, vitality, and toughness does add up.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Can anobody list the stats for a 2h or 1h celestial weapon here? It’s the only celestial piece i don’t have, And i would like to use that to complete my math behind it.

2h celestial is 83 all stats, 11% crit damage. The nerf will increase all stats to ~88 and reduce the crit damage to ~6

JahRo.6432:

I’ll be losing the equivalent of 37% crit damage to gain 13.2 of all stats. Seems logical to me.

In all seriousness, it you were focused on doing damage, why were you wearing Celestial?

Nike.2631:

JahRo.6432:

I’ll be losing the equivalent of 37% crit damage to gain 13.2 of all stats. Seems logical to me.

In all seriousness, it you were focused on doing damage, why were you wearing Celestial?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/12dmi5/tip_stat_optimization_with_crit_damage/

It wasn’t for full damage. It was to maximize crit damage, while giving up little. I’m not angry about PvE, since anything in PvE is full zerk anyway. This is for WvW only. What kittenes me off is that I spent time and money theorycrafting only to render it sub-par.

JahRo.6432:

It wasn’t for full damage. It was to maximize crit damage, while giving up little. I’m not angry about PvE, since anything in PvE is full zerk anyway. This is for WvW only. What kittenes me off is that I spent time and money theorycrafting only to render it sub-par.

So what will you be shifting to?