Guild Wars 2

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Lettuce.2945:

I wasn’t joking. Stop, drop, and roll trait. You are welcome.

So to remove the unfair disadvantage ONE class has to a condition we should make ourselves WEAKER by taking such a trait. We should NOT need it. NO class should be affected by it for weapon/attunement swaps.

facepalms Dude, please actually try it before you whine about it. That trait actually made me a lot stronger. It’s definitely worlds apart from taking something like soothing disruption or whatever. My survivability has gone through the roof just from that ONE “kitten” trait. It’s a free burn/chill removal every 10 seconds which is USEFUL. Seriously, the serious top eles are using it right now.

Lettuce.2945:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Lettuce.2945:

I wasn’t joking. Stop, drop, and roll trait. You are welcome.

So to remove the unfair disadvantage ONE class has to a condition we should make ourselves WEAKER by taking such a trait. We should NOT need it. NO class should be affected by it for weapon/attunement swaps.

facepalms Dude, please actually try it before you whine about it. That trait actually made me a lot stronger. It’s definitely worlds apart from taking something like soothing disruption or whatever. My survivability has gone through the roof just from that ONE “kitten” trait. It’s a free burn/chill removal every 10 seconds which is USEFUL. Seriously, the serious top eles are using it right now.

ArmegeddonAsh has an unreasonable hatred regarding conditions. He wants to completely ignore them and complains when he doesn’t get to do that.

Lettuce.2945:

facepalms Dude, please actually try it before you whine about it. That trait actually made me a lot stronger. It’s definitely worlds apart from taking something like soothing disruption or whatever. My survivability has gone through the roof just from that ONE “kitten” trait. It’s a free burn/chill removal every 10 seconds which is USEFUL. Seriously, the serious top eles are using it right now.

The simple fact is. We should NOT need a trait to fix the game designers mistake. With it having a 10 second cool down as well. It is nothing that amazing either. Sure, its decent but we should need a decent trait to begin with.

The “top eles” – if they went and all quit…would you? What does it matter what others use? You should be running what you want. Unless you only run other peoples builds and never really understand why they use specific things. I run a build i made myself. I don’t have the trait.

That being said, this SHOULD be fixed. However, we are ele when was the last time an actual PROBLEM with the class was actually fixed?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

ArmegeddonAsh has an unreasonable hatred regarding conditions. He wants to completely ignore them and complains when he doesn’t get to do that.

Lol. I have no problems with them. I mean it would be nice if other classes actually had to make sacrifices to be condition builds. Conditions should NOT be attached to weapon auto attacks in my opinion. Especially long range weapons.

Other than that, fix Chill. Make it actually AFFECT Thieves skills. Should reduce the initiative regen. Shouldn’t affect weapon/attunement cool downs. Other than that Chill is fine. Can be a bit too punishing too Ele but not enough to Thief but it is okay on other classes.

It does affect thief skills. Go heartseeker spam when you’re chilled, or literally any of their leap/movement skills that aren’t shadowsteps, it absolutely murders them. Initiative can’t be affected by chill the same as other things because that means every single skill has longer recharges when casting a single one.

You constantly go around telling people to adjust their build to not be affected by other stupid mechanics. Try fixing your ele build so it doesn’t get affected by chill.

Bhawb.7408:

It does affect thief skills. Go heartseeker spam when you’re chilled, or literally any of their leap/movement skills that aren’t shadowsteps, it absolutely murders them. Initiative can’t be affected by chill the same as other things because that means every single skill has longer recharges when casting a single one.

You constantly go around telling people to adjust their build to not be affected by other stupid mechanics. Try fixing your ele build so it doesn’t get affected by chill.

Movement? Yes.
Skill cool down? No.

Isn’t EVERY build on EVERY class affected by the moment part. How are they affected by skill cool down? So Why should ONE class have Chill only 50% effective? Why not make it for other conditions to be the same and weaker.

Ele = Reduce Burning Duration
Warrior = Reduce Bleeding Duration
Guardian = Reduce Confusion Duration

just some ideas. Sure we could come up with some for Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer as well.

I personally have no issue with Chill, i DO however think it is an issue when 1/8 classes are only affected by it 50% and 1/8 class is affected more than all the others. Though that is just me and seeing as its Ele, nothing will be done anyway.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Lol. I have no problems with them. I mean it would be nice if other classes actually had to make sacrifices to be condition builds. Conditions should NOT be attached to weapon auto attacks in my opinion. Especially long range weapons.

Why not? Which conditions on auto attacks are so problematic?

Bleeding? It’s just damage. Most autos that have bleeds on them have lousy power coefficients (Warrior Rifle is an exception, but you never see it used…), so the damage is actually coming from the bleeds instead.

Burning? Same thing as bleeding. There’s also only a single auto-attack that causes burning and its direct damage is horrid.

Vulnerability? Just damage ramp and useless to condition damage builds anyway. This is found almost exclusively on Power weapons.

Poison? Only found on two autos. Thief Dagger is an assassination weapon, so they want to minimize enemy healing if they survive the initial burst. Necro scepter is intended to be an attrition weapon, so it reduces the healing to help prevent the foe from healing faster than the necro does (though it doesn’t work due to the rest of the class skills).

Fear? I agree. It should never be on an auto. Good thing it isn’t.

Chill? I agree. It should never be on an auto. Good thing it isn’t.

Immobilize? I agree. It should never be on an auto. Good thing it isn’t.

Torment? Nothing wrong with it being on an auto as it’s just damage. But it isn’t.

Weakness? Pretty strong overall. Only on three autos, though, and I’ve never heard of ele earth staff or warrior mace being complained about for that reason. Thief Sword has likewise been pretty silent on the Weakness.

Blind? I agree. It should never be on an auto. Good thing it isn’t.

Confusion? Depending on duration and stacking ability (needs to be low on each), this may not be too terrible. But it isn’t on any auto, so it’s a moot point.

Cripple? It’s on a few autos, but guess what? They’re all melee weapons! The Cripple is there to prevent their target from kiting them, not to kite themselves.

So, once again, where is the problem with conditions on autos?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Bhawb.7408:

It does affect thief skills. Go heartseeker spam when you’re chilled, or literally any of their leap/movement skills that aren’t shadowsteps, it absolutely murders them. Initiative can’t be affected by chill the same as other things because that means every single skill has longer recharges when casting a single one.

You constantly go around telling people to adjust their build to not be affected by other stupid mechanics. Try fixing your ele build so it doesn’t get affected by chill.

Movement? Yes.
Skill cool down? No.

Isn’t EVERY build on EVERY class affected by the moment part. How are they affected by skill cool down? So Why should ONE class have Chill only 50% effective? Why not make it for other conditions to be the same and weaker.

The skills themselves have reduced distances, something that is actually fairly unique to thief, not to mention how harshly it affects things like backstab, another unique thief mechanic. So affecting mobility, especially when it doesn’t just affect movement speed but the actual distance you move with certain skills, absolutely hurts a profession so balanced around mobility.

Also initiative affects every single skill. A thief with chill affecting initiative uses their 5 skill, now their 2-4 skills also have been hit by it as well. Realistically if thieves got hit by chill fully they’d be absolutely screwed against chill as a mechanic.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Why not? Which conditions on auto attacks are so problematic?

To me it just promotes auto attack spamming. I just see A LOT of condition builds spamming auto attacks, these are mostly Long Bow rangers, Sword Warriors, Sceptre Necromancers and Pistol Thieves all have a HIGH tendency to just spam Auto attack.

This is especially the case when it comes to range. At least warrior has to put themselves in harms way to get the condition from the sword on the target.

Bhawb.7408:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Bhawb.7408:

It does affect thief skills. Go heartseeker spam when you’re chilled, or literally any of their leap/movement skills that aren’t shadowsteps, it absolutely murders them. Initiative can’t be affected by chill the same as other things because that means every single skill has longer recharges when casting a single one.

You constantly go around telling people to adjust their build to not be affected by other stupid mechanics. Try fixing your ele build so it doesn’t get affected by chill.

Movement? Yes.
Skill cool down? No.

Isn’t EVERY build on EVERY class affected by the moment part. How are they affected by skill cool down? So Why should ONE class have Chill only 50% effective? Why not make it for other conditions to be the same and weaker.

The skills themselves have reduced distances, something that is actually fairly unique to thief, not to mention how harshly it affects things like backstab, another unique thief mechanic. So affecting mobility, especially when it doesn’t just affect movement speed but the actual distance you move with certain skills, absolutely hurts a profession so balanced around mobility.

Also initiative affects every single skill. A thief with chill affecting initiative uses their 5 skill, now their 2-4 skills also have been hit by it as well. Realistically if thieves got hit by chill fully they’d be absolutely screwed against chill as a mechanic.

Reduced skill movement affects all classes i think, i know it affects ele that is for sure. I would assume other classes that use movement skills as well. So i dont think that really counts.

How does it “harshly” affect Backstab? In what way is it harsh to them that it isnt to other melee based attacks on other classes.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

To me it just promotes auto attack spamming. I just see A LOT of condition builds spamming auto attacks, these are mostly Long Bow rangers, Sword Warriors, Sceptre Necromancers and Pistol Thieves all have a HIGH tendency to just spam Auto attack.

This is especially the case when it comes to range. At least warrior has to put themselves in harms way to get the condition from the sword on the target.

I really hate those Long Bow condi rangers.

To me the access to ranged conditions needs to be reduced. Players should not be able to spam conditions from the moment someone is in range, especially when it is Ranged Vs Melee.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Why not? Which conditions on auto attacks are so problematic?

To me it just promotes auto attack spamming. I just see A LOT of condition builds spamming auto attacks, these are mostly Long Bow rangers, Sword Warriors, Sceptre Necromancers and Pistol Thieves all have a HIGH tendency to just spam Auto attack.

This is especially the case when it comes to range. At least warrior has to put themselves in harms way to get the condition from the sword on the target.

Sooo…what else are those builds supposed to do when everything else is on cooldown/an inappropriate time to use? Are you saying players shouldn’t be able to deal damage as soon as they are in range? Cause that sounds exceedingly stupid.

And yeah, man, those longbow rangers really hurt with those conditions…

Going back to wether chill should effect attunment swap or not… I would say it doesnt matter if it was consistent meaning, ether chill effects attunment swap AND weapon swap or both arent effected by it at all.

I mean if you consider attunemant swap as a skill shouldnt be weapon swaping also be considered as a skill?
Heck you could even consider dodging a skill (though it is only restricted in stamina and doesnt have a cd so it wouldnt matter anyways regarding chill…)

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Why not? Which conditions on auto attacks are so problematic?

To me it just promotes auto attack spamming. I just see A LOT of condition builds spamming auto attacks, these are mostly Long Bow rangers, Sword Warriors, Sceptre Necromancers and Pistol Thieves all have a HIGH tendency to just spam Auto attack.

This is especially the case when it comes to range. At least warrior has to put themselves in harms way to get the condition from the sword on the target.

Sooo…what else are those builds supposed to do when everything else is on cooldown/an inappropriate time to use? Are you saying players shouldn’t be able to deal damage as soon as they are in range? Cause that sounds exceedingly stupid.

And yeah, man, those longbow rangers really hurt with those conditions…

I am saying that they should not be able to spam conditions when they are at range. Too many classes can and even before you actually get into range you are at a huge disadvantage.

Damage is one thing, having many stacks of conditions including Bleeding, Poison, Burns and others before your target even gets to you is just a little too strong in my opinion. Poison and Burning should not be on ANY auto attack in my opinion, both are VERY strong.

Remember, i am talking from a Condition build perspective. In power builds these conditions aren’t really that dangerous but when facing Condition builds when its Range Vs Melee means you are at a disadvantage even before the fight has even begun.

Also, so i spelled ONE word wrong. It is rather clear that i meant Short bow.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Remember, i am talking from a Condition build perspective. In power builds these conditions aren’t really that dangerous but when facing Condition builds when its Range Vs Melee means you are at a disadvantage even before the fight has even begun.

gap closer skills

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Why not? Which conditions on auto attacks are so problematic?

To me it just promotes auto attack spamming. I just see A LOT of condition builds spamming auto attacks, these are mostly Long Bow rangers, Sword Warriors, Sceptre Necromancers and Pistol Thieves all have a HIGH tendency to just spam Auto attack.

This is especially the case when it comes to range. At least warrior has to put themselves in harms way to get the condition from the sword on the target.

Sooo…what else are those builds supposed to do when everything else is on cooldown/an inappropriate time to use? Are you saying players shouldn’t be able to deal damage as soon as they are in range? Cause that sounds exceedingly stupid.

And yeah, man, those longbow rangers really hurt with those conditions…

I am saying that they should not be able to spam conditions when they are at range. Too many classes can and even before you actually get into range you are at a huge disadvantage.

Damage is one thing, having many stacks of conditions including Bleeding, Poison, Burns and others before your target even gets to you is just a little too strong in my opinion. Poison and Burning should not be on ANY auto attack in my opinion, both are VERY strong.

Remember, i am talking from a Condition build perspective. In power builds these conditions aren’t really that dangerous but when facing Condition builds when its Range Vs Melee means you are at a disadvantage even before the fight has even begun.

And this is different than melee against ranged power builds…how? In both cases, the ranged combatant gets hits off before the melee combatant does. He has an advantage before the melee guy can do anything.

Range is an advantage, regardless of the kind of build either player has. You’re basically saying you want that advantage to not exist. Do you really want a game where everyone is melee?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Do you really want a game where everyone is melee?

All melee zerker. No items. Final Destination.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Lettuce.2945:

facepalms Dude, please actually try it before you whine about it. That trait actually made me a lot stronger. It’s definitely worlds apart from taking something like soothing disruption or whatever. My survivability has gone through the roof just from that ONE “kitten” trait. It’s a free burn/chill removal every 10 seconds which is USEFUL. Seriously, the serious top eles are using it right now.

The simple fact is. We should NOT need a trait to fix the game designers mistake. With it having a 10 second cool down as well. It is nothing that amazing either. Sure, its decent but we should need a decent trait to begin with.

The “top eles” – if they went and all quit…would you? What does it matter what others use? You should be running what you want. Unless you only run other peoples builds and never really understand why they use specific things. I run a build i made myself. I don’t have the trait.

That being said, this SHOULD be fixed. However, we are ele when was the last time an actual PROBLEM with the class was actually fixed?

Just try it. You can thank me later and swallow your pride and I hope you apologize here after you’ve tried it. Have a good day.

Edit: Oh, and if I recall, you are a condi ele right? Condi Ele complaining about condis when his only condi application lies in fire attunement and some utilities and refuses to take stop drop and roll…Lol. Yeah, I can understand why you get annoyed by chill when you sit in one attunement for your damage. Funny guy.

Ladies, if you could perhaps move this endless slap fight into another room…?

Some replies have mentioned Stop Drop & Roll: I think it’s certainly true that Stop Drop & Roll is a great option, however it compounds the issue of pushing and shoving the Ele into Water. (It is also a bit less selfless than Cleansing Wave or Cleansing Water at that tier). This is similar to saying, “Just run a Generosity sigil” in that these arguments only circumvent the fact of Ele being painful to play under chill.

phaeris.7604:

Those things you listed are more of a universal counter for everyones abilities. Those counter elementalists as well.

There’s nothing specifically in game that messes with initiative regen. You get a free immunity to one of the most disabling conditions in the game.

Chill is doubly punishing on eles since having 20 skills to fire off was countered by having utility level cooldowns on many of them.

If chill effects our class mechanic it should effect everyones class mechanic.

1. what you’re asking for is decontextualized “balance”. you’re essentially saying that a counter to your profession is valid and fair balance to every other. which is poorly thought out reasoning at best.
2. again you’re wrong about the counters. 90% of what i listed does not affect ele’s attunement switching because you can still swap regardless of enemy status. if they’ve gone invulnerable and you need to heal they’ve opened a perfect window for you to do so by switching to water etc, so if anything, much of what i listed can be seen as beneficial one way or another in terms of the ele’s class mechanic. you still end up getting the benefits from swapping.

there are counters to other profession mechanics, you’re just pigeonholing yourself into an elementalist pov and playing victim.

Lettuce.2945:

Just try it. You can thank me later and swallow your pride and I hope you apologize here after you’ve tried it. Have a good day.

Edit: Oh, and if I recall, you are a condi ele right? Condi Ele complaining about condis when his only condi application lies in fire attunement and some utilities and refuses to take stop drop and roll…Lol. Yeah, I can understand why you get annoyed by chill when you sit in one attunement for your damage. Funny guy.

How have i been complaining about conditions? Asking for a condition to have the SAME affect for all classes. That is all i ask for. Nothing more. Nothing less. Not quite sure what me playing a condition build has to do with wanting a condition that is fairly strong to actually work the same for ALL classes.

Why is it, that just one condition should work differently for certain classes? That is all i am saying. Not saying the condition is overpowered and not saying it is under powered. It should work the same on other classes, that is all.

Lol, no ele on any build sits in one attunement….

Imagi.4561:

Meanwhile, on the other side of the coin: attunement swapping allows Eles to proc on-swap sigils more frequently than classes with normal weapon swapping.

The only problem I have with chill is that Ice Shard Stab causes 10 seconds of it.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the coin warriors swap every 5 sec and eles doesn’t have 4 sigils…

Imagi.4561:

Meanwhile, on the other side of the coin: attunement swapping allows Eles to proc on-swap sigils more frequently than classes with normal weapon swapping.

The only problem I have with chill is that Ice Shard Stab causes 10 seconds of it.

I think you will find that Ele are bound by the same cool downs as every other class. So no we don’t proc them more often because they still have an internal cool down and the last time i checked that wasn’t removed for ele.

Ele also have to spend 6 trait points in Arcane to get attunement swap down to 10 seconds like everyone else. Even if we had 0 cool down on attunement swap, the fact that sigils have an ICD means it doesnt matter how often we could swap they would still only proc when they come off cool down.

Also. Lets not forget that Ele has 2 Sigil slots Vs 4 like everyone else (except Engineer)

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I think you will find that Ele are bound by the same cool downs as every other class. So no we don’t proc them more often because they still have an internal cool down and the last time i checked that wasn’t removed for ele.

As I said before, the ICD on sigils is 9 seconds. The cooldown for a normal weapon swap is 10 seconds.

9 < 10.

Is there something inherently complicated about this, or something that I’m not clarifying?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Ele also have to spend 6 trait points in Arcane to get attunement swap down to 10 seconds like everyone else. Even if we had 0 cool down on attunement swap, the fact that sigils have an ICD means it doesnt matter how often we could swap they would still only proc when they come off cool down.

Also. Lets not forget that Ele has 2 Sigil slots Vs 4 like everyone else (except Engineer)

To quote the Wikipedia page for attunements:

“Attunements activate instantly and can be activated mid-cast. When one is activated, the previous attunement recharges for 13 seconds, while other attunements which are ready to use will recharge for 1.625 seconds. "

1.625 < 9 < 10.

Rudy.6184:

Imagi.4561:

Meanwhile, on the other side of the coin: attunement swapping allows Eles to proc on-swap sigils more frequently than classes with normal weapon swapping.

The only problem I have with chill is that Ice Shard Stab causes 10 seconds of it.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the coin warriors swap every 5 sec and eles doesn’t have 4 sigils…

I don’t play Warrior, so I don’t have enough experience with the class to have a rational discussion about them.

Also, Warrior traits have nothing to do with attunement swapping.

Imagi.4561:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I think you will find that Ele are bound by the same cool downs as every other class. So no we don’t proc them more often because they still have an internal cool down and the last time i checked that wasn’t removed for ele.

As I said before, the ICD on sigils is 9 seconds. The cooldown for a normal weapon swap is 10 seconds.

9 < 10.

Is there something inherently complicated about this, or something that I’m not clarifying?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Ele also have to spend 6 trait points in Arcane to get attunement swap down to 10 seconds like everyone else. Even if we had 0 cool down on attunement swap, the fact that sigils have an ICD means it doesnt matter how often we could swap they would still only proc when they come off cool down.

Also. Lets not forget that Ele has 2 Sigil slots Vs 4 like everyone else (except Engineer)

To quote the Wikipedia page for attunements:

“Attunements activate instantly and can be activated mid-cast. When one is activated, the previous attunement recharges for 13 seconds, while other attunements which are ready to use will recharge for 1.625 seconds. "

1.625 < 9 < 10.

Put the bong down, son.

What about “changing attunement while channeling skills” ?

pierwola.9602:

What about “changing attunement while channeling skills” ?

I guess that’s similar to exiting Death Shroud while using Tainted Shackles. Lets not go there, bub.

I posted this in the last Chill / Attunement CD thread

I was leaving this thread alone earlier, but after playing a lot of sPvP today…

Please fix this. This is such a death sentence it isn’t even funny.

I think that WITH 30 Arcane, Chill makes Attunements have a SIXTEEN second recharge time. And at base, they have a 21 SECOND COOLDOWN.

That’s insane, dude. I don’t see how anyone could think that’s alright.

Imagi.4561:

As I said before, the ICD on sigils is 9 seconds. The cooldown for a normal weapon swap is 10 seconds.

9 < 10.

Is there something inherently complicated about this, or something that I’m not clarifying?

That’s only valid if you have same sigils of both weapon sets like battle on a staff and on a scepter. And that’s also only valid if you swap weapons the moment you can which sounds a bit far too stretched.

To quote the Wikipedia page for attunements:

“Attunements activate instantly and can be activated mid-cast. When one is activated, the previous attunement recharges for 13 seconds, while other attunements which are ready to use will recharge for 1.625 seconds. "

1.625 < 9 < 10.

Ah, so eles have infinite number of attunements. Do you realize you don’t usually swap weapons/attunements just to trigger a sigil because then you cannot go back to your previous attunement for the next 13 seconds? Think about the consequences of actions before giving theoretical examples without much of an afterthought.

SonOfKrypton.4357:

pierwola.9602:

What about “changing attunement while channeling skills” ?

I guess that’s similar to exiting Death Shroud while using Tainted Shackles. Lets not go there, bub.

Tainted Shackles isn’t a channeled ability.

Bhawb.7408:

Tainted Shackles isn’t a channeled ability.

10 POINTS TO GRYFFINDOR!

haviz.1340:

That’s only valid if you have same sigils of both weapon sets like battle on a staff and on a scepter. And that’s also only valid if you swap weapons the moment you can which sounds a bit far too stretched.

The entire point I’ve been making in this thread is that the 9 second ICD of the sigils is less than the 10 second cooldown of a normal weapon swap. This gives Eles an advantage with on-swap sigils.

I’ve never made any claims as to the min-maxing potential of these cooldowns, and I will not because it’s all hypothetical and completely irrelevant to the topic of this thread.

9 <10. It’s really that simple. Seriously. Honestly. I swear.

haviz.1340:

Ah, so eles have infinite number of attunements. Do you realize you don’t usually swap weapons/attunements just to trigger a sigil because then you cannot go back to your previous attunement for the next 13 seconds? Think about the consequences of actions before giving theoretical examples without much of an afterthought.

When you swap from one attunement to another, all 4 attunements do not go on a 13-second cooldown. That was the implication in ArmageddonAsh’s post that I was replying to.

And when I run a Sigil of Battle on my Ele, I don’t swap attunements simply to trigger the sigil, nor does anyone else I know—I proc it every nine seconds simply by going through my normal rotations. It’s magical, really.

As far as I know, I’ve been stating facts. The length of cooldowns is a fact. And, unless I was lied to when I learned how to count, the absolute value of numbers is also a fact.

SonOfKrypton.4357:

Bhawb.7408:

Tainted Shackles isn’t a channeled ability.

10 POINTS TO GRYFFINDOR!

IMO you should add this to your suggestion.
Remove the ability to switch attunement while casting skill.

pierwola.9602:

SonOfKrypton.4357:

Bhawb.7408:

Tainted Shackles isn’t a channeled ability.

10 POINTS TO GRYFFINDOR!

IMO you should add this to your suggestion.
Remove the ability to switch attunement while casting skill.

To what end?

I dont know, balance ?

pierwola.9602:

SonOfKrypton.4357:

Bhawb.7408:

Tainted Shackles isn’t a channeled ability.

10 POINTS TO GRYFFINDOR!

IMO you should add this to your suggestion.
Remove the ability to switch attunement while casting skill.

I’ve seen a lot of nerf suggestions on these forums, but that is the first one where I think it would honestly kill an entire class.

pierwola.9602:

I dont know, balance ?

Oh, I meant do I put this well justified and insightful suggestion at the front end or the back end of my post?

Imagi.4561:

I’ve seen a lot of nerf suggestions on these forums, but that is the first one where I think it would honestly kill an entire class.

It’s not my suggestion.

Imagi.4561:

The entire point I’ve been making in this thread is that the 9 second ICD of the sigils is less than the 10 second cooldown of a normal weapon swap. This gives Eles an advantage with on-swap sigils.

I’ve never made any claims as to the min-maxing potential of these cooldowns, and I will not because it’s all hypothetical and completely irrelevant to the topic of this thread.

9 <10. It’s really that simple. Seriously. Honestly. I swear.

It is relevant because you almost never use this equation in practise, it’s very simple. You just don’t see the difference between theoretical and practical application.

When you swap from one attunement to another, all 4 attunements do not go on a 13-second cooldown. That was the implication in ArmageddonAsh’s post that I was replying to.

And when I run a Sigil of Battle on my Ele, I don’t swap attunements simply to trigger the sigil, nor does anyone else I know—I proc it every nine seconds simply by going through my normal rotations. It’s magical, really.

As far as I know, I’ve been stating facts. The length of cooldowns is a fact. And, unless I was lied to when I learned how to count, the absolute value of numbers is also a fact.

First of all, you don’t proc it every 9 seconds unless you time it perfectly. Once again you use perfect example that works in theory.

I don’t think it’s hard to understand that you can simply get same sigil on the second weapon set, swap every 10s and it will trigger. The difference of 1 second advantage ele might have is disproportionate to the disadvantage of the chill effect that always affects him.

You state facts without thinking much about them. There’s more than simple math that drives pvp encounters.

Imagi.4561:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I think you will find that Ele are bound by the same cool downs as every other class. So no we don’t proc them more often because they still have an internal cool down and the last time i checked that wasn’t removed for ele.

As I said before, the ICD on sigils is 9 seconds. The cooldown for a normal weapon swap is 10 seconds.

9 < 10.

Is there something inherently complicated about this, or something that I’m not clarifying?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Ele also have to spend 6 trait points in Arcane to get attunement swap down to 10 seconds like everyone else. Even if we had 0 cool down on attunement swap, the fact that sigils have an ICD means it doesnt matter how often we could swap they would still only proc when they come off cool down.

Also. Lets not forget that Ele has 2 Sigil slots Vs 4 like everyone else (except Engineer)

To quote the Wikipedia page for attunements:

“Attunements activate instantly and can be activated mid-cast. When one is activated, the previous attunement recharges for 13 seconds, while other attunements which are ready to use will recharge for 1.625 seconds. "

1.625 < 9 < 10.

Warrior: 3 Trait points for a FIVE second reduction on weapon swap
Elementalist: SIX trait points for a THREE second reduction on attunements

So you think having access to TWO sigils ONE second before others is good enough reason? What about the fact that they have TWO less Sigil slots? Hell, increase Sigils cool downs for ele by one second and give us 2 extra Sigil slots and i would be fine with that.

The we get into Chill, why should ONE class be more punished by having Chill affect what is pretty much our weapon swap. Just because we can use 2 sigils every 9 seconds, that is assuming you time it EXACTLY right.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The we get into Chill, why should ONE class be more punished by having Chill affect what is pretty much our weapon swap. Just because we can use 2 sigils every 9 seconds, that is assuming you time it EXACTLY right.

Change the “chill” and remove the ability to swap attunement while casting.

pierwola.9602:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The we get into Chill, why should ONE class be more punished by having Chill affect what is pretty much our weapon swap. Just because we can use 2 sigils every 9 seconds, that is assuming you time it EXACTLY right.

Change the “chill” and remove the ability to swap attunement while casting.

Why is it that for Ele to get something fixed that should never have been introduced to begin with that they have to sacrifice something else. Just curious, what does Thief sacrifice for for getting Chill only affect their movement? What does Ele gain with Chill affecting Skill cool downs, Movement speed and attunement swapping?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Why is it that for Ele to get something fixed that should never have been introduced to begin with that they have to sacrifice something else. Just curious, what does Thief sacrifice for for getting Chill only affect their movement? What does Ele gain with Chill affecting Skill cool downs, Movement speed and attunement swapping?

Because attunement swapp = weapon swapp ?

pierwola.9602:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Why is it that for Ele to get something fixed that should never have been introduced to begin with that they have to sacrifice something else. Just curious, what does Thief sacrifice for for getting Chill only affect their movement? What does Ele gain with Chill affecting Skill cool downs, Movement speed and attunement swapping?

Because attunement swapp = weapon swapp ?

In that case, change Arcane bonus to something else and make all attunement swaps to 10 second base seeing as all other classes have 10 second swaps.

Also, seeing as Attunement swap = weapon swap, we should be given 2 extra sigil slots because everyone else has them as well (minus Engineer)

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

In that case, change Arcane bonus to something else and make all attunement swaps to 10 second base seeing as all other classes have 10 second swaps.

You have 4 attunement.

Also, seeing as Attunement swap = weapon swap, we should be given 2 extra sigil slots because everyone else has them as well (minus Engineer)

Ok, 2 sigils on fire/water and 2 on air/earth.

I can assure you, it will be a nerf not a buff.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Imagi.4561:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I think you will find that Ele are bound by the same cool downs as every other class. So no we don’t proc them more often because they still have an internal cool down and the last time i checked that wasn’t removed for ele.

As I said before, the ICD on sigils is 9 seconds. The cooldown for a normal weapon swap is 10 seconds.

9 < 10.

Is there something inherently complicated about this, or something that I’m not clarifying?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Ele also have to spend 6 trait points in Arcane to get attunement swap down to 10 seconds like everyone else. Even if we had 0 cool down on attunement swap, the fact that sigils have an ICD means it doesnt matter how often we could swap they would still only proc when they come off cool down.

Also. Lets not forget that Ele has 2 Sigil slots Vs 4 like everyone else (except Engineer)

To quote the Wikipedia page for attunements:

“Attunements activate instantly and can be activated mid-cast. When one is activated, the previous attunement recharges for 13 seconds, while other attunements which are ready to use will recharge for 1.625 seconds. "

1.625 < 9 < 10.

Warrior: 3 Trait points for a FIVE second reduction on weapon swap
Elementalist: SIX trait points for a THREE second reduction on attunements

So you think having access to TWO sigils ONE second before others is good enough reason? What about the fact that they have TWO less Sigil slots? Hell, increase Sigils cool downs for ele by one second and give us 2 extra Sigil slots and i would be fine with that.

The we get into Chill, why should ONE class be more punished by having Chill affect what is pretty much our weapon swap. Just because we can use 2 sigils every 9 seconds, that is assuming you time it EXACTLY right.

In before warrior fanatics claim you can’t compare traits between classes (unless the warrior one is inferior in that case nerf the non-warrior).

An Ele has too many ways to deal with conditions, OR be totally immune to them and ele can be just as difficult to hold down with conditions as a warrior if they want to build for it.

like
cleansing wave (x3 if traited)
cleansing water
diamond skin
evasive arcana
magnetic shield
cleansing fire
burning fire
ether renewal

and hell now that water trident gives regen, if you go 30 in water that removes conditions too.

You are ever only hard countered when you get out played, or you dont build to counter in the first place.

P.S.
Thanks to the might meta, you could go the classic 10-30-30 and still do great damage because of fury and the stupid amounts of might an ele can get, while also being tanky.

Solori.6025:

An Ele has too many ways to deal with conditions, OR be totally immune to them and ele can be just as difficult to hold down with conditions as a warrior if they want to build for it.

like
cleansing wave (x3 if traited)
cleansing water
diamond skin
evasive arcana
magnetic shield
cleansing fire
burning fire
ether renewal

and hell now that water trident gives regen, if you go 30 in water that removes conditions too.

You are ever only hard countered when you get out played, or you dont build to counter in the first place.

P.S.
Thanks to the might meta, you could go the classic 10-30-30 and still do great damage because of fury and the stupid amounts of might an ele can get, while also being tanky.

now, how many can you get into the same build?
Sure we have plenty of ways to deal with them if we build exactly right but you cant just list everything we have. You cant get most of that in the same build.

As for the 1/6/6/0/0 build that you mentioned that is NOT that great. You lose healing, You lose the benefit that comes with going into Arcane as well.