Guild Wars 2

Talking about the “pew pew!” from every single class. When the combat meta didn’t have projectiles everywhere, it was a lot more enjoyable. You know, skills with real telegraphs and auto attacks that didn’t hit for damage similar to melee attacks.

What do we have that is totally annoying to fight against?

Engineer (The entire class basically)
- Rifle skills
- Pistol skills
- Static discharge
- Elixir gun
- Nades
- Turrets

Ranger (All arrows are identical)
- Longbow skills
- Shortbow skills
- Axe skills

Warrior (Pew pew I created a fire field bigger than the sun)
- Longbow

Necromancer (1111111)
- Lich form

Thief (Such wow)
- Pistol/Dagger

Now, what projectiles in the game are actually balanced, have actual counterplay, are dodgeable and not annoying to fight against?

Engineer
- Launch personal battering ram
- Throw wrench

Warrior
- Bladetrail
- Rifle skills
- Throw axe
- Impale

Mesmer
- Pistol clones
- Mirror blade

Necromancer
- Deathly swarm
- Reaper’s touch

Ranger
- None

Elementalist
- Elementalist doesn’t need projectiles because it casts 10 skills in 1 second for full health-none which is much more balanced and has much counterplay. (Sarcasm btw)

See how these are all skillshots rather than “pew pew!” spam? More skill, less pew pew please. No one has enough reflection to deal with everything and no one really wants to because it’s not fun. Necromancer has zero defense against all of this pew pew spam going on btw.

PS. It was totally not necessary to buff ranger auto attacks either. Getting close to the ranger is, you know… kind of supposed to be the counter against longbow?

inb4 QQ pew pew

How does warrior rifle and mesmer pistol clone have more counterplay than other stuff?

robertul.3679:

How does warrior rifle and mesmer pistol clone have more counterplay than other stuff?

Rifle is garbage because volley isn’t a machine gun with a knockback of 10 football fields with stealth, AOE with super saiyan power levels of damage at far range and pistol clones are obvious when they’re spawned.

Ranger auto attacks can hit over 3k – that’s an auto attack with no cooldown lol.
Good luck doing that with warrior rifle.

It sounds like you just don’t like Ranged combat, which is fine, everyone is allowed to have their preference, but it’s nothing more than that… a preference.

Personally I prefer ranged combat and am glad is has over time become more viable in the game, since it has for most of the games history been relatively unused and unviable

Also I’d point out that even with the LB AA buff at short range, it still has one of the worst, if not the worst, damage outputs of any weapon AA (when at <500 range). Going up close to a LB range is still a huge disadvantage to them.

You’ve only make the list of builds that you’re not able to kill and the list of builds that you’re able to kill.
And asking for nerfs because you have problems to fight against some builds.

We all have problems against some builds and classes, but whit the right build or/and teamwork you’re able to kill every enemy.

For example I play warrior in celestial whit a personal build (sword/axe + LB (but only because I use both direct damage and condition damage and rifle don’t give condition damage) and I can fight well against almost all the builds. Some builds kill me, some other can’t. That’s all.

Zefrost.3425:

Talking about the “pew pew!” from _every single class.#

Guardian? Scepter is hardly ever used.

Yes! Rangers should exclusively use GS and Sword!

Also, they should have no pets…

… heavy armour to compensate…

… and maybe a hammer…

… then give them a longbow to compensate a bit…

Aren’t Lich Form projectiles so slow, that you can dodge them by simply stepping side?
Also, why not simply take cover?

My belief is ranged combat is impossible to balance in this game because of one thing – tab targeting => no skill needed to aim ranged attacks.

Yes I know it’s not a shooter but here lies the problem. Then we either have:
- ranged skills too weak as in the past with combat strongly favouring melee
- ranged skills too strong with no skill required compared to melee

Curunen.8729:

My belief is ranged combat is impossible to balance in this game because of one thing – tab targeting => no skill needed to aim ranged attacks.

Yes I know it’s not a shooter but here lies the problem. Then we either have:
- ranged skills too weak as in the past with combat strongly favouring melee
- ranged skills too strong with no skill required compared to melee

Ranged combat DOES require skill. It’s incredibly biased to say otherwise.

A ranged damage dealer has to be capable of keeping away from the enemy, which requires well timed snares, knock downs, immobilizes, etc to limit the enemy’s advance while simultaneously desperately avoiding any of the opponent’s control effects and trying to continuously run away without turning your back on the enemy so you can keep doing damage.

Melee counters this strategy with gap closing skills to get in close and utilize their own slows and control effects trying to keep the ranged fighter in melee range.

It’s called kiting. It’s in just about every RPG ever invented, and it’s the single most important skill a ranged fighter can have.

Personally I feel the combat is solid in GW2. You have plenty of blocks, dodges, relects, gap closers, immobilize, chill, cripples, to take care of ranged builds. Not to mention, the ability to use ranged attacks yourself. You have two choices. Adjust and change, or be unhappy about it and complain. Frankly I feel you made a poor choice in choosing the later. There is nothing wrong with the combat. Simply because you do not enjoy it on a personal level, is no justification to change it and remove the fun for those who enjoy it.

Hrm, sorry, but stuff flying everywhere is a large part of what makes any large scale fight feel actually large scale. I’d argue what we lack is actual collision detection and hence the ability to “build a wall”, but also to hit friendly targets (probably not doing anything) with your stuff.

But other than that, what is so wrong with it?

dancingmonkey.4902:

Personally I feel the combat is solid in GW2.

I don’t

-teef

Ehecatl.9172:

Curunen.8729:

My belief is ranged combat is impossible to balance in this game because of one thing – tab targeting => no skill needed to aim ranged attacks.

Yes I know it’s not a shooter but here lies the problem. Then we either have:
- ranged skills too weak as in the past with combat strongly favouring melee
- ranged skills too strong with no skill required compared to melee

Ranged combat DOES require skill. It’s incredibly biased to say otherwise.

A ranged damage dealer has to be capable of keeping away from the enemy, which requires well timed snares, knock downs, immobilizes, etc to limit the enemy’s advance while simultaneously desperately avoiding any of the opponent’s control effects and trying to continuously run away without turning your back on the enemy so you can keep doing damage.

Melee counters this strategy with gap closing skills to get in close and utilize their own slows and control effects trying to keep the ranged fighter in melee range.

It’s called kiting. It’s in just about every RPG ever invented, and it’s the single most important skill a ranged fighter can have.

No skill compared to melee if both deal comparable damage, not no skill at all.
The melee user is under pressure to close the gap – the ranged user has to kite and pew pew reactively to maintain the gap. Personally I think the latter is much easier to do.

Anyway as I said, the problem is tab targeting – if this game had a crosshair and proper aiming mechanics for ranged weapons, it would be easier to balance.

But I am very biased against this game’s archaic targeting – maybe because I come from a background of fps/tps and action rpgs, all of which require manual aiming with weapons and skills. Maybe in GW3 they can finally do away with it instead of a half-kittened attempt at making it an “action” game with dodge mechanics and casting while moving.

Ehecatl.9172:

Curunen.8729:

My belief is ranged combat is impossible to balance in this game because of one thing – tab targeting => no skill needed to aim ranged attacks.

Yes I know it’s not a shooter but here lies the problem. Then we either have:
- ranged skills too weak as in the past with combat strongly favouring melee
- ranged skills too strong with no skill required compared to melee

Ranged combat DOES require skill. It’s incredibly biased to say otherwise.

A ranged damage dealer has to be capable of keeping away from the enemy, which requires well timed snares, knock downs, immobilizes, etc to limit the enemy’s advance while simultaneously desperately avoiding any of the opponent’s control effects and trying to continuously run away without turning your back on the enemy so you can keep doing damage.

Melee counters this strategy with gap closing skills to get in close and utilize their own slows and control effects trying to keep the ranged fighter in melee range.

It’s called kiting. It’s in just about every RPG ever invented, and it’s the single most important skill a ranged fighter can have.

but if the ranged damage is close to the melee damage, or the ranged class is just as survivable, what excatly is gained by getting close? thats the problem, IF ranged is too powerful.
the melee has to do the exact same things that you say make the ranged skilled, except they do no damage when they arent doing it well.

I agree with the poster, that ranged damage basically has to be balanced by complex mechanics/set ups or perhaps more mechanics to block ranged damage. If succesful closing the gap mattered, i think you might have a point, but it really doesnt.

Nick.6972:

Zefrost.3425:

Talking about the “pew pew!” from _every single class.#

Guardian? Scepter is hardly ever used.

To be fair, it’s Staff Autoattack because, well, you know. Single target damage is meh but once you start hitting 3+ at a time with a non-reflecting 600 range skill … well, you do the math.

Scepter 2 changing to a symbol would make it far more popular.

phys.7689:

Ehecatl.9172:

Curunen.8729:

My belief is ranged combat is impossible to balance in this game because of one thing – tab targeting => no skill needed to aim ranged attacks.

Yes I know it’s not a shooter but here lies the problem. Then we either have:
- ranged skills too weak as in the past with combat strongly favouring melee
- ranged skills too strong with no skill required compared to melee

Ranged combat DOES require skill. It’s incredibly biased to say otherwise.

A ranged damage dealer has to be capable of keeping away from the enemy, which requires well timed snares, knock downs, immobilizes, etc to limit the enemy’s advance while simultaneously desperately avoiding any of the opponent’s control effects and trying to continuously run away without turning your back on the enemy so you can keep doing damage.

Melee counters this strategy with gap closing skills to get in close and utilize their own slows and control effects trying to keep the ranged fighter in melee range.

It’s called kiting. It’s in just about every RPG ever invented, and it’s the single most important skill a ranged fighter can have.

but if the ranged damage is close to the melee damage, or the ranged class is just as survivable, what excatly is gained by getting close? thats the problem, IF ranged is too powerful.
the melee has to do the exact same things that you say make the ranged skilled, except they do no damage when they arent doing it well.

I agree with the poster, that ranged damage basically has to be balanced by complex mechanics/set ups or perhaps more mechanics to block ranged damage. If succesful closing the gap mattered, i think you might have a point, but it really doesnt.

and this is also why we have this AMAZING, and seemingly COMPLETELY UNKNOWN third form of damage called CONDITIONS.

Which means, HIT EM ONCE, JUST ONCE, and time will deal with the rest.

Amazing concept is it not? Whoever thought up such a great “middle ground” form of damage between hitting many times in melee or many times at range must be a genius.

If only people could apply those conditions against ranged classes. Oh wait, THEY CAN.

How?

Condition Gear + block skill + Rune of the Guardian.
Any multi hitting skill – rekt by perma fire.
Any other skill – still rekt by perma fire.
Stop attacking to avoid perma fire – dealing no damage.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Yes! Rangers should exclusively use GS and Sword!

Also, they should have no pets…

… heavy armour to compensate…

… and maybe a hammer…

… then give them a longbow to compensate a bit…

I lol’d

Prysin.8542:

phys.7689:

Ehecatl.9172:

Curunen.8729:

My belief is ranged combat is impossible to balance in this game because of one thing – tab targeting => no skill needed to aim ranged attacks.

Yes I know it’s not a shooter but here lies the problem. Then we either have:
- ranged skills too weak as in the past with combat strongly favouring melee
- ranged skills too strong with no skill required compared to melee

Ranged combat DOES require skill. It’s incredibly biased to say otherwise.

A ranged damage dealer has to be capable of keeping away from the enemy, which requires well timed snares, knock downs, immobilizes, etc to limit the enemy’s advance while simultaneously desperately avoiding any of the opponent’s control effects and trying to continuously run away without turning your back on the enemy so you can keep doing damage.

Melee counters this strategy with gap closing skills to get in close and utilize their own slows and control effects trying to keep the ranged fighter in melee range.

It’s called kiting. It’s in just about every RPG ever invented, and it’s the single most important skill a ranged fighter can have.

but if the ranged damage is close to the melee damage, or the ranged class is just as survivable, what excatly is gained by getting close? thats the problem, IF ranged is too powerful.
the melee has to do the exact same things that you say make the ranged skilled, except they do no damage when they arent doing it well.

I agree with the poster, that ranged damage basically has to be balanced by complex mechanics/set ups or perhaps more mechanics to block ranged damage. If succesful closing the gap mattered, i think you might have a point, but it really doesnt.

and this is also why we have this AMAZING, and seemingly COMPLETELY UNKNOWN third form of damage called CONDITIONS.

Which means, HIT EM ONCE, JUST ONCE, and time will deal with the rest.

Amazing concept is it not? Whoever thought up such a great “middle ground” form of damage between hitting many times in melee or many times at range must be a genius.

If only people could apply those conditions against ranged classes. Oh wait, THEY CAN.

How?

Condition Gear + block skill + Rune of the Guardian.
Any multi hitting skill – rekt by perma fire.
Any other skill – still rekt by perma fire.
Stop attacking to avoid perma fire – dealing no damage.

Conditions are part of the ranged dilemma – given many condition skills are cast at range with not easily noticeable animations. This isn’t just about ranger lonbow, but in general ranged skills vs melee skills and gap closing vs kiting.

Curunen.8729:

No skill compared to melee if both deal comparable damage, not no skill at all.
The melee user is under pressure to close the gap – the ranged user has to kite and pew pew reactively to maintain the gap. Personally I think the latter is much easier to do.

Anyway as I said, the problem is tab targeting – if this game had a crosshair and proper aiming mechanics for ranged weapons, it would be easier to balance.

But I am very biased against this game’s archaic targeting – maybe because I come from a background of fps/tps and action rpgs, all of which require manual aiming with weapons and skills. Maybe in GW3 they can finally do away with it instead of a half-kittened attempt at making it an “action” game with dodge mechanics and casting while moving.

Damage in itself isn’t the only advantage melee can have in a game. In this one, for example, melee weapons are loaded with much, much more blocks, evades, reflects, control, and/or movement skills than ranged weapons have. For example the ranger longbow has no skills that outright protect it from damage. It’s skills are designed to control and keep enemies at bay. This means that if an enemy gets close they no longer can fight using that longbow and have to switch to a melee weapon. Conversely the melee fighter’s main damage comes from a weapon that already has strong defensive and control skills built into it’s attacks so it can survive the ranged damage long enough to close the distance.

If a melee fighter is ambushed they can use the weapon they currently have equipped to protect themselves. Warrior hammer can knock the enemy back, stun lock the enemy for a while, and control them by applying cripple and weakness. A greatsword can use it’s splendid movement to disengage or it’s burst to get the enemy to back off, and can use a ranged cripple to keep the enemy close. Shields and maces have plenty of defenses baked in. But most important of all, melee attacks CLEAVE. Meaning they can hit multiple enemies around the user, and can actually hit a stealthed opponent.

If a ranged fighter is ambushed their ranged weapon is effectively useless. Ranged attacks don’t cleave and so can’t hit very reliably at that distance, can’t hit stealthed opponents except with channels and AoEs, and if the opponent moves around you your attacks all automatically miss. Ranger longbow is especially vulnerable here because their only two gap making skills need to hit the target to work, and as I just noted it’s pretty difficult to hit reliably when the enemy keeps jousting through you to prevent your targeting to work properly. Thus, the ranged fighter has to pull out a melee weapon to deal with the situation.

As for your assertion that it’s easier to keep someone at range than to close the distance, that isn’t quite true. This game in particular is loaded with gap closers and ways to defend against ranged damage. Combined with the fact that in order to hit you the ranger has to be moving backward, which is much slower than running forward, it means that it’s a very uphill battle to keep someone off you if they are intent on closing the distance and are even slightly good at the game. Melee will absolutely happen, it’s just a matter of how long it takes until the melee fighter gets up close, and hopefully the ranged fighter will have softened the melee up enough that they can take them in the resulting melee, or manage to reclaim some ground again.

It’s also worth noting that in this game everyone can carry a melee and ranged weapon option and use them as the circumstance calls for it. Just as most longbow rangers keep a greatsword handy to defend themselves, there’s no reason melee users can’t carry a ranged weapon so they can apply pressure while closing the gap. If you choose to double up on melee sets then yah, getting peppered from a distance and having to struggle to get close before you can unload your damage was the trade off you made for being so dominating in close range combat.

That is all more of a problem in pvp conquest which naturally favours melee or cqc play, although in wvw any ranged weapon user can sit on the edge of a group and pew pew outliers to death with no effort (talking medium/large groups).

This does not change the fact that skill in using ranged weapons in GW2 comes from kiting and positioning – actually dealing damage does not require much in the way of effort because of auto aim…

Conversely melee requires more effort to get in and deal the damage, but as you said – built in evades, blocks and so on on melee skills make it easier to avoid damage taken.

Switching between weapon sets is a given for versatile play – full ranged or full melee is a handicap depending on situation.

I don’t know why you mention doubling up on melee sets as if I personally do this – for the record I mostly play greatsword + sword/torch shatter so at least one ranged option, which happens to hit more than one target as well.

I wasn’t implying you personally do it, I was just covering all my bases. I know there are builds that double up on melee who’d legitimately have issues if they got attacked by a ranged fighter from a vantage point, for example. That’s just a weakness in the build.

For your other points, the game isn’t balanced around WvWvW, much less zerg vs zerg combat. Additionally, sitting in the back lines and picking off people around the edges of the battle is the entire purpose of ranged support. That’s their role. I also don’t see how it takes more skill to be in the melee train and spam your auto attack and occasionally throw down and blast water fields as the commander requests. You end up getting kills because of the sheer numbers involved and the skill of your commander, not because of your individual abilities.

Skill wise it really depends on what you consider “skill”. Personally, any time you need to make a strategic choice about how to approach an upcoming fight and a tactical choice concerning what skills to use and when to maximize damage dealt and minimize damage taken is skill. It doesn’t matter if you need to hit one key to land your burst or five, so long as you need to think and are constantly reacting to new information as it’s presented. This definitely exists in any confrontation between a ranged fighter and a melee fighter on both sides. A ranged fighter has to manage their control skills more effectively than melee as it’s both their primary source of defense AND is necessary to ensure they can line up their bursts. Do you want to use that immobilize now to land your burst or do you want to save it for when the enemy gets close and you need breathing room? What about your knock down? Better keep applying your slows to compensate for how slowly backpedaling is, but maybe you want to save that chill for when they get close so you can make your escape.

Meanwhile melee use their control skills almost entirely to land their damage and keep the opponent in close range. For the melee fighter this engagement is about managing their defensive tricks and trying to counter every control skill the ranged player dishes out, then unloads the moment they end up in close range.

Both sides require skill to perform well. The number of keys one presses to do damage doesn’t matter, what matters is the number of decisions you need to make per second of each fight and how you handle dire situations that you hadn’t planned on.

Prysin.8542:

phys.7689:

Ehecatl.9172:

Curunen.8729:

My belief is ranged combat is impossible to balance in this game because of one thing – tab targeting => no skill needed to aim ranged attacks.

Yes I know it’s not a shooter but here lies the problem. Then we either have:
- ranged skills too weak as in the past with combat strongly favouring melee
- ranged skills too strong with no skill required compared to melee

Ranged combat DOES require skill. It’s incredibly biased to say otherwise.

A ranged damage dealer has to be capable of keeping away from the enemy, which requires well timed snares, knock downs, immobilizes, etc to limit the enemy’s advance while simultaneously desperately avoiding any of the opponent’s control effects and trying to continuously run away without turning your back on the enemy so you can keep doing damage.

Melee counters this strategy with gap closing skills to get in close and utilize their own slows and control effects trying to keep the ranged fighter in melee range.

It’s called kiting. It’s in just about every RPG ever invented, and it’s the single most important skill a ranged fighter can have.

but if the ranged damage is close to the melee damage, or the ranged class is just as survivable, what excatly is gained by getting close? thats the problem, IF ranged is too powerful.
the melee has to do the exact same things that you say make the ranged skilled, except they do no damage when they arent doing it well.

I agree with the poster, that ranged damage basically has to be balanced by complex mechanics/set ups or perhaps more mechanics to block ranged damage. If succesful closing the gap mattered, i think you might have a point, but it really doesnt.

and this is also why we have this AMAZING, and seemingly COMPLETELY UNKNOWN third form of damage called CONDITIONS.

Which means, HIT EM ONCE, JUST ONCE, and time will deal with the rest.

Amazing concept is it not? Whoever thought up such a great “middle ground” form of damage between hitting many times in melee or many times at range must be a genius.

If only people could apply those conditions against ranged classes. Oh wait, THEY CAN.

How?

Condition Gear + block skill + Rune of the Guardian.
Any multi hitting skill – rekt by perma fire.
Any other skill – still rekt by perma fire.
Stop attacking to avoid perma fire – dealing no damage.

Along with the completely unknown 4th form of damage that comes from node size spammable AoE’s whithout any form of CD penalty and deal the same damage no matter where you stand on it.

Also, rejoice, soon, even shortbow will cleave.

Zefrost.3425:

Ranger (All arrows are identical)

False.

I have to say that while I’m glad that Rangers have a place, now, they were much more interesting mechanically in GW1. They were generally focused around timing interrupting skills. While Moment of Clarity kind of encourages that style it’s still not the same. There was nothing more satisfying then locking down an opponent and THEN pew pewing.

The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Rapid fire is the squeaking loudly in the community see’s currently. It will probably get nerfed because it generates too much adrenaline.

Enemies are annoying to fight against! Pls nerf! /thread

Pew pew has always been pretty annoying and overtuned in GW2 (Mesmer greatsword, Thief shortbow, Warrior longbow), it isn’t really surprising they keep going in that direction. It doesn’t help that basically none of them are skillshots.

Ranged attacks don’t need telegraphs because most of them have slow projectile speeds meaning you can see them, and kite them.

Many of them also have long channels (like RF and volley) meaning that once the skill starts you still have time to avoid most of the damage.

Also if you see a ranged class you should be trying to use stability/doges/blocks/teleports to get into melee range.

All classes have the tools to deal with range. Most people just aren’t used to building for it.

shimmerless.4560:

Pew pew has always been pretty annoying and overtuned in GW2 (Mesmer greatsword, Thief shortbow, Warrior longbow), it isn’t really surprising they keep going in that direction. It doesn’t help that basically none of them are skillshots.

If your referring to rangers long bow. There was out cry from the community to buff rangers long bow. For good reason too. Would you disagree that bow rangers were under powered previously?

BurrTheKing.8571:

I have to say that while I’m glad that Rangers have a place, now, they were much more interesting mechanically in GW1.

What class wasn’t? Can we just get GW1.5?

Honestly, Zefrost, you sound like someone who complains about ideas they don’t fully understand…

Yeah ranger longbow is ridiculous specially when coupled with roots and their pet knockdown.

Xillllix.3485:

Yeah ranger longbow is ridiculous specially when coupled with roots and their pet knockdown.

i know right, its kinda like steal + backstab thieves. Poof your rooted and dead in a second. If only i could see the ranger closing in on me from 600 range away to fire off his roots. Alas, rangers are very sneaky, so you’d never be able to counter them since there is no counter to their attacks.
I know, because i set up a warrior with reflect, retal, blocks, stuns, gapclosers AND invuln. Not only did it take me forever to weave back and forth between knockbacks and pets fearing me across the map, but when i finally reached the ranger…. it had killed itself on my reflects. I was so angry, because i wanted a good long fight, where i could end it all with a well placed eviscerate. But no, that darn ranger, not only did it get downed, but it did so without me ever attacking it. That is so annoying. It takes all the fun out of fighting them.
If only they could offer me a fair fight. An actual fight.

LCV.7245:

Honestly, Zefrost, you sound like someone who complains about ideas they don’t fully understand…

No, I understand counterplay and rock paper scissors, but power ranger is a new counter to necromancers and it’s one that can’t really be dealt with other than LoSing. Berserker stance and warriors were the counter before, but the ranger is an all new ball game.

Let me give you a really impossible situation for the necromancer to deal with:
- Necromancer died and had to respawn.
- Berserker ranger has went to necromancer’s spawn and set up camp at vantage point.
- Berserker ranger ‘pew pews!’ necromancer from full to death before he can leave the vicinity of his spawn.

There is literally nothing you can do against this unless you try to leave through a different spawn exit (in which the ranger just has to reticule you and follow you). There are no reflects we can do, no evades, no blocks, and no amount of toughness or protection will negate what they can do. This could honestly become meta – just pew pewing necromancers when they respawn.

Zefrost.3425:

LCV.7245:

Honestly, Zefrost, you sound like someone who complains about ideas they don’t fully understand…

No, I understand counterplay and rock paper scissors, but power ranger is a new counter to necromancers and it’s one that can’t really be dealt with other than LoSing. Berserker stance and warriors were the counter before, but the ranger is an all new ball game.

Let me give you a really impossible situation for the necromancer to deal with:
- Necromancer died and had to respawn.
- Berserker ranger has went to necromancer’s spawn and set up camp at vantage point.
- Berserker ranger ‘pew pews!’ necromancer from full to death before he can leave the vicinity of his spawn.

There is literally nothing you can do against this unless you try to leave through a different spawn exit (in which the ranger just has to reticule you and follow you). There are no reflects we can do, no evades, no blocks, and no amount of toughness or protection will negate what they can do. This could honestly become meta – just pew pewing necromancers when they respawn.

I’m sorry when exactly did necros lose their ranged attacks? Dodge towards him, lay CC’s and condi’s on him, proceed to laugh at the ranger that didn’t bring any condi removal.

Well, this is the result of them “balancing” the game.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zefrost.3425:

LCV.7245:

Honestly, Zefrost, you sound like someone who complains about ideas they don’t fully understand…

No, I understand counterplay and rock paper scissors, but power ranger is a new counter to necromancers and it’s one that can’t really be dealt with other than LoSing. Berserker stance and warriors were the counter before, but the ranger is an all new ball game.

Let me give you a really impossible situation for the necromancer to deal with:
- Necromancer died and had to respawn.
- Berserker ranger has went to necromancer’s spawn and set up camp at vantage point.
- Berserker ranger ‘pew pews!’ necromancer from full to death before he can leave the vicinity of his spawn.

There is literally nothing you can do against this unless you try to leave through a different spawn exit (in which the ranger just has to reticule you and follow you). There are no reflects we can do, no evades, no blocks, and no amount of toughness or protection will negate what they can do. This could honestly become meta – just pew pewing necromancers when they respawn.

I’m sorry when exactly did necros lose their ranged attacks? Dodge towards him, lay CC’s and condi’s on him, proceed to laugh at the ranger that didn’t bring any condi removal.

You don’t understand.

When a necromancer dies, he will have zero life force. Even if a necromancer has a little bit left, life blast does less damage when a target is further away – it’s the opposite of mesmer and ranger. Any other attacks are only 900 range which aren’t even nearly as much of a threat as 1500 ranged attacks from a powerhouse is. Also, spectral grasp has some of the worst tracking in the entire game, so you can’t even attempt to pull the target.

Let me show you 2 situations on legacy where there is no where to LoS the ranger and the ranger can keep you pinned down in your own spawn area.

.

Zefrost.3425:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zefrost.3425:

LCV.7245:

Honestly, Zefrost, you sound like someone who complains about ideas they don’t fully understand…

No, I understand counterplay and rock paper scissors, but power ranger is a new counter to necromancers and it’s one that can’t really be dealt with other than LoSing. Berserker stance and warriors were the counter before, but the ranger is an all new ball game.

Let me give you a really impossible situation for the necromancer to deal with:
- Necromancer died and had to respawn.
- Berserker ranger has went to necromancer’s spawn and set up camp at vantage point.
- Berserker ranger ‘pew pews!’ necromancer from full to death before he can leave the vicinity of his spawn.

There is literally nothing you can do against this unless you try to leave through a different spawn exit (in which the ranger just has to reticule you and follow you). There are no reflects we can do, no evades, no blocks, and no amount of toughness or protection will negate what they can do. This could honestly become meta – just pew pewing necromancers when they respawn.

I’m sorry when exactly did necros lose their ranged attacks? Dodge towards him, lay CC’s and condi’s on him, proceed to laugh at the ranger that didn’t bring any condi removal.

You don’t understand.

When a necromancer dies, he will have zero life force. Even if a necromancer has a little bit left, life blast does less damage when a target is further away – it’s the opposite of mesmer and ranger. Any other attacks are only 900 range which aren’t even nearly as much of a threat as 1500 ranged attacks from a powerhouse is. Also, spectral grasp has some of the worst tracking in the entire game, so you can’t even attempt to pull the target.

Let me show you 2 situations on legacy where there is no where to LoS the ranger and the ranger can keep you pinned down in your own spawn area.

.

Do you even play a necro our are you just grasping at straws to try and justify a nerf? My necro does 1200 range with ever one of its staff skills, which have the added bonus of cc’s and condi’s.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zefrost.3425:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zefrost.3425:

LCV.7245:

Honestly, Zefrost, you sound like someone who complains about ideas they don’t fully understand…

No, I understand counterplay and rock paper scissors, but power ranger is a new counter to necromancers and it’s one that can’t really be dealt with other than LoSing. Berserker stance and warriors were the counter before, but the ranger is an all new ball game.

Let me give you a really impossible situation for the necromancer to deal with:
- Necromancer died and had to respawn.
- Berserker ranger has went to necromancer’s spawn and set up camp at vantage point.
- Berserker ranger ‘pew pews!’ necromancer from full to death before he can leave the vicinity of his spawn.

There is literally nothing you can do against this unless you try to leave through a different spawn exit (in which the ranger just has to reticule you and follow you). There are no reflects we can do, no evades, no blocks, and no amount of toughness or protection will negate what they can do. This could honestly become meta – just pew pewing necromancers when they respawn.

I’m sorry when exactly did necros lose their ranged attacks? Dodge towards him, lay CC’s and condi’s on him, proceed to laugh at the ranger that didn’t bring any condi removal.

You don’t understand.

When a necromancer dies, he will have zero life force. Even if a necromancer has a little bit left, life blast does less damage when a target is further away – it’s the opposite of mesmer and ranger. Any other attacks are only 900 range which aren’t even nearly as much of a threat as 1500 ranged attacks from a powerhouse is. Also, spectral grasp has some of the worst tracking in the entire game, so you can’t even attempt to pull the target.

Let me show you 2 situations on legacy where there is no where to LoS the ranger and the ranger can keep you pinned down in your own spawn area.

.

Do you even play a necro our are you just grasping at straws to try and justify a nerf? My necro does 1200 range with ever one of its staff skills, which have the added bonus of cc’s and condi’s.

Yeah, I have to agree with this. Dodging toward the ranger avoids whatever attack they are sending your way, as well as closing the gap. As well, the range on staff skills is centered on the ground target reticule, so you can actually reach over 1200 range. As was mentioned, you can C them out of attacks, and damage them.

I am not telling you what I think you should do. I am simply telling you what I do. So I know very certainly that it works. My problem is that some posters make it sound like there is nothing possible to do, and try to convince those of us who handle it just fine, that what we do every day actually is impossible.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zefrost.3425:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zefrost.3425:

LCV.7245:

Honestly, Zefrost, you sound like someone who complains about ideas they don’t fully understand…

No, I understand counterplay and rock paper scissors, but power ranger is a new counter to necromancers and it’s one that can’t really be dealt with other than LoSing. Berserker stance and warriors were the counter before, but the ranger is an all new ball game.

Let me give you a really impossible situation for the necromancer to deal with:
- Necromancer died and had to respawn.
- Berserker ranger has went to necromancer’s spawn and set up camp at vantage point.
- Berserker ranger ‘pew pews!’ necromancer from full to death before he can leave the vicinity of his spawn.

There is literally nothing you can do against this unless you try to leave through a different spawn exit (in which the ranger just has to reticule you and follow you). There are no reflects we can do, no evades, no blocks, and no amount of toughness or protection will negate what they can do. This could honestly become meta – just pew pewing necromancers when they respawn.

I’m sorry when exactly did necros lose their ranged attacks? Dodge towards him, lay CC’s and condi’s on him, proceed to laugh at the ranger that didn’t bring any condi removal.

You don’t understand.

When a necromancer dies, he will have zero life force. Even if a necromancer has a little bit left, life blast does less damage when a target is further away – it’s the opposite of mesmer and ranger. Any other attacks are only 900 range which aren’t even nearly as much of a threat as 1500 ranged attacks from a powerhouse is. Also, spectral grasp has some of the worst tracking in the entire game, so you can’t even attempt to pull the target.

Let me show you 2 situations on legacy where there is no where to LoS the ranger and the ranger can keep you pinned down in your own spawn area.

.

Do you even play a necro our are you just grasping at straws to try and justify a nerf? My necro does 1200 range with ever one of its staff skills, which have the added bonus of cc’s and condi’s.

You’ll just have to fight against good rangers on a necromancer to understand.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Rapid fire is the squeaking loudly in the community see’s currently. It will probably get nerfed because it generates too much adrenaline.

This is probably either the wittiest or dumbest thing I have read all day.

I can’t make my mind up.

Good form.

Zefrost.3425:

You’ll just have to fight against good rangers to understand.

That is just it. More then most, are not good. Because everyone is jumping into it to play lazily. In my opinion, if your having trouble with more then 1 out of 10, it is your fault. I am certainly finding less then 1 out of 10 as even remotely being “good rangers”, most of them are “johnny come lately” unskilled rangers. Which makes the combat not just bearable, but easy, against them.

Zefrost.3425:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zefrost.3425:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zefrost.3425:

LCV.7245:

Honestly, Zefrost, you sound like someone who complains about ideas they don’t fully understand…

No, I understand counterplay and rock paper scissors, but power ranger is a new counter to necromancers and it’s one that can’t really be dealt with other than LoSing. Berserker stance and warriors were the counter before, but the ranger is an all new ball game.

Let me give you a really impossible situation for the necromancer to deal with:
- Necromancer died and had to respawn.
- Berserker ranger has went to necromancer’s spawn and set up camp at vantage point.
- Berserker ranger ‘pew pews!’ necromancer from full to death before he can leave the vicinity of his spawn.

There is literally nothing you can do against this unless you try to leave through a different spawn exit (in which the ranger just has to reticule you and follow you). There are no reflects we can do, no evades, no blocks, and no amount of toughness or protection will negate what they can do. This could honestly become meta – just pew pewing necromancers when they respawn.

I’m sorry when exactly did necros lose their ranged attacks? Dodge towards him, lay CC’s and condi’s on him, proceed to laugh at the ranger that didn’t bring any condi removal.

You don’t understand.

When a necromancer dies, he will have zero life force. Even if a necromancer has a little bit left, life blast does less damage when a target is further away – it’s the opposite of mesmer and ranger. Any other attacks are only 900 range which aren’t even nearly as much of a threat as 1500 ranged attacks from a powerhouse is. Also, spectral grasp has some of the worst tracking in the entire game, so you can’t even attempt to pull the target.

Let me show you 2 situations on legacy where there is no where to LoS the ranger and the ranger can keep you pinned down in your own spawn area.

.

Do you even play a necro our are you just grasping at straws to try and justify a nerf? My necro does 1200 range with ever one of its staff skills, which have the added bonus of cc’s and condi’s.

You’ll just have to fight against good rangers on a necromancer to understand.

Been there done that. Of course those rangers weren’t running full glass because they were good rangers
The full glass ones that you are having so much trouble with have been a complete joke, I don’t understand how anyone could go into pvp/WvW with 0 condi removal.