Guild Wars 2

Keep PvE separately. Every time there is a balance nerf, pve players suffers. Whatever happen to keeping pvp and pve balance separate? I think the main problem is WvW uses pve gears. WvW and Spvp should use the same build setup. They’re both pvp anyways.

WvW and PvP are very different. Saying they’re both pvp anyways…

Some people want to use their PvE gear against another player. If you don’t, then there is PvP. It’s a nice way of giving options to both types of players. Yea WvW is not nearly as balanced, but the gear is one of the lesser reasons why WvW is imbalanced (numbers and coverage > gear).

One issue I have which is actually mode-pervasive is that not enough abilities are overpowered enough. Kinda.

That is to say, if a Mesmer uses Portal, if an Engineer drops a flamethrower turret, if a Ranger drops a Snake Trap, these should all feel very significant. I sometimes wonder whether the game wouldn’t feel a lot more balanced (actually) if we had a cold-war situation in that everyone has lots of overpowered stuff which is individually so strong it can affect a fight’s outcome easily.

WvW isn’t pvp.

/25 chars

PvE players suffer? lol. So what your speed runs got cut by two and a half seconds? I’m sorry for your loss.

PvP is not PvP it’s conquest.

>WvW and Spvp should use the same build setup.

Whaaaaaaaaat~ No!
I hate the PvP mode the most because of toned down equipment options.
Choosing an amulet and some runes/sigil… Wonderful options, really.
Besides the whole thing being a cage fight that is my number 1 reason not to play pvp.

Imo, Pvp should use the normal pve gear aswell! I understand that this would be bad for those people who step into pvp at level1 and dont even touch pve. Its a great system for those guys. But come ooon, how can anyone complain about gear or levelspeed in this game, its sooo incredibly fast and everything gets thrown at you for a few copper anyway. (Which is a good thing I might add)

On another note, if I dont even have to farm for my wvw gear then there really is nothing left to do anymore…

Edit: Best option would be to make players able to choose all the gear there is in Pvp for free. All item slots and generally everything that exists in pve/wvw. Not a single amulet shrug

I will quit this game the second they would do this. I get frustrated and feel like quitting a lot of times, but this would nail that feeling down to becoming a reality. I specifically do not play sPvP all that much, because I hate how limited control I have over my stats there (and well, I find Capture the Point to be a bit stale, boring, not as entertaining). It severely hampers build options when you have such limited control over individual stats and even the ability to combine different Runes. There’s a plethora of builds that works in World vs. World, that simply are not effective what so ever for sPvP, be that because of stats, Rune combinations and/or both.

If anything, I’d rather see all PvE options available to sPvP. You have access to all stats, all Runes, everything the same way, just not food buffs or guard stacks. At least that’d help open up for a few more builds in sPvP, instead of everyone practically running around with the same boring meta builds all over the place.

Mind you, I don’t think combining such different premises makes sense. Though personally I wish they’d just axe sPvP as it’s “wasting dev time”, that’s my personal take and there’ll be enough who care as little about PvE or WvW as I do about sPvP.

But, do keep in mind that the underlying balance needed for each is completely different.

In sPvP, or more generally in small-scale PvP (where “small scale” means team size < effective number of classes, and significantly so), you are striving for a parity of power first and foremost.
As a web of countereffects cannot come into play due to team size, you need to make sure that each player is not significantly different in total power to achieve the game goal as someone else is.
Important: Nothing about this requires combat 1v1 balance or anything even remotely like it. In fact, the best such balance systems intentionally don’t try for it.

In WvW (or combat with large teams on both sides), you are instead trying to achieve a parity of contribution. Unlike sPvP, this caaaaaan be smoke&mirrors. Each player should feel like they’re actively changing the outcome of an encounter, usually via having effects which help allies defend against something they’d otherwise have no fighting chance against (compare TF2). This is what I meant above when I said “We need everything to be more overpowered”.
Each class ideally has a multitude of effects focusing on 3-4 central mechanics. These mechanics cover weaknesses of other classes who could otherwise be easily exploited for near-guaranteed wins by yet other classes, leaving everyone to depend on everyone.

In PvE, you are aiming for something similar to WvW, but framed slightly different. I tend to call it parity of scaling. Each class should be contributing as much alone as when in a group of 10 of their own class. This isn’t easy to do, and some issues cannot be avoided so generally you’ll want effects which multiply as you add more to make up for the effects which cannot stack properly.
The idea is that you make more team compositions viably by making 30 Mesmers in a zerg of 150 feel as “Mesmery” as 1 Mesmer in a team of 5. Not necessarily exactly the same, but everyone should be able to clearly tell what they’re doing and how it contributes.

(This all ignores the part where PvE first needs a better AI like what we had pre-release…)

I would love if I could get Equipment in WvW like in PvP (for free). End of that kittening Gold Grind and hello to build diversity.

MiniMe.1960:

I would love if I could get Equipment in WvW like in PvP (for free). End of that kittening Gold Grind and hello to build diversity.

But that makes no sense. I’m serious. We’re playing a RPG. My biggest issue with sPvP, and the reason I won’t touch it, is that it doesn’t feel like I play my character in it.

Considering that exotic armour is ~free at lvl80, and that ascended really adds rather little (though I do think it should add nothing), I don’t truly see the point except for upleveled characters, either. And for those I’d rather have them change the scaling so they can contribute to WvW better.

Carighan.6758:

Though personally I wish they’d just axe sPvP as it’s “wasting dev time”, that’s my personal take and there’ll be enough who care as little about PvE or WvW as I do about sPvP.

there are enough people who care about Arena pvp and your wish won’t come true.

Sagat.3285:

PvP is not PvP it’s conquest.

Conquest mode has pvp inside and many others things to care (rotations,grp comp that is not only suited to kill ppl→ mobilityand many more) , which is way more enjoyable than a tdm .

And dont think adding a TDM mode will change smthing , the best player in conquest will be the best TDM players aswell

Carighan.6758:

MiniMe.1960:

I would love if I could get Equipment in WvW like in PvP (for free). End of that kittening Gold Grind and hello to build diversity.

But that makes no sense. I’m serious. We’re playing a RPG. My biggest issue with sPvP, and the reason I won’t touch it, is that it doesn’t feel like I play my character in it.

Considering that exotic armour is ~free at lvl80, and that ascended really adds rather little (though I do think it should add nothing), I don’t truly see the point except for upleveled characters, either. And for those I’d rather have them change the scaling so they can contribute to WvW better.

I want to play competitive and try many Builds.

Superior Sigil of Generosity = 99 Gold
Superior Sigil of Bursting = 14 Gold
Superior Sigil of Torment = 13 Gold
Superior Sigil of Renewal/Bloodlust/Energy/Malice = 10 Gold
Superior Sigil of Momentum/Force = 8 Gold
Superior Sigil of Battle = 6 Gold

Superior Rune of Strenght/Exuberance/Perplexity/Hoelbrak/Tormenting/Traveler/Melandru = 7-13 Gold x6

That’s allot of Gold and the reason why I started to craft Ascendant Weapons so I can switch them within all 8 Characters.
Also, 13/14 equipped Ascendant pieces will make a bigger difference that you think.

Of course its absolutely OK that you have another opinion than I do.

Greezzz

Carighan.6758:

But that makes no sense. I’m serious. We’re playing a RPG.

Sorry to shatter this illusion for you, but modern MMOs have nothing even remotely in common with the term Role-Playing, it’s just the label that remained. Actually it’s more like MMOG than MMORPG.
Last MMO game that was playable as the MMORPG came out in 1995, but as the community changed towards a present one, this genre died with it….

Yeah I’m aware, started with M59 myself, then went EQ1, DAoC, WoW and now GW2.
But despite most elements of RPGs being thrown under the bus, I don’t think going further away from it is the right direction.

And considering that horror games for example are finally finding their path in disempowering the player, maybe MMOs will find a middle ground where they can provide meaningful mechanical RPG components at least, allowing RPG-like player specialization and player interdependence without needing everyone to be roleplaying actively (Wish tried hard here, but ofc the concept was doomed from the get-go).

Carighan.6758:

Yeah I’m aware, started with M59 myself, then went EQ1, DAoC, WoW and now GW2.
But despite most elements of RPGs being thrown under the bus, I don’t think going further away from it is the right direction. And considering that horror games for example are finally finding their path in disempowering the player, maybe MMOs will find a middle ground where they can provide meaningful mechanical RPG components at least, allowing RPG-like player specialization and player interdependence without needing everyone to be roleplaying actively (Wish tried hard here, but ofc the concept was doomed from the get-go).

You’re lucky, I already lost the hope in this matter. The majority of community nowadays forces devs to make game simpler, not more challenging – especially in the terms of RP playing. Just remember, how old is the last game where you could be just cold-blooded murderer with all the perks and disadvantages it has? Full-loot of dead players available – even though with a possible punishment?
A game which wants to be considered RPG needs elements like this, not just features “ripped” of RPG, like levelling, stats, skills, builds, some minor story choices etc… Those are just “a sauce” for the RPG.
However, a game which has the old-school RPG features can’t survive now, because it won’t get enough players to survive, RP players are almost extinct now….

No. These game modes are entirely different, and all three of them should be balanced separately.

Stand The Wall.6987:

No. These game modes are entirely different, and all three of them should be balanced separately.

This.

DrLane.5248:

Sagat.3285:

PvP is not PvP it’s conquest.

Conquest mode has pvp inside and many others things to care (rotations,grp comp that is not only suited to kill ppl-> mobilityand many more) , which is way more enjoyable than a tdm .

And dont think adding a TDM mode will change smthing , the best player in conquest will be the best TDM players aswell

It would be nice to at least have it I only dislike conquest because it limits builds diversity and is labeled the face of pvp,the courtyard was barely noticed.

The should reput jewels in pvp and put all gear to normal stats=bezerker and rampager no longer have vitality and let players have a choice to choose more vitality through another jewel.

It’d be interesting if there were 3-4 modes of sPvP, yes. Bonus points if:

• None are TDM.
• Each map supports all game formats (cannot know ahead of time what you’ll get).
• Cannot change build once the match started, only in the initial preparation.

That way, whatever build or team setup you use has to be capable for handling all modes of play.