Guild Wars 2

They are running rampant, its getting old a tiresom fighting someone with 3k+ armor 25k+ hp while dealing insane brust spikes with conidtions. You’r trying to nerf berker? look at conidtion damge frist, remove dire set.

Dire has some serious vulnerabilities…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diamond_Skin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Automated_Response

If you’re not a necro then add http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plague_Signet and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consume_Conditions as a counter as well.

In larger groups (WvW) conditions are cleansed so frequently and often that they aren’t very viable at all.

The only condition I can think of that needs tweaking is immobilize which never should have stacked in the first place. At most the highest duration one applied should take priority.

This game should never be balanced around Large stacking groups. =/

You need to understand the ANET methodology.

Users: Condi damage is too high
ANET: Sounds good. Let’s nerf direct damage.

Users: AOE are too strong
ANET: Cool story. Let’s make them even stronger

Users: Passive skills should be less powerful than active skills
ANET: Agreed. Let’s make passive skills even more powerful

Users: Too much NPC in WvW is bad
ANET: Understood. Let’s create a new map and add even more NPCs to it.

Once you understand how ANET thinks, then you can better ask them for things.

Aberrant.6749:

Dire has some serious vulnerabilities…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diamond_Skin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Automated_Response

If you’re not a necro then add http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plague_Signet and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consume_Conditions as a counter as well.

In larger groups (WvW) conditions are cleansed so frequently and often that they aren’t very viable at all.

The only condition I can think of that needs tweaking is immobilize which never should have stacked in the first place. At most the highest duration one applied should take priority.

Ahahahahahaha…Diamond Skin…good joke bro :P

Axialbloom.8109:

Aberrant.6749:

Dire has some serious vulnerabilities…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diamond_Skin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Automated_Response

If you’re not a necro then add http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plague_Signet and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consume_Conditions as a counter as well.

In larger groups (WvW) conditions are cleansed so frequently and often that they aren’t very viable at all.

The only condition I can think of that needs tweaking is immobilize which never should have stacked in the first place. At most the highest duration one applied should take priority.

Ahahahahahaha…Diamond Skin…good joke bro :P

Not a joke. It completely shuts down Dire builds. Granted, that’s all it shuts down, or even affects at all (though any condition damage necro is shut down as well due to horrid Power scaling on scepter skills).

style.6173:

You need to understand the ANET methodology.

Users: Condi damage is too high
ANET: Sounds good. Let’s nerf direct damage.

Users: AOE are too strong
ANET: Cool story. Let’s make them even stronger

Users: Passive skills should be less powerful than active skills
ANET: Agreed. Let’s make passive skills even more powerful

Users: Too much NPC in WvW is bad
ANET: Understood. Let’s create a new map and add even more NPCs to it.

Once you understand how ANET thinks, then you can better ask them for things.

So basically we should be saying;
“it’s too hard to protect your conditions”.

Phi Is Sly.1857:

They are running rampant, its getting old a tiresom fighting someone with 3k+ armor 25k+ hp while dealing insane brust spikes with conidtions. You’r trying to nerf berker? look at conidtion damge frist, remove dire set.

If someone has a condition build his goal is to survive longer than you, and kill you over time. If someone has a zerker build his goal is to kill you faster than you will kill him and as soon as possible. I do not see a problem here.

Burst spikes with conditions is only possible with many confusion stacks if you are silly enough to continue smashing 1111 at the same time. It is not like having 3k armor and being hit for 10k with eviscerate or backstab for example.

I thought this topic would be about how completely broken conditions are in PVE. Color me disappointed.

My whole issue with condis is that they kill too fast. Not exactly burst but too fast for what are supposed to be “damage over time”. I think some conditions could do with doubled duration but same damage overall and disallow stacking in intensity.

And I say this as an engi main who mainly plays with a rabid amulet and often uses incendiary burning.

Kanenas.4906:

Phi Is Sly.1857:

They are running rampant, its getting old a tiresom fighting someone with 3k+ armor 25k+ hp while dealing insane brust spikes with conidtions. You’r trying to nerf berker? look at conidtion damge frist, remove dire set.

If someone has a condition build his goal is to survive longer than you, and kill you over time. If someone has a zerker build his goal is to kill you faster than you will kill him and as soon as possible. I do not see a problem here.

Burst spikes with conditions is only possible with many confusion stacks if you are silly enough to continue smashing 1111 at the same time. It is not like having 3k armor and being hit for 10k with eviscerate or backstab for example.

Clearly you haven’t seen a condition necromancer in a while, then. They are the king of condition burst, the exact opposite of what developers have stated as their profession philosophy (attrition).

The highest I’ve been backstabbed for in 3k armor was 6k damage from a thief with 25 might clearly in berserker with all trait points in damage-dealing traits.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I thought this topic would be about how completely broken conditions are in PVE. Color me disappointed.

I thought so too. Right there with you….

the issue with pvp/wvw condi burst necro is Dumbfire.
they have found a way to get 100% condi duration (4-8s of burning) along with bleeds and poison.

Now this would not be bad if there was a way to tell when a necro will try to apply burning. with the new Dumbfire patch notes it looks like it will be applied though LB which CAN be avoided! they will no longer have the spam to win mechanic the lazy necro’s have been used to.

I would suggest that you wait until this patch to see if this is still a major problem for most classes since you will now be able to dodge Dumbfire.

Condition damage is supposed to be the counter to your 25k hp 3k armor build. That is precisely what it was meant for.

Phi Is Sly.1857:

They are running rampant, its getting old a tiresom fighting someone with 3k+ armor 25k+ hp while dealing insane brust spikes with conidtions. You’r trying to nerf berker? look at conidtion damge frist, remove dire set.

style.6173:

You need to understand the ANET methodology.
Users: Condi damage is too high
ANET: Sounds good. Let’s nerf direct damage.

You two appear to have either very little knowledge of conditions, or very little experience with them, or both. Take any given professions condition build in dire gear and then take the same professions power build in soldiers. Compare the damage, and Soldiers out damages dire by a fair bit. The only exception may be necros.

isolatedchimp.2510:

My whole issue with condis is that they kill too fast..

Based on what fact? See above

Every post I see complaining about condition DPS always appears to be completely absolved of fact, and everyone seems to exert their personal opinion as if it was remotely true.

It has already been clearly established that Soldiers gear builds out damage dire gear builds. There are many threads where players have posted damage numbers in a side by side comparison to demonstrate the fact.

Thus based on most of the complaints here, they need to nerf direct damage. That is, assuming your attempting to get the higher damage of the two nerfed. Otherwise, you need to actually be aware of which one of the two actually has more DPS then the other

Most of the complaints here are uneducated jokes. It is a mathematical fact that the 3k armor+25k hp+Direct damage does more DPS then 3k armor+25k hp+Condi damage. Perhaps before some of you spam the forums with a complaint, It might be advisable that you learn some actual facts on the subject rather then base your complaints on unfounded opinions of the times you were killed in WvW.

I wasn’t aware necros had any of these things. They’re the most common Dire users.

A major advantaged condition builds also have is that it’s dealing damage all the time (unless cleansed) while a direct damage build need to hit something for it’s effect.. So I belive in Effective Damage Dealt condition builds are better.

If now combine this tankygear + high condition dps it becomes really annoying for a powerbuild to fight.

magical giant.8650:

A major advantaged condition builds also have is that it’s dealing damage all the time (unless cleansed) while a direct damage build need to hit something for it’s effect.. So I belive in Effective Damage Dealt condition builds are better.

If now combine this tankygear + high condition dps it becomes really annoying for a powerbuild to fight.

Except that a condition build also has to hit you to have any effect. What you are experiencing when a bleed ticks on you is an attack you failed to dodge a few seconds ago. A Power build would have done that damage and more all at once.

Classic complaint. Power build hits like a truck. Condition builds are damage over time and can be nasty if you don’t cleanse them.

That is the way it is supposed to be.

Phi Is Sly.1857:

conditions are stacked faster than you can remove them.

Good. Otherwise that would be extremely silly.

coglin.1867:

Based on what fact? See above

Every post I see complaining about condition DPS always appears to be completely absolved of fact, and everyone seems to exert their personal opinion as if it was remotely true.

It has already been clearly established that Soldiers gear builds out damage dire gear builds. There are many threads where players have posted damage numbers in a side by side comparison to demonstrate the fact.

Thus based on most of the complaints here, they need to nerf direct damage. That is, assuming your attempting to get the higher damage of the two nerfed. Otherwise, you need to actually be aware of which one of the two actually has more DPS then the other

Most of the complaints here are uneducated jokes. It is a mathematical fact that the 3k armor+25k hp+Direct damage does more DPS then 3k armor+25k hp+Condi damage. Perhaps before some of you spam the forums with a complaint, It might be advisable that you learn some actual facts on the subject rather then base your complaints on unfounded opinions of the times you were killed in WvW.

I love it. Screams at people for not stating facts but then makes up a false claim to misrepresent other poster’s position. I don’t play WvW I play sPVP and my main is a mostly condi engi. I’m not here complaining to “get the higher damage of the two”. Got any more dishonest claims? But hey I guess it’s partly my fault since I didn’t realize the OP was talking about dire gear and hence WvW.

So yeah, I was talking about sPVP where direct damage is potentially lower due to crit damage being lower than in PVE and WvW. There is no dire gear in sPVP so I know whatever “mathematical comparisons” you have don’t apply to sPVP. So enlighten me if you have these mathematical facts for sPVP as well.

Also, I’m not even really asking for a nerf on conditions. The way I see it, conditions should do more damage than direct damage but over a much longer period of time. This should reward players who remove conditions right away and punish those who don’t. But the thing is that currently there aren’t a lot of condition removal but the conditions do their damage really quickly. It just doesn’t feel that much different than direct damage. Hence why I suggested that duration should be lengthened but overall damage be the same as it is currently.

I think this sums up this entire thread nicely…

It’s all about telegraphing. The vast majority of conditions are either applied through autos or though poorly telegraphed attacks, which makes dodging them far less effective. This in turn makes them have an edge over direct damage in PvP/WvW, where somewhat greater direct damage is split into several attacks that are telegraphed based on potency while conditions are spread somewhat evenly over less telegraphed attacks.

coglin.1867:

Phi Is Sly.1857:

They are running rampant, its getting old a tiresom fighting someone with 3k+ armor 25k+ hp while dealing insane brust spikes with conidtions. You’r trying to nerf berker? look at conidtion damge frist, remove dire set.

style.6173:

You need to understand the ANET methodology.
Users: Condi damage is too high
ANET: Sounds good. Let’s nerf direct damage.

You two appear to have either very little knowledge of conditions, or very little experience with them, or both. Take any given professions condition build in dire gear and then take the same professions power build in soldiers. Compare the damage, and Soldiers out damages dire by a fair bit. The only exception may be necros.

isolatedchimp.2510:

My whole issue with condis is that they kill too fast..

Based on what fact? See above

Every post I see complaining about condition DPS always appears to be completely absolved of fact, and everyone seems to exert their personal opinion as if it was remotely true.

It has already been clearly established that Soldiers gear builds out damage dire gear builds. There are many threads where players have posted damage numbers in a side by side comparison to demonstrate the fact.

Thus based on most of the complaints here, they need to nerf direct damage. That is, assuming your attempting to get the higher damage of the two nerfed. Otherwise, you need to actually be aware of which one of the two actually has more DPS then the other

Most of the complaints here are uneducated jokes. It is a mathematical fact that the 3k armor+25k hp+Direct damage does more DPS then 3k armor+25k hp+Condi damage. Perhaps before some of you spam the forums with a complaint, It might be advisable that you learn some actual facts on the subject rather then base your complaints on unfounded opinions of the times you were killed in WvW.

maybe it it outdamges them if you are hitting a dummy, but in the active, moving dodging, aegis knockdown game we are playing They basically do a lot more dmg than a power build can muster in the same time period versus an active opponent. also the dmg is completely unmitigated.

phys.7689:

coglin.1867:

Phi Is Sly.1857:

They are running rampant, its getting old a tiresom fighting someone with 3k+ armor 25k+ hp while dealing insane brust spikes with conidtions. You’r trying to nerf berker? look at conidtion damge frist, remove dire set.

style.6173:

You need to understand the ANET methodology.
Users: Condi damage is too high
ANET: Sounds good. Let’s nerf direct damage.

You two appear to have either very little knowledge of conditions, or very little experience with them, or both. Take any given professions condition build in dire gear and then take the same professions power build in soldiers. Compare the damage, and Soldiers out damages dire by a fair bit. The only exception may be necros.

isolatedchimp.2510:

My whole issue with condis is that they kill too fast..

Based on what fact? See above

Every post I see complaining about condition DPS always appears to be completely absolved of fact, and everyone seems to exert their personal opinion as if it was remotely true.

It has already been clearly established that Soldiers gear builds out damage dire gear builds. There are many threads where players have posted damage numbers in a side by side comparison to demonstrate the fact.

Thus based on most of the complaints here, they need to nerf direct damage. That is, assuming your attempting to get the higher damage of the two nerfed. Otherwise, you need to actually be aware of which one of the two actually has more DPS then the other

Most of the complaints here are uneducated jokes. It is a mathematical fact that the 3k armor+25k hp+Direct damage does more DPS then 3k armor+25k hp+Condi damage. Perhaps before some of you spam the forums with a complaint, It might be advisable that you learn some actual facts on the subject rather then base your complaints on unfounded opinions of the times you were killed in WvW.

maybe it it outdamges them if you are hitting a dummy, but in the active, moving dodging, aegis knockdown game we are playing They basically do a lot more dmg than a power build can muster in the same time period versus an active opponent. also the dmg is completely unmitigated.

It can be countered in as many ways as power, but also cleansed and never burst like power.
The “problem” is that anet have buffed condition cleanses and applications to weird levels.

A 10k crit from a backstab or evis is worth about 8-10stacks of bleeds for 10seconds or a mix between burn, bleed an posion and it cannot be cleansed, it can be healed through but so can condition damage.

For some mental reason though, people usually find dying “slowly” more annoying than getting bursted down in seconds
Conditions are more like torture while power is more like a swift execution i guess

Vuh.1328:

It can be countered in as many ways as power, but also cleansed and never burst like power.
The “problem” is that anet have buffed condition cleanses and applications to weird levels.

A 10k crit from a backstab or evis is worth about 8-10stacks of bleeds for 10seconds or a mix between burn, bleed an posion and it cannot be cleansed, it can be healed through but so can condition damage.

For some mental reason though, people usually find dying “slowly” more annoying than getting bursted down in seconds
Conditions are more like torture while power is more like a swift execution i guess

Players will only see the damage of multiple skills combined into one number bleeding/burning/poison damage in PvP and therefor conditions have to be op. That a direct damage build will deal more damage within a shorter time period doesn’t cont, because there isn’t one huge number.

Those player dont realise that you can block, dodge, … a condition, because you will still receive the damage of your old conditions. That there is no condition new applied doesn’t matter. (“you get damaged → no block” which is wrong)

Sometimes I think some people will only be satisfied, if every condition is healing them.
They want to be able to cleanse every condition at every given time, what is equivalent to “you get healed for the direct damage dealt to you the last x seconds”

theres something wrong with this thread >.>

i know for a fact that i dont win as often in duels wearing soldier gear as i do wearing dire.

so whats putting dire over the top? pizzas? how do calcs show soldiers to be more dps than dire? cuz test golems cant dodge?

when i die to condi builds its cuz i have 3+ damaging condis ticking away on me after blowing my removals… for 2k/sec for like 5 secs. what am i doing wrong? i can only dodge so often. my condi removals have 2x the cd of their attacks.

ive run in circles around a camp for 5 mins tanking 3 ptv guardians and a warrior. they literally couldnt outdps my healing turret + blasts + auto medic response. yet i have to run from a single dire necro, and often need to reset against condi mesmers, engis, and warriors. while running melandru + lemongrass.

yeah something is wrong in this thread.

insanemaniac.2456:

theres something wrong with this thread >.>

i know for a fact that i dont win as often in duels wearing soldier gear as i do wearing dire.

so whats putting dire over the top? pizzas? how do calcs show soldiers to be more dps than dire? cuz test golems cant dodge?

when i die to condi builds its cuz i have 3+ damaging condis ticking away on me after blowing my removals… for 2k/sec for like 5 secs. what am i doing wrong? i can only dodge so often. my condi removals have 2x the cd of their attacks.

ive run in circles around a camp for 5 mins tanking 3 ptv guardians and a warrior. they literally couldnt outdps my healing turret + blasts + auto medic response. yet i have to run from a single dire necro, and often need to reset against condi mesmers, engis, and warriors. while running melandru + lemongrass.

yeah something is wrong in this thread.

Eng lacks a lot of cond removal unless you’re playing HgH or AR. It’s not spread out between different traitlines… it’s all in alch. Eng is good with dealing with direct mele damage but not conds or cc. Necro hard counters eng. They can consume, give your conds back to you, or tank your direct damage and fear you multiple times. Eng V Necro can be one of the hardest fights possible because of that. That’s the problem you’re having on your eng.

If you’re playing WvW what I’ve found works against the baddie necro’s there is to crate, root, and just keep cc-ing the living kitten out of them while applying pressure. This won’t work vs any necro worth their salt (but that’s kinda rare that a necro knows what they are doing small scale in WvW tbh though).

Keep conditions strong please, i would sooner boost conditions than weaken them.

To put all this QQ into perspective :

All I need to do as elementalist to live through conditions is equip 1 utility and spec 1 talent to cleansing.

What I need to do to live through the current power/crit meta is spec the other 2 utilities and no less than 5(!!!!!!) talent points to stand any chance at all. Of course I can spec differently but then i might meet a hard-counter and get obliterated.

That leaves eles with 1 or 2 talent points and 0 utilities (just the crappy elite). Just to survive comfortably against all classes’ burst. Eles need strong necros for sure.

Just spec different if conditions kill you. I wonder if the people complaining are willing to switch their spec and food just so they can survive necros. My guess is they just don’t like it. Man up!

P Fun Daddy.1208:

It’s all about telegraphing. The vast majority of conditions are either applied through autos or though poorly telegraphed attacks, which makes dodging them far less effective. This in turn makes them have an edge over direct damage in PvP/WvW, where somewhat greater direct damage is split into several attacks that are telegraphed based on potency while conditions are spread somewhat evenly over less telegraphed attacks.

It’s a bit logical that condition are less telegraphed since you can always cleanse after you are hit so it’s fair in a way. It’s like having two chances the first one is your dodge/block/… and the other one is your cleanse.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

It’s all about telegraphing. The vast majority of conditions are either applied through autos or though poorly telegraphed attacks, which makes dodging them far less effective. This in turn makes them have an edge over direct damage in PvP/WvW, where somewhat greater direct damage is split into several attacks that are telegraphed based on potency while conditions are spread somewhat evenly over less telegraphed attacks.

This is true, i also don’t think condition players wouldn’t mind if the abilities were more telegraphed and stronger while autos being weaker, this should go for power builds aswell though.
Relying on autos as a “main” source of damage in general is quite boring

Vuh.1328:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

It’s all about telegraphing. The vast majority of conditions are either applied through autos or though poorly telegraphed attacks, which makes dodging them far less effective. This in turn makes them have an edge over direct damage in PvP/WvW, where somewhat greater direct damage is split into several attacks that are telegraphed based on potency while conditions are spread somewhat evenly over less telegraphed attacks.

This is true, i also don’t think condition players wouldn’t mind if the abilities were more telegraphed and stronger while autos being weaker, this should go for power builds aswell though.
Relying on autos as a “main” source of damage in general is quite boring

I would mind it alot. let’s say it in this scenario:
After a lot of trouble I finally managed to place my powerfull telegraphed condition attack but they were immediately cleansed by my oponents condition removal while they only procced for one second giving me 800 damage for this “powerfull” attack. Quite fair isn’kitten

Cleansing conditions is equally easy (if not easier) as applying condition so making conditions telegraphed would be highly unfair.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I thought this topic would be about how completely broken conditions are in PVE. Color me disappointed.

Same. And frankly, conditions balance out in larger PvP fights due to various sources of cleansing. So it’s mostly an issue with a game mode which honestly just needs the axe (as in, discourage 1v1 combat entirely, and even 2v2 and 3v3).

Carighan.6758:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I thought this topic would be about how completely broken conditions are in PVE. Color me disappointed.

Same. And frankly, conditions balance out in larger PvP fights due to various sources of cleansing. So it’s mostly an issue with a game mode which honestly just needs the axe (as in, discourage 1v1 combat entirely, and even 2v2 and 3v3).

This one is a about the condition problem and some other design flaws as well: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/All-Before-balancing-classes/first#post3579556

Phi Is Sly.1857:

They are running rampant, conditions are stacked faster than you can remove them. these builds sit with more hp than you, more defense than you, and the classes using them have stuiped amounts of eascpe, control, hides, clones, mobility.

Prove it. Lay out some numbers comparing power builds compared to condition builds for each class. One of two things will happen. You will see the numbers, realize how incorrect your statements are, and drop it, or you will post them and prove my point.

isolatedchimp.2510:

I love it. Screams at people for not stating facts but then makes up a false claim to misrepresent other poster’s position. I don’t play WvW I play sPVP and my main is a mostly condi engi. I’m not here complaining to “get the higher damage of the two”. Got any more dishonest claims? But hey I guess it’s partly my fault since I didn’t realize the OP was talking about dire gear and hence WvW.

I screamed? When did that happen? Dishonest claims? As I have multiple threads that very literally chart out direct damage in Soldiers gear compared to condition damage in Dire gear, I have to say I have proven my points in previous threads.

Interesting reply you make though. I simply ask you to provide a some simple damage number comparisons to support your claims, yet you chose to avoid any actual damage comparisons and make personal attacks. That in itself says a lot about your opinion of the weakness of your argument.

isolatedchimp.2510:

So yeah, I was talking about sPVP where direct damage is potentially lower due to crit damage being lower than in PVE and WvW. There is no dire gear in sPVP so I know whatever “mathematical comparisons” you have don’t apply to sPVP. So enlighten me if you have these mathematical facts for sPVP as well.

This is where you are confused my friend. First off, you never mentioned sPvP, so If your unhappy that this is not a discussion about sPvP only, well, that is your fault. I on the other hand did specify WvW in my post.

isolatedchimp.2510:

Also, I’m not even really asking for a nerf on conditions. The way I see it, conditions should do more damage than direct damage but over a much longer period of time. This should reward players who remove conditions right away and punish those who don’t. But the thing is that currently there aren’t a lot of condition removal but the conditions do their damage really quickly. It just doesn’t feel that much different than direct damage. Hence why I suggested that duration should be lengthened but overall damage be the same as it is currently.

Do we play two different games? Last time I checked, What you describe here is precisely how conditions currently work. You are mistaken about condition removal. There is a fair amount of it. The issue is, that players do not like to spec specifically for it, yet they want to complain about. To be fair, some professions lack in this area more then others.

phys.7689:

maybe it it outdamges them if you are hitting a dummy, but in the active, moving dodging, aegis knockdown game we are playing They basically do a lot more dmg than a power build can muster in the same time period versus an active opponent. also the dmg is completely unmitigated.

This post is kind of self contradicting. You do realize that “moving, dodging, aegis, knockdown” negate conditions from being applied? Both forms of damage are negated precisely in the exact same way in the perimeters your mentioning.

Sometimes I sincerely wonder if some of the games population just truly do not understand how the mechanics of the game work when I read post of this nature. The fact that this must be explained is disheartening.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

It’s all about telegraphing. The vast majority of conditions are either applied through autos or though poorly telegraphed attacks, which makes dodging them far less effective.

How are they less telegraphed? Since the Engineer was mentioned a few times, lets use them. Pistols, grenades, and bombs are the main forms of condition damage on an engi. If you do not call the lob time of grenades or the fuse time of bombs a tell, then I do not know what is.

For starters they could level the condition removals across classes. Some classes get to cleanse tons of conditions through some traits while doing other stuff they would be doing anyway, while others have to dedicate utility slots just to cleanse 1 or 2 conditions every 30-40 seconds.

Well, on telegraphing, you don’t take a damage spike from conditions, it is DOT. There is good reason why the big physical spike is telegraphed.
The counter for conditions is monitoring what is on you (they all show up) and cleansing.

Equalizing condition removal is a bad idea. Some classes are designed to get chewed up by conditions as they have all sorts of other benefits. Warriors were originally designed to be very susceptible to conditions but they also have high armor, high dps, high stats, high heals etc. Then ANet mucked up the balance making them less susceptible to condition damage.

First, let me say that I main condition engi. Have for a long while now.

A few ways that would bring down condi builds significantly would be to add diminishing returns to condi damage past the 1200-1500 point, though condi damage gained through might should not be affected to keep conditions in zerg play at least sort of viable, and not totally kill might stacking condi builds. This also wouldn’t really affect conditions in pvp, as VERY few builds reach the 1400+ mark without buffs, and condi specs are in a pretty good spot in pvp right now.

Remove/nerf the +/-40% condition duration food. Seeing as the +duration food for individual conditons is 15%, +/-10% duration seems fairly balanced. (Honestly I wouldn’t even use it at that point, I’d probably swap to 66% chance to steal life on critical hit, though the food definitely needs to be changed)

Remove dire. It’s a VERY stupid armor set. I feel tanky as hell in just Rabid (some rabid/apoth trinkets, I sit around 350 healing power)

Further nerf to the 6 bonus on perplexity, it’s still the strongest way to apply confusion in the game. The 4 bonus may need a bit of a lower ICD to compensate, though it feels strong and is sometimes picked by itself on classes such as necromancer for added condi pressure.

K U T M.4539:

Remove/nerf the +/-40% condition duration food. Seeing as the +duration food for individual conditons is 15%, +/-10% duration seems fairly balanced. (Honestly I wouldn’t even use it at that point, I’d probably swap to 66% chance to steal life on critical hit, though the food definitely needs to be changed)

Remove dire. It’s a VERY stupid armor set. I feel tanky as hell in just Rabid (some rabid/apoth trinkets, I sit around 350 healing power)

That doesn’t make any sense due to the fact that the damage numbers presented in previous threads on this topic show that in most cases, Soldiers gear out damages dire gear. More specifically, in the case of the Engineer (since you mention it), Dire gear with bombs or grenades must have 50% condition duration or better to do equivalent damage to Soldiers gear. So I am struggling to see what facts your using to support your statement. You do specifically use the term “feel” when mentioning the damage. That appears to be a common problem lately in these repeatedly popping up threads about conditions and dire gear. Frankly, it is better for everyone if we simply use proof, facts, mathematical comparison, or any form of standard metric over “feel”.

coglin.1867:

K U T M.4539:

Remove/nerf the +/-40% condition duration food. Seeing as the +duration food for individual conditons is 15%, +/-10% duration seems fairly balanced. (Honestly I wouldn’t even use it at that point, I’d probably swap to 66% chance to steal life on critical hit, though the food definitely needs to be changed)

Remove dire. It’s a VERY stupid armor set. I feel tanky as hell in just Rabid (some rabid/apoth trinkets, I sit around 350 healing power)

That doesn’t make any sense due to the fact that the damage numbers presented in previous threads on this topic show that in most cases, Soldiers gear out damages dire gear. More specifically, in the case of the Engineer (since you mention it), Dire gear with bombs or grenades must have 50% condition duration or better to do equivalent damage to Soldiers gear. So I am struggling to see what facts your using to support your statement. You do specifically use the term “feel” when mentioning the damage. That appears to be a common problem lately in these repeatedly popping up threads about conditions and dire gear. Frankly, it is better for everyone if we simply use proof, facts, mathematical comparison, or any form of standard metric over “feel”.

Please show me this vacuum where those calculations actually play out in a pvp setting, I’d love to bring my pve guardian there.

K U T M.4539:

Please show me this vacuum where those calculations actually play out in a pvp setting, I’d love to bring my pve guardian there.

Please show me where 40% condition duration food or Dire gear are in the PvP setting? Read the OP. This is not a PvP topic. Even if we assume you meant WvW, it has been established for some time now that in most cases direct damage in soldiers gear easily out damages condition builds in dire gear, your jumping in late to the game disputing the established facts. Wouldn’t that put the burden of proof on you sir?

As well, do you really feel a guardians condition damage is more then a guardians direct damage?

As for WvW, the comparison for every professions damage capability in Soldiers gear compared to Dire gear has been displayed and explained in detail in 7+ threads. If folks would stop remaking and remaking this exact thread over and over, we would not have to keep explaining those just getting into a very old discussion.

looking through this sub forum alone, I count 17 threads on this topic that have been posted on in the last 7 days.

coglin.1867:

K U T M.4539:

Please show me this vacuum where those calculations actually play out in a pvp setting, I’d love to bring my pve guardian there.

Please show me where 40% condition duration food or Dire gear are in the PvP setting? Read the OP. This is not a PvP topic. Even if we assume you meant WvW, it has been established for some time now that in most cases direct damage in soldiers gear easily out damages condition builds in dire gear, your jumping in late to the game disputing the established facts. Wouldn’t that put the burden of proof on you sir?

As well, do you really feel a guardians condition damage is more then a guardians direct damage?

As for WvW, the comparison for every professions damage capability in Soldiers gear compared to Dire gear has been displayed and explained in detail in 7+ threads. If folks would stop remaking and remaking this exact thread over and over, we would not have to keep explaining those just getting into a very old discussion.

looking through this sub forum alone, I count 17 threads on this topic that have been posted on in the last 7 days.

sPVP =/= PVP.

PLAYER VS PLAYER. WvW involves player vs player, but maybe you forgot that while pounding on doors. I even specifically stated Conditions are in a good spot in spvp, read next time.

Stop trying to start fights, and link the threads with math. There can’t possibly be math on every single build on every single profession, making any math there is inherently flawed as it leaves stuff out or assumes everyone likes to fight in vacuums, without blocks, without heal skills, and without condi removal. I looked through this entire subforum and none of them had any solid evidence as you’re suggesting. And no kitten, Dire isn’t OP on every profession.

I’m not saying that someone in full Dire will do tons of damage, but neither will someone in full soldiers. It’s the fact that a condition player who, assuming they need crit chance, can gain 2-4k health just by mixing in a few dire pieces. Power specs that utilize crits can mix in soldiers pieces for the same benefit but at a MUCH greater cost to their damage. That is what’s broken with it.

isolatedchimp.2510:

Did you not read the part where I said yes it was my fault for not stating it was sPVP and that I didn’t see the OP’s reference to WvW?

Not sure I follow you here. Perhaps your reading intent into my post that is not intended.

isolatedchimp.2510:

Second, the dishonest claims was not in reference to your stat comparisons (which I have not seen) but your strawman of losing in WvW using a power build to a condi build. But like I said before, I can forgive that since I didn’t realize this was WvW when I first posted.

Help me understand then, if you not losing to condition builds as your stating here that your not, and you have no damage comparisons that show dire gear builds out damaging power builds, why are you continuing to post about it?

isolatedchimp.2510:

I said I wished that conditions took longer to do their damage than they currently do now and you respond with “DATS HOW CONDIS WORK NAO!!” I’d like condis to do even more damage but over a longer time resulting in potentially bigger DPS than direct damage but only if they last the full duration. But I’d also like there to be more condition removal to compensate and to encourage even more active play instead of condition builds just using firing and forget type of playstyle.

That is not what you said……what you actually said was…..

conditions should do more damage than direct damage but over a much longer period of time.

You state specifically that “conditions should do more damage than direct damage”, you did not state you want condition damage to tick for longer then it does now. You said you want it to do more damage over time then direct damage. You worded it extremely poorly if you were meaning that you want condition damage to last X amount of time compared to what condition damage last for now. Yet you chose to blame anyone who takes it as you posted it………….Anyway………I don’t agree with this idea. Condition damage is already slower to stack and kill. In WvW this becomes more obvious in larger group fights, such as when you have an Engi or two standing mid ranks using fumigate, Guardians using save yourselves, warriors using shake it off and war horns, the list of misc. ele AoE cleanses, and the list goes on and on and on. Coordinated groups negate conditions down to nil as it is in WvW. I believe your suggestion would only make it worse.

K U T M.4539:

sPVP =/= PVP.

PLAYER VS PLAYER. WvW involves player vs player, but maybe you forgot that while pounding on doors. I even specifically stated Conditions are in a good spot in spvp, read next time.

WvW is a distinct game mode name. PvP is a distinct game mode name. Do not blame everyone else when they adhere to that while you use varying terms. That makes the confusion your fault, not anyone elses.

K U T M.4539:

Stop trying to start fights, and link the threads with math. There can’t possibly be math on every single build on every single profession, making any math there is inherently flawed as it leaves stuff out or assumes everyone likes to fight in vacuums, without blocks, without heal skills, and without condi removal. I looked through this entire subforum and none of them had any solid evidence as you’re suggesting. And no kitten, Dire isn’t OP on every profession.

If you agree Dire isn’t OP, then why are you attacking me for disagreeing with the OP? Apparently when someone disagrees with you, they are trying to start fights. When you make references to the wrong game mode it is everyone else fault.

You very specifically demand that they remove certain condition food, without providing any numbers. You again demand they remove a whole armor set without providing any numbers. Then you demand that I re-post existing numbers. A bit hypocritical don’t you think?

K U T M.4539:

I’m not saying that someone in full Dire will do tons of damage, but neither will someone in full soldiers. It’s the fact that a condition player who, assuming they need crit chance, can gain 2-4k health just by mixing in a few dire pieces. Power specs that utilize crits can mix in soldiers pieces for the same benefit but at a MUCH greater cost to their damage. That is what’s broken with it.

You are mistaken. If they mix in dire gear, the damage is still lesser then a power spec soldiers wearer mixing in knights gear. In both cases they swap out some health pool for critical chance. Where is the MUCH greater cost?

coglin.1867:

K U T M.4539:

sPVP =/= PVP.

PLAYER VS PLAYER. WvW involves player vs player, but maybe you forgot that while pounding on doors. I even specifically stated Conditions are in a good spot in spvp, read next time.

WvW is a distinct game mode name. PvP is a distinct game mode name. Do not blame everyone else when they adhere to that while you use varying terms. That makes the confusion your fault, not anyone elses.

K U T M.4539:

Stop trying to start fights, and link the threads with math. There can’t possibly be math on every single build on every single profession, making any math there is inherently flawed as it leaves stuff out or assumes everyone likes to fight in vacuums, without blocks, without heal skills, and without condi removal. I looked through this entire subforum and none of them had any solid evidence as you’re suggesting. And no kitten, Dire isn’t OP on every profession.

If you agree Dire isn’t OP, then why are you attacking me for disagreeing with the OP? Apparently when someone disagrees with you, they are trying to start fights. When you make references to the wrong game mode it is everyone else fault.

You very specifically demand that they remove certain condition food, without providing any numbers. You again demand they remove a whole armor set without providing any numbers. Then you demand that I re-post existing numbers. A bit hypocritical don’t you think?

K U T M.4539:

I’m not saying that someone in full Dire will do tons of damage, but neither will someone in full soldiers. It’s the fact that a condition player who, assuming they need crit chance, can gain 2-4k health just by mixing in a few dire pieces. Power specs that utilize crits can mix in soldiers pieces for the same benefit but at a MUCH greater cost to their damage. That is what’s broken with it.

You are mistaken. If they mix in dire gear, the damage is still lesser then a power spec soldiers wearer mixing in knights gear. In both cases they swap out some health pool for critical chance. Where is the MUCH greater cost?

1. sPVP =/= PVP =/= tPVP They’re parts of each other.

2. Condi food = 40% duration, 70 damage. Condi damage is 100 condi damage and 70 vit. Compare that to traits: 10 trait points = 10% duration or 100 condi damage.
i.e: Condi duration food is 4x stronger.

3. I already checked for the numbers. They’re not there, so please stop referencing them.

4. You don’t know how to min-max gear, obviously, so that discussion isn’t going to bear any fruit with you.