Condition damage needs a rework.

Condition damage needs a rework.

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Posted by: Monoman.2068

Monoman.2068

Where is the proof in that statement?

So runes of melandru doesn’t exist? Nor do runes of hoelbrak?

The same can be said bout CC and mobility. Some classes can deal with them others not.

So wait now do conditions have to rely on four stats (condi damage/crit/prec/duration)? On top of that do they have to find a way to survive against the other player so that their damage can tick, not fair.

1. Condition spam > condition removal, less tells = more meaningful connections.

2. Tell me when I can trait for it or build it to my specifications in my armor and traits.

3. I’m in no way defending those and hope they also get shaken up.

4. How is it not? condition duration is in no way a meaningful stat that introduces weaknesses in condition builds, it’s just there and lots of it can be achieved without sacrifices (aka icing). You would only have to spec condi damage/precision/crit dmg if you wanted to have better chances against opponents spec’d to counter you.

The power side of the spectrum is forced to make extremely difficult decisions between power/precision/critical dmg/toughness/vitality and so on that opens up specific builds for all sorts of weaknesses. If you want a power based version of the problem with condition damage, look no further than warriors and unsuspecting foe.

@ Lakdav:

Having vitality is dandy and all but as you said, it’s just as effective against power builds. Difference being a player can choose how much toughness they want to counter power, but there is no such stat against conditions.

Many classes can’t handle the pace of a fight with a condition class and eventually get overwhelmed for reasons outside of their control. The classes that can, have an overwhelming amount of condition removal which is in no way any better. I doubt condition damage will ever be balanced with removal since it all hinges on anet hence why I think the system should just be remade to allow each individual player to decide how hard they wish to counter each other at a cost.

I feel that your closing point is why condition damage needs a change in the first place because traits and skills like beserkers stance, diamond skin, and automated response hurts the little guy far more than the target and it will only get worse from here.

Laviere – Hybrid Wellomancer
Makonne – Hybrid Regen Ranger

(edited by Monoman.2068)

Condition damage needs a rework.

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Posted by: Rhyse.8179

Rhyse.8179

I can’t tell you how many times immobilize is the last condi to clear. And also chill. Why? Who knows. I can tell you those are the two condi’s that kill me the most, not bleed and burning.

Last on > first off. Since bleeds etc are spammed so much, being part of core DPS for many weapons, they are the most recent on and thus get cleansed off first. This is bad design and yet another reason why DPS condi’s need to be separated from CC.

I don’t so much mind bleeding burning and such, but I hate immobilize. The fact it can stack to 6 or even 10s is just stupid.

If DPS and CC condi’s were separated, then condition cleanse would work as an active counterplay against this and balance could eventually be achieved. Because everything is all lumped under the same condition mechanic though, it’s impossible to make targeted changes versus a specific issue like this. Nothing in the game will be balanced until Anet takes the plunge and splits the condition mechanic.

“I care nothing for a festering industry that wantonly refuses to
provide a service that I’m willing to purchase.” – Fortuna.7259

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Posted by: Duka.5864

Duka.5864

Thing that Gw1 was great game and devs wanted to create something even better,well they actually done to much and made it worse! Two damage sources power and cond are too much,power damage should be main source and cond damage should be for pressure!

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Posted by: Nova Stiker.8396

Nova Stiker.8396

Thing that Gw1 was great game and devs wanted to create something even better,well they actually done to much and made it worse! Two damage sources power and cond are too much, power damage should be main source and cond damage should be for pressure!

That is how it was in Guild Wars 1 and it made sense.

Look at Poison Arrow, deals no additional damage, costs 5 energy and a ELITE skill.
Seems pretty worthless, which it is all by itself.

Combined with Barbed Arrows, you got yourself a mean combo of long Poison with Bleeding that you can share across the entire enemy team.

In Guild Wars 1, power killed people, conditions killed teams.

There comes a point where the monk couldn’t outheal the damage being inflicted to everyone, everyones health is getting lower and lower and lower to a point you have to make choices to who you save.
That is where pressure plays a key role. You NEEDED pressure (unless spike build) for people to start dropping.

But conditions/hexes alone couldn’t kill people, you NEEDED power. Even a novice monk could easily out heal pure heavy pressure.
_____________________________________________________________
At some point ArenaNet combat developers kitten ed and allow conditions to kill teams AND kill people.


The one thing you need to learn is not protecting your mechanics you spent hundreds to thousands of hours working on.

I get it, it’s your baby, you love it to death but you are at a point your baby isn’t going to grow.

ArenaNet, you need to step back, look what you have and start thinking.
“If I were to change this or that. What will it add, remove and will it be fun for everyone?”
______________________________________________________________
As interesting as ideas like Thieves main handing a torch or Guardians being able to use the sword offhand.
You have to fix what you built first before building more.

(edited by Nova Stiker.8396)

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Posted by: gemboj.6203

gemboj.6203

I also see condition damage as a major problem. Trying to do some further balances without reworking conditions (hi Ranger), will probably fail as it is a core mechanics of GW2 combat, and everything is balanced around its current state. What does ArenaNet think about this? I’m bumping this thread because it has already a nice sum up of the whole problem.

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Posted by: JETWING.2759

JETWING.2759

Rabid and Settler rules now

this was in less that 10s

Attachments:

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Posted by: Bazzoong.7145

Bazzoong.7145

Rabid and Settler rules now

this was in less that 10s

I smell BS, 32 hits of torment in under 10s, really?

Condition damage needs a rework.

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Posted by: JETWING.2759

JETWING.2759

In fight did looks very fast.
Now increase fear, another conditions and raw damage

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Posted by: Aegael.6938

Aegael.6938

Rabid and Settler rules now

this was in less that 10s

I smell BS, 32 hits of torment in under 10s, really?

Torment ticks twice per second if the target is moving, and it’s a stackable condition, so it’s very possible.

Condition damage needs a rework.

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Rabid and Settler rules now

this was in less that 10s

Soo, despite a Power build would have wrecked you in half that time, condition damage is OP?

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Classes like Warrior, thief, Engineer and Necromancer simply have too much access to conditions and have conditions they really don’t need.

Necromancer – Burning
Warrior – Torment
Engineer – Confusion

On top of having TOO much access, they have it all on low cool downs and on auto attacks. Duration was never the issue, the issue was and still is the number of conditions. You can have 5+ conditions on you in seconds….

The number of cleanses simply can not keep up with the spammable conditions. its a fight cleansing will ALWAYS lose.

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Posted by: whyme.3281

whyme.3281

Rabid and Settler rules now

this was in less that 10s

I smell BS, 32 hits of torment in under 10s, really?

Torment ticks twice per second if the target is moving, and it’s a stackable condition, so it’s very possible.

With those double ticks it still last 16sec. 1 hit = 1s (for torment probably 0.5s) otherwise you would have gotten 44 stacks of torment within 10s, what is impossible.

The fight took atleast 44seconds until the point he got finished. He didnt post the build he used and maybe he stood there afk, who knows. The nekro has full life, so he did something wrong In guess.

But in the end, its not his first post of this kind and he didnt wrote his build, so it shows nothing and he is just trolling.

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Rabid and Settler rules now

this was in less that 10s

I smell BS, 32 hits of torment in under 10s, really?

Torment ticks twice per second if the target is moving, and it’s a stackable condition, so it’s very possible.

With those double ticks it still last 16sec. 1 hit = 1s (for torment probably 0.5s) otherwise you would have gotten 44 stacks of torment within 10s, what is impossible.

The fight took atleast 44seconds until the point he got finished. He didnt post the build he used and maybe he stood there afk, who knows. The nekro has full life, so he did something wrong In guess.

But in the end, its not his first post of this kind and he didnt wrote his build, so it shows nothing and he is just trolling.

32 ticks of Torment= minimum 16 seconds in the fight.
16 ticks of Poison = minimum 16 seconds in the fight
44 ticks of bleed = minimum 44 seconds in the fight

Just as a bit of extra breakdown of the above post. The claim it happened within 10 seconds is clearly false, and extremely so.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: Silhouette.5631

Silhouette.5631

Conditions need to change. First of all the fact that we don’t have condition guardians when 1/3 of their abilities are Fire related is saddening. Secondly the way condition removal works needs to be changed. There’s absolutely no control over it. It could take away a second of cripple or a minute of 25 stack bleed. I’m alright with gambling, but not on a defensive option that’s going to be forced onto me.(also the removing conditions at 10s ticks when most of them last less than that ammount of time…yeah not so useful) Thirdly Condition Removal needs to be more scattered. Right now its all heavily clustered into certain skills and traits. It should not be possible to make a build that has 0 defense against conditions. It is as integral a part of the game as basic damage or healing or regular defensive measures.
TLDR: The concept of conditions themselves needs to be reworked, that will fix most of the issues. Then we can worry about nerfing the damage

(edited by Silhouette.5631)

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Posted by: style.6173

style.6173

No, nerf the condi damage first. It is out of control.

Condition damage needs a rework.

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Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Condition-Damage-has-2-problems/first#post3707134

My best shot at leveling out the condi game for both sides is my wall of text here.

Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE

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Posted by: JETWING.2759

JETWING.2759

Rabid and Settler rules now

this was in less that 10s

I smell BS, 32 hits of torment in under 10s, really?

Torment ticks twice per second if the target is moving, and it’s a stackable condition, so it’s very possible.

With those double ticks it still last 16sec. 1 hit = 1s (for torment probably 0.5s) otherwise you would have gotten 44 stacks of torment within 10s, what is impossible.

The fight took atleast 44seconds until the point he got finished. He didnt post the build he used and maybe he stood there afk, who knows. The nekro has full life, so he did something wrong In guess.

But in the end, its not his first post of this kind and he didnt wrote his build, so it shows nothing and he is just trolling.

32 ticks of Torment= minimum 16 seconds in the fight.
16 ticks of Poison = minimum 16 seconds in the fight
44 ticks of bleed = minimum 44 seconds in the fight

Just as a bit of extra breakdown of the above post. The claim it happened within 10 seconds is clearly false, and extremely so.

Bleed, poison and torment stack in quantity.
Only burn stack in time.

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Posted by: unleashed.8679

unleashed.8679

poison and burn stack in duration (or are there any numbers in the corner of poison?)
Bleed, confusion and torment stack in quantity (there are those small numbers)

Just tested this with a guildy and I have to say, the number of hits and the damage does not represent what was dealt to him. Tried it with several skills and sometimes the number of hits got multiplied, sometimes not.

For example dhuumfire:
[build was with 0 condi damage 4% crit chance and traits were dhuumfire only. He was ele with -20% condi duration]

  • It procced 2 times for 2,2s. (—> 4 hits with 330 damage each = 1320 damage)

Death screen said:

  • he got hit 8 times for ~2,6k damage. So the damage per hit was correct but not the number of hits and the overall damage.

Blood is power made some really strange things:

  • He got hit 10 times -> death screen said 23 hits (which is totally strange)
  • 3 times 24s blood is power (2 bleeds) was applied -> death screen said 48 hits
    So sometimes the number of hits was multiplied by 2 or even more BUT the damage per tick was from all bleeds together!

My conclusion those numbers shown in the death screen are worthless, because they are bugged. If you do not trust me check it out yourself.

(edited by unleashed.8679)

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Bleed, poison and torment stack in quantity.
Only burn stack in time.

Poison stacks duration, not intensity.

Besides, all DoT’s tick simultaneously, and each stack registers as 1 hit on the death recap when it ticks. For example, 5 bleeds for 1 second will show up as 1 hit, not 5.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: gemboj.6203

gemboj.6203

I’d realle love to hear form Anet, what they think about current state of condition damage.

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Posted by: Kukchi.6173

Kukchi.6173

Conditions need a rework, the game is losing its flare more and more. In fact the current condition style game play is atrocious I recall not to long ago people whinning burst damage. But now its just condition burst. Where is the fun in that? Anet you need to rework conditions if you are going to rework crit dmg.

Human thief lvl 80 pistol dagger pistol sword cheese extreme.
Anet fix thief plz its boring now :(

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Posted by: Kukchi.6173

Kukchi.6173

I’d realle love to hear form Anet, what they think about current state of condition damage.

You wont, all the devs are doing is silently removing all posts about this.

Human thief lvl 80 pistol dagger pistol sword cheese extreme.
Anet fix thief plz its boring now :(

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Posted by: whyme.3281

whyme.3281

Conditions counter tanks, you mentioned, that people whined about burst damage, then rolled tanks, and now condition builds are there to counter them, roll a burst build and burst those condi builds down.

Overall conditions are fine as they are, there are only some small adjustments needed. Like vita instead of toughness on condi equip and change 1 or 2 skills. But in total conditions are fine and have their place in this game.

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Posted by: unleashed.8679

unleashed.8679

After you spammed in every condition thread, you started your own thread with zero content. congrats.

Most problems with the “condition meta” or “condition burst” are the players themselves, that do not understand how conditions work. And if I would say, you should write down some examples, I could bet, there will be the same, wrong assumptions against conditions like in every thread.
conditions need only one stat, conditions cant be dodged, conditions deal more damage then direct damage, …

Condition damage needs a rework.

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Posted by: unleashed.8679

unleashed.8679

Your posts were removed, because they were just spam

(edited by unleashed.8679)

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Posted by: Oozo.7856

Oozo.7856

Must fix now! This has been going on for way too long! Condition necros just destroy in organized top level GvGs.

All of the top teams stack themselves with condition necros. The only thing that determines who wins is how many condition necros they bring to the fight!

[Anonymous Defender] on Youtube
Solo & Roaming Group WvW Movies

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Posted by: Brando.1374

Brando.1374

well we used to do that lol
then orbagedon hit and we lost players.

Xxkakarot [GF] Good Fights
Dark Wizard Incar [GF] Good Fights
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot

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Posted by: Kukchi.6173

Kukchi.6173

After you spammed in every condition thread, you started your own thread with zero content. congrats.

Most problems with the “condition meta” or “condition burst” are the players themselves, that do not understand how conditions work. And if I would say, you should write down some examples, I could bet, there will be the same, wrong assumptions against conditions like in every thread.
conditions need only one stat, conditions cant be dodged, conditions deal more damage then direct damage, …

I actually had to restart my thread since it was deleted and it had a massive amounts of information.

Human thief lvl 80 pistol dagger pistol sword cheese extreme.
Anet fix thief plz its boring now :(

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Posted by: Oozo.7856

Oozo.7856

No, nerf the condi damage first. It is out of control.

Out of control condition damage making a mockery of all GvGs! No place for power builds! MUST FIX!

[Anonymous Defender] on Youtube
Solo & Roaming Group WvW Movies

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Posted by: Oozo.7856

Oozo.7856

I think you guys and VR are about the only ones that even bothered with conditions?

[Anonymous Defender] on Youtube
Solo & Roaming Group WvW Movies

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Posted by: Bombsaway.7198

Bombsaway.7198

I disagree with the solutions the OP has because I think there is a simpler answer.

The key problem is how you really have no control over what condition gets cleansed.

The solution should be a new scoring of conditions and the removal of the one that is doing the most damage. CC would be boosted slightly (and needs it with the crazy melee centric nature of the game). Big damage conditions would go away first. There would be greater value on applying a range of condition damage as it should be.

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Posted by: Brando.1374

Brando.1374

No, nerf the condi damage first. It is out of control.

spvp dps test for Necromancer

Condi http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3844048 Total of 7 skills used
Power http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3844034 Total of 4 skills used

that 11111 spam in the power build needs to be nerfed...

Xxkakarot [GF] Good Fights
Dark Wizard Incar [GF] Good Fights
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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

No, nerf the condi damage first. It is out of control.

spvp dps test for Necromancer

Condi http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3844048 Total of 7 skills used
Power http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3844034 Total of 4 skills used

that 11111 spam in the power build needs to be nerfed…

1) Condi damage is ranged and goes through protection’s damage reduction.

2) The power necro has crap for gap closers and can get kited forever.

3) The power necro goes down faster than a prom dress given he’s made of toilet paper levels of toughness.

Although I’m sure you were just being dishonest, as any thief like you would love more power necros to have around so you can farm them.

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

1) Condi damage is ranged and goes through protection’s damage reduction.

And is balanced out being lower damage and not being affected by any multipliers.

2) The power necro has crap for gap closers and can get kited forever.

Locust Swarm is the ultimate in sticking-power skills. Every necro has Dark Path which, although unreliable, is very effective.

3) The power necro goes down faster than a prom dress given he’s made of toilet paper levels of toughness.

Power necro builds life force at an average rate that is 5 times greater than condition necros and are more willing to spend time in death shroud, on top of usually having a larger pool.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

If you’re using warhorn you’re missing either boon strip or condi transfer, in which case your only cleanse is consume conditions and putrid mark.

And no, swarm aint going to stick you to anyone with a teleport who also has access to swiftness, which is most teleport or leap users like warriors, thieves, and mesmers.

Good luck building life force while CC’d to death, though. I love how you assume every necro starts every fight at 50%+ life force all the time.

There’s a reason why power necros are absent in spvp, and why necros as a roaming class in wvw suck.

Necros are a team class, and condi necro has much better aoe on top of team support and can actually scratch bunkers unlike your power necro who won’t kill a guardian or bunker ranger ever.

(edited by Zenith.7301)

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Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

1) Condi damage is ranged and goes through protection’s damage reduction.

This is a condition thread, not a necro thread. Your ridiculous claim that condition damage is all ranged is just ludicrous. Pleas at least try to offer at least some level of logic if you wish to make a counter argument. Post like this are the original problem in the first place. Though it is true that all conditions that due damage ignore protection. It is also true that conditions can be negated entirely by cleanses.

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

1) Condi damage is ranged and goes through protection’s damage reduction.

This is a condition thread, not a necro thread. Your ridiculous claim that condition damage is all ranged is just ludicrous. Pleas at least try to offer at least some level of logic if you wish to make a counter argument. Post like this are the original problem in the first place. Though it is true that all conditions that due damage ignore protection. It is also true that conditions can be negated entirely by cleanses.

Necro condi damage is all ranged. Learn to be aware of context. I quoted a guy talking about condi vs. power necro.

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Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

1) Condi damage is ranged and goes through protection’s damage reduction.

This is a condition thread, not a necro thread. Your ridiculous claim that condition damage is all ranged is just ludicrous. Pleas at least try to offer at least some level of logic if you wish to make a counter argument. Post like this are the original problem in the first place. Though it is true that all conditions that due damage ignore protection. It is also true that conditions can be negated entirely by cleanses.

Necro condi damage is all ranged. Learn to be aware of context. I quoted a guy talking about condi vs. power necro.

Actually wells are condition damage skills and only ranged if trait ed, thus they are not defaultly ranged. As well, I was clear that the context of this thread is “conditions” not “necros”, and examples were given of engineers and other condition builds. What does any of what your saying have to do with the stance you are taking of nerfing conditions, when it has been proven and established over dozens of threads for dozens of weeks that condition damage is underpowered across the board compared to direct damage?

For example, lets take this line of illogical mess here

3) The power necro goes down faster than a prom dress given he’s made of toilet paper levels of toughness.

How does this make any sense when the vids posted have gear with the same level of health and toughness?

As well as the videos and damage comparisons of soldiers gear to dire gear, both of equal levels of health and toughness, and the direct damage was congruent to the condition damage with +50% condition duration. Talk about needing to learn some context, sheesh……..

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

(edited by coglin.1867)

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

If you’re using warhorn you’re missing either boon strip or condi transfer, in which case your only cleanse is consume conditions and putrid mark.

And no, swarm aint going to stick you to anyone with a teleport who also has access to swiftness, which is most teleport or leap users like warriors, thieves, and mesmers.

Good luck building life force while CC’d to death, though. I love how you assume every necro starts every fight at 50%+ life force all the time.

There’s a reason why power necros are absent in spvp, and why necros as a roaming class in wvw suck.

Necros are a team class, and condi necro has much better aoe on top of team support and can actually scratch bunkers unlike your power necro who won’t kill a guardian or bunker ranger ever.

You do realize I main necro, right? Locust Swarm does mean you lose out on one source of condition transfer or boon stripping, but necros have access to multiple methods of doing both.

I do not assume necros start with ~50% life force. It’s one of their biggest issues in PvP right now is the fact that they need significant time to access the skills they were balanced around having as well as the defensive benefits of death shroud. However, popping Locust Swarm generates life force nicely, even when CC’d afterward. Spectral Armor (which is very commonly taken, plus Last Gasp) is also highly effective.

Locust Swarm’s cripple is very significant: 2 seconds per pulse base (3 traited with Banshee’s Wail) and stacking duration means that if they take even two pulses of the skill, they are crippled for 2 seconds beyond that, giving you a decent chance to catch up to them again (since you are moving faster as well). Leaps are reduced in distance when crippled and Swiftness isn’t enough of a boost to negate that penalty. Also, as a fun fact, Mesmers have very, very poor access to Swiftness. Arguably the worst of all classes, only getting it on one skill reliably.

Power necros are largely absent in sPvP not because they are bad, but because they lack the burst damage that Warriors and Thieves bring. In fact, most Minion Master builds are power-based. In TPvP, necros are chosen to deal with conditions because they are the best at it overall.

To everyone else: sorry for dragging this conversation further, as it is off-topic.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

1) Condi damage is ranged and goes through protection’s damage reduction.

This is a condition thread, not a necro thread. Your ridiculous claim that condition damage is all ranged is just ludicrous. Pleas at least try to offer at least some level of logic if you wish to make a counter argument. Post like this are the original problem in the first place. Though it is true that all conditions that due damage ignore protection. It is also true that conditions can be negated entirely by cleanses.

Necro condi damage is all ranged. Learn to be aware of context. I quoted a guy talking about condi vs. power necro.

Actually wells are condition damage skills and only ranged if trait ed, thus they are not defaultly ranged. As well, I was clear that the context of this thread is “conditions” not “necros”, and examples were given of engineers and other condition builds. What does any of what your saying have to do with the stance you are taking of nerfing conditions, when it has been proven and established over dozens of threads for dozens of weeks that condition damage is underpowered across the board compared to direct damage?

For example, lets take this line of illogical mess here

3) The power necro goes down faster than a prom dress given he’s made of toilet paper levels of toughness.

How does this make any sense when the vids posted have gear with the same level of health and toughness?

As well as the videos and damage comparisons of soldiers gear to dire gear, both of equal levels of health and toughness, and the direct damage was congruent to the condition damage with +50% condition duration. Talk about needing to learn some context, sheesh……..

I’m not arguing to nerf conditions…..you’re a waste of time.

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Posted by: Sizer.5632

Sizer.5632

The bigger problem imo isnt how conditions do damage its how they are applied, everything is just way too passive. I always laugh when my engy is fighting someone in spvp and they use a utility to fully cleanse thats on a 40-60s cd and a few seconds later i already have all of those condis back on them again.

And then i respec to a power rifle build or get on a power necro/ele and fight the same person in the next match and its an entirely different world, not trying to argue that power builds are so weak i would automatically lose, but it would take a lot more effort to do the same thing. Condi damage seems balanced enough but it just seems so much more about spam and procs than it is about rotations and managing cooldowns like playing a power build is.

Borolis Pass – [TOVL]
Aeneaaa – 80 engineer
Aeeneaa – 80 Ele

Condition damage needs a rework.

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Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

The bigger problem imo isnt how conditions do damage its how they are applied, everything is just way too passive. I always laugh when my engy is fighting someone in spvp and they use a utility to fully cleanse thats on a 40-60s cd and a few seconds later i already have all of those condis back on them again.

And then i respec to a power rifle build or get on a power necro/ele and fight the same person in the next match and its an entirely different world, not trying to argue that power builds are so weak i would automatically lose, but it would take a lot more effort to do the same thing. Condi damage seems balanced enough but it just seems so much more about spam and procs than it is about rotations and managing cooldowns like playing a power build is.

As it has solidly been proven that in almost all cases, that direct damage builds out damage condition builds, your post doesn’t make a lot of practical sense.

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

Condition damage needs a rework.

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

The bigger problem imo isnt how conditions do damage its how they are applied, everything is just way too passive. I always laugh when my engy is fighting someone in spvp and they use a utility to fully cleanse thats on a 40-60s cd and a few seconds later i already have all of those condis back on them again.

And?
For example with the Elixir Gun I can easily perma-condition someone, and bring a wide array. Only… what threat am I to them? If I check the direct damage on the attacks used to apply the conditions, even my measly rifle can keep up with that.

People are way too quick to point to a stack of Torment and say “Whoa, this deals 15k damage!”. What the don’t realize is that if the attack didn’t apply Torment, they’d be dead already instead of suffering from Torment.

Is the condition damage ignorable? No ofc not.
But it’s not free in addition to direct damage. It can be (there’s gear for that :P ), but then you are so glass-cannon that you better never ever get targeted.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

Condition damage needs a rework.

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Posted by: shimmerless.4560

shimmerless.4560

And no, swarm aint going to stick you to anyone with a teleport who also has access to swiftness, which is most teleport or leap users like warriors, thieves, and mesmers.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Wurm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Walk

Condition damage needs a rework.

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

And no, swarm aint going to stick you to anyone with a teleport who also has access to swiftness, which is most teleport or leap users like warriors, thieves, and mesmers.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Wurm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Walk

Poor comparisons at best to leaps/blinks, since both can only take you to a per-determined point. They both work more like personal, single-use Portals.

I still find it funny that he used Mesmers in that list, since their access to Swiftness is very poor, though they are typically packing Blink.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

Condition damage needs a rework.

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Posted by: shimmerless.4560

shimmerless.4560

And no, swarm aint going to stick you to anyone with a teleport who also has access to swiftness, which is most teleport or leap users like warriors, thieves, and mesmers.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Wurm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Walk

Poor comparisons at best to leaps/blinks, since both can only take you to a per-determined point. They both work more like personal, single-use Portals.

I still find it funny that he used Mesmers in that list, since their access to Swiftness is very poor, though they are typically packing Blink.

Those are the two strongest teleports in the game, given the way Necromancer is at the moment. When used properly you can completely guarantee a win at mid-fight since you’re impossible to peel.

Condition damage needs a rework.

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

And no, swarm aint going to stick you to anyone with a teleport who also has access to swiftness, which is most teleport or leap users like warriors, thieves, and mesmers.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Wurm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Walk

Poor comparisons at best to leaps/blinks, since both can only take you to a per-determined point. They both work more like personal, single-use Portals.

I still find it funny that he used Mesmers in that list, since their access to Swiftness is very poor, though they are typically packing Blink.

Those are the two strongest teleports in the game, given the way Necromancer is at the moment. When used properly you can completely guarantee a win at mid-fight since you’re impossible to peel.

Ummm. No. Not even close to “strongest teleports in the game”. And they are terrible (immensely so) for chasing.

Flesh Wurm: by the time you finish casting it, you’re about 300 range away from where you would teleport to, if you were chasing someone down. 40 second cooldown, 300 range teleport is pointless. Otherwise, the flesh wrum is vulnerable to being killed and is useless for catching up to someone unless they are idiots and run toward it.

Spectral Walk: Long duration Swiftness (tied for the longest in the game, in fact), but otherwise is useless for trying to catch someone. It’s handy for being tough to knock you out of a point, but for catching someone, it’s again useless unless somebody is running toward the very visible point where you activated the skill.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

Condition damage needs a rework.

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Posted by: Alex Behemoth.4952

Alex Behemoth.4952

Something that might also work is making healing power also reduce incoming condition damage. Healing power is very weak for healing right now. So making it a stat to reduce conditions might make it more attractive and at the same time weaken condition a tad.

Condition damage needs a rework.

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

And no, swarm aint going to stick you to anyone with a teleport who also has access to swiftness, which is most teleport or leap users like warriors, thieves, and mesmers.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Wurm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Walk

Poor comparisons at best to leaps/blinks, since both can only take you to a per-determined point. They both work more like personal, single-use Portals.

I still find it funny that he used Mesmers in that list, since their access to Swiftness is very poor, though they are typically packing Blink.

Those are the two strongest teleports in the game, given the way Necromancer is at the moment. When used properly you can completely guarantee a win at mid-fight since you’re impossible to peel.

Good thing most of this game’s pvp doesn’t take place in heart of the mists.