Confusion proc on Attunement / Kit / Swap
A lot of effects also trigger on weapon swap, and not just from sigils.
they already trigger confusion…
And for what reason shouldnt weapon swap?
Do you actually know how much effort it is for an enginner to beat your pathethic faceroll pro1v1 PU Mesmer build?
(edited by Kontrolle.3514)
Apart from directly targeting two classes with this change(which screams ulterior motives, like 90% of the threads here) why should it not affect weapon swap when it is the exact same thing, just on a longer cd. If anything, it should be the other way around.
Meh. This thread brings me back … Back when WvW Confusion was the big “to-do” for mass QQ, I had stated that anything that didn’t trigger an “attack” effect should’ve been considered unpunishable. This would save trouble in cases of (certain) Attunement swaps/defensively-traited dodging/most Kit manipulation. It’s also a “logical” ground rule, considering how ANet coded Confusion as an “attack punisher.”
With that in mind, I could see weapon swapping being generally “OK,” unless yer using a Sigil that generates an attack-oriented effect. (i.e. Hydro or Geomancy.)
Not to mention, if it were tightened up in the “how” of its effects, the overall effect might be able to get pulled up a notch. But, that’s a different argument entire. (Said argument being that ANet’s design of Confusion, overall … seems to have been a case of trying to put too many eggs in one basket.)
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
(edited by Advent.6193)
IMO confusion should proc on attunement & kit swapping, but not necessarily on weapon swap. Many effects trigger on attune and kit swaps, and for that reason i believe confusion should proc there.
thats my .02
thoughts?
Discuss.
Why? Attunment & kit swapping IS weapon swapping for those classes. Your stated reason of ‘many effects trigger on attune and kit swaps’ is unclear. After all, many effects trigger on weapon swaps; why shouldn’t it happen there as well?
Provide clearer reasoning please.
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IMO confusion should proc on attunement & kit swapping, but not necessarily on weapon swap. Many effects trigger on attune and kit swaps, and for that reason i believe confusion should proc there.
thats my .02
thoughts?
Discuss.
First off: Pretty sure it does trigger on all swaps. And many traited dodges, and…honestly, it triggers on way too many things, in my opinion, or too many times on some skills (I think that’s something that happens, multiple triggers on one skill – might be thinking of Retaliation).
Secondly: Many effects, huh? Let’s examine that.
Kit Swapping: Kit Refinement, Speedy Kits, and Weapon-Swap Sigils will trigger when kits are swapped.
Attunement Swapping: Arcane Fury, Elemental Attunement, and Weapon-Swap Sigils will trigger when attunements are swapped. Several other traits change effect depending on attunement.
Weapon Swapping:
Warriors can trigger Versatile Rage and Power,
Rangers can trigger Tail Wind and Furious Grip,
and Thieves can trigger Quick Pockets,
all of these in addition to Weapon-Swap Sigils.
Guardian, Necromancer and Mesmer do not have swap-traits, as far as I can tell.
So, why would confusion make sense to proc on-swap for two classes, but not on another two? Warrior and Ranger get just as many bonuses.
The only differences between weapon swapping and Kit swapping, or Attunement swapping, are the following:
Engineers have a one-second cooldown on kit-swapping, can only have two sigils. Relative strength/weakness of weapons/kits is a discussion for another time.
Elementalists have a 13-second cooldown on going back to the last attunement, and a 1.635-second cooldown on all others (which does not override the ‘last attunement’ cooldown). They can trait to increase the cooldown rate by up to 30%. They can also only have two sigils.
Relative strength/weakness of weapons/attunements is a discussion for another time.
Weapon-Swapping has a cooldown of 9 seconds, and classes that can Weapon-Swap can have up to four sigils. Warrior is capable of reducing their weapon swap time to 4 seconds, or even less with Runes of the Warrior, but cannot trigger swap-sigils more often than their own ICD allows.
This really doesn’t seem like a worthwhile change, just…well, as others have said, something that seems to have a lot to do with ulterior motives.
IMO confusion should proc on attunement & kit swapping, but not necessarily on weapon swap. Many effects trigger on attune and kit swaps, and for that reason i believe confusion should proc there.
thats my .02
thoughts?
Discuss.
Why? Attunment & kit swapping IS weapon swapping for those classes. Your stated reason of ‘many effects trigger on attune and kit swaps’ is unclear. After all, many effects trigger on weapon swaps; why shouldn’t it happen there as well?
Provide clearer reasoning please.
I didnt provide reasoning because I’m asking what people think, and i want to see and hear the arguments for and against confusion procs on swaps.
I focused more on ele and engi because they see the most benefit from swapping, and their swap effects are easiest to access. I also focused on ele and engi because they both can near-instantly swap attunements/kits and weapon swap things are more gated and far less common.
as for ulterior motives, thats lolworthy I’m trying to see what people think in here. I have more play time on elementalist than any other class. my second class in PvP is a tri-kit engineer, so I dont really stand to gain much by buffing confusion in the way that i’ve suggested . You guys are thinking about me too much, and not the question.
IMO confusion should proc on attunement & kit swapping, but not necessarily on weapon swap. Many effects trigger on attune and kit swaps, and for that reason i believe confusion should proc there.
thats my .02
thoughts?
Discuss.
Why? Attunment & kit swapping IS weapon swapping for those classes. Your stated reason of ‘many effects trigger on attune and kit swaps’ is unclear. After all, many effects trigger on weapon swaps; why shouldn’t it happen there as well?
Provide clearer reasoning please.
I didnt provide reasoning because I’m asking what people think, and i want to see and hear the arguments for and against confusion procs on swaps.
I focused more on ele and engi because they see the most benefit from swapping, and their swap effects are easiest to access. I also focused on ele and engi because they both can near-instantly swap attunements/kits and weapon swap things are more gated and far less common.
as for ulterior motives, thats lolworthy I’m trying to see what people think in here. I have more play time on elementalist than any other class. my second class in PvP is a tri-kit engineer, so I dont really stand to gain much by buffing confusion in the way that i’ve suggested . You guys are thinking about me too much, and not the question.
Sorry if I jumped the gun, its just generally when people come in a suggest nerfs that specifically target one thing in particular that no one else has really brought up, it usually is just some angry person. But now that whole mess is behind us and on to your question.
IMO it should be the other way around. While kit swapping may not be mandatory for engis, attunement swapping generally is for eles, essentially making many stacks of confusion a lockdown on them, which is terrible considering that most of their skills have longer cds to compensate for having twice as many skills. They benefit the most from swapping because swapping it hard-wired into their class, whereas some classes don’t even need to bother swapping weapons most of the time. Attunements can be switched instantly, but AFAIK, kit swapping occurs at the same speed as weapon swapping and thus can’t be done while stunned/kd. Occurring on elementalist attunements is way too far IMO and should not be a thing, kits are debatable since in theory, not all engineers use kits, but weapon swaps are far less frequent for other classes and confusion occurring on their weapon swap would not be much of an issue.
So quick summary of my stance:
Never on attunements
Probably not on kits, but if it is on kit swap it should definitely be on weapon swap.
wait… i’m not sure what OP is asking. is it a) or b) below?
a) does the OP want sigils / traits that afflict an enemy with confusion when the player swaps attunements or kits? (but not on weapon swap)
or
b) does the OP want confusion to damage an afflicted player when that player swaps attunements / kits but not when the afflicted player swaps weapons?
as for OP response above… with respect, if you’re going to ask other peoples’ opinions of your opinion, and then refuse to answer questions asking for more clarification of your thoughts, then frankly people will take insult. after all YOU are the one who suggested this thing. so YOU are responsible for the proposal, and YOU are responsible for convincing people of the merits of the proposal.
my 2 coppers? i’m against the damage from confusion proccing on swaps for 2 classes, but not on swaps for the other 6. the rules have already been set by ANET so that attunement and kit swaps = weapon swaps for game mechanics purposes (for sigils and traits) therefore conditions must treat those three swap types the same as well. if it’s to punish players for swaps, it should punish ALL players for swaps.
the question remains OP, WHY do you want to change that rule? without further commentary from you, people will simply think you are discriminating against 2 classes.
honestly, i think nobody will discuss your suggestion of confusion damaging on swaps if it doesn’t treat all swaps equally
it should punish ALL players for swaps.
the question remains OP, WHY do you want to change that rule? without further commentary from you, people will simply think you are discriminating against 2 classes.
honestly, i think nobody will discuss your suggestion of confusion damaging on swaps if it doesn’t treat all swaps equally
I’m fine with confusion procing on weapon swaps as well, and i agree that confusion should punish all players for swaps.
I wanted to center the discussion around kits and attunements, because those two classes see the greatest benefits from swapping frequently, and probably swap the most frequently as well. I wanted to consider the question from their PoV because they will be hurt the most by a change like this. A warrior, traited can swap every 5 ish seconds, where a burst elementalist (like fresh air) will swap attunements 3-4 times in that same time span.
(edited by Hamster.4861)