Guild Wars 2

After looking at my skill bar today, I decided to finally make a post about the skill Dancing Dagger. Now I myself barley use this skill as we all know the problems it has. personally, I find it overlaps with the skill sets ontop of all the problems already facing it.

S/D – Infiltrators strike. This is a gap closer and a far better one, why have Dancing Dagger. I guess you could argue you have to port back to re use infil but still.

D/D – Heartseeker. more damage, more consistent, same initiative cost, better combo finisher. Need I say more

P/D – Body Shot. Always over Dancing Dagger. 1 – 2 second immobilize with a decent projectile >> kittenty Dancing Dagger

So, what I want to see from this post is everyones ideas on how to improve/rework Dancing Dagger.

My suggestion is to remove the god kitten thing and make a new kittening skill ! This is where I want to see everyones ideas ! ! !! !!!!

I kinda like Dancing Dagger, i dont think D/D needs any buffs either.

If you just compare the best parts of a weaponset with eachother and base balance on that, all you get is an endless spiral of buffs upon buffs.

P/D might have a better immobilize, but its much harder to get Stealth. D/D has worst snare, but a much better time going into Stealth.

Its fine, certain weaponsets do something better then others, thats the point of choice. Neither is it gamebreaking if a weapon has a skill thats not so good, if the other 4 skills are good and the weapon(set) is popular as it is, the last thing you need to do is buff that set even more.
It would just make one uber-set and everyone will be compelled to use it, and it would destroy diversity.

D/D is a strong weaponset, very popular as it is. Dancing Dagger might not be the best of abilities, but its still decent and not broken. Bouncing ranged damage + cripple and a combofinisher.
A buff to nr4 would be a buff to D/D and it doesnt need buffs.

IMO, the torment on shadow strike should have been put on dancing dagger instead. It would provide a bit more pressure to the skill,

SS was pretty good before it gotten it and wouldn’t effect p/d much. It would also buff a condi d/d as it has trouble covering the bleeding stacks.
Since it kinda aoe, 1 stack per target might be alright, still applying 2 stack if it bounces back.

Make it so that it bounces off the thief if no enemy targets are available to bounce to. In a single target environment, this multiplies its damage by 3. That’s a good start.

Really depends on what you want the skill to be; high power, high condition, or high control.

Sarrs.4831:

Make it so that it bounces off the thief if no enemy targets are available to bounce to. In a single target environment, this multiplies its damage by 3. That’s a good start.

And make it give 1 might stack to you if it bounces back to you, if they do this the skill would suddenly become allot more attractive, especially with runes of strenght.

The skill is not that useless now, i use it to break ages or for a cripple if infiltrator’s strike is set to return.
The main issue it has is the slow projectile speed and it often gets obstructed by the smallest bump in the terain

foste.3098:

And make it give 1 might stack to you if it bounces back to you, if they do this the skill would suddenly become allot more attractive, especially with runes of strenght.

The skill is not that useless now, i use it to break ages or for a cripple if infiltrator’s strike is set to return.
The main issue it has is the slow projectile speed and it often gets obstructed by the smallest bump in the terain

I’m not sure. I think 1 might stack would be a bit too dependent on the rune to be valuable. I would say to possibly raise the cost to 4, then make it return 1 initiative whenever it bounces to you.

And yeah, getting obstructed in terrain is a problem. Seems to be an issue for all slow projectiles.

If they could just make it so it doesn’t shoot off in random directions or be out of range or obstructed when it shouldn’t then I would be happy.

As others have said, the main reason it is underused is because of its horrible trajectory. Half the time you throw the kitten thing it goes up into the air miles away from your target. Before changing any sort of numbers with the skill, they have to make it more reliably hit a target (especially a moving one).

This skill isn’t used because it’s a bad use of initiative in most situations.

It impacts 2 weapon sets. S/D and D/D. S/D doesn’t need this skill to be viable. D/D is lacking though.

I think best way to change this skill is to make it a 2 part skill with the first option being a block similar to the Ranger GS skill.

The 1st option block skill effect can be numerous things, but the most interesting in my mind is a 100 unit pull that deals no damage so it doesn’t break stealth and can set up Tactical Strike or Backstab.

While the block is channeling, give the player the option to use dancing dagger in its current incarnation.

In order to make an initiative based block fair it would have to not infinitely block projectiles as some other channel block skills do. At most it should block 2 projectile attacks.

Tweaks to death blossom should also be investigated to make D/D more on par with D/P and S/D

Edit:
On second thought instead of a pull I think a port to behind the blocked attacker is way more balanced than a Cc. The port should have a max distance of melee range

Shockwave.1230:

This skill isn’t used because it’s a bad use of initiative in most situations.

It impacts 2 weapon sets. S/D and D/D. S/D doesn’t need this skill to be viable. D/D is lacking though.

I think best way to change this skill is to make it a 2 part skill with the first option being a block similar to the Ranger GS skill.

The 1st option block skill effect can be numerous things, but the most interesting in my mind is a 100 unit pull that deals no damage so it doesn’t break stealth and can set up Tactical Strike or Backstab.

While the block is channeling, give the player the option to use dancing dagger in its current incarnation.

In order to make an initiative based block fair it would have to not infinitely block projectiles as some other channel block skills do. At most it should block 2 projectile attacks.

Tweaks to death blossom should also be investigated to make D/D more on par with D/P and S/D

Edit:
On second thought instead of a pull I think a port to behind the blocked attacker is way more balanced than a Cc. The port should have a max distance of melee range

I like your idea of a CC for dagger 4. Maybe throw dagger, if it hits, you then get a second skill to pull your foe to you. This creates a crowd control as well as provides diversity in the weaponsets.

A pull for thieves would be far too strong, theives are already the fastest in combat class. They don’t need more cc, they need a skill that helps against multiple foes, or in team fights. What they should do is simply buff the damage so when there is 2 or more foes the damage is palpable. Thieves certainly don’t need more help 1vs1, or with cc when they have stealth to set up skills already.

BFMV.3198:

Shockwave.1230:

This skill isn’t used because it’s a bad use of initiative in most situations.

It impacts 2 weapon sets. S/D and D/D. S/D doesn’t need this skill to be viable. D/D is lacking though.

I think best way to change this skill is to make it a 2 part skill with the first option being a block similar to the Ranger GS skill.

The 1st option block skill effect can be numerous things, but the most interesting in my mind is a 100 unit pull that deals no damage so it doesn’t break stealth and can set up Tactical Strike or Backstab.

While the block is channeling, give the player the option to use dancing dagger in its current incarnation.

In order to make an initiative based block fair it would have to not infinitely block projectiles as some other channel block skills do. At most it should block 2 projectile attacks.

Tweaks to death blossom should also be investigated to make D/D more on par with D/P and S/D

Edit:
On second thought instead of a pull I think a port to behind the blocked attacker is way more balanced than a Cc. The port should have a max distance of melee range

I like your idea of a CC for dagger 4. Maybe throw dagger, if it hits, you then get a second skill to pull your foe to you. This creates a crowd control as well as provides diversity in the weaponsets.

CC on initiative is not allowed unless it’s an 8+ initiative skill. 8 second recharge CC’s is still super frequent, that’s why I changed my mind.

Shockwave.1230:

BFMV.3198:

Shockwave.1230:

This skill isn’t used because it’s a bad use of initiative in most situations.

It impacts 2 weapon sets. S/D and D/D. S/D doesn’t need this skill to be viable. D/D is lacking though.

I think best way to change this skill is to make it a 2 part skill with the first option being a block similar to the Ranger GS skill.

The 1st option block skill effect can be numerous things, but the most interesting in my mind is a 100 unit pull that deals no damage so it doesn’t break stealth and can set up Tactical Strike or Backstab.

While the block is channeling, give the player the option to use dancing dagger in its current incarnation.

In order to make an initiative based block fair it would have to not infinitely block projectiles as some other channel block skills do. At most it should block 2 projectile attacks.

Tweaks to death blossom should also be investigated to make D/D more on par with D/P and S/D

Edit:
On second thought instead of a pull I think a port to behind the blocked attacker is way more balanced than a Cc. The port should have a max distance of melee range

I like your idea of a CC for dagger 4. Maybe throw dagger, if it hits, you then get a second skill to pull your foe to you. This creates a crowd control as well as provides diversity in the weaponsets.

CC on initiative is not allowed unless it’s an 8+ initiative skill. 8 second recharge CC’s is still super frequent, that’s why I changed my mind.

1 word. Headshot.
CC on a 4 initiative skill :P.
Plus, the dagger throw actually has to land first to chain into the pull. It wouldn’t just be a 4 initiative scorpion wire. You throw a dagger, then get to pull your foe, so its balanced fine

BFMV.3198:

Shockwave.1230:

BFMV.3198:

Shockwave.1230:

This skill isn’t used because it’s a bad use of initiative in most situations.

It impacts 2 weapon sets. S/D and D/D. S/D doesn’t need this skill to be viable. D/D is lacking though.

I think best way to change this skill is to make it a 2 part skill with the first option being a block similar to the Ranger GS skill.

The 1st option block skill effect can be numerous things, but the most interesting in my mind is a 100 unit pull that deals no damage so it doesn’t break stealth and can set up Tactical Strike or Backstab.

While the block is channeling, give the player the option to use dancing dagger in its current incarnation.

In order to make an initiative based block fair it would have to not infinitely block projectiles as some other channel block skills do. At most it should block 2 projectile attacks.

Tweaks to death blossom should also be investigated to make D/D more on par with D/P and S/D

Edit:
On second thought instead of a pull I think a port to behind the blocked attacker is way more balanced than a Cc. The port should have a max distance of melee range

I like your idea of a CC for dagger 4. Maybe throw dagger, if it hits, you then get a second skill to pull your foe to you. This creates a crowd control as well as provides diversity in the weaponsets.

CC on initiative is not allowed unless it’s an 8+ initiative skill. 8 second recharge CC’s is still super frequent, that’s why I changed my mind.

1 word. Headshot.
CC on a 4 initiative skill :P.
Plus, the dagger throw actually has to land first to chain into the pull. It wouldn’t just be a 4 initiative scorpion wire. You throw a dagger, then get to pull your foe, so its balanced fine

It’d be a fair counter arguement, if it wasn’t an interrupt only. Unless you consider interrupts to be crowd control. I consider interrupts to be a form of the idea of control, but not crowd control, as positioning isn’t impacted at all.

Shockwave.1230:

BFMV.3198:

Shockwave.1230:

BFMV.3198:

Shockwave.1230:

This skill isn’t used because it’s a bad use of initiative in most situations.

It impacts 2 weapon sets. S/D and D/D. S/D doesn’t need this skill to be viable. D/D is lacking though.

I think best way to change this skill is to make it a 2 part skill with the first option being a block similar to the Ranger GS skill.

The 1st option block skill effect can be numerous things, but the most interesting in my mind is a 100 unit pull that deals no damage so it doesn’t break stealth and can set up Tactical Strike or Backstab.

While the block is channeling, give the player the option to use dancing dagger in its current incarnation.

In order to make an initiative based block fair it would have to not infinitely block projectiles as some other channel block skills do. At most it should block 2 projectile attacks.

Tweaks to death blossom should also be investigated to make D/D more on par with D/P and S/D

Edit:
On second thought instead of a pull I think a port to behind the blocked attacker is way more balanced than a Cc. The port should have a max distance of melee range

I like your idea of a CC for dagger 4. Maybe throw dagger, if it hits, you then get a second skill to pull your foe to you. This creates a crowd control as well as provides diversity in the weaponsets.

CC on initiative is not allowed unless it’s an 8+ initiative skill. 8 second recharge CC’s is still super frequent, that’s why I changed my mind.

1 word. Headshot.
CC on a 4 initiative skill :P.
Plus, the dagger throw actually has to land first to chain into the pull. It wouldn’t just be a 4 initiative scorpion wire. You throw a dagger, then get to pull your foe, so its balanced fine

It’d be a fair counter arguement, if it wasn’t an interrupt only. Unless you consider interrupts to be crowd control. I consider interrupts to be a form of the idea of control, but not crowd control, as positioning isn’t impacted at all.

True, although I state anything that allows you to have “control” over an enemy, which an interrupt does in a way. Also the wiki states that Daze is in fact crowd control. But I can see your point.

Although you have to admit a crowd control skill or even just SOMETHING different that could be used on dagger 4 would be very nice. Currently, D/P is really the only set where every single skill is used.

Ohh and Shortbow :P

I still like the idea of this being a single target rollover skill for 2 initiative that gives your target a debuff (like warrior’s impale) that sits there for about 10 seconds (no DoT though). Activating the rollover (2 initiative, instant cast) shadowsteps you to your target and cripples them for 3-5 seconds. Small damage on both the initial hit and the shadowstep. P/D would use almost all of their skills and D/D gets a slight utility boost with a little more mobility to keep up with D/P. I don’t think it would be too powerful with CnD to have it instant cast because the total cost would be 10 initiative.

Maugetarr.6823:

I still like the idea of this being a single target rollover skill for 2 initiative that gives your target a debuff (like warrior’s impale) that sits there for about 10 seconds (no DoT though). Activating the rollover (2 initiative, instant cast) shadowsteps you to your target and cripples them for 3-5 seconds. Small damage on both the initial hit and the shadowstep. P/D would use almost all of their skills and D/D gets a slight utility boost with a little more mobility to keep up with D/P. I don’t think it would be too powerful with CnD to have it instant cast because the total cost would be 10 initiative.

Minato fan?

Lol, kidding aside, it’s a cool idea.

I would rather have it turns into Point blank skill by using Dagger Storm animation but only one spin(like some pirate NPC did).

Reversed damage back(since it only hit one time now), reversed initiative back to 4, Cripple 5s and change it to Blast Finisher, Range: 500 or 600.

Too bad Thief doesn’t even need to cripple or chase anyone when he can just port directly to him and it’s spammable. /lol

Spammable teleports? Please enlighten me.

The skill does need some work. Cripple access is honestly a great thing – being able to cut off a warrior from running away or slowing down another class which tosses cripple on you can keep you up to pace.

The skill just has no use anywhere, though. D/D stab is all about the teleport in and burst them to death with only one rotation. P/D already has the ranged advantage as well as an immobilize and simply, better things to spend init on. S/D is already maneuverable enough to simply not need it with Infil Strike granting immobilize and a high tolerance for remaining glued to one’s target.

Asking for another long range gap close would be potentially too much due to how much access thieves have to them (as much as I’d personally love a two-part teleport on this skill, it would be crazy).

I could only see some kind of reposition/CC work if it applied only to a very close range, like 300. The concept of fixed-distance gap closers is also very interesting, though (as in if your target is closer to you than max range, you travel through them and up to the skill’s max range anyway), and could act as a possibility.

Either way, I think the cripple should stay. It’s just that dancing dagger’s application is poor. It’ slow, wonky, and very difficult to land on moving/evading targets to the point where it just feels like a waste of initiative.

@DecieverX: I would think around 600 would be fair, since it would be on par in terms of distance with IS, require you to hit them ahead of time, and only cripple. It would be about as spammable as shadowstrike (same initiative total).

@ Shockwave: Would definitely wield spark/usoko’s needle in offhand (closest looking imo)