Guild Wars 2

Seeing as Warrior Adrenaline degens quicker outside of Combat, I think Death shroud should match that speed, It seems a little cheat-y fighting a Necro that has just built up their life force outside of combat by swapping skills.

I think they should increase the window of opportunity for the warrior to use adrenaline. Losing it right after you leave combat is a bit too much. Perhaps give them 10-15 s delay.

Susanoo.2586:

Seeing as Warrior Adrenaline degens quicker outside of Combat, I think Death shroud should match that speed, It seems a little cheat-y fighting a Necro that has just built up their life force outside of combat by swapping skills.

No.

Chokolata.1870:

I think they should increase the window of opportunity for the warrior to use adrenaline. Losing it right after you leave combat is a bit too much. Perhaps give them 10-15 s delay.

Yes.

i tried warrior again after the nerf and did not notice much difference really -.- your adrenaline builds ridiculously fast if anything it needs to be toned down lol! and you got more ways to build it quicker on your skills. the only dif is you cant miss switch hit with your burst, and that’s a good thing

unlucky.9285:

i tried warrior again after the nerf and did not notice much difference really -.- your adrenaline builds ridiculously fast if anything it needs to be toned down lol! and you got more ways to build it quicker on your skills. the only dif is you cant miss switch hit with your burst, and that’s a good thing

The problem is not missing a burst, that is a design choice that has made combat for Warriors several times more enjoyable…

It is the Decay hitting too quickly, killing Adrenal Surge, thus locking you right back into Healing Signet… That is, imho, not a good thing…

shouldn’t you be using that during combat anyway?

Well, yes and no(?)

Follow me on this;

I had a build theorycrafted pre-patch, which was a glassier build with a GS, required the mobility to get out of combat, heal up, and get back in… Meanwhile, you could check your statusses, such as poison and whatnot to get those cleansed…

This is sadly now not as much possible as the decay hits quicker than the standard health return gets to you…

Plus, if you want to stay in combat and heal, why bother even using Healing Surge? Healing Signet is made for that, to sustain yourself while being in combat

what you just described is just as if not more annoying then a warrior that is in my face with heal signet…. at least any skills i used that are dot do not go to waste and shoved on cd while you run off to reset the fight constantly.

different proffessions, different mechanics

and btw, u do realise that life force is sooooooooooooo much different than adrenaline right?
if u were to balance it the way u said it, then u also gotta do dis: necros regen lifeforce with every strike on enemy now instead with just few selected ones, they regen it as fat as warriors build up adrenaline..

and trust me, u dont want that..

unlucky.9285:

what you just described is just as if not more annoying then a warrior that is in my face with heal signet…. at least any skills i used that are dot do not go to waste and shoved on cd while you run off to reset the fight constantly.

I cannot believe you really…

Do you honestly want Warriors to be stuck with freaking Hambow forever or what? Because what you just did is giving a biased comment as to why you’d dislike a change in combat without even taking into consideration as to what it might do with the meta, the playability of the class, and the way combat works into several levels of this game…

Build diversity, any class wants it, not just us necromancers – it is completely ridiculous that the “Meta build” and the most boring and braindead spec for Warriors is almost becomming the only viable thing to run – as much as it is for Necromancers to run Terror…

Open your eyes for the love of myself… It is not just Necromancers suffering from not having enough diversity – even if Warriors dominated…

Yeah I agree, or well, a 6-8s delay would be enough. Just so that if you kill one enemy, then immediately target someone at range, you can still use a 3-bar skill.

While there are alternative ways of gaining life force (like the incredibly bad staff autoattack) the default manner of aquiring life force is by things dying around the necromancer, when stuff dies often the combat is mostly over.
Adrenaline is gained by attacking, which tends to happen a lot during combat.

Summary:
Life force: Gained by things dying, so after combat.
Adrenaline: Gained by attacking, so during combat.

Also the idea behind them is completely different, adrenaline is, well, adrenaline while life force must be something like STORING the life force (or souls?) of the dead to power certain spells.

Just because both use a bar doesn’t mean they are anything alike.

Although, considering only power and not what it’s supposed to represent, I wouldn’t mind life force decaying out of combat if in exchange necromancers would gain it as quickly in combat as warriors gain adrenaline; which probably wouldn’t excactly make necromancers any weaker.

Sure just change the way necros gain lifeforce so it is as easy to get as adrenaline and give necros the same mobility as a warrior.

As others said, when life force builds as easily as adrenaline, we can talk. For warriors, every hit builds adrenaline. Necros have 1 weapon skill on each MH weapon that does it and some utilities that can be traited to do it. Sometimes that weapon skill isn’t even the autoattack and is actually on like a 10 second cd.

Susanoo.2586:

Seeing as Warrior Adrenaline degens quicker outside of Combat, I think Death shroud should match that speed, It seems a little cheat-y fighting a Necro that has just built up their life force outside of combat by swapping skills.

As the two professional mechanics do not function even remotely similar, I have to disagree. Unless you offer a more reasonable justification for a change, you are going to struggle to rally posters to your cause.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Susanoo.2586:

Seeing as Warrior Adrenaline degens quicker outside of Combat, I think Death shroud should match that speed, It seems a little cheat-y fighting a Necro that has just built up their life force outside of combat by swapping skills.

As the two professional mechanics do not function even remotely similar, I have to disagree. Unless you offer a more reasonable justification for a change, you are going to struggle to rally posters to your cause.

You’d be surprised. Just look at how many warriors rallied to the whole hundred blades/rapid fire comparison.

So what you are proposing is for Elementalists to slowly lose each attunement, down to only fire, when out of combat. Thieves gaining revealed debuff when outside combat, etc. If we’re going to compare things like that, sure

“cheat-y fighting a Necro that has just built up their life force outside of combat by swapping skills”
Cheat-y? Really? …. really?
Do you know how hard it can be to build life force when you start from 0? The swapping you are referring to is minions, which die, and regen your life force. In sPvP… this is pretty much necessary in my opinion- starting with 0 life force is silly. In PvE it doesn’t matter, and in WvW, no one does it xD and even if they did it, would it really matter when a zerg rolls over you? ….so I don’t understand the problem.

HAHAHA…………. no

Susanoo.2586:

Seeing as Warrior Adrenaline degens quicker outside of Combat, I think Death shroud should match that speed, It seems a little cheat-y fighting a Necro that has just built up their life force outside of combat by swapping skills.

When LF builds as fast and as easily as adrenaline, we’ll talk.

If I understand the game’s lore correctly, life force is supposed be slowly harvested and stay with necromancer for some time, even prepared before fight – as opposed to warrior’s adrenaline. I doubt this will ever change, this is an RPG after all. Besides, the change is not even needed.

If I could build life force like warriors build adrenaline, sure. Otherwise you’re just asking to nerf the class.

The problem with Lifeforce degeneration outside of combat makes the gain Lifeforce by things dieing around the necro pointless.

Unlike adrenaline, Deathshroud and the necromancer profession as whole would need a complete rework if Anet would ever want to introduce a degeneration of Lifeforce out of combat. And given how slow balance changes are i dont see that happen until a expension hits (if we ever get one…).

But i am not saying that a complete rework of DS is a bad thing. Actually it could be a good thing for necromancers and the game in general to make DS more consistent.

But as it stands simply adding a out of combat degeneration for Lifeforce without reworking necromancers will destroy what DS is currently meant to be (a Soul reaping and storing mechanic).

Jim Hunter.6821:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Susanoo.2586:

Seeing as Warrior Adrenaline degens quicker outside of Combat, I think Death shroud should match that speed, It seems a little cheat-y fighting a Necro that has just built up their life force outside of combat by swapping skills.

As the two professional mechanics do not function even remotely similar, I have to disagree. Unless you offer a more reasonable justification for a change, you are going to struggle to rally posters to your cause.

You’d be surprised. Just look at how many warriors rallied to the whole hundred blades/rapid fire comparison.

So? That is just as backwards as this comparison, it doesn’t make it right. The warrior community will naturally rally to anything they feel will buff them. Even before they received nerfs, many, but not all, would clamor to anything they could use to try to justify more, unnecessary buffs to their profession.

The only way this discussion could even remotely be had, is if a necro could fill life force as fast as warriors can fill adrenaline. At that point though, the only discussion it would open it up to, is how necros would need some of the other very powerfully defensive options available to them, that warriors have, before you could make a reasonable comparison. At least that is my opinion.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Jim Hunter.6821:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Susanoo.2586:

Seeing as Warrior Adrenaline degens quicker outside of Combat, I think Death shroud should match that speed, It seems a little cheat-y fighting a Necro that has just built up their life force outside of combat by swapping skills.

As the two professional mechanics do not function even remotely similar, I have to disagree. Unless you offer a more reasonable justification for a change, you are going to struggle to rally posters to your cause.

You’d be surprised. Just look at how many warriors rallied to the whole hundred blades/rapid fire comparison.

So? That is just as backwards as this comparison, it doesn’t make it right. The warrior community will naturally rally to anything they feel will buff them. Even before they received nerfs, many, but not all, would clamor to anything they could use to try to justify more, unnecessary buffs to their profession.

The only way this discussion could even remotely be had, is if a necro could fill life force as fast as warriors can fill adrenaline. At that point though, the only discussion it would open it up to, is how necros would need some of the other very powerfully defensive options available to them, that warriors have, before you could make a reasonable comparison. At least that is my opinion.

I wasn’t arguing it was justified, I was just saying it wouldn’t shock me to see warriors grasping on to this straw for all the reasons you just mentioned. Warriors have been so brain dead easy to play for so long that their first reaction seems to be to cry nerf rather than adapt.

These warrior responses…is this what it’s like when Gods become mortal?/jk

I did make and try out a warrior for a bit and even as a Necro main who LOSES LIFE FORCE JUST BY BEING IN DEATH SHROUD AS WELL AS SKILLS DRAINING LIFE FORCE, the Adrenaline drain is horrible.

I have no idea how it was before (I assume from the forums that it was mainly permanent and basically never actually drained), but as it is now, it’s almost irrelevant in combat.

drtoszi.2967:

These warrior responses…is this what it’s like when Gods become mortal?/jk

I did make and try out a warrior for a bit and even as a Necro main who LOSES LIFE FORCE JUST BY BEING IN DEATH SHROUD AS WELL AS SKILLS DRAINING LIFE FORCE, the Adrenaline drain is horrible.

I have no idea how it was before (I assume from the forums that it was mainly permanent and basically never actually drained), but as it is now, it’s almost irrelevant in combat.

What profession were you fighting? What adrenaline increasing traits were you using in your build? What build were you using for that matter? How many hours did you spend on your warrior at level 80?

drtoszi.2967:

These warrior responses…is this what it’s like when Gods become mortal?/jk

I did make and try out a warrior for a bit and even as a Necro main who LOSES LIFE FORCE JUST BY BEING IN DEATH SHROUD AS WELL AS SKILLS DRAINING LIFE FORCE, the Adrenaline drain is horrible.

I have no idea how it was before (I assume from the forums that it was mainly permanent and basically never actually drained), but as it is now, it’s almost irrelevant in combat.

1. No skill use drains life force, only the natural degeneration and incoming damage reduce life force.

2. Adrenaline did drain, but it took like a minute of being out of combat for it to do so. You were usually back in combat well before then. This was a bit ridiculous, really. It needed to get nerfed, though this recent patch does seem to have gone overboard. Now Warriors effectively don’t get their class mechanic in PvE until ~level 15, when enemies might live long enough to let you build a full bar of adrenaline and still have an opportunity to use a burst skill.

“1. No skill use drains life force, only the natural degeneration and incoming damage reduce life force.”

I somehow had it in my head the whole time that Life Blast, at least, drained some LF on top of the constant drain and incoming damage. Weird, maybe it was something that I heard that stayed with me. I never stayed in DS long enough to test this, so I just didn’t notice.

“What profession were you fighting? What adrenaline increasing traits were you using in your build? What build were you using for that matter? How many hours did you spend on your warrior at level 80?”

I said I made one to try, so at most I made it to level 11 post patch. However, even without any traits it just seemed so kitten fast. I fought a mob, made half a bar, and lost it before I took a few steps away. It needed work, but this is a bit of a hack job.

I dunno, maybe they intended it for being used against bosses only?? Anet doesn’t make sense sometimes.

All said and returning to the topic at hand: Adrenaline and Death Shroud are just so incomparable. Let’s start with the fact that DS drains in use, depletes when taking damage and has a cooldown. Let’s also mention losing your utilities, Elite, and once you leave it your HP is still the same (outside of using a trait slot for DS healing) if you used it as a panic button. Also, not as easy to build up.

skills do drain lf in deathshroud

I think it both decays a little bit too quickly, and decaying immediately on leaving combat is a bit much.

Either slightly knocking down the adren loss rate from 2 to 1 per second (at least i think 2/sec is the current rate) or giving 5-10 seconds leeway after leaving combat would make it feel a lot better.

unlucky.9285:

skills do drain lf in deathshroud

I don’t know where this rumor started, but I assure you, they do not. The only drain you get from using skills in death shroud is the natural drain for being in death shroud long enough to cast the skill.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

unlucky.9285:

skills do drain lf in deathshroud

I don’t know where this rumor started, but I assure you, they do not. The only drain you get from using skills in death shroud is the natural drain for being in death shroud long enough to cast the skill.

Well technically DS4 drains Lifeforce into the necromancer but that is not a negative one.^^

Life force isn’t Adrenaline.

Life force for Necromancers is like Healing Signet for Warriors, it just accumulates over time instead of ticking for a little constantly.

Adrenaline is better equated to their minion-oh hey look MM got a nerf

kitten it why not.. not much to mess up on the class anways..

You need to understand most neco players including myself would love that.

Let me explain. Warriors who do insane damage with no effort got a small nerf where they need a few seconds in combat to build that adreneline. Then lose it. While it takes necromancer a lot longer to fill there bar. If they changed it to it degenerate over time it would mean it would need to fill faster. This would mean we could enter fights without death shroud and an empty bar and within a couple seconds fill it and actually use it more often. This would be a huge buff for us.

Also please visit the below link and read on the warrior.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/

The longer a warrior stays in combat the stronger they become. This was anets words from before release. I don’t think they actually intended on making the warrior have extra damage for doing nothing.

warrior is not a necromancer,
if you want to play this game then we could list all of the warrior skills that are ridiculously above the competition,

Wells have 40s cooldown, lets give Combustive shot a 40s cooldown.
Signet of vampirism requires you to get hit to heal, lets make healing signet require you to get hit to heal.
hundred blades deals 20k dmg, lets make necro axe #2 deal 20k damage.

you can’t compare them…

warrior is not necromancer,
adrenaline is not life force.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Susanoo.2586:

Seeing as Warrior Adrenaline degens quicker outside of Combat, I think Death shroud should match that speed, It seems a little cheat-y fighting a Necro that has just built up their life force outside of combat by swapping skills.

No.

Chokolata.1870:

I think they should increase the window of opportunity for the warrior to use adrenaline. Losing it right after you leave combat is a bit too much. Perhaps give them 10-15 s delay.

Yes.

Yes

Failed topic. Adrenaline =/= DS

No Adrenaline isn t the same as Death Shroud. We can t build Life Force as fast as warriors build adrenaline. Also DS is made to put us in combat, we can t use mobilty to leave.

It is not exactly easy to leave combat with the intent to get back in right away. Not sure there is functionally much difference in having adrenaline degen or empty when leaving combat.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Failed topic. Adrenaline =/= DS

Holl.3109:

HAHAHA…………. no

^

during a fight a necro unless they are built for ds generates very little life force . and this would be a nerf to the class overall because their skills in ds are limited . the compensation for this idea would have to be increased effectiveness of the listed skills to begin with like a 5 second fear pbaoe , a 1500 ranged skill 2 and faster speed for teleport with break stun , condi damage from malice would need to be increased , and skill 1 attack would have to faster is projectile , nothing to insane but something to compensate it , other than that i don’t like the watered down version of you idea

Someone got upset by necro’s laughing and decided to nerf DS CD.

OP wins.

hahahahahahahaaaaa.aaaagahahahahahahahahah…… ha..snif..starts crying

sure man, play necro for more then 10 minutes and say that again. or you could get good and adapt, not that any adaption is necessary cuz adren builds up way the kitten faster then DS.

I agree death shroud should degen out of combat. When we make this change can we also consider;

1) Giving necro a block-we have none.
2) giving them an evade on use skill-we have none.
3) giving them a leap finisher, that can also act as a escape-we have none.
4) giving a mobility boost-we have none.
5)giving a reflect skill-we have none.
6) giving us an aura effect-we have none.
7) more easily acessible stability-we have 3 seconds at grandmaster level only.
8)Giving us more user friendly blast finishers-we have one.
9)giving us combo fields. We have only one type.

Now, what were we saying about life force should degen OOC..

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

9)giving us combo fields. We have only one type.

We got four ._.

Light – Well of Blood
Dark – Well of Suffering – and all the others actually
Poison – Chillblains
Ethereal – Spectral Wall

GoogleBrandon.5073:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

9)giving us combo fields. We have only one type.

We got four ._.

Light – Well of Blood
Dark – Well of Suffering – and all the others actually
Poison – Chillblains
Ethereal – Spectral Wall

CPC is a poison field as well.

I’m playing a warrior, pvping a lot.
I have no problem building full 3 bars of adrenaline from 0.

If OP does have problem building adrenaline, then maybe Warrior is too hard to play for OP.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

9)giving us combo fields. We have only one type.

We got four ._.

Light – Well of Blood
Dark – Well of Suffering – and all the others actually
Poison – Chillblains
Ethereal – Spectral Wall

CPC is a poison field as well.

Upon rereading i didn’t make it very clear, I meant method of application pardon me. However I did forget about spectral wall. Ty for clarification.