Guild Wars 2

As it stands Deathshroud is the only mechanic in this game that prevents 100% healing, apart from the down state (where it most surely came from since ds used to be the down state of necros) and unholy sanctuary.

The reason for this is often stated that a necromancer would be unkillable and as such it would be op. While this may be a good reason, it is bad, not from a balance standpoint, but from a standpoint how certain necromancer mechanics work (mainly life siphon).

Since gw1, necros used blood magic and this involves mainly life leaching. However most necros sit in ds for a longer time (specially dagger, the main blood magic weapon, necros since they have a high lf generation) and because of no healing in ds life leach is partly useless while ds.

So i wonder why should i ever go into a traitline, which works against the prime profession mechanic of necromancer, while the other traitlines always work.

Because of that, i think, ds (or the blood magic tree) need to be changed in such a way, that it isnt punishing to trait into blood magic. Certainly allowing healing or atleast the heals from lifesiphoning in ds would solve this problem. And if this is op (though i am not sure if this even is true) maybe an other solution is possible.

But as it stands, blood magic plus the current ds is rather pointless and counterproductive and needs a change.

I think the first big step is just making life siphoning work period. Then we can do things like introducing traits that allow it to work through DS, or maybe making specific healing mechanics (mainly self-traited ones) work through DS.

Truthfully, that is the biggest weakness of Necromancer design right now: using the class mechanic turns traits off. If that got fixed and siphons, you know, actually siphoned health instead of trait points, I feel necros would be in a pretty good spot..

As it stands Deathshroud is the only mechanic in this game that prevents 100% healing, apart from the down state (where it most surely came from since ds used to be the down state of necros) and unholy sanctuary.

actually soem forms of healing work in downedstate^^ for example the new spite trait heals you while downed

Bhawb.7408:

I think the first big step is just making life siphoning work period. Then we can do things like introducing traits that allow it to work through DS, or maybe making specific healing mechanics (mainly self-traited ones) work through DS.

I think that healing mechanics work through DS will balance out the abysmal healing. Unholy sacrifice is a good trait. It just needs some little help.

IMO a lot of necromancers problems would be fixed by having life siphons tweaked, and allowing life siphons to work while in DS. But keeping all outside sources of healing from working in DS.

Either that or have life siphons convert to LF generation at some ratio while in DS. IE. vampiric precision generating some small amount of LF per crit. In fact perhaps all outside heals could be converting to LF generation at a point per exchange ratio. Likely a lowish one. So that other classes arent completely wasting heals on us.

Or if all that is too unappealing how about something FAR out there. Like a reversal of sorts. For example. A trait that causes Boons and Heals from outside sources to no longer work on necros in DS, because they are converted into conditions and sent through life blast to your current target.

There are lots of ways to use life siphon, DS, or convert heals so they arent completely wasted and our class mechanic becomes more intriguing and useful

Blackmoa.3186:

As it stands Deathshroud is the only mechanic in this game that prevents 100% healing, apart from the down state (where it most surely came from since ds used to be the down state of necros) and unholy sanctuary.

actually soem forms of healing work in downedstate^^ for example the new spite trait heals you while downed

Really the spite trait heals while in downed state? I think this is more like a bug than intended unlike things like elixir R.

Bhawb.7408:

I think the first big step is just making life siphoning work period. Then we can do things like introducing traits that allow it to work through DS, or maybe making specific healing mechanics (mainly self-traited ones) work through DS.

i still think it should be the other way around. it’s better to make lifesteal work in DS by default and then adjust the numbers/scaling instead of buffing lifesteal first and then having to balance it again for death shroud.

RashanDale.3609:

i still think it should be the other way around. it’s better to make lifesteal work in DS by default and then adjust the numbers/scaling instead of buffing lifesteal first and then having to balance it again for death shroud.

Fair point.

This is one of those thin line topics where all it would take is for the maths to be slightly off and its either useless like Unholy Sanctuary or way too overpowered as we can constantly keep our health topped up.

I wouldn’t mind if they added a trait like Unholy Sanctuary that allowed you to heal yourself via siphons. But at the cost of each heal received counts towards a certain percentage of that heal depleting your life force. That way it gives you a choice, you can have healing in DS but the more you heal for the quicker you deplete your life force bar.

I think that way it will balance itself out without having to tweak the numbers too much and without making siphons anymore useless when you’re not in DS. I know I would happily give up a portion of my life force if it meant that my siphons actually healed me within DS.

The thing is I think necro is in a place where they need to gamble and risk making them op for a bit. Its the only way the class is going to improve.

Look at what happened with condi. They added dhuumfire, condi pressure went way up. They nerfed condi. Now its in a decent place with a decent change to dhuumfire. They need to take the same risk with siphons and power builds. Not taking a risk and keeping the class where it is doesnt solve anything.

as a power necro i put points in the blood magic tree for the extra damage,
not really for the healing (though it does help when you’re out of deathshroud)

spoj.9672:

Look at what happened with condi. They added dhuumfire, condi pressure went way up. They nerfed condi. Now its in a decent place with a decent change to dhuumfire. They need to take the same risk with siphons and power builds. Not taking a risk and keeping the class where it is doesnt solve anything.

Except condi isn’t in that good of a place. They added Dhuumfire, nerfed our damage, then took dhuumfire away and left us with the nerfs. If you’re an amazing player you can do it, but without basically perfect play you don’t do enough.

Scarran.9845:

This is one of those thin line topics where all it would take is for the maths to be slightly off and its either useless like Unholy Sanctuary or way too overpowered as we can constantly keep our health topped up.

People always say this, but until they actually test it we won’t know. Your saying that it is your opinion, based of no factual statistics or data from this game because siphons have always been terrible, is that siphons are set up to be either op or useless. I personally can’t see how that is true, there is always a decent sized middle ground, and most traits sit in that middle ground.

Bhawb.7408:

spoj.9672:

Look at what happened with condi. They added dhuumfire, condi pressure went way up. They nerfed condi. Now its in a decent place with a decent change to dhuumfire. They need to take the same risk with siphons and power builds. Not taking a risk and keeping the class where it is doesnt solve anything.

Except condi isn’t in that good of a place. They added Dhuumfire, nerfed our damage, then took dhuumfire away and left us with the nerfs. If you’re an amazing player you can do it, but without basically perfect play you don’t do enough.

I mean the condi pressure is in a good place. It could maybe do with a few reverts on the bleeds. But the main issue with condi now is the same for any necro; can be focused out of the game.

They need to risk giving us much more survivability and then see how much they need to nerf from there.

I honestly wish they’d just go ahead and GW1 this game and throw like another 100 skills and some traits at the game and use that to balance us out instead of trying to do 8% buffs and nerfs every 3 months.

But ya I guess I agree. Risking it a bit along with a quick follow up if needed would be fine, and if they don’t do too much in one patch it wouldn’t risk too much either.

Yeah im just annoyed that things arent really going anywhere. I mean they added 5 new grandmaster traits with the feature patch and not a single one helped necro in high end pve. The only decent trait was a pvp/wvw trait. Necro is in pretty much the same place even with 5 new traits and some balance tweaks. Things need to be shaken up for all classes. Its really getting boring at the moment.

zapv.8051:

People always say this, but until they actually test it we won’t know. Your saying that it is your opinion, based of no factual statistics or data from this game because siphons have always been terrible, is that siphons are set up to be either op or useless. I personally can’t see how that is true, there is always a decent sized middle ground, and most traits sit in that middle ground.

You’re misunderstanding what I was actually trying to say. I never said that it could only be overpowered or useless, you seen that sentence and jumped on it like a dog with a bone. What I did infact say was that its a thin line and all it would take is for the maths to be slightly off and then it would fall into one of those two categories.

If you deal with any mathematical equation if you do it wrong your either going to be higher or lower than the correct value. I never said that they won’t ever get it right or that they shouldn’t implement it but if it is done then initially I feel it is going to fall into one of the two categories of underpowered or overpowered. This is because there is so many different aspects of playing Necro and alot of different traits that can influence how useful or how bad a Siphon is if you make it work within DS.

I would happily be wrong and admit humble pie if they added it and the numbers where bang on but going from past experience in this game I am very doubtful of that. Any siphons added or altered have always been edged on the side of caution, but I do believe something needs to be done to make siphons viable not just for our class but for other classes also.

They just need to give necros are couple of leap options and be done with it then they will be like every other class. Right now they are expected to be this super tanking class with no mobility. They got the no mobility part right but the amount they tank doesn’t not make up for the lack of mobility.

Ljiona.9142:

They just need to give necros are couple of leap options and be done with it then they will be like every other class. Right now they are expected to be this super tanking class with no mobility. They got the no mobility part right but the amount they tank doesn’t not make up for the lack of mobility.

No, fixing the core prefession mechanic, so that a important sustain option of the game, namely healing, and more so the bloodmagic tree are not useless in combination with said core profession mechanic, is more important than giving a profession mobility that isnt suposed to be that mobile.

It is quite sad, i quite like to play necro beause of DS, since the concept and the 1-5 skills of DS are amazing. But at the same time, i hate DS, because it makes me feel that i only waste points if i go in bloodmagic and i dislike that proc sigils/runes/food for lifeleach or selfheal (since they can trigger in DS and waste the healing part) become partiel useless. And on top of it, DS feels so inconsistent given how big of a difference a full or empty lf bar can make, especially for condi necros, who have terrible lf generation, though i could live with that (but some necros say it causes a lot of problems in high end pvp, so i dont know…).

Ljiona.9142:

They just need to give necros are couple of leap options and be done with it then they will be like every other class. Right now they are expected to be this super tanking class with no mobility. They got the no mobility part right but the amount they tank doesn’t not make up for the lack of mobility.

This build makes up for it.

runeblade.7514:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEl4SRcsdVI

This build makes up for it.

Reminds me of a build I’ve been working on: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fRIQRAod7Yjc0DtW6rer9Uznerxf/3T8LUSPDBQ7OdPkDvLVfBA-TRTAABa8AAmSJTtKBJS9HAOIATfCAWVDSEm/cV5kqaG44IAUjeAb2fgUAOtMC-e

runeblade.7514:

Ljiona.9142:

They just need to give necros are couple of leap options and be done with it then they will be like every other class. Right now they are expected to be this super tanking class with no mobility. They got the no mobility part right but the amount they tank doesn’t not make up for the lack of mobility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEl4SRcsdVI

This build makes up for it.

I still would prefer a bunker guardian over a bunker necromancer, since they bring more group support. But thats besides the point.
My point essentially was, that an important part as healing shouldnt be completely negated by a profession mechanic, and if be any chance it would make the necro too tanky simply ajust the numbers.
In that sense i hope Anet considers to iterate DS more, to make it so that healing is not pointless in DS.

Implementing spear and tridents on land would way improve necros. A.1200 ranged condi weapon and a power weapon with a leap.

I would.much rather see life force used for.something else besides DS, like damage boost for a period of time, or a boost the life siphoning, all costing Life force.

Is healing was aloud to happen in DS I’d say it would have to be at around 60% or so. And heal your health not get you more life force.

In one of.my builds I only pop DS as. Buffer for big damage or to wait on healing cooldown.

alamore.1974:

Is healing was aloud to happen in DS I’d say it would have to be at around 60% or so. And heal your health not get you more life force.

I would fine with that. I dont care if it is only reduced healing but it alteast should have some effect.

Your self-traited healing should work regardless, imo. No other profession hard-counters their own mechanics like this.

I’m all for giving healing in DS, but recently I’m seeing one potential obstacle:
the blood fiend. While it is not the best healing skill , I think it can cause quite some problems.

Tim.6450:

I’m all for giving healing in DS, but recently I’m seeing one potential obstacle:
the blood fiend. While it is not the best healing skill , I think it can cause quite some problems.

Less of an issue than Well of Blood would be, really. The over-time healing is fairly low even for a passive heal, not to mention that a single miss is 3 seconds worth of healing gone, and it can be killed (with no way to activate the heal while in DS).

At the least, traited self-healing needs to work in DS. Things like life steal. My traits should not be countered by my main defensive mechanic, even if other sources of healing don’t work.

If they are going to allow us to heal in DS i’m unsure whether having our main heals is the way to go. I think at the very least siphons should work within DS or id even take SoV passive and active life siphon actually heal you when you’re in DS it might even make it useful altho the jury is out on that one.

Right now our best method of survival negates any siphons that we have which is counterproductive to taking them. Or if you do take them you dance around the fringes hoping that nothing spots you so that you can get the most benefit out of the siphons.