Guild Wars 2

Lyssa runes nerfed as well, should get a mention here as well. Since that hits a lot of Warriors/Thiefs really hard too. They now only remove 5 conditions to buffs.

15.4.14 is going to hit Warriors/Thiefs really hard with lots of nerfs and of course crit dam % nerfed on top of all that!

FeelsAlright.5860:

1 initiative increase on pistolwhip…. you’ll stilil be able to spam the kitten out of it. why can’t you just remove the stun… no one rooted skill in the game stuns like that. make it take some kitten skill

It takes skill to avoid pw, you can’t sit there and use A & D to turn in a fight. I’m sorry if your mobility is lacking but pw is about as telegraphed as CnD and should not give anyone issues, even if they use haste. For pw to do any decent damage, they have to give up a lot of defenses, hope you can put that puzzle together.

Meglobob.8620:

Lyssa runes nerfed as well, should get a mention here as well. Since that hits a lot of Warriors/Thiefs really hard too. They now only remove 5 conditions to buffs.

15.4.14 is going to hit Warriors/Thiefs really hard with lots of nerfs and of course crit dam % nerfed on top of all that!

Worst part is that its a conversion change, which means we can’t use lyssa for reliable stability anymore…. sigh Atleast we got assassin’s equilibrium LOL

Nike.2631:

If its screwing “every engineer” that tells you right away the trait is too powerful/over-selected. There are 10 grandmaster traits per profession. If ANY grandmaster trait is being used by more than about 40-45% of the class population, there’s something seriously out of whack…

If that’s your reasoning then I assume we can expect nerfs to deceptive evasion, cleansing ire, prismatic understanding, pure of voice, monks focus? Shall I go on…

I have not figured out how to quote properly so sorry about the lack of proper site usage

What kind of hambow was running impale?

One important thing I want to shout out here: Why we haven’t discuss about this change before?!

There are lots of ways to make this trait usuful, but not overpowered, and instead you’re just simply destroying it. If you were about make it designed almost the same way either narrow it down to damaging conditions and change threshold to 33% or make it active.

I understand you want to nerf decap engi, but I’m afraid you’ll destroy it completly instead of nerfing it. That’s pretty bad decision, dumbing down whole play.

MonMalthias.4763:

Having said that, I am unhappy with this change. First of all, this change does not address the underlying issue that Engineers have with the current meta, which is extremely poor active Condition removal outside of CF409 and Elixirs. There is practically nothing outside of the Alchemy line for Condition removal and Engineers are now approaching the point of the post December 10th Elementalist where trait-based condition mitigation is virtually absent – only, Engineers also lack strong condition removal tools in their Utilities.

This is an unintended consequence of the Kit Refinement rework that also eliminated 2 key condition removals for the Engineer – Cleansing Fire for the Flamethrower Kit and Super Elixir for Elixir Gun.

There was also a small, but significant change to Transmute that removed the RNG aspect of it, but kept Transmute’s passive nature and nerfed its maximum potential. There is no excuse for such passives in the game.

We are now approaching the nadir of Engineer active condition removal outside of Elixirs. Every single build that was not using Healing Turret before will now be using Healing Turret. We may even see some Engineers turning to Elixir C, which shouldn’t even be a thing.

I can only hope that more active condition cleanse through traits outside of Alchemy can be introduced because active condi mitigation of Engineer is now at its lowest point. So, here are a few, vain hopes for future changes for Engineer:

• Transmute: Instead of passive conversion of conditions to Boons, tie proc to Toolbelt use. Global ICD 12 seconds. If you think it’s too strong for a Minor trait, make it trigger only on next attack hitting so the conversion can be dodged and Engineer misses a cleanse.

• Elixir Gun: Make Fumigate also cleanse 1 condition on last tick of channel for the Engineer. It’s a long enough channel to be easily interrupted and Kit Engineer has a dire lack of Cleansing capability since the Kit Refinement nerfs. This change is also easier to shave: Changing the tick when the self-cleanse procs will change how long an Engineer has to channel before self-cleansing.

• Med Kit: Increase Drop Antidote’kittenbox so that it can also cleanse Immobilise when used. 1 cleanse per 15 is hardly overpowered, especially given that the cleanse doesn’t even work when Immobilised. A buff to Drop Antidote’s cleansing ability isn’t even needed, just make it work with Immobilise.

I agree with MonMalthias’ analysis that engineers sorely lack viable condition removal options besides elixirs and healing turret. I however disagree with his suggested changes:

The change to transmute would be a significant nerf to most builds. Many toolbelt skills have a very long cooldown (30-40 s) and the 12 s ICD of the transmute is invisible to the user, thus the timing would be difficult. Forcing engineers to put 30 points to toolbelt recharge and take 20 point power wrench trait to reduce the cooldown of toolbelt skills would seriously reduce the build variety. His change would benefit Static Discharge build, but I still consider that build more of a gimmick, instead of a balanced engineer build (which is sorely lacking from meta). A better way would be transmute converts a condition to a boon when equipping a kit (equipping a kit still procs confusion, which is a big counter against medkit users or those who constantly swap between kits).

I agree that passive condition removal should be removed from the game, but this is not just engineer related problem. Guardian’s have purity, a mere 10 point trait, with 10 s cooldown, removing conditions passively. Signet of Resolve (guardian), Signet of Reneval (ranger) and Signet of Water (elementalist) also remove a condition every 10 seconds passively. I suggest a class wide overhaul, instead of once again nerfing the engineer.

My suggested changes:
Elixir gun #3, furnigate, only remove one condition from allies, but also remove one condition from the user, both removals happening on the 1st tick. (So both a nerf to ally condition removal and buff to self-condition removal)

Med Kit drop antidote should remove 1 condition from the user upon skill activation, and another condition when walking over. I know this would be a huge buff, but the skill description still says “cures conditions”, but it removes just one and immobilize totally destroys still skill at its current form.

make Elixir C a stun breaker

allow me to explain what happened

condi spammers were facerolling in pvp until a player buildt against condies then they couldnt kill a tanky player cuz they built to be tanky so instead the tanky players got punished because condi spammers dint want to run power and condi wich its whats happening in wvw now everyone going dire gear

but alas the patch will result in

A- engies decapping and bunkering harder thanks to buffing and shielding turrets
B- Necros becoming the new decappers thanks to the regen while on deathshroud

selan.8354:

well anet will have to put a diminish return on cc anyways if they want people to have a good experiance. its not fun to get chain cced chain stunned, chain feared, chain knocked down, perma crippled, perma chilled…all these are terrible things that shouldnt be in a pvp environment without dr.

They had a good system in Guild Wars 1. If you used a knockdown skill on someone that was already knocked down, it was wasted.

Just need something to promote timing and less spam of disables.

I wanted to chime in about Hambow. While I get why they are trying to push people away from this spec they are continuously hurting other builds in the process. The thing that makes bow so valuable is that it is a reliable way to get rid of conditions via Cleansing Ire. Most other bursts are easy blinded or avoided and even between CI, Zerker Stance, Dogged March, and Lyssa runes you can still be overwhelmed by conditions if you don’t hit your bursts.

What I think Warrior needs, and I have suggested this in the past, is a burst that doesn’t necessarily hit hard but fills the role of consistent condi cleanse. I think that Greatsword would be the best candidate because the current burst is useless. If it were to be changed to something like:

Arcing Slice: Send out a slash of air that strikes the foe. Unblockable. Range: 900

While this can still be blocked and dodged it will still give a melee weapon a way to get the effect from CI to get rid of condis. Bow will still be good, but this would open up more options build wise because with the upcoming nerf to critical damage I can see condis becoming even more common.

I might make another thread about this in this forum since the Devs don’t seem to frequent the class forums anymore.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I wanted to chime in about Hambow. While I get why they are trying to push people away from this spec they are continuously hurting other builds in the process. The thing that makes bow so valuable is that it is a reliable way to get rid of conditions via Cleansing Ire. Most other bursts are easy blinded or avoided and even between CI, Zerker Stance, Dogged March, and Lyssa runes you can still be overwhelmed by conditions if you don’t hit your bursts.

What I think Warrior needs, and I have suggested this in the past, is a burst that doesn’t necessarily hit hard but fills the role of consistent condi cleanse. I think that Greatsword would be the best candidate because the current burst is useless. If it were to be changed to something like:

Arcing Slice: Send out a slash of air that strikes the foe. Unblockable. Range: 900

Cleansing Ire is already too good for a 20 point trait. I cannot imagine any viable warrior build which doesn’t use it. And warriors have much better condition removal than most of the professions, even if they do not equip the longbow.

Greatsword burst is weak, but weapon itself is far from weak as it offers both the highest mobility in the game, 900 ranged cripple and massive dps (100 blades), all in just one weapon. 6/8 professions cannot achieve the same mobility even using all the possible utility skills. Having 900 ranged unblockable attack with under 10 s cooldown = overpowered

One of the smartest ways to nerf the warrior would be actually to increase the warrior burst cooldown by 10 seconds. Traits points in discipline line would naturally reduce this extra time as well. The ability to spam earthshaker (2 s AoE stun, leap, blast finisher) with less than 10 s cooldown is brokenly good in WvWvW large scale fights.

Arenanet’s official vision for the warrior was that it would have the best health, the best armor, good damage, good group support, good CC, good mobility, but conditions would be its achilles’ heel. Many patches keep roughly doubling some warrior skills e.g. banners effectiveness to stats was roughly doubled, signets buffed, healing signet almost doubled in effectiveness. New traits like dogged march and cleansing ire to make warrior almost impervious to movement impairing conditions (paired with mobile strikes). Some skills like pin down got 6 stacks of bleed in addition to immobilize. Berserker stance gave immunity to conditions. Sword and rifle got buffed in many ways etc. At the same time the nerfs have been so small and the planned nerfs are also going to be 8-15%. Next fast hands traits + 4 sigils in weapon.

Compare this for example what they did to the engineer. Kit refinement completely nerfed to the ground (no competive build uses it). First grenade kit auto attack 30% nerf in Autumn 2012. Now planned 40% nerf to grenade kit #5. Automated response 50% nerf incoming (I am glad AR is nerfed though).

So the philosophy goes: warrior is fine without having any major weaknesses as all. While every single other profession has some major weakness e.g. necromancer lacks mobility, thieves are squishy and rangers lack active condition removals and stability. According the balance team all skill nerfs to warriors should be very slow and minor (“let’s wait for the meta”), but buffs can be massive (“This skill feels weak. Let’s double the skill’s effectiveness”). While for some other professions, let’s use the 50% nerf hammer. ;-)

This all leads to just one conclusion: without further adjustments warrior will continue to be heavily overpowered after the April 15th patch.

I’ve responded to you here.

Will this nerfs make these builds not playable anymore? No.

Remember what happened to Elementalists? It literally got nerfed to the ground for doing the things that Warriors currently do minus the damage.

I like the changes step by step. The problem before hambow was, that the warrior was a free kill. Now they are OP but not OP like the Ele was. Changing the balance a bit is perfect, because the last thing we want is that the warrior is a freekill again.

Liewec.2896:

after SIX MONTHS of hambow they nerf the damage of one skill by 5% and everyone is happy about that?

I guess it’s easier to make your point when you ignore the facts.
Hambow has been nerfed multiple times in the last 6 months.
Do us a favor and do your homework before you post.

@perko
Bringing something OP down by 8% it’s not even close to making a HalfGod from God – and even then, they would both just stomp mortals.
I guess it’s easier to do your homework when you lack objectivity.
Do us a favor and maybe buy some objectivity in nearest shop beforu you post.

Hambow will have had nearly double figure nerfs when the ones from 15.4.14 become active…should have just deleted Warrior Longbow and Hammer. Even then the Warrior QQ’ers would not be happy, they would want Warrior deleted fullstop.

perko.8309:

I guess it’s easier to make your point when you ignore the facts.
Hambow has been nerfed multiple times in the last 6 months.
Do us a favor and do your homework before you post.

ironically you ignored the part about me critting people for 5-6k with hammer just last night, and then you tell me that i should read before i post.

yes its been nerfed several times, but by unnoticable amounts, there is no excuse why i can still roll around 3 shotting people after six months.

its a CC weapon with its traits in a bunker tree, it should not be capable of glass cannon damage with all the benefits of a CCing weapon and a tanking traits.
the damage needs a huge nerf not unnoticable tickles over years of time.

Apparently, warrior tears taste better than thief tears.

monochrome.9841:

@perko
Bringing something OP down by 8% it’s not even close to making a HalfGod from God – and even then, they would both just stomp mortals.
I guess it’s easier to do your homework when you lack objectivity.
Do us a favor and maybe buy some objectivity in nearest shop beforu you post.

Warrior is one poorly placed nerf away from being totally useless. At launch Warrior had the same armor, health, mobility, etc and was totally worthless compared to thief. It got Dogged March, Cleansing Ire, and a buff to Zerker Stance (all of these were suggestions from the Warrior forum) and was STILL not competitive. It wasn’t until Healing Signet got buffed that Warrior became strong.

So yes, an 8% nerf here and a 5% nerf there is actually the right thing to do. They learned from Ele, in a single patch it went from best class in the game to one of the worst. They’re trying to avoid that happening again. I just wish they wouldn’t keep beating up Longbow. I could take the Arching Arrow and Pin Down nerfs if they reverted the Combustive shot change. That was nerfed because someone thought hits from it refilled your adrenaline bar…which it doesn’t.

And there is the pitty post. Its only a matter of time.

“but, but, warriors were sooooo kitten!”

They were never that kitten, Warriors still got used in high-end pvp, WvW and theyve always been the most popular pve profession.

At this point in time, since launch, Warriors have now been overpowered longer then theyve been “underpowered”.
And yet far more balanced, or even weak professions are getting nerfed harder then Warriors are.

So what did arenanet really learn? These tip-toe nerfs are only being applied to Warriors. Every other profession just gets slashing nerfs. 40% here, 50% there, 30% of this. Ow, warrior… lets start with 5% and 8% and then we might just buff them somewhere else again.

This games balance is utter bullkitten.

lets point out that when warriors were “underpowered” it was duringa time were people dint kite nor moved even out of wvw siege range nor used stun breakers

everyone ran the same setup GS bullrush invulnerability and random utility

so it was a Lean to play issue from the beggining

remember ? when people complained engis with nades where op of spamming nades to a fixed spot cuz everyone stood still by the gates and walls?

heck i remember i had to start a guild of banner warrs cuz no one even dropped those xD