Dhuumfire nerf, a step in the right direction

Dhuumfire nerf, a step in the right direction

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Geff.1930

Geff.1930

The nerf to Dhuumfire and the Pin Down cast time are definitely welcome changes because it increases prediction and limits randomness. We need more changes like this.

For one, Incendiary Powder for Engi needs to be nerfed. It works in a similar fashion to Dhuumfire, but that’s not the reason. The true reason is because it limits counterplay.

In a similar vein buffs like incendiary ammo and thief poisons should have a unique aura.

On the subject of skill “tells”, I would also highly recommend that the sound department work on giving each skill (or as many as possible), a unique and very audible skill effect sound. Sound effects are very important especially in 3rd person games where visibility is not as great as in a game with an isometric view. The game Smite has countered this limitation by giving each and every skill in the game a very unique and immediately telling sound effect. Just as an example, when loki goes into stealth everyone in the immediate vicinity is made aware that there is a loki readying to gank from stealth just from the very telling sound effect when he goes into stealth. This improves counterplay and reduces randomness. Ao Kuang ult is another good example.

Ofcourse a lot of skills already have an audible sound effect but many still need it. In particular, Warrior’s Kill Shot.

Along with an increase in tells we also should have a reduction in the sources of damage immunity. In most skill based games there are very few sources of damage immunity. In smite, for instance, there is aegis, a purchasable item that gives a few precious seconds of immunity on a very high CD and you are unable to do damage for those few seconds. Notice the level of commitment you need to have just to get this item, it costs a decent amount and it fills up one of only 2 active slots, if you choose aegis you might not want to spend the gold or active slot for stun break(beads) for instance. Furthermore, everyone in the match is made aware of not only the items in your active slots but also all of the skills you have access to, therefore encouraging prediction and counterplay. Damage avoidance is not gained primarily from immunity sources but from knowing what skills are available to the enemy and acting accordingly though active repositioning with leaps and movement skills.

I understand the dev’s decision to leave Mesmer’s vigor uptime as it is because of their reliance on deceptive evasion. But ,there is no reason they should need blurred flurry to grant 2 seconds of invulnerability on top of having high vigor uptime, low CD teleport and distortion and stealth. This is especially not justified because they are damage immune while they are doing damage. You wouldn’t expect a Warrior to be damage immune while using hundred blades for instance.

Endure pain is also iffy, despite its long CD. Remember that a lot of skills that grant damage immunity also needs you to commit to a few seconds of doing no damage (assuming no conditions and pets), which is a big deal in such a sustain heavy game. These skills are for instance Elixer S, Shield Stance and Gear Shield.

Pistol Whip is in a similar situation as Blurred frenzy and Endure Pain, granted the evasion might be more justified in the thief’s case because they do not have as high avoidance methods as mesmer and because of the initiative cost.

(edited by Geff.1930)

Dhuumfire nerf, a step in the right direction

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Posted by: emikochan.8504

emikochan.8504

endure pain doesn’t give condition immunity. Only pure invulns have the no attack tradeoff.

Earth Focus 5 has invuln, but not to condi, so I don’t think that counts either.
Blurred Frenzy immobilises you, and also doesn’t give condition immunity (evades never have any effect on condi).

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(edited by emikochan.8504)

Dhuumfire nerf, a step in the right direction

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Posted by: Simonoly.4352

Simonoly.4352

Mesmer vigor uptime is being reduced by 50%. Deceptive Evasion is being left as it is because nerfing it is unneeded and would only hurt builds that are not an issue (namely shatter).

Also Blurred Frenzy grants 2 seconds of evasion not invulnerability and Thieves have amazing on demand measures for active evasion (hello shortbow 3, chaining stealth, blind fields, Sword 2, Shadow Return, Withdraw, stealth not dependent on cooldowns).

I don’t think that the evasion on Blurred Frenzy is going to be removed until Mesmers and Warriors have the exact same base health and armour. And will all know that’s definitely going to happen.

Gandara

Dhuumfire nerf, a step in the right direction

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Posted by: Balefire.7592

Balefire.7592

Dhuumfire nerf is fine, as long as it doesn’t stay at GM level. It’s good for a Master level trait, since it no longer synergizes very well with condition specs (which have trouble acquiring life force).

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Dhuumfire nerf, a step in the right direction

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Considering that Evade frames do the exact same thing as Invulnerability frames, I don’t see why you suggest that Blurred Frenzy isn’t an invulnerability. No new conditions can be applied during either one and existing effects persist through their duration anyway.

Now, honestly speaking, I don’t mind Blurred Frenzy as-is. The Mesmer can’t move to follow you during it, nor can he move to avoid AoE’s you place to effect him when it ends.

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Dhuumfire nerf, a step in the right direction

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Posted by: Simonoly.4352

Simonoly.4352

Considering that Evade frames do the exact same thing as Invulnerability frames, I don’t see why you suggest that Blurred Frenzy isn’t an invulnerability. No new conditions can be applied during either one and existing effects persist through their duration anyway.

Now, honestly speaking, I don’t mind Blurred Frenzy as-is. The Mesmer can’t move to follow you during it, nor can he move to avoid AoE’s you place to effect him when it ends.

An evade attack is still subject to retaliation damage and effects from auras whereas an invulnerable attack is not. It means that D/D Eles in particular have a nice counter to illusionary leap/blurred frenzy combos by using Shocking Aura.

Gandara

Dhuumfire nerf, a step in the right direction

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Posted by: Samhayn.2385

Samhayn.2385

You can’t still eat retaliation and cc using blurred frenzy so its not invulnerability.

also dhummfire change is ok but 3sec burn on a 10 sec cool down that you can only take advantage of when you use DS is not a 30 point trait and either needs to be buffed or moved. Also wondering with the change to dhuum are we going to see some of the nerfs we have eaten since its introduction will be converted weakening shroud maybe since it is the definition of what our class is supposed to be (attrition and weakening foe so we fan stay in the fight)


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Dhuumfire nerf, a step in the right direction

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Posted by: Master of Timespace.2548

Master of Timespace.2548

But ,there is no reason they should need blurred flurry to grant 2 seconds of invulnerability on top of having high vigor uptime, low CD teleport and distortion and stealth. This is especially not justified because they are damage immune while they are doing damage. You wouldn’t expect a Warrior to be damage immune while using hundred blades for instance.

Are you new to the game? Great sword whirl gives damage immunity while dealing massive damage. The evasion isn’t as long as that of blurred frenzy, but to compensate, the skill has shorter cool down, deals more damage, is a combo finisher, greater aoe effect and acts as a movement boost.
100blades has 2.5 times higher damage factor than blurred frenzy so no, blurred frenzy isn’t quite the same as 100blades with evasion.

Blurred frenzy is a very defensive skill with moderate damage output, whirl attack is a nice mix of offence, defense and some utility, 100blades is pure offense. I think these 3 are all quite balanced skills.

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(edited by Master of Timespace.2548)

Dhuumfire nerf, a step in the right direction

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Posted by: Geff.1930

Geff.1930

Are you new to the game? Great sword whirl gives damage immunity while dealing massive damage. The evasion isn’t as long as that of blurred frenzy, but to compensate, the skill has shorter cool down, deals more damage, is a combo finisher, greater aoe effect and acts as a movement boost.
100blades has 2.5 times higher damage factor than blurred frenzy so no, blurred frenzy isn’t quite the same as 100blades with evasion.

Blurred frenzy is a very defensive skill with moderate damage output, whirl attack is a nice mix of offence, defense and some utility, 100blades is pure offense. I think these 3 are all quite balanced skills.

If it is a defensive skill why not make it a block similar to Elixer S, Shield Stance and Gear Shield during which you can’t do any damage.