Guild Wars 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT_sa59Zkgw

Group stacks necros and wipes a zerg.

Most of the sustain comes from the guardians and the engie and the many deaths (nearly infinite Lifeforce).

They stacked the necros most likely for the damage. Ranged wells are after all one of the reasons why necros are part of the GWEN meta.

Not to mention that any good group would probably wiped that zerg…

You linked a video in EoTM. The thing is they were all buffed with might stacks because of good coordination but they also had a bunch of uplevels sitting in wells that lich necros had dropped. Those do massive damage but they were against UPLEVELS! Necros get more powerful as more people die(life force gains), so when you have an easy source of sustain and damage(again, lots of uplevels giving free life force) you get a powerful necro group.

If this is the tM/SPCA/Holy I remember, they could have done this easily without the necro comp. Now if they did this to a regular zerg in wvw I would be a bit more impressed.

Step your game up guys, those kills were not fast enough.

What Ynot said.

A very high percentage of uplevels, probably just looking to lvl up their WvW skills quickly, get taken down by a well organized group. Boring TBH.

I mean at the beginning of the video they don’t even fight back for the first few seconds of the fight, then they all start backpedaling away.

EotM is without a doubt the worst team-play WvW has to offer. We talk about “mindless zerging” all the time in WvW, and that term is at its truest form in EotM.

If you want to troll, at least find a good and credible video

Flumek.9043:

If you want to troll, at least find a good and credible video

Not trolling even though it was in eotm its was still like 20+ vs like 5 or 6 guys. I have seen lots of necro asking for more sustain which they do not need. Necro is a beast its offensive capabilities is quite scary in a good comp they are very strong. Any class that is not a warrior or bunker staff ele is gonna have a hard time dealing with necro burst be it power or condition damage.

vincecontix.1264:

Flumek.9043:

If you want to troll, at least find a good and credible video

Not trolling even though it was in eotm its was still like 20+ vs like 5 or 6 guys. I have seen lots of necro asking for more sustain which they do not need. Necro is a beast its offensive capabilities is quite scary in a good comp they are very strong. Any class that is not a warrior or bunker staff ele is gonna have a hard time dealing with necro burst be it power or condition damage.

The burst of any profession that goes full zerker and full offensive trees (like power necromancer do) is hard to deal with so it is not that suprising.

And there something you should understand. Necromancer can by quite tanky due the “second lifebar” but that isnt the same as sustain. And the reason why most necromancer complain about sustain is because the traitlines/skills that are supposed to give sustain do a terrible job for that. Because of that it is always better as necromancer to go full offensive traits (spite,curses, soul reaping) and hope you kill your opponent fast enough.

So essentially if necromancer complain about sustain it is most likely about bloodmagic and how bad the traitline is.

In my opinion if Anet simply would allow all the necromancers healing/siphon traits to work in DS and maybe some changes to bloodmagic in general, they would probably have already done enough for the sustain problem.

Muchacho.2390:

vincecontix.1264:

Flumek.9043:

If you want to troll, at least find a good and credible video

Not trolling even though it was in eotm its was still like 20+ vs like 5 or 6 guys. I have seen lots of necro asking for more sustain which they do not need. Necro is a beast its offensive capabilities is quite scary in a good comp they are very strong. Any class that is not a warrior or bunker staff ele is gonna have a hard time dealing with necro burst be it power or condition damage.

.

And there something you should understand. Necromancer can by quite tanky due the “second lifebar” but that isnt the same as sustain. And the reason why most necromancer complain about sustain is because the traitlines/skills that are supposed to give sustain do a terrible job for that. Because of that it is always better as necromancer to go full offensive traits (spite,curses, soul reaping) and hope you kill your opponent fast enough.

So essentially if necromancer complain about sustain it is most likely about bloodmagic and how bad the traitline is.

Yes thats right necros can be quite tanky and have very good offensive capabilities at the same time. Tankiness and sustain are both defensive attributes that allow one to stay alive in a fight. You can not buff or nerf one without taking in to consideration the other.

I am saying necro meta builds(condi/power) have enough off both esp if they have support from another class to aid in there weaker areas, its a team game after all. After reading some post from necro players most of them just want there sustain increase with out losing any of there offensive capabilities which would make necro to strong.

As I said earlier any class that is not a warrior or bunker celestial staff ele is gonna have a hard time dealing with a decent necro.

vincecontix.1264:

Muchacho.2390:

vincecontix.1264:

Flumek.9043:

If you want to troll, at least find a good and credible video

Not trolling even though it was in eotm its was still like 20+ vs like 5 or 6 guys. I have seen lots of necro asking for more sustain which they do not need. Necro is a beast its offensive capabilities is quite scary in a good comp they are very strong. Any class that is not a warrior or bunker staff ele is gonna have a hard time dealing with necro burst be it power or condition damage.

.

And there something you should understand. Necromancer can by quite tanky due the “second lifebar” but that isnt the same as sustain. And the reason why most necromancer complain about sustain is because the traitlines/skills that are supposed to give sustain do a terrible job for that. Because of that it is always better as necromancer to go full offensive traits (spite,curses, soul reaping) and hope you kill your opponent fast enough.

So essentially if necromancer complain about sustain it is most likely about bloodmagic and how bad the traitline is.

Yes thats right necros can be quite tanky and have very good offensive capabilities at the same time. Tankiness and sustain are both defensive attributes that allow one to stay alive in a fight. You can not buff or nerf one without taking in to consideration the other.

I am saying necro meta builds(condi/power) have enough off both esp if they have support from another class to aid in there weaker areas, its a team game after all. After reading some post from necro players most of them just want there sustain increase with out losing any of there offensive capabilities which would make necro to strong.

As I said earlier any class that is not a warrior or bunker celestial staff ele is gonna have a hard time dealing with a decent necro.

Yeah sure.
So what about I post the same crap you did, but with hotjoin instead, because you know, the more imbalance the gamemode has, the better my post will be! and use
“Do thief have to much sustain/damage” as a title?

So constructive.

vincecontix.1264 , ill bite.

wvw IS unbalanced.
40% warrior , 40% guard, 10% ele , 10% necro , 1% mesmer, 0% thief , 0% ranger…. Thats how a ideal zerg is. The devs leave it in that state because its meant as a giant chaotic sandbox.
Then theres small scale – roaming…. stealth, nike warior and all other stuff. Again, they dont want to give us game mode without captures nodes in pvp, because they tested and wvw clearly shows what unbalanced junk comes out.
Last,
theres difference in numbers (lol fairness) and WvW AVERAGE player is pretty bad ( 30 poeple can have 15 underleves and PvE guys, which basicaly means 50% are idiots… and if not, you have all players in range from: 1 bad, 1 meh, 1 average, 1 ok, 1 good player…. PVP if youre ranked you “should” play 5 good vs. 5 good.)

Now, with above points, you can hopefully see,
that ANY class can do a “wow look at this” video in wvw. And video shows many new & bad players.
Like on start of game poeple looked more at wvw, now that most realized how bad enemys there are, its lost all credibility. U can kill 1v5x poeple, but noone knows their names and how good they are. If u show a clip from my tourny, my rank is 95%, that means that my enemys were all top 90-100% players for example.

This wasnt necro vs buffs , it was improving your general knowledge of how wvw works.

now, ill try to explain what sustain is and why necros want it.

We want it because thats the class description and grand design.
We dont burst , retreat, burst to finish like thieves. We stay in the fight, and the LONGER the fight goes, the weaker enemy gets, the stronger we get, meaning we win at the long end. this is the design by which poeple chose necro at start

The devs said, they nerfed our ds#2 aoe teleport and they wont give us back the mobility.
For concrete balance, this means, necro will get focused, CC, cant move away, dies. Congratz, you just killed a necro fast. But now, if you dont, a necro should wear you down if you havea long fight right?
BEEEEEP!!
Here is the problem. WE DONT HAVE SUSTAIN FOR LONG FIGHT.

Warior with stupidity signet + perma fire field
Celestial ele decent dmg with great healing
Even dps guard in 1v1 has great sustained healing from meditations

Necro is supposed to die fast to focus but not die slow. But out healing is very, very bad.
So only thing we can do is go full glass or full “condi overload” and pray we kill enemy fast, cz were gonna lose on the long run.

Would we trade damage for survival?
Yes, just picking defensive traits would already put us away from our offensive ones. Also, enemy cleansing and healing is soo high in game, that our dmg isnt even that great currently.

Would we be unkillable?
Even if the small buffs / bugfixes were asking for, would make us a 1v1 GOD , we would still get wrecked by a CC spike in a teamfight…. (unlike warior for example -.- )

TL,DR:

- Dont base any balance assumptions from wvw
- necro isnt in the role its designed to, and even in the undesigned role its still bad to others
- Sry if youre an engie, and get hard countered by a necro condi transfer. dont forget you can switch to celestial rifle and just CC us to death

In my little time I’ve been experimenting with necro I’ve found their sustain seems adequate. Neither too much nor too little.

When fighting them, it can feel like they have too much. But that’s only because they charge life force extra quickly when they take hits due to spectral skills.

It’s kind of funny sometimes when you play a necro and you are the target of a spike while in deathshroud, yet your life force actually goes up when spectral armor triggers then comes down then goes back up from taking hits.

If it’s not a power necro, one way to play against a necro is to not focus them while in death shroud during team fights. They have strong skills in death shroud, but once they don’t have their 3, 4, and 5 they are stuck lifeblasting. Which isn’t optimal, so either they life blast for lower dps or they have to come out of death shroud.

Once they come out of death shroud you look for the interrupt on the heal, and focus them again.

Shockwave.1230:

I’ve found their sustain seems adequate.
(…)
They have strong skills in death shroud, but once they don’t have their 3, 4, and 5 they are stuck lifeblasting. Which isn’t optimal, so either they life blast for lower dps or they have to come out of death shroud. Once they come out of death shroud you look for the interrupt on the heal, and focus them again.

???

Nice way to contradict yourself with your own post. I don’t think substain means what you think it means.

Also, for the sake of not getting redundant, and not further feeding this troll thread, read Flumek second post.

On topic of sustain versus able to survive a burst.

The survival mechanic of necros “is” the death shroud. Sustain would be the high availability of said mechanic. The ability to keep high damage ticking while surviving large amounts of damage is, on the surface, where a lot of the complaints come from.

Would you guys, as obviously necro players, want more availability of death shroud? What is “sustain” to you, because surviving a lot of damage in a fight and outliving your opponents equates to sustain. There needs to be a gap where you have an opening though, otherwise you are just always sustaining and never dying i.e. OP.

How would you create a counterable sustain mechanic that will enhance survivability without making something unbalanced.

Off topic, so I was watching the videos for both the engi and the guard, and it was actually the engi that kept everyone alive and not the guard as the earlier claim was above.

The guard provided tons of retal, which in turn caused the zergs to keep damaging themselves while the necros survived tons of damage.

After that the guard provided “some” might stacking, but the range was inconsistent so only himself or maybe one other necro would gain the might from staff at times.

Additionally the guard provided very minor area control with random wards in the middle of the battle field. Best use was at the choke point on the bridge, but after that he just seemed to cast on cooldown.

Condi removal, stability and annoyance factor were the side support items he provided, but they never seemed to come into huge play, as he was never focused and not a ton of CC was avoided.

CMF.5461:

On topic of sustain versus able to survive a burst.

The survival mechanic of necros “is” the death shroud. Sustain would be the high availability of said mechanic. The ability to keep high damage ticking while surviving large amounts of damage is, on the surface, where a lot of the complaints come from.

Would you guys, as obviously necro players, want more availability of death shroud? What is “sustain” to you, because surviving a lot of damage in a fight and outliving your opponents equates to sustain. There needs to be a gap where you have an opening though, otherwise you are just always sustaining and never dying i.e. OP.

How would you create a counterable sustain mechanic that will enhance survivability without making something unbalanced.

Off topic, so I was watching the videos for both the engi and the guard, and it was actually the engi that kept everyone alive and not the guard as the earlier claim was above.

The guard provided tons of retal, which in turn caused the zergs to keep damaging themselves while the necros survived tons of damage.

After that the guard provided “some” might stacking, but the range was inconsistent so only himself or maybe one other necro would gain the might from staff at times.

Additionally the guard provided very minor area control with random wards in the middle of the battle field. Best use was at the choke point on the bridge, but after that he just seemed to cast on cooldown.

Condi removal, stability and annoyance factor were the side support items he provided, but they never seemed to come into huge play, as he was never focused and not a ton of CC was avoided.

Obviously, you’ll find your answer in a troll thread… But like seriously, you really didn’t feel like doing some research?

Exemple 1:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/My-suggestion-to-fix-the-necromancer/first#post4351866

And many more. Just keep searching, it’s easy.

I read a few of the necro threads, bottom line seems you guys want to be able to heal while in DS.

I have a necro, but I don’t play it seriously. Healing while in DS seems like the logical answer, but prior to this I realized that necros did not have a large availability to vigor. This caused me to ask the necro boards how they survive and avoid damage. The conclusion I came up with is that dodges + death shroud are “avoidance” to damage to your actual health pool.

So instead of thinking of it as a second life bar, think of it as additional “dodges” to flicker on and off as needed. In focused fire, any class will die to multiple attackers, so being forced to burn all of your survival in one go leaves you open.

With healing in DS, there probably should be a reduction in availability of DS then, so you can’t just outright tank and live forever.

Although my question was for those of you in this thread, if you are complaining so much how would “you” fix it. So researching others ideas would be inaccurate of me to find another person’s answers/suggestion and apply them to “you”.

Unless you have no real input, but simply complaints, and just like to repeat what others have said before you.

CMF.5461:

I read a few of the necro threads, bottom line seems you guys want to be able to heal while in DS.

I have a necro, but I don’t play it seriously. Healing while in DS seems like the logical answer, but prior to this I realized that necros did not have a large availability to vigor. This caused me to ask the necro boards how they survive and avoid damage. The conclusion I came up with is that dodges + death shroud are “avoidance” to damage to your actual health pool.

So instead of thinking of it as a second life bar, think of it as additional “dodges” to flicker on and off as needed. In focused fire, any class will die to multiple attackers, so being forced to burn all of your survival in one go leaves you open.

With healing in DS, there probably should be a reduction in availability of DS then, so you can’t just outright tank and live forever.

Although my question was for those of you in this thread, if you are complaining so much how would “you” fix it. So researching others ideas would be inaccurate of me to find another person’s answers/suggestion and apply them to “you”.

Unless you have no real input, but simply complaints, and just like to repeat what others have said before you.

Most necros would already be happy if atleast their healing/siphon traits would work in DS. It would make the bloodmagic tree, especially the siphon traits, not so frustrating.

Poplolita.2638:

Shockwave.1230:

I’ve found their sustain seems adequate.
(…)
They have strong skills in death shroud, but once they don’t have their 3, 4, and 5 they are stuck lifeblasting. Which isn’t optimal, so either they life blast for lower dps or they have to come out of death shroud. Once they come out of death shroud you look for the interrupt on the heal, and focus them again.

???

Nice way to contradict yourself with your own post. I don’t think substain means what you think it means.

Also, for the sake of not getting redundant, and not further feeding this troll thread, read Flumek second post.

So much cents, such insight, such value, truly all will be enlightened after reading such incredibly well identified points.

Shockwave.1230:

Poplolita.2638:

Shockwave.1230:

I’ve found their sustain seems adequate.
(…)
They have strong skills in death shroud, but once they don’t have their 3, 4, and 5 they are stuck lifeblasting. Which isn’t optimal, so either they life blast for lower dps or they have to come out of death shroud. Once they come out of death shroud you look for the interrupt on the heal, and focus them again.

???

Nice way to contradict yourself with your own post. I don’t think substain means what you think it means.

Also, for the sake of not getting redundant, and not further feeding this troll thread, read Flumek second post.

So much cents, such insight, such value, truly all will be enlightened after reading such incredibly well identified points.

Poplolita.2638:

Also, for the sake of not getting redundant, and not further feeding this troll thread, read Flumek second post.