Guild Wars 2

Warrior
Dogged March
Adept Major Trait in “Defense” Line (Toughness/Healing Power)
“Incoming movement-impeding conditions [cripple, chill, immobilize] have their durations reduced. Gain regeneration when you are affected by one of these conditions. "
33%

Engineer
Leg Mods
Master Major Train in “Tools” Line (Ferocity/Tool Belt recharge)
“Cripple, chill, and immobilize durations are reduced. "
33%

Basically you can get a defensive trait in a defensive line for 2 points as warrior and a “nerfed” one (no regeneration) for 4 points in an ~hybrid (but maybe still more on the offensive side) line as an engineer.

I understand that the almighty warrior can achieve it easier than the nerdy engineer, and I believe the majority of engineers would not use it even if it required only 2 points..

But still, I can’t grasp the concept of the balance that made this decision, can someone help me with it?

Google didn’t give me a thread as result only some posts.

Yeah, I have noticed this in the past as I have both professions. As well, it has been mentioned in post on threads of other topics.

The engineer has so many traits that are extremely similar to those of other professions, as you see with this one, only with a weaker tone. The odd thing is that now, I see engineer claimed as OP more then warrior.

Yep, balance is totally about taking 2 traits from 2 classes and compare them to tell wich class is really op.

Actually there are many similiar traits across the professions that are weaker on one then the other. For example IP and Dhuumfire, some of the 25% movement traits (for necros it is master, while for eles it is adept etc.).

Maybe it is to give the professions some different flaver or it is simply balance reasons like in the case of IP and Dhuumfire.

It is one of those strange things to happen over the development of the game they started they balance often towards normalization. Geomancer’s Freedom is another trait that is a tier higher, but not nearly as good as the similar adept tiered trait.

Honestly I think they just need to got through and rework the traits as there remains some that have not been looked at since they decided to rank them into tiers in the first place.

Every class is different, and certain traits although very similar to other class’s traits, they impact classes in different ways and vary in the amount of benefit they get from the traits within the context of the builds/options different classes have. What could seem overpowered in the context of one class could be very underpowered in the context of another, which in many cases doesn’t necessarily make it accurate or useful to nitpick similar traits from one class to another to justify nerfs/buffs.

That is all I will say, I hope i answered your question

Warrior and Engineer are two different classes, so there’s the big difference in your analysis. You can’t treat similar/identical things between two completely different classes the same for balance.

And while we are at it, let us compare the Engineer’s Gear Shield with Shield Stance.

Exact same skill, except Gear Shield has a 20 second cooldown and Shield Stance has a 30 second cooldown.

You can’t look at skills in a vacuum like that to justify balance exclusively. Well you can, but that would just mean you have a very narrow mind and should never be a game developer.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Warrior and Engineer are two different classes, so there’s the big difference in your analysis. You can’t treat similar/identical things between two completely different classes the same for balance.

That’s why I asked the question?

I can understand why a only-meele warrior need this trait, ofc he don’t want to be kited around..
But engineers always have a ranged weapon (and can cleanse those condis with rifle anyway), and only kits can be used as meele, so if you put in a trait that the majority doesn’t need, why is it even worse than another class’?
I mean in what kind of build would it be so OP that they couldn’t get the same version? What is the reason for not having f.e. the regeneration part? Engis have already enough access to it? They’re too strong when they have so many boons on them? Healing Signet warrior with adrenalin regen and regeneration buff is not “too much”?

I believe I did not asked for nerf/buff, did not shout “OP! NERF IT!”, just asked for reasons? Maybe my broken english made it hard to understand, then sorry.
(As it’s more interesting nowadays for me to theorycraft about balance than to play..)

killahmayne.9518:

And while we are at it, let us compare the Engineer’s Gear Shield with Shield Stance.

Exact same skill, except Gear Shield has a 20 second cooldown and Shield Stance has a 30 second cooldown.

You can’t look at skills in a vacuum like that to justify balance exclusively. Well you can, but that would just mean you have a very narrow mind and should never be a game developer.

Gear Shield is part of a “meele”-kit, while Shield Stance is an off-hand skill.
Warrior has another skills to get immunity (stances, thou to different degree), has another blocking skills on weapons (sword, mace), while engineer has for immunity Elixir S (and you can’t contest with it, so pretty balanced compared to stances) and shield off-hand for block/reflect.
Warrior has higher base hp and armor and can reset fights a little easier (not impossible with engi, but harder).
I believe that Gear Shield is almost the same as Shield Stance, the difference is more in the kit/offhand weapon, as your other skills in Toolkit can be very effective for a variety of builds (power, condi, control/trolling with magnet) while shield.. is maybe more niche with the ’rupt skill for warrior.
(Thou one must not forget that a kit is a utility skill slot, but acts like a weapon, kit skills are always a bit harder to compare with weapon skills.)

I can argue pro and contra for gear shield / shield stance, but I can’t really for leg mods / dogged march.. That’s why I asked about those

OP doesn’t realize that Engineer has better access to Regen than Warrior.

Remember: Traits and Skills should always be 1-to-1 compared without context. Who cares if the rest of the class is entirely different, after all?

Please don’t compare traits across classes in a vacuum; because it borders on straw-man. The two classes simply don’t equate very well in other respects.

Warrior requires Dogged March in Adept because of its melee range focus requiring easy access to snare mitigation. Strangely enough for a Melee class; it lacks focused target cleanses against Immobilise/Cripple/Chill barring Mobile Strikes; which is itself in a place that has a lot of opportunity cost (Destruction of the Empowered for example). So its need for snare mitigation is arguably higher; because Warrior does its best damage in melee; and its profession mechanic for melee sets can be kited.

For Engineer, Leg Mods is in Tools Master Major because snare mitigation is more of a luxury. Permaswiftness access; whilst not being proper mitigation is actually moderately good against slows. (Swiftness is 33% (25% in combat), Cripple -50%, Chill -66%)

Engineer also has greater access to targeted snare cleanses through Rocket Boots and Overcharged Shot; though Pistol/X is lacking.

Finally, it should be noted that Leg Mods is no longer considered the “apex” choice; with Missile Deflection taking over for Axe/Sword Longbow builds, and Sure Footed being a good pick for any build running triple Stance (which is a lot of builds).

On the other hand, Leg Mods with Hoelbrak Runes finds its way into one of the meta Celestial Engineer builds (toss up against Power Wrench) for its Chill mitigation. That Engineers would take Leg Mods despite it being “inferior” to Dogged March means that it isn’t as bad as previously thought.

TL;DR:
The other is a trait for a class that is mostly about kiting your enemy and the other is a trait for a class that is mostly being kited. I suppose I don’t need to say which is Engineer and which is Warrior.