Guild Wars 2

Is an elementalist with rampagers gear overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with clerics gear overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with berzerker gear overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with any stat set beside celestial overpowering? No.

Is an elementalist with a sigil of agony and a sigil of doom overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with a sigil of force and a sigil of accuracy overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with runes of the krait overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with runes of the ogre overpowering? No.

Is an elementalist with runes of strength, battle sigil and celestial gear specced with full bunker traits overpowering? Yes.

Arena-net, you decide what is going on here. Some players may disagree with me, but I would not call it a long shot to say that many players can agree with me. Certainly though, my opinions do not represent the gw2 community, but for this particular post, I have molded my opinions to what I see people are complaining about in the game and in the forums. Certainly, when we see people complaining about ele, its always about that cele/strength/battle/bunker spec.

I have to agree, intelligent people are aware that elementalist are not the problem. It is only the truly salty, unknowledgeable, short sighted, and poorly skilled, who claim the profession as problematic.

Builds are OP not professions.

Anet is aware of all of this. I have no doubt they let out a big sigh of relief, now that they finally got you personal permission to allow them to decide what to do about.

coglin.1867:

I have to agree, intelligent people are aware that elementalist are not the problem. It is only the truly salty, unknowledgeable, short sighted, and poorly skilled, who claim the profession as problematic.

This is really funny, because theres literally a thread about how dd should be nerfed which is posted by one of the best elementalists.

i guess he is just unknowledgeable, short sighted and poorly skilled then.

I’m confused are you saying the d/d cele ele spec shouldn’t be nerfed? Are you saying that celestial stats should be nerfed? Are you saying might stacking should be nerfed? Are you saying nothing should happen at all?

It is pretty evident d/d ele needs some nerfs. Many are calling for a reduction of stats on the celestial amulet, but that amulet isn’t even strong on 5/8 professions. Many are also calling for nerfs to might stacking, but the only builds that are really too strong are celestial engi, and celestial ele. That tells me that eles and engis need to be nerfed a bit. There other specs might not be OP, but that has never stopped nerfs from happening before, and it shouldn’t now.

Simon.3794:

coglin.1867:

I have to agree, intelligent people are aware that elementalist are not the problem. It is only the truly salty, unknowledgeable, short sighted, and poorly skilled, who claim the profession as problematic.

This is really funny, because theres literally a thread about how dd should be nerfed which is posted by one of the best elementalists.

i guess he is just unknowledgeable, short sighted and poorly skilled then.

No, he posted on changed that would not hurt the profession as whole, but, that would tone down the specific D/D builds he feels are problematic. At no point does he suggest the profession as a whole is problematic.

zapv.8051:

It is pretty evident d/d ele needs some nerfs.

D/D as a whole is not the problem. The fact that you would imply that, is the problem.

D/D x/x/x/6/6 with celestial, are what I feel is the problem. More specifically, it is a cantrip build.

So basically the OP is raging about things where are not explicit? When players say to nerf elementalist and there’s one dominant build for elementalist, it’s typically implied that that’s what they want nerfed.

coglin.1867:

Simon.3794:

coglin.1867:

I have to agree, intelligent people are aware that elementalist are not the problem. It is only the truly salty, unknowledgeable, short sighted, and poorly skilled, who claim the profession as problematic.

This is really funny, because theres literally a thread about how dd should be nerfed which is posted by one of the best elementalists.

i guess he is just unknowledgeable, short sighted and poorly skilled then.

No, he posted on changed that would not hurt the profession as whole, but, that would tone down the specific D/D builds he feels are problematic. At no point does he suggest the profession as a whole is problematic.

zapv.8051:

It is pretty evident d/d ele needs some nerfs.

D/D as a whole is not the problem. The fact that you would imply that, is the problem.

D/D x/x/x/6/6 with celestial, are what I feel is the problem. More specifically, it is a cantrip build.

Coglin, you praise Phantarams’ changes because they don’t hurt the Ele profession ‘as a whole.’ I mostly agree.

However, in the same breath you chirp on someone for merely suggesting D/D Ele needs nerfs, when it’s clearly only Cele x/x/x/6/6 builds that do. You even go so far as to call the fact anyone would say that is a problem.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Suggestions-to-shave-DD-ele-into-balance/first

I think you’re in the wrong here, because Phantaram’s suggestions clearly aren’t against nerfing D/D ‘as a whole’ as you would grill other people for suggesting.

Suggesting a nerf/fix to Drake’s Breath, Lightning Whip, affect “D/D as a whole”, not just x/x/x/6/6. They’re D/D weapon skills for crying out loud. Suggesting a nerf to Renewing Stamina hits pretty much every Ele build as well.

The best ways to shave D/D Ele aren’t always going to neatly fall outside of every single other non-overpowered D/D build. Phanta’s suggestions most reasonable people can all agree with, and yet they don’t just purely affect x/x/x/6/6 Cele Eles.

Chaith.8256:

coglin.1867:

Simon.3794:

coglin.1867:

I have to agree, intelligent people are aware that elementalist are not the problem. It is only the truly salty, unknowledgeable, short sighted, and poorly skilled, who claim the profession as problematic.

This is really funny, because theres literally a thread about how dd should be nerfed which is posted by one of the best elementalists.

i guess he is just unknowledgeable, short sighted and poorly skilled then.

No, he posted on changed that would not hurt the profession as whole, but, that would tone down the specific D/D builds he feels are problematic. At no point does he suggest the profession as a whole is problematic.

zapv.8051:

It is pretty evident d/d ele needs some nerfs.

D/D as a whole is not the problem. The fact that you would imply that, is the problem.

D/D x/x/x/6/6 with celestial, are what I feel is the problem. More specifically, it is a cantrip build.

Coglin, you praise Phantarams’ changes because they don’t hurt the Ele profession ‘as a whole.’ I mostly agree.

However, in the same breath you chirp on someone for merely suggesting D/D Ele needs nerfs, when it’s clearly only Cele x/x/x/6/6 builds that do. You even go so far as to call the fact anyone would say that is a problem.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Suggestions-to-shave-DD-ele-into-balance/first

I think you’re in the wrong here, because Phantaram’s suggestions clearly aren’t against nerfing D/D ‘as a whole’ as you would grill other people for suggesting.

Suggesting a nerf/fix to Drake’s Breath, Lightning Whip, affect “D/D as a whole”, not just x/x/x/6/6. They’re D/D weapon skills for crying out loud. Suggesting a nerf to Renewing Stamina hits pretty much every Ele build as well.

The best ways to shave D/D Ele aren’t always going to neatly fall outside of every single other non-overpowered D/D build. Phanta’s suggestions we can all agree with, and they don’t just purely affect x/x/x/6/6 Cele Eles.

i couldn’t say it any better

And when anet nerf D/D it’s 99% sure that this op spec will still be viable, but every other spec will totally useless.

Junkpile.7439:

And when anet nerf D/D it’s 99% sure that this op spec will still be viable, but every other spec will totally useless.

Well, it’s not entirely fair to say that the lesser D/D builds are very useful right now, either. At least compared to the effectiveness of Cele Ele.

Even post-shave, (if it happens) it’s not a certainty that running D/D will be useless if you aren’t running the meta build. Arenanet could potentially build up some other options at the same time as the shaves targeting 0/0/2/6/6 D/D Eles happen. It is difficult to speculate because anything could happen.

I don’t want to see all d/d eles gone forever because this one build is really strong and needs a few nerfs. To counteract this, simply nerf d/d celestial 0/0/2/6/6 ele as phantaram suggested in the other thread and then buff some of the traits in fire, earth, and air so that other builds can gain some traction. I know it is easier said than done, but for me that is the only logical process of steps.

Chaith.8256:

coglin.1867:

Simon.3794:

coglin.1867:

I have to agree, intelligent people are aware that elementalist are not the problem. It is only the truly salty, unknowledgeable, short sighted, and poorly skilled, who claim the profession as problematic.

This is really funny, because theres literally a thread about how dd should be nerfed which is posted by one of the best elementalists.

i guess he is just unknowledgeable, short sighted and poorly skilled then.

No, he posted on changed that would not hurt the profession as whole, but, that would tone down the specific D/D builds he feels are problematic. At no point does he suggest the profession as a whole is problematic.

zapv.8051:

It is pretty evident d/d ele needs some nerfs.

D/D as a whole is not the problem. The fact that you would imply that, is the problem.

D/D x/x/x/6/6 with celestial, are what I feel is the problem. More specifically, it is a cantrip build.

Coglin, you praise Phantarams’ changes because they don’t hurt the Ele profession ‘as a whole.’ I mostly agree.

However, in the same breath you chirp on someone for merely suggesting D/D Ele needs nerfs, when it’s clearly only Cele x/x/x/6/6 builds that do. You even go so far as to call the fact anyone would say that is a problem.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Suggestions-to-shave-DD-ele-into-balance/first

I think you’re in the wrong here, because Phantaram’s suggestions clearly aren’t against nerfing D/D ‘as a whole’ as you would grill other people for suggesting.

Suggesting a nerf/fix to Drake’s Breath, Lightning Whip, affect “D/D as a whole”, not just x/x/x/6/6. They’re D/D weapon skills for crying out loud. Suggesting a nerf to Renewing Stamina hits pretty much every Ele build as well.

The best ways to shave D/D Ele aren’t always going to neatly fall outside of every single other non-overpowered D/D build. Phanta’s suggestions most reasonable people can all agree with, and yet they don’t just purely affect x/x/x/6/6 Cele Eles.

So this brings the question to my mind, of why simply nerf weapons skills on a profession with no weapon swap? That would scale every build with those weapons down, yet all it does it create restrictions to the weapon set as a whole, and does nothing to help the weapons set to use other trait lines or traits.

My point is, everyone seems to be fervent about what needs to be nerfed (sometimes without even knowing why), yet so few offer equivalent suggestions to open value to other trait lines, traits, or utilities.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Is an elementalist with rampagers gear overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with clerics gear overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with berzerker gear overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with any stat set beside celestial overpowering? No.

Is an elementalist with a sigil of agony and a sigil of doom overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with a sigil of force and a sigil of accuracy overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with runes of the krait overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with runes of the ogre overpowering? No.

Is an elementalist with runes of strength, battle sigil and celestial gear specced with full bunker traits overpowering? Yes.

Arena-net, you decide what is going on here. Some players may disagree with me, but I would not call it a long shot to say that many players can agree with me. Certainly though, my opinions do not represent the gw2 community, but for this particular post, I have molded my opinions to what I see people are complaining about in the game and in the forums. Certainly, when we see people complaining about ele, its always about that cele/strength/battle/bunker spec.

Your comments here are a bit misleading and illogical for multiple reasons, and I’m surprised nobody has called you out on it.

#1: Your basis that an Elementalist should not be nerfed is that if you use some other combination that isn’t the meta (i.e Sigil of Agony), it isn’t overpowered, nevermind that using the sigil or rune would never make sense for the build. THIS does not mean certain skills should not be shaved and that is a terrible justification.

#2: This may not always be the case, but should always be factored in. An Elementalist, or specifically a D/D Elementalist isn’t overpowered with such and such rune or sigil, could also lend credence to maybe perhaps the rune or sigil is underperforming, moreso than the Elementalist NOT being overpowered with such and such combination. Ex: A rune or a sigil is so underpowered that it actually makes such and such build not overpowered. I’m not saying however that D/D Elementalists are completely overpowered.

#3: Based on your reasoning and if we apply your reasoning across the board, technically nothing needs nerfs. For example is Celestial overpowered with Necro? For Guardians? For Mesmers? For Rangers? No, so Celestial shouldn’t get nerfed. Are Runes of Strength overpowered for Rangers, Guardians, Mesmers, Necros? No then runes of strength do not need nerfs. Nevermind that the runes don’t make sense with the build and nevermind that the class may need some buffs overall. I can go on but you get the point. And like I said if we apply your reasoning across the board nothing will get nerfed.

And something has to get nerfed though right? Otherwise such and such meta build will continue to be OP. When we talk about Celestial, Strength, Battle D/D Elementalist. Neither components by themselves are OP, they may need shaving but they aren’t OP. So that leads you to the question? What do you nerf? If you nerf Celestial, Strength and Battle because of the Elementalist, than other classes and builds that use this combo suffer. If you nerf the Elementalist than other builds suffer as well. And inevitably you have to forgo one of these things.

IMO, you nerf/shave the root cause and what contributes the most to what is overpowered, to minimize the widespread repercussions. IMO, some of the D/D Elementalist’s skills need shaving and are the root causes and what contributes the most. IMO one of the root causes is the access to burning that the D/D Elementalist has. The one that clearly needs a nerf is Drake’s Breath. It has decent power scaling, AoE, 3 seconds of burn per hit, every 5 seconds. This is just one example.

Anet nerfed the ele so bad that there are only 2 builds that function properly with slight variants, and one of those 2 builds let you survive while the other lets you burst and die. They claimed in the past to have improved the ele build variety but all their “effort” ended up being a massive failure. The class doesn’t even have an elite worth using in WvW.

The only thing possible to keep up is play the meta, and that is celestial stats and might stacking right now with 0/2/0/6/6 or 0/0/2/6/6. If they nerf that the class will be literally worthless.

0/0/6/4/4 on d/d is interesting for dueling condi builds but in every other context it’s useless. Condi builds really have their shortcoming.

join us thieves for a drink. we get nerfed so much we’re already used to it. in fact, we already expect it before hand the next patch coming in…when is the next patch? january? yeah…

Xillllix.3485:

Anet nerfed the ele so bad that there are only 2 builds that function properly with slight variants, and one of those 2 builds let you survive while the other lets you burst and die. They claimed in the past to have improved the ele build variety but all their “effort” ended up being a massive failure. The class doesn’t even have an elite worth using in WvW.

The only thing possible to keep up is play the meta, and that is celestial stats and might stacking right now with 0/2/0/6/6 or 0/0/2/6/6. If they nerf that the class will be literally worthless.

0/0/6/4/4 on d/d is interesting for dueling condi builds but in every other context it’s useless. Condi builds really have their shortcoming.

Well, I can only second this. The history of Elementalists is filled with a lot of unnecessary nerfs and that is the reason a spec like D/D Cele Ele became a thing, because we basically don’t have any other spec which can be played “competitively”.

Remember RTL? Lava font? Stunbreaks?……….

Let me clarify something.

Some people here seems to be playing the game only for a very short time.

The only buffs (beside elementals) Ele has received lately, was the Blast on Frozen Burst, and the evade on Burning Speed.

So, if I read certain posts from certain people, these 2 buffs made the Ele COMPLETELY OP AND OVER THE TOP

Really people, look the Elementalist history, how long we`ve sit in the dark, NOTHING has changed beside those 2 buffs ( and Elementals ).

Please, before posting bullcrap, get your stories straight.

If you need advice on how to counter a DD Ele, send me a whisper as Ive been maining one sicne launch.

i would say game needs some serious review and rework…. lol, its not a elementalist problem its a game design problem, over time classes lost their small roles and game is getting a power creep game overall.

high risk stats at the end gives a lower risk if not fighting another power creep class, something like that.

Wranglerist.5489:

Let me clarify something.

Some people here seems to be playing the game only for a very short time.

The only buffs (beside elementals) Ele has received lately, was the Blast on Frozen Burst, and the evade on Burning Speed.

So, if I read certain posts from certain people, these 2 buffs made the Ele COMPLETELY OP AND OVER THE TOP

Really people, look the Elementalist history, how long we`ve sit in the dark, NOTHING has changed beside those 2 buffs ( and Elementals ).

Please, before posting bullcrap, get your stories straight.

If you need advice on how to counter a DD Ele, send me a whisper as Ive been maining one sicne launch.

This is completely untrue.

In addition to what you said, the buffs made to the Elementalist directly were:
-The removal of the ICD on Cleansing Water in sPvP
-The un-nerfing of Signet of Restoration in sPvP

In the game as a whole, the following changes were made:
-Strength Rune was buffed
-Sigils could now dual-proc (two swap sigils, such as Doom and Battle)
-Celestial Amulet was buffed

To be quite honest, the most direct buff to the Elementalist, in all likelihood, was the change of Signet of Restoration, which had a base 168 + Healing Power*0.08 heal per spell cast in PvP (as opposed to the current, un-nerfed 202 + Healing Power*0.1 per spell cast in all formats now). Once the signet heal became good again, the Ele became much better. In fact, when Signet of Restoration was stronger (double proccing from Evasive Arcana), the Elementalist was crazy strong.

Often times, a class’ strength in PvP is tied to its sustain and its healing. It’s no wonder then that the Warrior became stronger when Healing Signet and Cleansing Ire were buffed.

When a plain noob (elementalist) can beat skilled player (other class) with no effort at all then it is OP.

dmg-healing-condition dmg→ this is OP now because of large numbers. Nerf 2 of those and leave 1 = problem solved (like what other classes have).

coglin.1867:

I have to agree, intelligent people are aware that elementalist are not the problem. It is only the truly salty, unknowledgeable, short sighted, and poorly skilled, who claim the profession as problematic.

Builds are OP not professions.

Anet is aware of all of this. I have no doubt they let out a big sigh of relief, now that they finally got you personal permission to allow them to decide what to do about.

The problem is also that the way the Elementalist is set up is heavily flawed design, they are always going to have an overpowered bunker build, or no builds at all.

Because there is just no way they are going to balance a class with no innate defense against seven classes which do have innate defense through defensive stat advantages or class mechanics. Either you give them enough defense in their build paths to survive, in which case they stack it and make an overpowered bunker build, which we have now seen happen twice. Or you don’t give them sufficient defensive build options and they have no builds period because of a lack of survivability.

You are right, the Ele does not need to be nerfed, it needs to be fixed.

From the feel of D/D ele since I’ve been playing it extensively now, D/D eles cannot function well without at least 4 in Arcana and/or 4 in Water. Without that protection and healing, I’ve felt the bitterness of getting rolled. Also D/D didn’t become a problem because of frozen burst blast and such. A major contributing factor of their sustain is because they removed the 33% nerf on SoR.

@OP:

I think everyone knows the issue is D/D cele ele. That need the nerf, not eles as a whole.

the BEST ele in the game says what needs nerf, but we have A LOT of other good ele`s that only play WVW, he mostly play PVP, and no1 is THE BEST at that class. u have A lot of other people that are a lot better than those top pvp players.

DD Cele ele is strong, no ele it self, get rid of the celestial gear, will be a lot better, nerf maybe might stack from blast finisher, 2 instead of 3

Neko.9021:

This is completely untrue.

In addition to what you said, the buffs made to the Elementalist directly were:
-The removal of the ICD on Cleansing Water in sPvP
-The un-nerfing of Signet of Restoration in sPvP

In the game as a whole, the following changes were made:
-Strength Rune was buffed
-Sigils could now dual-proc (two swap sigils, such as Doom and Battle)
-Celestial Amulet was buffed

To be quite honest, the most direct buff to the Elementalist, in all likelihood, was the change of Signet of Restoration, which had a base 168 + Healing Power*0.08 heal per spell cast in PvP (as opposed to the current, un-nerfed 202 + Healing Power*0.1 per spell cast in all formats now). Once the signet heal became good again, the Ele became much better. In fact, when Signet of Restoration was stronger (double proccing from Evasive Arcana), the Elementalist was crazy strong.

Often times, a class’ strength in PvP is tied to its sustain and its healing. It’s no wonder then that the Warrior became stronger when Healing Signet and Cleansing Ire were buffed.

This ^

Apparently, they did nothing.

Oh, wait. They only nerfed boonspamer’s nemesis.

Guess which build will top the leaderboards.

Well I’d have to agree with this OP. I’ve played with the ele since a month or 2 after launch, and I don’t see that the class is the problem (Well I don’t see a problem at all). I may be a noob or something, but Ele doesnt kill everything it comes in contact with. Like I said it may be just me or something, but a good Necro and a good Engi, beat me more than half the time. Some peoples idea’s of a games balance as “everyone is just as good as one another” is NEVER EVER going to happen. MMO’s balance is never to say this class can beat every class and die to every class just as easy; that would be literally impossible to create. People are always going to be angry and call a class OP just because they themselves cant beat that certain class. It may be them (skill wise), or it may be that their class cant handle so many conditions, or so much burst at one time.

So on my ele, I personally feel that I can’t handle a huge condi burst… yes I have condi clear and such with cleansing fire and when I change to water attunement, but thats it. If you use all of the CD’s then you have no more condi clear. I can handle burst very well, because after the burst I can just heal up and I’m all good and such. Well by now you are probably wondering where Im going with this. My whole point is that every class has their weaknesses, and every PERSON has their weaknesses, mine being Conditions.

With D/D Ele, I would think as most people think; Celestial amulet is what makes it powerful. In my opinion is the healing power above all else. Water attunement and Evasive Arcana depend mostly on the Healing Power in your Water Trait Line and whats in the Celestial amulet. I’ve tried running D/D with a zerker amulet, and while it works pretty effectively, it’s no where near the power of what a Cele D/D does. This same concept of the celestial amulet is present in testing with other builds, but in a reverse way. With fresh air, your whole idea is to kill your enemy with a quick and fast burst, which isn’t obtainable (kind of) with a Cele amulet, only with a zerker amulet. That’s not to say people still dont use Evasive Arcana, and Water Attunement for healing; people always will.

Now in no way am I saying go and remove healing power completely from The Water trait line and cele amulet, but what I am saying is maybe lower it. This also applies to Engi’s as well. Most people complain about these two classes ability to stay alive, because of the Cele amulet, and that’s true. What I think, once again, is it’s the healing abilities these two classes have; Elementalist with their water attunement, and evasive arcana, and Engi’s with the Healing turret blasts. Try fighting a Engi and tell him/her to not blast their water fields at all and then come back and complain. Without utilizing the blasting ability Engi’s aren’t very sustainable and hard to beat.

Simply put, Cele isnt the problem, builds arent the problem, classes arent the problem. Healing Power is the OP part of these builds, in every aspect you look at, and Engi’s and Ele’s are being targeted because they are the only class capable of blasting said water fields themselves and or applying huge amounts of heals in a short amount of time.

zapv.8051:

but that amulet isn’t even strong on 5/8 professions.

So its good for nerfing then, seeing how it won’t really affect 5/8 professions?

There are a LOT of D/D Celestial Ele’s roaming in WvW lately. And they’re extremely difficult to kill. I don’t usually cry “OP” but since everyone else seems to agree that they are I’m glad I’m not imagining things. And in this case I’ll have to agree, they need some kind of fix.

Whatever they nerf, I just hope they don’t touch Signet of Restoration again. That was the most horrible experience ever.

IMO Anet should rework the game stats, so the roles would be better defined, as example berzerker would increase in power but had a negative armor value, its berzerker after all (and having equal stats on other attributes is not balanced at all since classes make less from them and other way to much), its is like a small rework on other stats value and leave celestial alone, wonder if the other stats gets modified celestial would turn out balanced at the end.

GW2 has lesser thing to balance compared to its precursor and yet everything looks so broken….

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

There are a LOT of D/D Celestial Ele’s roaming in WvW lately. And they’re extremely difficult to kill. I don’t usually cry “OP” but since everyone else seems to agree that they are I’m glad I’m not imagining things. And in this case I’ll have to agree, they need some kind of fix.

??? Cele ele has like 2300 toughness tops, depending on server bonus, you could literally 2-hit that with a thief. Also has less condi clear and healing compared to a medi guard.

I have been speending lot of times in dueling arena. Once I met one great cele ele. Well, I did 100b at 3000 power but you know what? 00266 trait ele doesnt get much dmg but also heals lot in pretty short time. i did it like, lb’s immobalize + 100b + fear me combo at 3000 power and 65% crit chance but only 75% of it correctly left dmg becuz he break stunned it. After this i saw his hp was around 60~70% of total hp, and he healed all them up shorty after this. i felt there isnt any solution upon this 00266 trait ele. they def need nerf. but it doesnt mean that only cele ele is op. (Ele itself using different amulet is also pretty op as much as pu mesmer) here is my op list of dueling : cele ele > ele = pu mesmer > dodge spam zerk thief = engi = terrormancer > guardian > warrior, ranger.

Ele is completely broken as long as i have felt so far 8n dueling arena. Ele and PU mesmer needs nerf, and buffing warrior and ranger is necessary. Others are fine. About engi, well, they are mostly OP in only small capping area, but in wide area like dueling arena provides, its fine. The problem is that turret remains eternally until some1 detroy them. turret need to have some duration that can only remain within its time, which means, a nerf a bit.

Reverence.6915:

Cele ele has like 2300 toughness tops, depending on server bonus, you could literally 2-hit that with a thief.

Nope. With almost 19K HP on average, you’d have to pull off 9k backstabs and they have to be standing still. Also, protection. Otherwise there wouldn’t be so many complaints then.

Reverence.6915:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

There are a LOT of D/D Celestial Ele’s roaming in WvW lately. And they’re extremely difficult to kill. I don’t usually cry “OP” but since everyone else seems to agree that they are I’m glad I’m not imagining things. And in this case I’ll have to agree, they need some kind of fix.

??? Cele ele has like 2300 toughness tops, depending on server bonus, you could literally 2-hit that with a thief. Also has less condi clear and healing compared to a medi guard.

A properly geared and specced full celestial ascended D/D has aproximately: 2500 armor, 1800 power, 19k HP, 190% crit damage, 33 or37% crit chance (with no fury), 500 condi damage and 800 healing power. With guard buffs that would make 21,5k HP and with protection his/her effective armor goes through the roof, no thief is ever going to 2-hit that ele, ever… unless he’s afk. With an average of 10 to 12 might stacks mid-fight it would have like 2150 power and 850 to 900 condi damage, so it would also do some nasty damage.

Kitt.2567:

i did it like, lb’s immobalize + 100b + fear me combo at 3000 power and 65% crit chance but only 75% of it correctly left dmg becuz he break stunned it. After this i saw his hp was around 60~70% of total hp, and he healed all them up shorty after this.

So you expect your one click of 100b should kill the ele? Didn’t 1 execution of 100b taking out 40% of the HP of a character already OP? Look at what the Ele had to do to react to yours. He/she had to waste a 75 seconds cooldown stun break on that, then use 2-3 healing skills to get to full HP again. You still have most of your skill and the 100b cooldown after a few seconds, while the Ele lost his only stun break—assuming they are using the meta Ele. Next time you combo again, just one 100b can give the ele big trouble.

Sunshine.5014:

Kitt.2567:

i did it like, lb’s immobalize + 100b + fear me combo at 3000 power and 65% crit chance but only 75% of it correctly left dmg becuz he break stunned it. After this i saw his hp was around 60~70% of total hp, and he healed all them up shorty after this.

So you expect your one click of 100b should kill the ele? Didn’t 1 execution of 100b taking out 40% of the HP of a character already OP? Look at what the Ele had to do to react to yours. He/she had to waste a 75 seconds cooldown stun break on that, then use 2-3 healing skills to get to full HP again. You still have most of your skill and the 100b cooldown after a few seconds, while the Ele lost his only stun break—assuming they are using the meta Ele. Next time you combo again, just one 100b can give the ele big trouble.

i am not saying that only 1time 100b should kill ele. most people in dueling arena will break stun it. But i still would mostly win except ele or pu mes class becuz, The most problem for ele is that they heal much more than shout war or medi guardian, and they got too much protection buff skill, which shout war or medi guard do not have that much, as well as having good dmg. also they hace mobility skiills. if it isnt op why every1 claim ele?

Meh. I think people’s solutions focus too much on attacking the symptoms of the disease instead of curing the disease itself.

Nobody gave even a single iota of a buck about Ele until the patch that introduced buffed Cele stats, revamped runes and revamped sigils. If I had to look somewhere for the culprits I’d look there – instead of changing elements that have never before been a problem and make D/D even worse than it already is at other builds. I don’t know what’s cool now but I remember that other classes could abuse the new runes/sigils/stats for might stacking as well.

They’ll probably just end up nerfing some random stuff on d/d, though. It’s what they always do.

So many posts in and people haven’t even deigned to link the build? For shame.

Elementalist has always treaded a knife edge between dominant (pre Dhuumfire) and utterly trashed (post Water Magic nerfs). It takes very little to make Ele very good or very bad, because what is strong is concentrated into so few elements.

I think that beyond just the Celestial Amulet and Strength/Hoelbrak Rune and double sigil changes people do need to realise that Elementalist was brought up in a few ways as well:

• ICD removed from Cleansing Water – one of the most powerful cleanse traits in game; adding 6 from Elemental Attunement per minute and another 1 from Soothing Disruption per Cantrip – up to 9 per minute in 1 single trait.
• Reversion of the Signet of Restoration nerfs once the double proccing was bugfixed
• Evade Frames on Burning Speed and Blast Finisher to Frozen Burst

At the same time, Lightning Whip stow was popularised by several Ele streamers and became part of the standard D/D Ele repertoire. Thus, a build that was otherwise entirely nerfed out of the meta; resurfaced stronger than ever before. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that as a result, the WTS teams were all running 1 or even more than 1 Cele D/D Ele.

I think that the ongoing thread argument as to whether Phantaram’s proposals – nerfing Drake’s Breath Burning ticks from 3 to 2 and Lightning Whip Stow have merit are useful, but miss the point. What’s clear is that Elementalist’s Might floor is pretty out of control at the moment.

• 75% Might Duration gives 35 seconds of 3 stacks of Might from Blasts (20×1.75)
• 9 Might from Battle Sigil
• Extra Blast Finisher to Frozen Burst contributes another 6 Might that did not otherwise exist in the previous D/D ele build.
• Another 2-3 Might from Elemental Attunement depending on ICDs

I believe and I feel the need to echo Phantaram’s sentiments in this thread that shaving Elementalist’s offense through Might and possibly weapon skill changes is the way to go rather than putting offense back into the ground. If Ele wants to bunker, it should be able to. It should not be able to also deal tons of damage with the help of Might.

Phantaram.1265:

I personally like doing some of the shaves before the might and celestial suggestions and seeing where that lands the DD ele from there, possibly including some nerf to might. It’s most important that we keep the feedback in this thread constructive though so the devs have something to work off of. Thanks friends!

Personally, I would rather see Battle Sigil and Might Runes nerfed first:

• Battle Sigil’s Might duration nerfed from 20 seconds to 15 seconds. This cuts out the third proc at 75% Might duration.
• Hoelbrak and Strength Rune Might duration nerfed from 45% total to 30% total. This cuts out 1 Might from Elemental Attunement which doesn’t sound like much but it’s there.

After that, Frozen Burst’s Blast Finisher should either be reverted; or its cooldown increased to 20 seconds (nerfs other D/D builds)

Beyond this though there needs to be build variety. 0 0 2 6 6 is favoured not just because it’s powerful, but because building offensively on the Elementalist has less return than going full bunker. This needs to change; either by adding defense to Fire and Air; or by diversifying Condi cleanse out of Cantrips/Water Magic/Evasive Arcana into other utilities and traits. Given the failure of players playing competitive tPVP in picking up Blinding Ashes; I’m in favour of the latter; but I think I’ll start a new thread for that.

nerf evasive arcana and it will change everything

Azure.8670:

nerf evasive arcana and it will change everything

Specially how would you suggest changing it?

MonMalthias.4763:

• ICD removed from Cleansing Water – one of the most powerful cleanse traits in game; adding 6 from Elemental Attunement per minute and another 1 from Soothing Disruption per Cantrip – up to 9 per minute in 1 single trait.
• Reversion of the Signet of Restoration nerfs once the double proccing was bugfixed
• Evade Frames on Burning Speed and Blast Finisher to Frozen Burst

These could also help be responsible. Blast Finisher means more Might in the case of D/D. All introduced in the same patch, even. I would rather people think of these first, before deciding on changing other things that were never a problem before.

Is it just me or is another problem with D/D eles the fact that you cant see anything that you’re fighting because theres so many kitten effects ravaging your screen?

MonMalthias.4763:

If Ele wants to bunker, it should be able to. It should not be able to also deal tons of damage with the help of Might.
[…]
but because building offensively on the Elementalist has less return than going full bunker. This needs to change; either by adding defense to Fire and Air; or by diversifying Condi cleanse out of Cantrips/Water Magic/Evasive Arcana into other utilities and traits.

basically exactly what I was posting in another ele-thread. My suggestion for a solution was to buff base-stats and in turn nerf defensive traits/utilities. Then you can propably build more offensively because higher defensive base-stats compensate defensive traits/utilities. Ele would loose sustain, but lives long enough to deal decent amounts of damage through offensive traits.

Sunshine.5014:

Kitt.2567:

i did it like, lb’s immobalize + 100b + fear me combo at 3000 power and 65% crit chance but only 75% of it correctly left dmg becuz he break stunned it. After this i saw his hp was around 60~70% of total hp, and he healed all them up shorty after this.

So you expect your one click of 100b should kill the ele? Didn’t 1 execution of 100b taking out 40% of the HP of a character already OP? Look at what the Ele had to do to react to yours. He/she had to waste a 75 seconds cooldown stun break on that, then use 2-3 healing skills to get to full HP again. You still have most of your skill and the 100b cooldown after a few seconds, while the Ele lost his only stun break—assuming they are using the meta Ele. Next time you combo again, just one 100b can give the ele big trouble.

you know how hard is to land a full freaking hundred blade?

it’s 100 times harder then pressing water attunement +5 +2 +dodge +gain aura.

not to mention, fear me+ immo? come on, all he needs to do is press cleansing fire, and walk out of the way or he can use 10 trillion other ways

even a freaking stunned lightning flash can completely avoid hundred blade.

a ele who hit by it should make his game automatically self uninstall

The Game Slayer.7632:

Is an elementalist with rampagers gear overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with clerics gear overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with berzerker gear overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with any stat set beside celestial overpowering? No.

Is an elementalist with a sigil of agony and a sigil of doom overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with a sigil of force and a sigil of accuracy overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with runes of the krait overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with runes of the ogre overpowering? No.

Is an elementalist with runes of strength, battle sigil and celestial gear specced with full bunker traits overpowering? Yes.

Arena-net, you decide what is going on here. Some players may disagree with me, but I would not call it a long shot to say that many players can agree with me. Certainly though, my opinions do not represent the gw2 community, but for this particular post, I have molded my opinions to what I see people are complaining about in the game and in the forums. Certainly, when we see people complaining about ele, its always about that cele/strength/battle/bunker spec.

Elementalist is very balanced right now. We need more classes to be able to play hibrid and less super spike dmg or super bunker builds. The problematic classes are thief and mesmer (thief has been getting balance updates patch after patch, but mesmer still very broken). Necro right now is a good example of what a dps class should look like. Fearmancer good 1v1 but they dont blink/teleport all around the map all the time. Devs are doing good job making celestial builds viable. Looking forward to see celestial thief and mesmer been viable.

coglin.1867:

I have to agree, intelligent people are aware that elementalist are not the problem. It is only the truly salty, unknowledgeable, short sighted, and poorly skilled, who claim the profession as problematic.

Builds are OP not professions.

Anet is aware of all of this. I have no doubt they let out a big sigh of relief, now that they finally got you personal permission to allow them to decide what to do about.

sir i couldn’t agree with you more.