Guild Wars 2

I can spend 3 dodges trying not to get hit by anything while the other engi is in stealth but i still get hit by something that i wouldn’t get hit by if the other engi wasn’t in stealth. I think it’s silly. The other engi gets a free hit of anything they choose on you. chill nades, pull, pry bar, shrapnel nades, geomancy. If you are an engi, guard, ranger, or an ele i don’t see what you could do to prevent this except to spam random dodges, but even still you have a very high chance of getting hit.

It’s a L2P issue.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnet
^if this is what we’re talking about. For the whole duration of the channel there’s a semi-transparent grayish sway/line between you and engineer. Once you see it, count one second and dodge – no ‘spam random dodges’ involved’.
If you get hit you can still stunbreak before you reach that engineer and avoid getting hit.
I would be concern about more intelligent players that bait out your dodge with tool kit stow just to do it 5 seconds later.

I think he’s talking more about Engies pulling while in stealth, but still, either they’ve wasted some finishers with a smoke bomb or the 5 skill on the FT to get that stealth, or they’ve used up Toss Elixir S, which removes one of their best ways of getting out of a bad situation. Also, Stability screws over the Magnet, like it does all pulls, and, as mentioned before, Stun Breaking in the middle of the pull stops it dead. If the Engie isn’t in stealth and starts the pull, and you see him starting the pull, it’s your fault if you get pulled because, as stated before, it has a 1 1/4s cast time, and the Engie’s holding a magnet in his hands while he’s casting, and there are the lines between the Engie and the target. No good Engie should be getting hit by Magnet except if they’re distracted fighting someone else. As for Ele and Guard, they should have more than enough Stun Breaks and teleports to get away from the Engie, and the Ranger has a ton of evades, aside from the fact that they have really easy access to Vigor. If anything, the Necro has the worst time with Magnet, but that comes from the fact that they don’t do well with CC at all.

scabrous.7835:

It’s a L2P issue.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnet
^if this is what we’re talking about. For the whole duration of the channel there’s a semi-transparent grayish sway/line between you and engineer. Once you see it, count one second and dodge – no ‘spam random dodges’ involved’.
If you get hit you can still stunbreak before you reach that engineer and avoid getting hit.
I would be concern about more intelligent players that bait out your dodge with tool kit stow just to do it 5 seconds later.

Clearly I meant from stealth.

You can’t avoid chill nades while the person casting that spell is from stealth.

It’s rng whether or not you dodge randomly at the given moment.

Maybe if the person in stealth appeared apon using a certain list of skills.

BoB.6082:

scabrous.7835:

It’s a L2P issue.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnet
^if this is what we’re talking about. For the whole duration of the channel there’s a semi-transparent grayish sway/line between you and engineer. Once you see it, count one second and dodge – no ‘spam random dodges’ involved’.
If you get hit you can still stunbreak before you reach that engineer and avoid getting hit.
I would be concern about more intelligent players that bait out your dodge with tool kit stow just to do it 5 seconds later.

Clearly I meant from stealth.

You can’t avoid chill nades while the person casting that spell is from stealth.

It’s rng whether or not you dodge randomly at the given moment.

Also, don’t just think i meant chill nades I meant every skill I had mentioned previously.

There are far worst abilities that can land on you from Stealth by other professions, so im not really sure what you really want to accomplish here. No more casting spells on someone while in Stealth?

Or are you just venting?

I’m in agreement with Terrahero. I don’t understand the point of this topic. Engineer isn’t the only profession that can stealth. Any class can attack from stealth. Entire zergs use Mesmer veil or mass invisibility and attack from stealth.

Well yeah, it is extremely clear it is trolling, when literally 1/2 of all the professions have access to stealth, and they are making a thread “crying fowl” that the engineer of all professions is OP because they can hit you from stealth, yet mentions nothing of the thief or mesmers ability to stealth mass amounts of players.

coglin.1867:

Well yeah, it is extremely clear it is trolling, when literally 1/2 of all the professions have access to stealth, and they are making a thread “crying fowl” that the engineer of all professions is OP because they can hit you from stealth, yet mentions nothing of the thief or mesmers ability to stealth mass amounts of players.

Ranger and Mesmer don’t have stealth pulls. Thieves don’t get a 3 second block from taking their pull so it isn’t in any meta builds. Meanwhile every single Engineer uses Tool Kit with every current meta build.

glaphen.5230:

Meanwhile every single Engineer uses Tool Kit with every current meta build.

Well, this is false. You basically can’t run Bomb Kit and Tool Kit in the same build. An overwhelmingly large % of Engies with Bomb Kit don’t have Tool Kit. Bomb kit definitely gets play, and is included in meta builds.

I’ve been running Elixir S and Toolkit together since fourth quarter 2012, and I can tell you, it’s not always been a popular choice among Engineers.

Seeing as every Mesmer you face will use phantasms from stealth to front load surprise damage, and every Thief has a few good powerful front loaded damage surprises from stealth, why is it too much for a 60s CD Engineer stealth to be potentially devastating? Stealth is inherently good.

If you get pulled from stealth, try stunbreaking to counter the Engineer’s subsequent combo. Guaranteed, it won’t be a wasted stunbreak if the Engineer who’s pulling you is good.

So, basically, you got killed by a random Engi and are saying that the reason you lost is because using Elixir S→Magnet is OP and should be nerfed?

Chaith.8256:

glaphen.5230:

Meanwhile every single Engineer uses Tool Kit with every current meta build.

Well, this is false. You basically can’t run Bomb Kit and Tool Kit in the same build. An overwhelmingly large % of Engies with Bomb Kit don’t have Tool Kit. Bomb kit definitely gets play, and is included in meta builds.

I’ve been running Elixir S and Toolkit together since fourth quarter 2012, and I can tell you, it’s not always been a popular choice among Engineers.

Seeing as every Mesmer you face will use phantasms from stealth to front load surprise damage, and every Thief has a few good powerful front loaded damage surprises from stealth, why is it too much for a 60s CD Engineer stealth to be potentially devastating? Stealth is inherently good.

If you get pulled from stealth, try stunbreaking to counter the Engineer’s subsequent combo. Guaranteed, it won’t be a wasted stunbreak if the Engineer who’s pulling you is good.

Are you high? 90% of Engineers use Tool Kit currently since all decap and all pistol/shield/grenade/bomb/Tool Kit Engineers all use it obviously. These two are the only existent builds outside of hotjoin and very very few change Tool Kit for Slick Shoes or Elixir R. Engineer can stealth by using Smoke Bomb before Healing Turret sacrificing 1320 health for a 3 second AoE stealth that can have the same cooldown as his heal. Either way I could care less in anywhere other than kittenhammer where Thief has the same problem or WvW.

Also Mesmer stealth is only scary if you get hit by moa since their illusions don’t spawn stealthed.

Chaith.8256:

You basically can’t run Bomb Kit and Tool Kit in the same build. An overwhelmingly large % of Engies with Bomb Kit don’t have Tool Kit.

TIL I’ve been playing bunker engi wrong all along.

On-topic though, I don’t feel stealth-magnet pull is really an issue, as stealthing requires blowing important skills with (mostly) long cooldowns, or taking other skills to get the effect (elixir s or whatever shorter cooldown blast finisher you wouldn’t normally take), and is mostly broken if an enemy is close to you (most all of the blast finishers deal damage). Not to mention the glitches on the pull itself— I cannot count the number of times I’ve wasted a pry bar because the enemy wasn’t pulled all the way to me, even though they used no stun breakers.

Sins.4782:

Chaith.8256:

You basically can’t run Bomb Kit and Tool Kit in the same build. An overwhelmingly large % of Engies with Bomb Kit don’t have Tool Kit.

TIL I’ve been playing bunker engi wrong all along.

I was referring to damage oriented builds, not bunkers! Bombs & Toolkit is somewhat awkward due to the lack of chasing ability / ie: hitting moving targets.

glaphen.5230:

coglin.1867:

Well yeah, it is extremely clear it is trolling, when literally 1/2 of all the professions have access to stealth, and they are making a thread “crying fowl” that the engineer of all professions is OP because they can hit you from stealth, yet mentions nothing of the thief or mesmers ability to stealth mass amounts of players.

Ranger and Mesmer don’t have stealth pulls. Thieves don’t get a 3 second block from taking their pull so it isn’t in any meta builds. Meanwhile every single Engineer uses Tool Kit with every current meta build.

Umm, yes, mesmer absolutely does, and theirs is AoE.

That’s what stealth does.

If you don’t think “Basilisk Venom” strikes in stealth is a problem(thieves can keep stealth if you used block skill), then you shouldn’t feel any problem with stealth magnet pull. Engi’s stealth isn’t long, cast stability, random dodge after 1~1.5secs, trait, use environment to LoS or prevent pull, or AoE blind if you can. There are lots of way to deal with it, it’s not a unsolvable problem.

And mesmer’s pull is as same as stealth pull, since you can’t predict when you will get pulled, unless you ran away from it. Ranger’s LB pushback is hard to dodge too, you don’t know when he will use it.

scabrous.7835:

It’s a L2P issue.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnet
^if this is what we’re talking about. For the whole duration of the channel there’s a semi-transparent grayish sway/line between you and engineer. Once you see it, count one second and dodge – no ‘spam random dodges’ involved’.
If you get hit you can still stunbreak before you reach that engineer and avoid getting hit.
I would be concern about more intelligent players that bait out your dodge with tool kit stow just to do it 5 seconds later.

Invisibility is bad for any competitive game.

Aza.2105:

scabrous.7835:

It’s a L2P issue.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnet
^if this is what we’re talking about. For the whole duration of the channel there’s a semi-transparent grayish sway/line between you and engineer. Once you see it, count one second and dodge – no ‘spam random dodges’ involved’.
If you get hit you can still stunbreak before you reach that engineer and avoid getting hit.
I would be concern about more intelligent players that bait out your dodge with tool kit stow just to do it 5 seconds later.

Invisibility is bad for any competitive game.

Not sure I agree with you there.

my fault guys I’ve been stealthing and promptly 100-0ing people with my hgh zerker build, I kidd of course but seriously since when did a stealthing engineer become an issue when apparently every engineer is decap.

My question is, when did Tool Kit become OP?

NinjaYoshi.3429:

My question is, when did Tool Kit become OP?

Arguably when the shield was buffed from 2 → 3 seconds.

But I think it’s always been great!

Oh I agree, the Tool Kit’s absolutely wonderful, especially on a glass Rifle Build. I didn’t realize they had buffed the block time though, I thought it was always 3s. I do love that they buffed the throw for power builds.

Yeah, Gear Shield achieving block parity with Warrior /Shield was when TK became quite strong. The only thing keeping TK from being absolutely OP are the desync issues with Magnet pull that throw people in the air or pull only half distance, and the fact that the Throw Wrench is not very useful untraited.

Traited Gear Shield may actually be too strong, and I believe that the block duration should go back down to 2 seconds if Magnet Pull’s desync issues are ever fixed. More offense for less defense.

Regarding the issues brought up in the original post, I don’t see how Stealth plays are any more OP when executed by the Engineer as opposed to the Thief or Mesmer or any other class with reliable Stealth. In fact, Engineer traits have little interaction with Stealth at all except On Immobilise (Cloaking Device), so Engineers must burn other utilities or cooldowns in order to achieve Stealth – no weapon skills provide Stealth by themselves except as Combo Finishers.

Stealth as a mechanic in general needs looking at, but Stealthed Magnet is hardly a gamebreaking issue considering the bugs. Heck, players get hit by unstealthed Magnet all the time despite it being a 1.5 second cast with clear telegraphing from the Engineer and also centred upon the victim. Temporal Curtain → Into the Void or Path of Scars or Binding Blade → Pull are all stronger pulls, with easier setup and faster casting, albeit with shorter range. I would argue that the skill is balanced as it is in the context of Pulls.

1.25s cast time, but your point still remains the same Mon. It’s amazing how few people know how to dodge Magnet.

NinjaYoshi.3429:

1.25s cast time, but your point still remains the same Mon. It’s amazing how few people know how to dodge Magnet.

There’s actually a bit of windup and aftercast such that the total casting time before the pull executes is closer to 1.5 seconds than the listed 1.25. Desync on a successful pull has sometimes resulted on the pulled victim arriving even later than that, which leads to misses on queued Pry Bars or Jump Shots. It’s not 1.25 seconds, is what I’m getting at.

Good point. My biggest issue with the pull is when the victim appears to rubberband, teleporting back to where they were originally, then back to where they’re supposed to be.

Aza.2105:

Invisibility is bad for any competitive game.

It’s not, as long as it cant use to much.