(edited by LUST.7241)
[Engineer] Flamethrower Skill Concerns
- Why does [Flame Blast]’s explosion not count as an Explosion?
What does this even mean?
Genesis Theory [GT] (HoD)
- Why does [Flame Blast]’s explosion not count as an Explosion?
What does this even mean?
Engineers have traits that benefit explosions.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
- Why does [Flame Blast]’s explosion not count as an Explosion?
What does this even mean?
Engineers have traits that benefit explosions.
I suppose that makes sense then. Carry on.
Genesis Theory [GT] (HoD)
I think most of all the Flamethrower needs an identity. This is an issue with a lot of utility skills in GW2, but is more prominent on Elementalist and Engineer due to the raw number of skills: Skills need a unique identity or a proper differentiation in a shared group identity.
As an example, the grenade kit is a long-range saturation tool. It hits hard, it hits a lot, but it’s not accurate at all at that range. I realize this is not the extend of it’s balance or power, but identity-wise a new player will quickly grasp what this kit does and doesn’t do.
Another good example is Glamour skills on Mesmers. All four are about group support in an area, and each one is highly unique. Teleport friendlies, protect from projectiles via boxing in the enemies, delete boons and conditions and stealth people.
The weapon kits… yeah. They are problematic. I think the Elixir Gun is flat out the best-designed weapon kit in this regard, having a clear role and focusing nearly entirely on it. Support. Healing, condition cleansing, blast finishers, debuffing targets in important ways (poison, cripple, weakness). It’s a pure support weapon and it’s really good at what it does.
The Flamethrower needs such an identiy. Proposal:
Flamethrower – the area-denial tool
I would make it a weapon adept at making enemies not want to stand where it is aimed, and/or in too-close proximity to the Engineer wielding it. This would thematically fit the Juggernaut trait, adding extra defence. Specific changes would be:
- Flame Jet scorches earth and walls it touches, which causes targets on it to burn for 1s, every second. Basically, don’t stand in the fire. The scorch-effect lasts ~5-6 seconds and is applied with every tick, so sweeping the flame around really covers a huge area.
- Flame Blast loses potency while travelling. When exploded close enough it actually knocks targets away from the point of explosion, farther the close it is exploded.
- Air Blast also resets all scorching it hits to max-duration.
- Flame wall changed, now a curve-shaped wall which burns for X seconds and then scorches the area for X*4 further seconds.
- Utility skill changed, you throw an unlit molachev kittentail at a target location. Any enemy hit will be covered for 4s, the area is also covered for 4s. Any burning on any target (even friendly) in the area will ignore the area and all enemy targets covered in it, making them burn for 3s and run away for 1s.
- Juggernaut changed: Might gain removed, Toughness boosted by 500 total, burning on you lasts 50% shorter, walk 20% slower but immune to blowout, knockdown and knockback.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
- Juggernaut changed: Might gain removed, Toughness boosted by 500 total, burning on you lasts 50% shorter, walk 20% slower but immune to blowout, knockdown and knockback.
I like the idea of changing Juggernaut but I’m not sure about this exactly, mostly because traits which cause negative affects on the user don’t really exist anywhere.
Also 500 is a really big number.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
The 500 would be intentional as a result of the slower walking speed. The whole weapon would be about standing somewhere and denying area. To that end, the trait is both a boon and a curse, it means you need to unequip the FT to be mobile, but as long as you got it equipped, direct damage will have some serious issues with overpowering you.
Miiiight be unbalanced in sPvP ofc, since combat is forced onto the points there. But considering that all this would still not push the FT to the decap power of the current loadout we use for that, it’s a non-issue IMO.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
The 500 would be intentional as a result of the slower walking speed. The whole weapon would be about standing somewhere and denying area. To that end, the trait is both a boon and a curse, it means you need to unequip the FT to be mobile, but as long as you got it equipped, direct damage will have some serious issues with overpowering you.
Miiiight be unbalanced in sPvP ofc, since combat is forced onto the points there. But considering that all this would still not push the FT to the decap power of the current loadout we use for that, it’s a non-issue IMO.
Lazy suggestion; Move the reduced movement speed to FT 1, so you move slower while spraying. You move to a point, pull out the flamethrower and start redecorating.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
Hrm, that’d be even better. But then I’d change the passive bonus of the trait to be “while casting/channelling”.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
The main saving grace of FT are the knockback (great CC) and blind (good for stomping in PvP). The rest of the skills might as well not be there.
1 skill is very low dps, short range, and still bugged to the point that it can’t hit targets at different elevations from you. Burn is too short for a condi build, damage is too low for a power build. Either buff direct damage or make the burn last longer.
2 is great when it hits, but it often bugs out and rolls into the terrain instead of exploding and just sits there, making the skill unusable for a long period of time. Needs bugfix
3 is great when it works, has problems hitting target due to narrow cone and unadvertised minimum range. I think this one is fine since there’s a high risk that it won’t hit, but the knockback is low cooldown and aoe so the reward is also high.
4 is useful for condi builds and stacking might. Would like it if it did more damage, but not necessary. Engi has fire fields from other sources, so this is not really a useful skill.
5 is great for stomping in PvP (use right before players try to interrupt you). No change needed
That being said, since FT direct damage is so low, the 15% damage and juggernaut traits are both quite useless since even in a power build it does subpar damage (with the +damage traits) compared to other weapons/kits. Buffing these could be a way of making it a viable direct-damage or tanking kit.
Best i can tell, quite a few skills were balanced with certain traits in mind.
For flamethrower this was juggernaut. But said trait suffered a late beta nerf, and the skills themselves where not rebalanced accordingly.
The beta juggernaut apparently gave the engineer permanent stability while the flamethrower was equipped. But something in the way it was implemented caused issues and it was replaced by repeated might stacking.
Also, #3 was early on modified to have the blast be player triggered rather than distance traveled. If it does not pop it was because the player forgot to hit the button a second time, not because it hit some terrain before X distance.
On that note i would not mind seeing shield #5 and Throw Wrench be reworked to not be boomerangs, as much like the blast on Flamethrower #3 the return depends on them not hitting terrain.
Between (the original) juggernaut, bombs, grenades and turrets, i keep getting the impression that engineers were designed for capture point sieges and little else. And outside of SPVP the profession suffers to some degree because of that.
No.
To this whole tread.
Engineer is flexible and powerful enough in PvP without a single utility skill on no cooldown turning him into a monster. Combine that with what the engineer can already do and one engineer will just destroy everything.
The Flamethrower needs such an identiy. Proposal:
Flamethrower – the area-denial tool
I would make it a weapon adept at making enemies not want to stand where it is aimed, and/or in too-close proximity to the Engineer wielding it. This would thematically fit the Juggernaut trait, adding extra defence. Specific changes would be:
- Flame Jet scorches earth and walls it touches, which causes targets on it to burn for 1s, every second. Basically, don’t stand in the fire. The scorch-effect lasts ~5-6 seconds and is applied with every tick, so sweeping the flame around really covers a huge area.
- Flame Blast loses potency while travelling. When exploded close enough it actually knocks targets away from the point of explosion, farther the close it is exploded.
- Air Blast also resets all scorching it hits to max-duration.
- Flame wall changed, now a curve-shaped wall which burns for X seconds and then scorches the area for X*4 further seconds.
- Utility skill changed, you throw an unlit molachev kittentail at a target location. Any enemy hit will be covered for 4s, the area is also covered for 4s. Any burning on any target (even friendly) in the area will ignore the area and all enemy targets covered in it, making them burn for 3s and run away for 1s.
- Juggernaut changed: Might gain removed, Toughness boosted by 500 total, burning on you lasts 50% shorter, walk 20% slower but immune to blowout, knockdown and knockback.
I don’t want using the Flamethrower to be an Engineers #1 kit or have to be reinvisioned…I just think it should be closer to the other kits instead of being significantly different even when fully traited. The way it’s now is like fraction complete.
That said, I do like the proposed changes, though I’d change it a bit (if considered).
- Instead of [Flame Jet] scorching the earth, I’d add that effect to [Flame Blast]’s roll
- If [Flame Jet] fires over [Naplam] (flame wall), scorch earth to a certain range.
- [Air Blast] can also scorch earth if blasted over [Naplam] but to a slightly greater range than [Flame Jet].
Which would mean, better synergy with using all FT skills.
I wouldn’t change the Juggernaut trait. The Might bonus is quite useful when roaming and even playing solo…you actually feel like a Juggernaut and the Toughness bonus is just the right amount.
The immunity though would be a nice Inventions or Tools Grandmaster trait, but I wouldn’t say complete immunity is the way to go. If a Flamethrower is to area-deny, then that idea should go along the lines of:
- Gain stability periodically (every 20s for 5s) when wielding a Flamethrower and gain a Fire Shield (4s) if interrupted (20s cooldown)
Shouldn’t be tied to Juggernaut or should have complete immunity. We should be still be killable and still have to risk venturing into traitlines.
I do like the proposed change to the utility skill, if it actually does noticeable damage or is useful like the other utility skills we get with other kits.
No.
To this whole tread.
Engineer is flexible and powerful enough in PvP without a single utility skill on no cooldown turning him into a monster. Combine that with what the engineer can already do and one engineer will just destroy everything.
- None of this effects condition damage (which the majority of sPvP engineers are).
- None of this effects anything but the Flamethrower.
- No one is saying Engineers aren’t flexible or weak in PvP.
- These are only concerns as to why things were overlooked.
(edited by LUST.7241)
Flame jet should be wider. From my experience it still misses a lot when strafing or getting strafed.
And #5 is bad imo, yes its sometimes helfpful for finishing someone, what about the rest of the time? I cant see how a melee range skill that blinds just once is okay for people. It should at least last a few seconds for the flamethrower to fully vent, doing multiple blinds during the process.
No.
To this whole tread.
Engineer is flexible and powerful enough in PvP without a single utility skill on no cooldown turning him into a monster. Combine that with what the engineer can already do and one engineer will just destroy everything.
What specifically do you not want changed about the FT?
How many hours on a FT engineer do you have? I ask because the pronouns you use direct every comment you made as exclusive. Suggesting you have little to know experience on an engineer, or you would say we, me, or us. Comes off as a very non-constructive and bias reasoning to simply not give “any profession but my main” and positive changes.
Honestly though, I think the majority of the skills are in good shape, except for flame jet. Which either needs a 1s burn added to the first tic, or a percentage of direct damage increased.
As far as flame blast, I do not ever see them making the ’blast" a blast finisher. In the end, they wil simply change the name like they did with explosive shot.
It should at least last a few seconds for the flamethrower to fully vent, doing multiple blinds during the process.
Be cool if smoke actually vented from the gun or backpack in a cloud that lasted a few seconds and obscured vision. Though it’s not that anyone wants more particle effects in the game anywhere and it might just end up looking like a weird version of smokescreen so maybe not.
Be cool if smoke actually vented from the gun or backpack in a cloud that lasted a few seconds and obscured vision. Though it’s not that anyone wants more particle effects in the game anywhere and it might just end up looking like a weird version of smokescreen so maybe not.
Someone suggested flamethrower 5 should be a 1 second smoke field. I love this idea since it opens up more combos. Elixir gun 4, turret blast or shield 4 for a bit of AoE stealth to prevent friendly stomps, throw wrench for a projectile boomerang blind, rifle 5 or rocket boots for getaway stealth. etc!
No.
To this whole tread.
Engineer is flexible and powerful enough in PvP without a single utility skill on no cooldown turning him into a monster. Combine that with what the engineer can already do and one engineer will just destroy everything.
What specifically do you not want changed about the FT?
How many hours on a FT engineer do you have? I ask because the pronouns you use direct every comment you made as exclusive. Suggesting you have little to know experience on an engineer, or you would say we, me, or us. Comes off as a very non-constructive and bias reasoning to simply not give “any profession but my main” and positive changes.
Honestly though, I think the majority of the skills are in good shape, except for flame jet. Which either needs a 1s burn added to the first tic, or a percentage of direct damage increased.
As far as flame blast, I do not ever see them making the ’blast" a blast finisher. In the end, they wil simply change the name like they did with explosive shot.
That last part of what you said is what I meant. The FT is already pretty powerful. And the main reason engineers can do anything and everything in PvP – I play one too – is because we can easily swap in and out of kits without a cooldown. Asside from the burning tick on FJ being in the first second and not the last there’s little to nothing I’d change.
Nobody wants to see a grenade engie who, when you catch upto him as any close range class, picks up the FT and just wrecks you with it up close. The class draws its strenght in PvP from kits and their lack of cooldown. Make those kits more powerful and things spiral out of control.
Ft in pvp is all about the knockback in a gimmicky build for an equally gimmicky gamemode.
In a gamemode that isnt about huddling on a point and trying to shove the other team of them, its a poor weapon.
I never ever see an engineer use a FT in pve or in wvw, outside of the upleveld players who simply dont have anything else yet or dont yet realize how bad it really is. But trust me after they killed themselves a few times hitting someone with retaliation, FT is going of their hotbar so fast it breaks the sound barrier.
A single skill being usefull in a single gamemode is no reason to restrict any improvements to the FT, because its a bad weapon in other gamemodes.
Ft1 is bad damage and suicide if used against anyone with retaliation.
Ft2 has a good burst potential, but is easily bugged due to the nature of the ability, also fairly uninteresting.
Ft3 is a generic knockback, but not a hard CC like Overcharged Shot as it doesnt come with a knockdown or anything. Its a good ability.
Ft4 is utterly useless, a 10sec wall that causes 1 tick of burning to whoever passes through it. Its obviously meant as a deterent, but it doesnt deter anyone or anything as its damage is pitiful.
Ft5 has some good use, but its cooldown is ridiculously long for what it does and how short its range is.
The FT was originally designed as a control weapon, with area denial. Nr5 was a pull before it was changed to the much worst blind.
Nobody wants to see a grenade engie who, when you catch upto him as any close range class, picks up the FT and just wrecks you with it up close.
Not sure what you mean by this. Right now grenades are far more effective than the flamethrower is at all ranges for damage.
Flame thrower has good potential but it feels like it doesn’t know what it is. I can see it in a hybrid build because it’s hybrid damage.
Ft1- Will kill you on retal burn should be at beginning
Ft2- buggy
Ft3- I find is really strong ability with low cooldown
Ft4- fire field nothing really more then that.
Ft5- area is small doesn’t feel like it offers a ton of utility I think a 2 sec field is fair.
I like Ft alot but I usually end up back with bombs or nades after playing with it for any length of time.
[Good Fights]Sinndicate{Ele}Sinactic{Engineer}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}
Ft5 has some good use, but its cooldown is ridiculously long for what it does and how short its range is.
Often i wonder if Arenanet set the weapon skill cooldowns more on how far the button was from #1 than the actual value of the skill on that button.
1 – Flame Jet – Increase damage by 25% and double the burning upkeep. Cap incoming retaliation procs on this ability.
2 – Flame Blast – Add a blast finisher skill fact, perhaps increase the cooldown (slightly) to compensate.
3 – Air Blast – Fine as it is, but fix the issues with terrain height and the ability simply misfiring fairly often.
4 – Napalm – This ability is also pretty fine, but the cooldown is a tad long. Perhaps reduce the flight-time, it’s fairly slow.
5 – Smoke Vent – This ability is a placeholder that was never replaced. Lazy. It’s only real use right now is for stomping and occasionally if you get caught by a stun. Add a smoke field, but keep the cooldown and instant cast that doesn’t interrupt whatever else you’re doing.
Zobb – Asura Engineer – Seafarer’s Rest
FT1- Allow free aiming of it. Dunno why you can only aim at ground level, people can jump up a rock or two and avoid a lot of skills.
FT2- Would be nice to add a blast finisher on the detonation to synergize with the fire field.
FT3- Pretty good imo. No need to make cc on engi any stronger than it already is.
FT4- it’s ok but aside from being a fire field on a fire based weapon, it doesn’t do much else. Could add the functionality that FT1 through napalm amplifies the burn at the end (3 seconds vs 1). Having the skills in a kit work with one another would greatly attract players who are looking for well rounded weapons.
FT5- I’d suggest changing this to creating a smoke field on your location for 2 seconds, blinding once at the start and every second after (total of 3 blinds). I’d be fine with a small decrease in blind duration (2 seconds per pulse) but a single blind with such a small radius is hard to work with other than stomping.
Other than that I enjoy Flamethrower, it certainly is scary to go up against and conceals the battlefield a bit. I don’t think the traits need a fix as much as the kit’s skills need synergy.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”