Guild Wars 2

I do look back fondly on the days of HgH builds being used competitively in PvP. Looking back on Elixir traits and utilites, It’s been a while since I would have considered using more than one Elixir, on my Engineer.

There are big things choking the diversity of Engi builds in PvP. As it stands right now, the advantage that the meta Engineer builds have over Elixir builds are that the sustain numbers are better, with only a small hit to condition removal, and frees up a utility slot for another kit. Elixir builds have become extremely inefficient in contrast.

• Backpack Regenerator. This trait heals 7,020 every 60 seconds, base. Equipping Celestial amulet increases this number about 19%. That’s like, not quite as 1/3 of a Healing Signet just from a trait alone. There’s never really a time where having a baby-healing signet is going to be bad. It’s simply a no brainer in PvP.

• Healing Turret. Compared to running 3 Elixirs, and Cleaning Formula 409, Healing Turret has more infrequent but comparable condition removal, untraited. Neither are that impressive, at around 8-10 condition removals a minute for fully traited Elixirs, and 6-8 for Healing Turret. It’s one or the other, so they are mutually exclusive.

Proposal:

Make some tweaks to Elixirs so when they’re fully traited, they’re more competitive an option, compared with just taking Backpack Regenerator and Healing Turret alone. Could possibly accompany a shave to Healing Turret and Backpack Regenerator.

Areas of concern:

• Randomness on Elixirs (I’m about to go ham on this one)
• Lack of sustain

Randomness of Elixirs.

Across PvP communities of all genres, there’s one thing that’s shared, and that is a hatred of significant, game changing effects being managed by RNG. First up, there’s the ever-infuriating Elixir X.

“Rampage please, Rampage please, Rampage please, DANGIT!” -Engineers 2012-2014

• I suggest that a 50% health threshold is imposed into the ability. Above the health threshold, Tornado is activated. This makes sense because using Tornado at low health is EXTREMELY dangerous due to how squishy and helpless it is. Conversely, this gives Engineers a bit of a negative condition – Rampage (the one you want 90% of the time) can only be achieved sub-50% health. That’s reducing it somewhat to a come-back mechanic that can’t just be activated at will. Have the on-bar Elixir X Icon change colors from purple to blood red when it’s ready to rampage. Make it so. (Elementalist Summon Pet Elite was changed in this way, recently)

Second up is the randomness of Elixir H. It’s frustrating never knowing exactly how much protection, vigor, or regeneration your build has.

• I suggest that the Protection, Regen, and Swiftness, Vigor across the toss ability and the drink ability to be reduced by 50%. Yes. Base reduced by 50%. However, instead rolling for a boon, give all 3 boons per ability in a reduced form. Now I can reactively put up a small protection and swiftness. Thanks.

• I suggest the same be done to Toss Elixir B. Drinking Elixir B already gives all the buffs that it advertises.

Third up is the always forgotten Elixir U. The one that gives you quickness, and in exchange, debuffs you with frenzy, or removes all of your endurance and cuts endurance gain by 50%. This one is like that relative you hate but always have to socialize with on Christmas.

• I suggest the drink ability be changed entirely. Who needs quickness for that cost? New ability: Elixir U: Drink Elixir U, causing light to emit from your body, destroying projectiles and blinding enemies every second. Radius: 180. Duration: 4s. Breaks Stun. 40 Second recharge.

Lack of Sustain:

Giving up Backpack Regenerator and Healing Turret in favor of Elixir H creates a huge drop in healing per minute. Without healing power, Elixir builds drop about 16,680 healing per minute on themselves from Elixir H. Ignoring Regen on both Healing Turret and Elixirs (it’s random on Elixirs,) and assuming Healing Turret is picked up, Meta builds drop about 27,180 healing per minute on themselves from Healing Turret and Backpack Regenerator. They also drop 10,080 healing on up to 5 allies. LOL.

For traited Elixir builds to match the sustain of meta builds, they’d have to increase their healing done to themselves per minute by 63%, and they’d still be giving up potential 10k friendly healing a minute.

There is just a massive balance discrepancy here.

• I suggest that the trait ‘Potent Elixirs’ be buffed. Currently it’s a master level trait used approximately never, under any circumstances, and increases the duration of elixirs by 20%. I suggest that a healing effect be added to it. New trait: Potent Elixirs: Increases elixir durations and elixirs heal those affected. Healing: 800. Still won’t come close, but it’s a fair option, considering you either sacrifice HgH or condition removal.

I think an Elixir re-vamp would be super welcome. Mostly just wishful thinking though!

Comment on balance of my suggestions if you can.

Edit:

Please remove the damage component on Acidic Elixirs. It causes Elixir S to apply revealed instead of stealth.. it’s kind of a joke within a joke.

I really like the suggestion to remove some of the randomness. Having a skill give random boons or random effects means you can’t really use it reactively. While I understand they made the design-choice to have engineers be a little quirky, perhaps there is some other way to integrate that theme (overcharged shot is a good example)?

A little off-topic, but a big part of the reason why so many other builds don’t see play is how strong/reliant engies are on kits. It’s really hard for an engie to get by with just mainhand weapons, and even single-kit can be a struggle (and usually ends up being nade kit, so lose 6 trait points right there).

It’s also really hard for 2 skills (main + toolbelt) to compete with 6 skills. If you are gonna take something defensive, the block on gear shield is almost as strong as anything a single other utility can give.

One way you could get around this with elixirs is to give it some more kind of synergy with elixir gun. Perhaps integrate E-gun traits with straight up elixir traits and allow them to cross-pollinate. Sure, cleansing formula 409 can’t work on every skill on the gun, but maybe allow it proc on the toolbelt and skill 5 (it didn’t last time I checked). In-fact, having super-elixir helps make up for not having backpack regenerator a little bit.

Edit: changed “30 trait points” to “6 trait points” to reflect the newer system.

Chaith.8256:

Please remove the damage component on Acidic Elixirs. It causes Elixir S to apply revealed instead of stealth.. it’s kind of a joke within a joke.

Perhaps just have the damage component fire off before the stealth.

Otherwise, I like a lot of the ideas for elixirs. Particularly about letting elixir traits mesh with elixir gun. Healing Mist, Acid Bomb, and Super Elixir are already categorized as Elixirs, though they aren’t affected by elixir traits (Elixir F should be included here too). Having those skills could open up some new areas for elixir focused builds to strut their stuff.

BlackBeard.2873:

Not really a comment on the balance-changes, but a big part of the reason why so many other builds don’t see play is how strong/reliant engies are on kits. It’s really hard for an engie to get by with just mainhand weapons, and even single-kit can be a struggle (and usually ends up being nade kit, so lose 6 trait points right there).

It’s also really hard for 2 skills (main + toolbelt) to compete with 6 skills. If you are gonna take something defensive, the block on gear shield is almost as strong as anything a single other utility can give.

One way you could get around this with elixirs is to give it some more kind of synergy with elixir gun. Perhaps integrate E-gun traits with straight up elixir traits and allow them to cross-pollinate. Sure, cleansing formula 409 can’t work on every skill on the gun, but maybe allow it proc on the toolbelt and skill 5 (it didn’t last time I checked). In-fact, having super-elixir helps make up for not having backpack regenerator a little bit.

Edit: changed “30 trait points” to “6 trait points” to reflect the newer system.

Elixir Gun synergy with Elixirs is an amazing idea that was scrapped what appears to be pre-launch.

It was probably broken then, but I think it’s an appropriate time to bring it back.

Edit: And yes, it’s hard to build enough synergy to compete with kits that start out amazing. One kit is doable though. But that’s the bare minimum.

The only reason I can think of them NOT letting Elixir traits affect E-gun at this point is the dangerous potential that has to buff the meta spec.

It wouldn’t be hard at all to go 30 up alchemy to take cleansing formula 409 and take E-gun to get 4x cleanse (you get 1 from super elixir already), still keep a stunbreak, and have the power of perma-weakness added to an already super-strong spec.

Perhaps move backpack regenerator to tools (it kind of fits, as Tools is the “kit” line anyway) or inventions to prevent this, or do you not think that would be OP?

BlackBeard.2873:

The only reason I can think of them NOT letting Elixir traits affect E-gun at this point is the dangerous potential that has to buff the meta spec.

It wouldn’t be hard at all to go 30 up alchemy to take cleansing formula 409 and take E-gun to get 4x cleanse (you get 1 from super elixir already), still keep a stunbreak, and have the power of perma-weakness added to an already super-strong spec.

Perhaps move backpack regenerator to tools or inventions to prevent this, or do you not think that would be OP?

Egun helps just about every 1v1 matchup for the Engineer, but it’s ability to keep the Engineer alive falls off the bigger the fights become.

But honestly, you bring up a good point, it would provide Cele rifle a more 1v1 focused option which the universe might not be able to handle right now.

It’s a shame, I tried to run a HGH Flamethrower build and while the damage was there the sustain simply isn’t. I Also run Medi Guard and it’s clear that it is simply superior to anything Elixirs can put out. I can also trait my Medi Guard to be highly resistant to condis (2/1/6/1/4). Even with 409 the cleanse on Elixirs isn’t that good.

It’s annoying because concept wise FT and Elixirs is a perfect match. While you can kick some noob butt once you encounter someone who knows what they’re doing you’re toast.

BurrTheKing.8571:

It’s a shame, I tried to run a HGH Flamethrower build and while the damage was there the sustain simply isn’t. Even with 409 the cleanse on Elixirs isn’t that good.

Very true about the 409 cleanse. When you’re loaded with conditions, casting a 1 second heal, and then throwing 3 more Elixirs at a 1/2 second cast, that whole process takes like, 2.5-3s to pull off, removing 3-4 conditions. Those elixirs that were tossed have about a 30 second cooldown, except the heal, which is 20. It’s honestly not much better than Healing Turret, untraited, haha.