Guild Wars 2

Ok I know this is going to get a lot of snarky responses but imo Engineers are the single most overpowered class in this game.

They are somewhat flying under the radar though because their imbalances aren’t as obvious as with other classes. The exception being sPvP which they have already turned into a mockery.

Unlike with other imbalances like Warrior Healing Signet + Adrenal Healing it’s hard to pin-point exactly what makes Engineers so OP.

In my book it’s the ability to passively deal damage while kiting combined with lots of knock-backs, CC and Blinds. It’s not an individual trait or skill that makes them OP, but rather their entire kitten nal and the lack of trade-offs they have to make.

Yes, Engineers don’t have amazing crit-videos where they show off their PvE DPS and no they aren’t very popular but mark my words, in a few months time this problem will become much more apparent.

Pro roamers and PvP heroes have already caught on to this for a while and most have rerolled Engineer at this point.

There is a reason I laugh at every single “pr0” engi I come across in game.

The worst are the “skilled” engies running perplex runes

Pro roamers? E-sport roamers? Pro duelers? Is there a leaderboard for all this so I know who to listen to?

You can’t identify what you feel makes engineer op but name a few different things. If you are being kited into bombs, knock backed (big ol bomb?) then you are to over aggressive and maybe don’t know how to fight engineers with bomb kit.

If you run bombs over aggressive enemies are a engis best friend.

Engineer isn’t flying under the radar Wolfineer posts his roaming videos on reddit all the time and is one of the most popular gw2 youtubers with that kind of content. Not everyone can post videos on reddit and not have them down voted to oblivion Wolfineer is one that reddit likes.

Many people know engineers are very weak to conditions and hard CC.

oZii.2864:

Many people know engineers are very weak to conditions and hard CC.

Of which any decent player can and will make up for in other aspects of their game.

T raw.4658:

There is a reason I laugh at every single “pr0” engi I come across in game.

The worst are the “skilled” engies running perplex runes

To be fair, most classes can run perplexity runes and become stupidly OP if their build revolves around the move set, but engis do have a high learning curve the have to pass as well to get used to all of those kits and skills. Personally I’ve run the perplexity engi right after taking a break from my ele, altho I still prefer at most times to use my ele, as (with most engis) they can’t take other condi builds well at all, unless they run Automated Response, but even then, if it winds up fighting a burst condi build and power build, the engi will fall quickly once its blocks are burned. Also as mentioned above, I prefer my ele again to roam over the engi b/c I have better stun breaks available. As an engi, more often than not, unless you’re traited for it, you can be stunlocked to oblivion.

I reached leaderboard rank 64 in TeamQ nearly a month ago on my engineer with a full turret power build. It’s my firm belief that engineer is actually the easiest class to master, although with a relatively high skill floor, and here’s why:

• Kits – With no cooldown, an engineer is able to use one skill in a kit, swap to another kit or their main weapon set, and continue fighting scott-free. Unlike elementalist, there’s no punishment for cycling your kits too fast, and you’re actually encouraged through traits to swap kits constantly. This leads to the spamming of skills without much need to put thought into what you’re using, other than having a ‘generalized’ grasp on combat.
• PBAoE – Engineer has far too much PBAoE for a conquest-based PvP format. Between bomb kit, grenade kit, toolkit, turret detonates and elixer throws, engineer by far has the absolute most offensive and defensive AoEs of any class, and can shotgun them at his feet on a whim, making kiting the only viable option for defeating them, and even at that point Grenade Kit has both the condition damage, direct damage, and soft CC to deal with even the peskiest of off-point burst mesmers.
• Condition Spam – ANet’s initial vision was for necromancer to be the condition class, however engineer has far surpassed the conditions output of the necro with the constant spamming of PBAoE fields and the ability to spam shuffle through their kits without punishment. This combined with the horribly imbalanced condition meta makes the engineer both tanky and have high damage output.
• Healing Output – Healing Turret blasted into its own water field after the initial pulse of healing has a higher HPS than warrior’s base healing signet/adrenal health/regeneration combo, and adds regeneration on top of that healing.
• Automated Response – This trait is entirely too powerful, and I’m ecstatic it’s getting nerfed. Running a Barbarian’s Amulet and jewel, I’m easily and comfortably able to maintain myself in the 1k-6.5k health range that is 25% of my 26k health, and more often than not a fight would be easier, even running only Healing Turret as my sole source of condition removal. Fights involving even two condition classes (say, a condi engie and condi necro) would last far longer than it would take for my team to reach far point and help me out, and eventually push the opposing side from their home point with my health still in tact.
• CC – This one’s a big point. Running my full turret build with rifle and APT, I had 6 sources of knockbacks/launches and one stun at my fingertips, and one of these CC skills always available even with the other 6 on cooldown when rotating correctly. This is a stretch since most engineer builds don’t have quite this much CC, but even when not investing into turrets they’ve got rifle, flamethrower, toolkit, APT (healing turret), and Supply Crate for 5 total CC skills while maintaining their survivability and gaining the benefits of kits and conditions, as well as mass AoEs as per mentioned earlier.

The engineer is, by far, the easiest class to master. The issue is that many people don’t play engineer because it’s hard to get into, but once you learn the rotations and what each skill does, you’ve essentially already mastered the class. Running a build like Teldo’s Bomb Build with heavy conditions only makes you look like a better player than you actually are due to the extremely forgiving nature of the class.

and there we have it

thx

Well in sPvP it’s game mode problem. Bomb and nades are very easy avoid if you have room to move.

I’ve complained for months about them but no one cares since the bandwagon is on Warriors.

They are really strong in PvP because of the size of the points. Foefire they lose a little bit of that advantage at mid, which is why those fights last forever.

Spam Engi has been viable since Day 1 because of that and will continue to be in Conquest mode.

It’s also super easy to play once you get used to swapping kits. Don’t let people like O Eggs or Reevzy fool you it’s not an intelligent playstyle it’s just APM benefitting from the way Anet designed the game.

Viking Jorun.5413:

It’s my firm belief that engineer is actually the easiest class to master, although with a relatively high skill floor

I somehow have to disagree with that.
I´ve always felt like engineer is a class you can easily get used to play. After all the amount of skills does not determine the difficulty of a class. It´s just seems hard until you know a few utility skills and each kit´s skills, then you´re mostly fine to go.

Additionally I think engineer is one of the classes with the highest skill ceiling. Making appropriate use of your combo fields in the right situations is the keyword here.
Also engineer has quite a few skills which are capable to be used offensively and defensively. Best example here is shield #4. You have to decide whether you want to use it to blast a field, knock someone back, reflect projectiles…
When I play most other classes it feels like there is no decision making involved in gameplay

You say engineer is by nature very forgiving. To be honest I can think of various classes and builds that are far more forgiving.
AND I think the reason why most people don´t play engineer is because they don´t see many big numbers

ON TOPIC
I kind of have to agree that the engineer flies beneath the radar and is in a dangerous spot to become fotm/op.
In my opinion the reason for that is that from the very beginning engineer´s overall damage was brought down over and over and at the same time the effect of healing power on Healing turret(complete remake), Backpack regenerator(50%buff on healing power coefficient), Super Elixir(100% buff healing power coefficient… though it was also kind of a nerf because … KR ;( ) was buffed.
It just seems they tried too hard at some point to make engineer mid-bunker happen.

Giving a class, which is MEANT BY DESIGN to excell at area control, high survivability in a conquest mode… equals blasphemy :P

I think engineer was in the beginning meant to be a high damage/control/low support roamer thingy… something like nade (power) HGH, turret SD and even 100nades comes to my mind there…

By the way, anyone else missing the days when HGH and 100nades where the most “OP” builds on engineer? ;D

Viking Jorun.5413:

I reached leaderboard rank 64 in TeamQ nearly a month ago on my engineer with a full turret power build. It’s my firm belief that engineer is actually the easiest class to master, although with a relatively high skill floor, and here’s why:

• Kits – With no cooldown, an engineer is able to use one skill in a kit, swap to another kit or their main weapon set, and continue fighting scott-free. Unlike elementalist, there’s no punishment for cycling your kits too fast, and you’re actually encouraged through traits to swap kits constantly. This leads to the spamming of skills without much need to put thought into what you’re using, other than having a ‘generalized’ grasp on combat.
• PBAoE – Engineer has far too much PBAoE for a conquest-based PvP format. Between bomb kit, grenade kit, toolkit, turret detonates and elixer throws, engineer by far has the absolute most offensive and defensive AoEs of any class, and can shotgun them at his feet on a whim, making kiting the only viable option for defeating them, and even at that point Grenade Kit has both the condition damage, direct damage, and soft CC to deal with even the peskiest of off-point burst mesmers.
• Condition Spam – ANet’s initial vision was for necromancer to be the condition class, however engineer has far surpassed the conditions output of the necro with the constant spamming of PBAoE fields and the ability to spam shuffle through their kits without punishment. This combined with the horribly imbalanced condition meta makes the engineer both tanky and have high damage output.
• Healing Output – Healing Turret blasted into its own water field after the initial pulse of healing has a higher HPS than warrior’s base healing signet/adrenal health/regeneration combo, and adds regeneration on top of that healing.
• Automated Response – This trait is entirely too powerful, and I’m ecstatic it’s getting nerfed. Running a Barbarian’s Amulet and jewel, I’m easily and comfortably able to maintain myself in the 1k-6.5k health range that is 25% of my 26k health, and more often than not a fight would be easier, even running only Healing Turret as my sole source of condition removal. Fights involving even two condition classes (say, a condi engie and condi necro) would last far longer than it would take for my team to reach far point and help me out, and eventually push the opposing side from their home point with my health still in tact.
• CC – This one’s a big point. Running my full turret build with rifle and APT, I had 6 sources of knockbacks/launches and one stun at my fingertips, and one of these CC skills always available even with the other 6 on cooldown when rotating correctly. This is a stretch since most engineer builds don’t have quite this much CC, but even when not investing into turrets they’ve got rifle, flamethrower, toolkit, APT (healing turret), and Supply Crate for 5 total CC skills while maintaining their survivability and gaining the benefits of kits and conditions, as well as mass AoEs as per mentioned earlier.

The engineer is, by far, the easiest class to master. The issue is that many people don’t play engineer because it’s hard to get into, but once you learn the rotations and what each skill does, you’ve essentially already mastered the class. Running a build like Teldo’s Bomb Build with heavy conditions only makes you look like a better player than you actually are due to the extremely forgiving nature of the class.

Great summary, this are exact problems i run into against engies.

I find ALL their weapon and kit cooldowns very short, promoting the spam. No meant personal, I would make their CDs longer, cooldown on kit swapping would break them probably, but increase the other utilitys and their tool-belt counterparts.

Also the instant-cast stuff should be reduced globaly…

bearbow rangers are the ones you need to watch out.

@OP:

You need to be more specific on which game mode.

WvW: Engis are pretty weak
PvE: Engis are pretty weak
PvP Conquest: OP
PvP DM: too soon to tell

T raw.4658:

oZii.2864:

Many people know engineers are very weak to conditions and hard CC.

Of which any decent player can and will make up for in other aspects of their game.

The problem still is there it doesn’t go away. If it was that easy to make up for in other areas nobody would complain about anything.

Their weakness still persists no matter how good they are at anything else. You can still abuse that weakness on the highest condition damage engi out there like you would on the lowest condition damage engi.

play necro.
what engi?

Viking Jorun.5413:

• PBAoE – Engineer has far too much PBAoE for a conquest-based PvP format. Between bomb kit, grenade kit, toolkit, turret detonates and elixer throws, engineer by far has the absolute most offensive and defensive AoEs of any class, and can shotgun them at his feet on a whim, making kiting the only viable option for defeating them, and even at that point Grenade Kit has both the condition damage, direct damage, and soft CC to deal with even the peskiest of off-point burst mesmers.
• Condition Spam – ANet’s initial vision was for necromancer to be the condition class, however engineer has far surpassed the conditions output of the necro with the constant spamming of PBAoE fields and the ability to spam shuffle through their kits without punishment. This combined with the horribly imbalanced condition meta makes the engineer both tanky and have high damage output.
• Healing Output – Healing Turret blasted into its own water field after the initial pulse of healing has a higher HPS than warrior’s base healing signet/adrenal health/regeneration combo, and adds regeneration on top of that healing.
• Automated Response – This trait is entirely too powerful, and I’m ecstatic it’s getting nerfed. Running a Barbarian’s Amulet and jewel, I’m easily and comfortably able to maintain myself in the 1k-6.5k health range that is 25% of my 26k health, and more often than not a fight would be easier, even running only Healing Turret as my sole source of condition removal. Fights involving even two condition classes (say, a condi engie and condi necro) would last far longer than it would take for my team to reach far point and help me out, and eventually push the opposing side from their home point with my health still in tact.
• CC – This one’s a big point. Running my full turret build with rifle and APT, I had 6 sources of knockbacks/launches and one stun at my fingertips, and one of these CC skills always available even with the other 6 on cooldown when rotating correctly. This is a stretch since most engineer builds don’t have quite this much CC, but even when not investing into turrets they’ve got rifle, flamethrower, toolkit, APT (healing turret), and Supply Crate for 5 total CC skills while maintaining their survivability and gaining the benefits of kits and conditions, as well as mass AoEs as per mentioned earlier.

The engineer is, by far, the easiest class to master. The issue is that many people don’t play engineer because it’s hard to get into, but once you learn the rotations and what each skill does, you’ve essentially already mastered the class. Running a build like Teldo’s Bomb Build with heavy conditions only makes you look like a better player than you actually are due to the extremely forgiving nature of the class.

I disagree with you on a few points but not all.

For a game mode that promotes staying on a point, I will say, a decap engie is by far the hardest thing to fight.

I disagree with it’s ease of mastery.
It is far easier to pick and master a war, guard, or mesmer, than it is to pick up and master an engie.
This is through my own experience and the experience i have with fighting people in spvp,tpvp, and wvw.
So take that as a grain if you want, but the majority of engineers i face on my theif or mesmer have been horribad, with the small select few who actually pose a serious threat and challenge.

The engineer cant have the best CC AND have the best CC removal
Though if you know of a build that exist like this please make it and link it.

An Engineer’s healing I have seen is also great when you learn how to properly blast inside of the turrents overcharge

The PBAoE is a mixed bag,
While I appreciate the PBAoE in zerg’s and spvp content.
It is entirely useless when an enemy has room to run and kite without worry of an objective.
So with the DM coming next week I am eager to see how well this helps in that game mode where the objective is to kill and not worry about points.

Honestly though I think the engineer is one of the classes that has a few good things for it, but not too much like the warr and not too little like an ele.
You are rewarded for smart play with the engineer, spamming your moves off cooldown honestly dont help you when you fight people that have a clue.

tbh ive been kinda expecting this thread. engi is just too hard for the average player so average players give it up. unlike warrior.

ellesee.8297:

play necro.
what engi?

rock paper scissors…

lol no other class matchup is so heavily onesided as necro vs engi.

Mesmer v guardian it might not be over as fast but you shouldn’t flat out lose to a guardian as a Mesmer ever.

oZyou’ve 64:

T raw.4658:

oZii.2864:

Many people know engineers are very weak to conditions and hard CC.

Of which any decent player can and will make up for in other aspects of their game.

The problem still is there it doesn’t go away. If it was that easy to make up for in other areas nobody would complain about anything.

Their weakness still persists no matter how good they are at anything else. You can still abuse that weakness on the highest condition damage engi out there like you would on the lowest condition damage engi.

Those weaknesses you’ve listed are the same for just about EVERY class. 1v1 and small skirmishes the engi is just like what’s been said.

Also the extremely high burst heal capabilities can help negate a condi burst

People have already stated Engi is OP who’ve put significant time into one

T raw.4658:

oZyou’ve 64:

T raw.4658:

oZii.2864:

Many people know engineers are very weak to conditions and hard CC.

Of which any decent player can and will make up for in other aspects of their game.

The problem still is there it doesn’t go away. If it was that easy to make up for in other areas nobody would complain about anything.

Their weakness still persists no matter how good they are at anything else. You can still abuse that weakness on the highest condition damage engi out there like you would on the lowest condition damage engi.

Those weaknesses you’ve listed are the same for just about EVERY class. 1v1 and small skirmishes the engi is just like what’s been said.

Also the extremely high burst heal capabilities can help negate a condi burst

People have already stated Engi is OP who’ve put significant time into one

Then that would be 1v1 right? Small scale you stun lock engi’s and necromancers. You put your necromancer to pressure the engineer. You send your warrior to pressure the engineer. Everyone that knows their class knows what should be their weakness and strength. Team play is small skirmish unless your talking about all solo roamers running solo builds who happen to grouped up together because they are solo roamers hanging out at ruins.

I don’t go HAM on the necro when I’m on my Ele somebody else goes HAM on the necro. When the Necro is preoccupied with a class that it is weak against like a warrior then I go HAM on the Necro. That is coordinated small skirmish not small skirmish pugging.

GW2 is designed around the team aspect you can’t have it all otherwise there wouldn’t be weaknesses for any class.

1v1’s everyone is OP I bet what you run has probably been called OP somewhere on the forums doesn’t mean it is correct. Just about every popular roaming build or class has been complained about on the forums at some point.

Mouby.7096:

I kinda love all this theory-crafting stuff. But cmon, noone of you has a even decent rating. Some of you aren’t even in the top 1000. I’m not saying this to actually be offensive, but did you ever play against decent teams/players? If you’re reaching the top 5 of europe (while playing one yourself / na doesn’t count, soloq neither) and you’re still saying engineer is OP i’m considering to actually think about your statements. Otherwise….

because spvp is such a great metric for class knowledge.

im rank 3 cuz the whole mode is in a practically beta state, the only available map type is lame to me, and anets given almost no competitive support. youre the offensive one sir.

Relentless.7023:

They are really strong in PvP because of the size of the points. Foefire they lose a little bit of that advantage at mid, which is why those fights last forever.

Don’t let people like O Eggs or Reevzy fool you it’s not an intelligent playstyle it’s just APM benefitting from the way Anet designed the game.

Shots fired. I agree with you that Engi becomes easy to play and the PvP map should be given a lot of credit. But if you actually watch OE’s playstyle you’ll know he’s using skills for a purpose, not just spamming like most other Engineers do.

Viking Jorun.5413

I never said I ran a zerker turret build. I said power, inferring I don’t run Condi. I actually mentioned later on that, when using a Barbarian’s Amulet to give me a 26k health pool, it was quite easy to stay in the bottom 25% of my health pool to benefit from the condition immunity of Automated Response. And yes, I’m on NA.

Sorry, but you were not playing a turret power build, you were playing a tanky AR engi. I love turrets, but any decent player knows they are awful. Do not even pretend like they are viable or that your unique ability made them so.

Kits – With no cooldown, an engineer is able to use one skill in a kit, swap to another kit or their main weapon set, and continue fighting scott-free. Unlike elementalist, there’s no punishment for cycling your kits too fast, and you’re actually encouraged through traits to swap kits constantly. This leads to the spamming of skills without much need to put thought into what you’re using, other than having a ‘generalized’ grasp on combat.

First off, what traits encourage kit swapping? Kit refinement? In its current form, it actually discourages wild kit swapping because you will waste the ability. Juggernaut also actively discourages kit swapping. In fact, our kits are balanced for their traited versions and you can not make multiple kits optimal in a single build. This means using your most traited kit more than others is a better strategy. You are just describing the nature of kits here and claiming it as a broken mechanic.

I agree that condition spam and automated response are currently over the top. Thankfully, one of those is being adjusted and the other is not unique to engineers. As for Healing Turret, I would gladly exchange some of its raw healing for synergistic conditional like Cleansing Ire. Additionally, your fact on HPS is assuming completely ideal situations (heal right off cd etc.) and even then warriors keep up.

CC – This one’s a big point. Running my full turret build with rifle and APT, I had 6 sources of knockbacks/launches and one stun at my fingertips, and one of these CC skills always available even with the other 6 on cooldown when rotating correctly. This is a stretch since most engineer builds don’t have quite this much CC, but even when not investing into turrets they’ve got rifle, flamethrower, toolkit, APT (healing turret), and Supply Crate for 5 total CC skills while maintaining their survivability and gaining the benefits of kits and conditions, as well as mass AoEs as per mentioned earlier.

Are you seriously counting each individual Accelerant-Packed Turret explosion as a CC source? What a joke. How many of your “top tier” opponents walked into 120 range of each of your turrets as they were about to die or you detonated them, sending what you defined your build by on long cooldown?

The original air of engineer expertise that you posted with is misleading to others. As I have said before…Anytime someone (experience and skill not even known) calls for a self-nerf they are automatically assumed to be so sagacious and honest. Sometimes this is true. In this case it is not. It only serves to draw those who have long been searching for justification that X class is overpowered and discredits both people in the process.

What i do not understand is how the OP is to be taken seriously by claiming a profession is over powered, then going on to state he has no specific reason for even saying so.

Is this the Elite Kill List, Master Plan, for the non-elite class/s?

for Guild Wars 2?

First it was Rangers pets/spirits, now it’s Necromancers Conditions and Engineers Kits,

so what’s next,

Guardians virtues?

First it was Rangers, now it’s Necromancers and Engineers.

so who’s next,

Guardians?

If the elite plan succeed,

Guild Wars 2 will be at their mercy.

Guild Wars 2 will die.

Dee Jay.2460:

Ok I know this is going to get a lot of snarky responses but imo Engineers are the single most overpowered class in this game.

They are somewhat flying under the radar though because their imbalances aren’t as obvious as with other classes. The exception being sPvP which they have already turned into a mockery.

Unlike with other imbalances like Warrior Healing Signet + Adrenal Healing it’s hard to pin-point exactly what makes Engineers so OP.

In my book it’s the ability to passively deal damage while kiting combined with lots of knock-backs, CC and Blinds. It’s not an individual trait or skill that makes them OP, but rather their entire kitten nal and the lack of trade-offs they have to make.

Yes, Engineers don’t have amazing crit-videos where they show off their PvE DPS and no they aren’t very popular but mark my words, in a few months time this problem will become much more apparent.

Pro roamers and PvP heroes have already caught on to this for a while and most have rerolled Engineer at this point.

This is my problem with the whole community. Stating that you cannot exactly pinpoint what makes them OP… is the same thing as saying. That the class feels to be synergetic with one another. People are so backwards in this game.

If a skill or group of skills work properly it is considered OP… stupid logic if you ask me. You want to talk OP, you can beat a thief 5 times and never kill him. That’s my definition of OP (stealth).

I would be glad when ANET stops listening to this kitten forum when it comes to balance.

Yeah, so apparently the engi is OP but it’s only the same handful of people that are complaining over and over on this forum. Two of which I know main a thief, which has a disadvantage against engis. But these same guys ignore the fact that engis are severely handicapped against necros. You know who you are. The only thing that is problematic is the AR decapper engi, which is why you almost never hear anyone complain that non decap engis are OP, except of course for those same handful of people.

And apparently OE and Teldo are scrubs being carried by the profession. I love this thread.

bethekey.8314:

Viking Jorun.5413

I never said I ran a zerker turret build. I said power, inferring I don’t run Condi. I actually mentioned later on that, when using a Barbarian’s Amulet to give me a 26k health pool, it was quite easy to stay in the bottom 25% of my health pool to benefit from the condition immunity of Automated Response. And yes, I’m on NA.

Sorry, but you were not playing a turret power build, you were playing a tanky AR engi. I love turrets, but any decent player knows they are awful. Do not even pretend like they are viable or that your unique ability made them so.

Kits – With no cooldown, an engineer is able to use one skill in a kit, swap to another kit or their main weapon set, and continue fighting scott-free. Unlike elementalist, there’s no punishment for cycling your kits too fast, and you’re actually encouraged through traits to swap kits constantly. This leads to the spamming of skills without much need to put thought into what you’re using, other than having a ‘generalized’ grasp on combat.

First off, what traits encourage kit swapping? Kit refinement? In its current form, it actually discourages wild kit swapping because you will waste the ability. Juggernaut also actively discourages kit swapping. In fact, our kits are balanced for their traited versions and you can not make multiple kits optimal in a single build. This means using your most traited kit more than others is a better strategy. You are just describing the nature of kits here and claiming it as a broken mechanic.

I agree that condition spam and automated response are currently over the top. Thankfully, one of those is being adjusted and the other is not unique to engineers. As for Healing Turret, I would gladly exchange some of its raw healing for synergistic conditional like Cleansing Ire. Additionally, your fact on HPS is assuming completely ideal situations (heal right off cd etc.) and even then warriors keep up.

CC – This one’s a big point. Running my full turret build with rifle and APT, I had 6 sources of knockbacks/launches and one stun at my fingertips, and one of these CC skills always available even with the other 6 on cooldown when rotating correctly. This is a stretch since most engineer builds don’t have quite this much CC, but even when not investing into turrets they’ve got rifle, flamethrower, toolkit, APT (healing turret), and Supply Crate for 5 total CC skills while maintaining their survivability and gaining the benefits of kits and conditions, as well as mass AoEs as per mentioned earlier.

Are you seriously counting each individual Accelerant-Packed Turret explosion as a CC source? What a joke. How many of your “top tier” opponents walked into 120 range of each of your turrets as they were about to die or you detonated them, sending what you defined your build by on long cooldown?

The original air of engineer expertise that you posted with is misleading to others. As I have said before…Anytime someone (experience and skill not even known) calls for a self-nerf they are automatically assumed to be so sagacious and honest. Sometimes this is true. In this case it is not. It only serves to draw those who have long been searching for justification that X class is overpowered and discredits both people in the process.

While you have a lot of good points you tend to discredit me for what I’ve said. I never said that every one of those was OP, however I do believe that all of my points combined is what makes an engineer over the top in conquest gameplay. If we want to get technical, we both know that decap engineer was never viable in top tier tPvP since it’s directly countered by proper rotation, something any top tier team knows how to do, not to mention the fact that any class + a thief will result in the engineer being dead in less than 15 seconds, no matter how tanky he thinks he is. Back on topic, I really think that the nerf to AR is a step in the right direction toward engineer being balanced in mid-tier PvP, and condition spam is a global issue, not exclusive to the engineer.

a handfull of engis play this to perfection and because of these people we should get nerfed again.automated response will get nerfed next patch. they blame us for using the spam condi builds but i ask you what else is out there??? dc is funny but almost every other class can do that dmg with with better survailability, decap is more of a joke, turrets are and will still be unplayable in the future.seriously warrior does more dmg with a longbow than ranger in this game and the problem in this community is the engineer.

lol your missing the point.

Engineers are very strong aoe condition application. But we have severe weaknesses to make up for it, along with lack of diversity ( every engi has to use nades for that role )

Which is 1 form of decent balance. Give a professions a set role with set weaknesses.

Engineers have huge build diversity. One of the things that makes them annoying is there are few tells on what build the engineer is carrying until you engage. You would have little clue as to whether I am a tanky/healing/power bomb build or a grenade spamming condi build.

Likewise, engineers have the very weaknesses to the very damage they do. We really hate condition damage (very few cleanses) and CC me and life is miserable (I have previous few stun breakers). We hate AE (especially siege) because of our limited mobility.

Now think about all the things we are really good at. I can clean YOUR conditions. I am fantastic at AE and at knocking down your siege and killing your casters. I really apply a lot of different conditions quickly (if you don’t transfer them back on me we are great), etc.

An engineer certainly has skills that can mitigate some of these weaknesses, (e.g. rocket boots) but they open up greater vulnerability to others.

Engineer is a well balanced class with the exception being that we really can decap small areas (which is ONLY a problem in PvP).

Burnfall.9573:

Is this the Elite Kill List, Master Plan, for the non-elite class/s?

for Guild Wars 2?

First it was Rangers pets/spirits, now it’s Necromancers Conditions and Engineers Kits,

so what’s next,

Guardians virtues?

First it was Rangers, now it’s Necromancers and Engineers.

so who’s next,

Guardians?

If the elite plan succeed,

Guild Wars 2 will be at their mercy.

Guild Wars 2 will die.

You seem to think every class is OP. Is there anything that you consider balanced?

It depends on, which build, which mode and which people.
There are so many classes/builds that can actually kill an engineer.
If you can’t, your build(?!) sucks kitten.

KraunK.2319:

It depends on, which build, which mode and which people.
There are so many classes/builds that can actually kill an engineer.
If you can’t, your build(?!) sucks kitten.

What if your build can kill everything but an Engi? I don’t quite think that sucks kitten if you can beat the HS warriors but not a condi spam engi running perplexity, though if they don’t have perplexity I still win.

Bombsaway.7198:

Engineers have huge build diversity. One of the things that makes them annoying is there are few tells on what build the engineer is carrying until you engage. You would have little clue as to whether I am a tanky/healing/power bomb build or a grenade spamming condi build.

This. It is surprising how infrequently it is brought up, but the scariest thing about the Engi is the unknown. Engineers are the boogeyman of PVP in the sense that, until you see what they can do, it is possible for them to do anything.

I wouldn’t call engineers OP, though. Engineers, for their wide toolbox of utilities, have some pretty glaring weaknesses. Our strongest trait is automated response, and since that is being nerfed into the ground, expect to see engis being thwarted by condi all the time. Engis also have had most of their effective stun breakers removed, meaning that heavy CC counters them.

Outside of sPVP, engineers are just mediocre. They can be used alright in WvW, but without area restraints it is much harder to land bombs or nades. Zergs are dangerous due to Engi’s weakness to retaliation, and without good condi cleanse and stun breakers, engineers frequently get caught and trained over.

In PVE, Engis are good at debuffing and heals, and they are great at immobilizing, but nonetheless suffer from a lack of potency. They have fire fields and can blast in them quite well, but Eles do that better. They have smoke fields for stealth, but thieves do that better. They have projectile reflection and blocking, but mesmers and guards do it better. They have good controls, but thieves strip defiant better. They have some rez skills, but other classes are faster on the draw.

`never chase an engi in wvw and he will be harmless

Engineers are good only in PvP and only for a simple reason: they are the control-oriented class of the game. And PvP as now needs only that, you don’t even need to kill the enemies to win.
That will change with the introduction of deathmatch PvP, anyway.

And don’t let me started on the best-case and kit-oriented balancing – practices that are completely incoherent compared to how the other classes are balanced.

Manuhell.2759:

Engineers are good only in PvP and only for a simple reason: they are the control-oriented class of the game. And PvP as now needs only that, you don’t even need to kill the enemies to win.
That will change with the introduction of deathmatch PvP, anyway.

And don’t let me started on the best-case and kit-oriented balancing – practices that are completely incoherent compared to how the other classes are balanced.

The best builds have little to no control. Your move?

Chaith.8256:

The best builds have little to no control. Your move?

Asking for a link for those builds before replying further – and be aware that by control-oriented i’m not talking only about proper control skills; immbolizes and suchs are on the table, too.
Still, from a logical standpoint, my point is still true: if the mode doesn’t require you anything else than making an opponent stay out of a point, whoever does it better by design has an advantage.

Manuhell.2759:

Chaith.8256:

The best builds have little to no control. Your move?

Asking for a link for those builds before replying further – and be aware that by control-oriented i’m not talking only about proper control skills; immbolizes and suchs are on the table, too.
Still, from a logical standpoint, my point is still true: if the mode doesn’t require you anything else than making an opponent stay out of a point, whoever does it better by design has an advantage.

Heh, I was referring to the most reliable builds in tPvP right now:

P/S Bomb/Nade

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIq6ZHxSfF17IyoCdmoH5nlpffeIXsFEC-ToAAzCpI0SplTLjWStsaNWYKC

P/P Nade/Toolkit

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQJAqalUUpEr1XxkLseRiMqQnBqQeJSh+ZZfe8WsFEC-TsAAzCuI0SplTLjWStsaNE5swcBA

Only thing I have to add is that you should edit the title and specify this is a PvP problem. Engis are still frowned upon in PvE due to the zerker Warrior “metagame” where only raw dps matters.

Dee Jay.2460:

Unlike with other imbalances like Warrior Healing Signet + Adrenal Healing it’s hard to pin-point exactly what makes Engineers so OP.

Got to love the ole’, “I have no evidence so clearly I have not broke down the specifics or actually tested to even develop specifics so my perception is law” argument.

Dee Jay.2460:

In my book it’s the ability to passively deal damage while kiting combined with lots of knock-backs, CC and Blinds. It’s not an individual trait or skill that makes them OP, but rather their entire kitten nal and the lack of trade-offs they have to make.

And which build would that be? Got a video of you playing it and showing how how said build is particularly too strong?

Dee Jay.2460:

Yes, Engineers don’t have amazing crit-videos where they show off their PvE DPS and no they aren’t very popular but mark my words, in a few months time this problem will become much more apparent.

They used to. good old 100 nades, which took a solid set up effort. Thanks to poorly rationalized complaints based on perception such as this one, it was quickly nerfed.

Chaith.8256:

Heh, I was referring to the most reliable builds in tPvP right now:

P/S Bomb/Nade

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIq6ZHxSfF17IyoCdmoH5nlpffeIXsFEC-ToAAzCpI0SplTLjWStsaNWYKC

P/P Nade/Toolkit

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQJAqalUUpEr1XxkLseRiMqQnBqQeJSh+ZZfe8WsFEC-TsAAzCuI0SplTLjWStsaNE5swcBA

Bombs and grenades, for their AoE nature, could be seen as area control (akin to turrets – and turrets are described as area control in the class description). That’s mainly due of the small radius of many points, though. And as it was already mentioned before, that’s something basically exclusive to pvp only, due of its particular mechanics.
But sure, i was probably oversimplifying the matter.

style.6173:

Burnfall.9573:

Is this the Elite Kill List, Master Plan, for the non-elite class/s?

for Guild Wars 2?

First it was Rangers pets/spirits, now it’s Necromancers Conditions and Engineers Kits,

so what’s next,

Guardians virtues?

First it was Rangers, now it’s Necromancers and Engineers.

so who’s next,

Guardians?

If the elite plan succeed,

Guild Wars 2 will be at their mercy.

Guild Wars 2 will die.

You seem to think every class is OP. Is there anything that you consider balanced?

I can tell you which class is near balanced: guardians. Necromancers and engineers missed the list because they are being targeted by the elite.

Elites: Warriors, Elementalists and Thieve are the OP classes: very Unbalanced.

What’s new?

After 17 months,

absolutely nothing.

Burnfall.9573:

style.6173:

Burnfall.9573:

Is this the Elite Kill List, Master Plan, for the non-elite class/s?

for Guild Wars 2?

First it was Rangers pets/spirits, now it’s Necromancers Conditions and Engineers Kits,

so what’s next,

Guardians virtues?

First it was Rangers, now it’s Necromancers and Engineers.

so who’s next,

Guardians?

If the elite plan succeed,

Guild Wars 2 will be at their mercy.

Guild Wars 2 will die.

You seem to think every class is OP. Is there anything that you consider balanced?

I can tell you which class is near balanced: guardians. Necromancers and engineers missed the list because they are being targeted by the elite.

Elites: Warriors, Elementalists and Thieve are the OP classes: very Unbalanced.

What’s new?

After 17 months,

absolutely nothing.

Actually….

I believe the OPs goal is:

Relentless.7023:

They are really strong in PvP because of the size of the points. Foefire they lose a little bit of that advantage at mid, which is why those fights last forever.

Spam Engi has been viable since Day 1 because of that and will continue to be in Conquest mode.

It’s also super easy to play once you get used to swapping kits. Don’t let people like O Eggs or Reevzy fool you it’s not an intelligent playstyle it’s just APM benefitting from the way Anet designed the game.

yeah don’t let me fool you

Related:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCI9Y4VGCVw

And to light the mood a little bit.