Guild Wars 2

something needs to be done with them
they need a nerf in spvp is you face group with 5 engis all running turrents and they can get away with this than something is wrong eather dmg of turrents or life of turrents needs to be toned down. its getting stupid if every team runs 2 to 3 turrent engis nowadays beacose they are just 2 OP

they count as objects so they’re immune to crits and conditions.

let them be crit and effected by conditions, fixed!

Cleave turrets and CC Engineer and use proper positioning.

Condition flooding the Engineer can be incredibly effective aswell.

Liewec.2896:

they count as objects so they’re immune to crits and conditions.

let them be crit and effected by conditions, fixed!

Only if Turrets can crit.

First off: It’s ‘turrets.’ Nobody complaining about them seems to ever be able to spell that properly. Learn the proper spelling, or every complaint will be tainted with ‘and they can’t even spell what they’re complaining about. Do they really know what they’re talking about?’

Moving on: The game mode itself is more to blame than anything else, in my opinion; if there weren’t such an emphasis on holding a static point, then Turrets, which are designed around holding a static point, oddly enough, would likely be as underwhelming in sPvP as they are everywhere else in the game, rather than wrecking hotjoin. If they get nerfed game-wide as a result of their actually working for what they’re designed for, they might as well delete the whole skill set, because nobody would be able to use them.

How are you approaching the battle? Solo? With party members? Focusing on the Turrets or the Engineer first?
If you actually bother to coordinate with your party, then you’ll have a much better chance of success. Work with a party member (or two) to destroy the turrets, then focus on the Engineer. With Turrets out, a Turret Engineer is about 1.3 characters, but with them gone, they’re down to .75 – especially considering the heavy trait investments.

They are already nerfing turrets CC ability. Engineers have the least condition cleanse in the game. Turrets are very easily destroyed. I would think the upcoming nerf to them is enough for now, no need to ask for more.

I think a rework of turrets so that their actives are meaningful and timed well-used activation of their active skills are necessary for success would be better than just nerfing them. Also conditions should affect them, even if it isn’t 100%.

In fact I think all true AI (read: not banners/spirits) need to have their damage and utility pushed heavily onto their actives. An AI build should have to interact with their summoned peons to have success, this means having to use their actives well, and doing things like using CC to set up the minion actives, or using the minion actives to set up for your own damage. Ex: shatter mesmers.

Bhawb.7408:

I think a rework of turrets so that their actives are meaningful and timed well-used activation of their active skills are necessary for success would be better than just nerfing them. Also conditions should affect them, even if it isn’t 100%.

In fact I think all true AI (read: not banners/spirits) need to have their damage and utility pushed heavily onto their actives. An AI build should have to interact with their summoned peons to have success, this means having to use their actives well, and doing things like using CC to set up the minion actives, or using the minion actives to set up for your own damage. Ex: shatter mesmers.

What way would you suggest they be reworked? That is a bit too broad a term to just suggest it and leave it at that.

Personally, I feel if you are going to make a suggest of that nature, you should offer an idea how each one should work.

One thing I see these forums are horrible about, is posters demand something gets changed, and make the same demand repeatedly. Anet makes a change. Forums blows up complaining and insulting them for their changes. When all they did was exactly what the posters asked for.

dancingmonkey.4902:

What way would you suggest they be reworked? That is a bit too broad a term to just suggest it and leave it at that.

Personally, I feel if you are going to make a suggest of that nature, you should offer an idea how each one should work.

One thing I see these forums are horrible about, is posters demand something gets changed, and make the same demand repeatedly. Anet makes a change. Forums blows up complaining and insulting them for their changes. When all they did was exactly what the posters asked for.

I don’t make specifics because I’m not on the balance team, nor am I a turret player. Just like I wouldn’t make specific suggestions on how to fix spirits, despite the fact that spirits are awfully designed and need changes. I had a very lengthy post on how to do it for minions, going through that much effort for turrets doesn’t seem worth it to me, especially when I’m not nearly as knowledgeable about the build.

But in short: reduce the passive AA strength, Flame Turret for example does comparable DPS to Flesh Golem, while being a utility instead of an elite, and then make the active strong and so you have to actually think about when to use it, Rifle Turret for example is just a “press on CD” active, there is absolutely no reason to time it except not activating it right as someone pops a defensive CD.

Bhawb.7408:

But in short: reduce the passive AA strength, Flame Turret for example does comparable DPS to Flesh Golem, while being a utility instead of an elite, and then make the active strong and so you have to actually think about when to use it, Rifle Turret for example is just a “press on CD” active, there is absolutely no reason to time it except not activating it right as someone pops a defensive CD.

So you prefer it does smoke screen for its times attack and damage for the over charge? Due to the fact that the over charge does zero damage and Flesh golems “charge” does channel damage + final strike and its basic attack has more damage. Your going to have to justify how you are suggesting they do comparable damage, because I just don’t see it.

Nor does it have native crowd control.

By the way can we make turrets mobile like necro minions since you feel they are so comparable?

And your point? Charge isn’t a DPS increase unless the target is in a corner, otherwise the mechanics rarely line up to be an increase because he runs the full distance and has to come back, losing attack time. He can also be kited around a point, unlike flame turret which just swivels and shoots.

The reality remains that Turrets do too much with their passives and their actives are in general far too mindless. Until that is changed, they will always have to be underpowered to be healthy in sPvP. It has nothing to do with removing their identity, them being immobile is good, having a turret that inflicts the second highest damaging condition in the game with 100% uptime and little counterplay or need for active input isn’t.

To answer your question, my point was that I feel your mistaken in suggesting that flame turret does as much DPS as flesh golem.

Not to mention I fail to see the logic in claiming an immobilized turret has no counter play. Personally, I kind of felt that walking away from the turret was fairly solid counter play. Destroying it works reasonably well also.

I have no problem with the majority of the damage being through the over charge, but that causes a lose of some of the utility design. You have demanded they change them, but offer no actual solution as how to go about it. With out a reasonable alternative to discuss, it is a little difficult to get behind the idea. Similarly to how you were so adamant that they reschedule the necromancer skill bar to allow discussion. It seems somewhat one sided that you demand time for discussion on your main, but demand changes to professions that are not your main, and refuse to offer discussion.

You admitted yourself that you do not use some of the skills that you are claiming are so “awful”. As well as definitively claiming they are awful and need changes. I personally feel they could use some changes, but I do not agree with your thoughts on the matter.

Turret eng only does ok at low levels of play. At higher levels they just die to aoe, the eng gets cond bombed, etc.

It’s akin to a minion necro… that has minions that never move…

I want to know why turrets do not disappear when the ENG is on the other side of the map, even Mesmer portal has a range limit?

StugLyfe.2134:

I want to know why turrets do not disappear when the ENG is on the other side of the map, even Mesmer portal has a range limit?

Yet mesmer phantasms do not.

Although I personally see no problem with turrets destructing once the one that placed them breaks the 2000 range mark.

Short answer: l2p.
Long answer:
1) They have 0 mobility. Since a team has 5 people and there are only 3 nodes it means they must be outnumbered somewhere! Use that to your advantage. They can’t move away from their turrents! What would they do without them? Rifle auto? lol.
2) In team fights torrents will die to random cleave/aoe pretty fast.
3) I admit the knockback trait on turrit destruction is annoying as hell but that’s it really. Torrets engi is a troll build. It’s not good. It’s bad. Annoying for sure but bad. Like decap is!

Aberrant.6749:

Turret eng only does ok at low levels of play. At higher levels they just die to aoe, the eng gets cond bombed, etc.

It’s akin to a minion necro… that has minions that never move…

At tPvP may be, but even at high soloQ works pretty well

I’d understand the frustration at dealing with turrets at melee range but the are stationary objects which are usually traited for, carry a cooldown and can be dealt with range and AoE.

robertul.3679:

Short answer: l2p.
Long answer:
… turrents!
… torrents
… turrit
… Torrets engi is a troll build.

:)

Zephaust Zenith.8376:

I’d understand the frustration at dealing with turrets at melee range but the are stationary objects which are usually traited for, carry a cooldown and can be dealt with range and AoE.

robertul.3679:

Short answer: l2p.
Long answer:
… turrents!
… torrents
… turrit
… Torrets engi is a troll build.

:)

…that…that has to be intentional. It has to. I’m just glad he’s not complaining about them being too good.