Guild Wars 2

Dear ANet
If you want to nerf Direct Damage, please nerf Condition damage too. Idk what you are thinking but indirect buff it’s not what condition damage need as it is already strong in PvP (and I mean WvW PvP). It will not do anything in zergs but it never did in the first place, but since WvW it’s not all about Zergs, you will make small group fights and solo fights nothing but condi spam. Fights will take for ever and Dire will be the stat of choice since nothing else of condition damage really matters.

People have been doing Ascended gear for their builds and now you will mae everything go to waste because you don’t like the zerker meta? Zerker Meta was here because of the PvE way of 1 shot kill from bosses, not because we wanted it. And if you want to change PvE, fine but then leave WvW away from it. MAKE UP YOUR MIND BUT DON’T SCREW THE GAME MORE THAN IT IS!! Nerfing Direct Damage is not the answer for this

Also another note. If you want to balance the game, make more balance patches, 2 a year is not enough

There is no point, they never back down from a decision, no matter how much they know they screwed it. Unfortunately this change is to stay, all you will ever hear from them from now on is “we are closely watching it”, “we want the meta to settle”, “it might take a while for people to get used to it”. W/e, they are the ones shooting themselves in the foot.

How could the devs be so naive? The changes aren’t here and I can already predict how the meta will change.
PvE will stay Zerker meta, no trait, sigil or rune changes will change this because what caused the Zerker meta was created by… guess what the PvE ANet way of things, that is you will get 1 shoot kill by this boss no matter what build you bring to him. With this who would go defencive? Really who would go full tank to get 1 shoot kill anyway, no one is this dumb. But instead of changing the PvE, lets nerf direct damage in all areas (except sPvP that is totally separated), that will do it. -.- NO!!!! IT WILL NOT
WvW in zergs thing will either stay the same, or ppl will go even more Zerker since the allready low damage in most WvW build will be even lower, zerg fight will take forever to end. Aside from zergs the already strong condition builds will gain even more power since this will nerf direct damage, Dire stats will be king (really Idk how you could even implement this stat, anyone can see that it would be OP allowing for ppl to go that much defencive and maintaing the damage, this Apothecary and Settlers, but Dire is the worst since it’s Toughness and Vitality) and roaming groups, aside of Guards and Ele will problably be full of condi builds. Necro and Mesmer will be kings of Roaming, followed be cheese P/D Thief, Shortbow Rangers, Warriors and on and on. And most ascended stuff that ppl got for Crit build will go to waste.

Away to go ANet. Do any of you play any MMO? Because GW2 it’s clear that you don’t

Not sure what game you guys play, but in WvW, the only thing that matters is the size of your hammer train. So long as your hammer train has 2 guardians for every 3 warriors, condis will be meaningless.

And yes, burst damage is out of control as well.

It’s the first step in ANet’s master plan to nerf all classes down to that of Rangers, per the CDI thread. Congrats…

WvW:

Zergs: Melee Zerk Hammer trains.
Roaming: Conditions
1 Vs 1: Conditions
Small Group: Conditions

It was this before the changes, it will continue to be this. Until the Condition spamming of Necro, Thief, Ranger, Mesmer and Engineer is taken under control nothing will change. Engineer and Necromander need to have Burning Removed. Engineer needs to have its Confusion reduced a lot. Condition builds on Thief need to be looked at as well. Spending SO much in time and then spamming conditions when they get out until they go back in…

If they want Condition builds to be king – Ele and Guardian need to be hugely buffed in terms of condition builds. Ele can do it, just. Requires constant pressure and none of this spamming conditions rubbish. They sacrifice A LOT damage is terrible, defense is rather poor as well. Unlike all other Condition builds – Insane defense, insane condition access, High health.

Fortus.6175:

There is no point, they never back down from a decision, no matter how much they know they screwed it.

Can’t tell you how many times I thought about this the pets since the Ranger CDI fail.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

WvW:
It was this before the changes, it will continue to be this. Until the Condition spamming of Necro, Thief, Ranger, Mesmer and Engineer is taken under control nothing will change. Engineer and Necromander need to have Burning Removed. Engineer needs to have its Confusion reduced a lot. Condition builds on Thief need to be looked at as well. Spending SO much in time and then spamming conditions when they get out until they go back in…

Hammer trains run Soldiers gear usually

and of all the classes you want to remove burning from, you want to take it away from the one that actually has a flamethrower?

Berengar.6951:

Hammer trains run Soldiers gear usually

and of all the classes you want to remove burning from, you want to take it away from the one that actually has a flamethrower?

yeah, so they would have to make a choice about using it. I rarely see any condition Engineer using it – why? because of all the other conditions on the other kits and with the Burning on Crit makes up for it.

So, remove the Burning trait. Leave the Flamethrower and make them actually have to give up something to get access to the strongest (damage wise) condition.

My reason for removing it from Necromancer and Engineer is that they don’t need it. I guess you could say the same about Staff Mesmer, though they do have a rather big amount of access to conditions as well.

Even if you removed Incendiary Powder, Engie probably has the best access to burning besides Eles.

Fire Bomb, Rocket Boots toolbelt, Multiple Flamethrower skills, Incendiary Ammo(Flamethrower toolbelt), Flame Turret, Flame Turret Toolbelt, Blowtorch (offhand pistol #4). I’m sure I missed some

Berengar.6951:

Even if you removed Incendiary Powder, Engie probably has the best access to burning besides Eles.

Fire Bomb, Rocket Boots toolbelt, Multiple Flamethrower skills, Incendiary Ammo(Flamethrower toolbelt), Flame Turret, Flame Turret Toolbelt, Blowtorch (offhand pistol #4). I’m sure I missed some

That is true. How ever, most condition Engineers don’t take Flamethrower which would remove Incendiary Ammo. Nor do they take Pistol offhand. Flame Turret isn’t really taken either. They need Bomb Kit, Grenade Kit and normally take Tool Kit.

You can swap to flamethrower before a fight to apply incendiary ammo. Off hand pistol is also decently popular, and would become more popular if they removed incendiary powder.

I have not seen a single Condition based Engineer using Pistol/Pistol. Sure you can do that. Doesn’t quite help when you get attacked before you can do it.

I agree on the nerf to critical damage but i think they should increase NON critical physical damage as a tradeoff. While critical scaling was ridiculus some specialisation that cannot do critical naturaly could use a huge help to their dps (class like ranger, necromancer, hammer warriors, elementalist and enginer could use this kind of help)

Increasing white damage would promote the value of physical build in pvp increase the effectiveness of about any build that doesnt rely on condition or critical strike and keep critical hit specialist still a good damage specialisation. They should not want to nerf the physical build just make the critical path a less obvious one to physical units.

what im proposing here is an increase in value to power versus critical damage. The current issue is that one cannot actualy do a ’’POWER’’ build without also running critical damage. those two stat need to be separated so that POWER BUILD doesnt necesarely means runnin power – precision – critical damage.

PvE is dominated by direct-damage, WvW is dominated by direct-damage, spvp is unchanged.

I agree that the condition spam in this game is already horrible and is only going to get worse.

Condition spam is near unavoidable, poorly telegraphed and can only be countered by overpowered condition removal.

Every competitive player already runs -40% Condition food because Conditions are so massively overpowered and impossible to avoid.

In turn, every Condition spamer uses +40% Duration because this food alone is massively over budget. If rare Veggie Pizza got the same treatment as Critical Damage did it would barely add 7% Condition Duration.

And don’t even get me started on Dire gear.

Condition spam is just emphasizing the worst aspects of GW2 game-play and it’s only going to get more dominant.

It’s not like it’s already hard enough to burst down a terrormancer or dire p/s engi, or try to stay on top of a p/d thief running plex, on my guard. Guess it’s time to re-roll!

mPascoal.4258:

Dear ANet
If you want to nerf Direct Damage, please nerf Condition damage too. Idk what you are thinking but indirect buff it’s not what condition damage need as it is already strong in PvP (and I mean WvW PvP). It will not do anything in zergs but it never did in the first place, but since WvW it’s not all about Zergs, you will make small group fights and solo fights nothing but condi spam. Fights will take for ever and Dire will be the stat of choice since nothing else of condition damage really matters.

People have been doing Ascended gear for their builds and now you will mae everything go to waste because you don’t like the zerker meta? Zerker Meta was here because of the PvE way of 1 shot kill from bosses, not because we wanted it. And if you want to change PvE, fine but then leave WvW away from it. MAKE UP YOUR MIND BUT DON’T SCREW THE GAME MORE THAN IT IS!! Nerfing Direct Damage is not the answer for this

Also another note. If you want to balance the game, make more balance patches, 2 a year is not enough

crtical dammage is a seprate brucn of direct damage, power based damage is direct damage.

And then after nerfing direct damage, anet will nerf conditions, leaving only bunkers sitting out there hitting eachother with wet noodles and the only combat that will get anywhere will be zerging.

Popular roaming builds are:

Thief

D/P Thief – direct
P/d Thief – condi
S/D Thief – Direct
S/P Thief – Direct

Mesmer

PU Condi – Condi
PU Power – Direct
Phantasm – Direct
Phantasm – Condi
Hybrid – condi/direct

Necro

Terror – condi
MM – direct
Powermancer – direct

Guardian
Meds – direct
healway – direct
AH shouts – direct
AH dps – direct

Engi

Bombs – condi
Nades – Condi
Nades – Direct
Nades – Hybrid
Rifle – direct

Warrior

S/S + LB – Condi
S/Shield + LB – direct
Hammer + GS – direct
Mace/Shield + GS – direct
Axe/Shield + GS – direct

Elementalist

D/D classic – Direct
S/D fresh air – Direct
S/f fresh air – Direct

Don’t know rangers well but I see

Zerk shortbow
and the condi build with traps or axe.

Just at first sight there are more power builds roaming then condi builds. This isn’t the most solid of evidence but these are most of the popular roaming builds.

21 direct
8 condi builds you can lump hybrid in there if you like but there is still more direct.

You can of course come up with crazy condi builds that most never heard of or change a trait from the core build to make it more condi builds but your reaching then.

These are all builds that if a new player came into any of those forums asking for a wvw roaming build one of the above variations is what they would get directed to.

What is getting lost here is if you come across 2 pu condi mesmers but still that is the same build, terrormancers are still the same build, 4 P/D thieves are still P/D thieves.

Most classes have 1-2 popular roaming condi builds and usually have double that in direct damage roaming builds.

Why can’t you use condi when you do your hipster roaming thing and power when you zerg?

Junkpile.7439:

Why can’t you use condi when you do your hipster roaming thing and power when you zerg?

Gear issues. Even after they do the free retraiting, that’s a lot of gear to lug around on the battlefield when you need space for siege blueprints and loot.

And it’s very common for roamers to join or split from a zerg.

kyubi.3620:

I agree on the nerf to critical damage but i think they should increase NON critical physical damage as a tradeoff. While critical scaling was ridiculus some specialisation that cannot do critical naturaly could use a huge help to their dps (class like ranger, necromancer, hammer warriors, elementalist and enginer could use this kind of help)

Increasing white damage would promote the value of physical build in pvp increase the effectiveness of about any build that doesnt rely on condition or critical strike and keep critical hit specialist still a good damage specialisation. They should not want to nerf the physical build just make the critical path a less obvious one to physical units.

what im proposing here is an increase in value to power versus critical damage. The current issue is that one cannot actualy do a ’’POWER’’ build without also running critical damage. those two stat need to be separated so that POWER BUILD doesnt necesarely means runnin power – precision – critical damage.

Hammer warriors and the like do not need a dps increase. Power builds can stack up on defensive stats, they should NOT be seeing an increase in damage whilst they do not have to sacrifice defense. If you want a power set with more damage, then lose the toughness and vit.

The idea of nerfing glass cannon zerk dps and then buffing lolPVT dps is truly terrible.

oZii.2864:

Popular roaming builds are:
Just at first sight there are more power builds roaming then condi builds. This isn’t the most solid of evidence but these are most of the popular roaming builds.

21 direct
8 condi builds you can lump hybrid in there if you like but there is still more direct.

Now rather than counting possible builds, let’s look at the most frequent builds you come across roaming (a good 50-70% depending on the server you are fighting):

1. Condi Engie (condition)
2. D/P thieves (direct – this isn’t b/c they are strong, its b/c many noobs are cowards)
3. PU Mesmer (condition AND cowards)
4. Condi Warrior

All of these specs are low risk:high reward specs, most of which rely on abusing the mechanic of condi-bursting then playing incredibly defensively to supplement their passive (stat-wise) defense. Power classes (that have to continue attacking to keep up pressure) already have a hard time keeping up, and it will get worse.

Yes, top-end critical damage does need a reduction (this is a good thing), but condi specs such as this (that are high reward:low risk) need to have either their capability to pressure reduced (so that they need to keep attacking to apply pressure) or their inherent survivability reduced.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

WvW:

Zergs: Melee Zerk Hammer trains.
Roaming: Conditions
1 Vs 1: Conditions
Small Group: Conditions

It was this before the changes, it will continue to be this. Until the Condition spamming of Necro, Thief, Ranger, Mesmer and Engineer is taken under control nothing will change. Engineer and Necromander need to have Burning Removed. Engineer needs to have its Confusion reduced a lot. Condition builds on Thief need to be looked at as well. Spending SO much in time and then spamming conditions when they get out until they go back in…

If they want Condition builds to be king – Ele and Guardian need to be hugely buffed in terms of condition builds. Ele can do it, just. Requires constant pressure and none of this spamming conditions rubbish. They sacrifice A LOT damage is terrible, defense is rather poor as well. Unlike all other Condition builds – Insane defense, insane condition access, High health.

What. Nonono. Melee trains, especially hammer warriors, are far from zerker. 90% of the meleetrain consists out of PVT. Some guilds run a few more DPS warriors than the other but overall I think 90% wont be far from reality.

BlackBeard.2873:

Now rather than counting possible builds, let’s look at the most frequent builds you come across roaming (a good 50-70% depending on the server you are fighting):

the difference between condi and power is much smaller when you count only the good roaming players

BlackBeard.2873:

1. Condi Engie (condition)
2. D/P thieves (direct – this isn’t b/c they are strong, its b/c many noobs are cowards)
3. PU Mesmer (condition AND cowards)
4. Condi Warrior

Curious – where’s a condi Necro on that list?

D’you think it’s less effective than those listed, or it’s just not as popular of a build?

Furienify.5738:

BlackBeard.2873:

1. Condi Engie (condition)
2. D/P thieves (direct – this isn’t b/c they are strong, its b/c many noobs are cowards)
3. PU Mesmer (condition AND cowards)
4. Condi Warrior

Curious – where’s a condi Necro on that list?

D’you think it’s less effective than those listed, or it’s just not as popular of a build?

Absolutely.

I rarely run into roaming condition necro’s, or necro’s in general even. They are to slow and to immobile.
It might be a strong build, but if you constantly get picked up by a larger roaming group that you cannot escape, and then spend the longest time to get back to where you died, it doesnt mean much.

Necro’s stick way more to zergs, others cover their mobility by giving swiftness. And they can drop some big AoE’s. But they arent as effective in zergs because conditions are less effective in the face of waves upon waves of aoe condition removal.

Roaming is currently dominated by direct-damage builds, and has been since launch.

BlackBeard.2873:

Yes, top-end critical damage does need a reduction (this is a good thing), but condi specs such as this (that are high reward:low risk) need to have either their capability to pressure reduced (so that they need to keep attacking to apply pressure) or their inherent survivability reduced.

Or, people need to learn how to combat them. A burst is a burst, regardless of if it kills you instantly or 20 seconds down the road. Recognize and respond to it in the same way. Negate the burst and you force your opponent to play defensively until their cooldowns come up. Condition burst is actually preferable just because cleansing after the fact is an option as well.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Berengar.6951:

Hammer trains run Soldiers gear usually

and of all the classes you want to remove burning from, you want to take it away from the one that actually has a flamethrower?

yeah, so they would have to make a choice about using it. I rarely see any condition Engineer using it – why? because of all the other conditions on the other kits and with the Burning on Crit makes up for it.

So, remove the Burning trait. Leave the Flamethrower and make them actually have to give up something to get access to the strongest (damage wise) condition.

My reason for removing it from Necromancer and Engineer is that they don’t need it. I guess you could say the same about Staff Mesmer, though they do have a rather big amount of access to conditions as well.

yeah i like this idea remove our burning trait and give flamethrower burning on every hit to balance it out what you think guys?

Frightlight.3796:

yeah i like this idea remove our burning trait and give flamethrower burning on every hit to balance it out what you think guys?

The Flamethrower could be buffed a bit with Burning. They should require using FT if they really want Burning. Seeing as they have SO much access to easily spammable conditions.

Auto attack – Increase Burning to 2 seconds.
Flame Blast – Increase cool down to 10 seconds. Add 3 second Burning to the 2nd part.

I think this would be enough of a change.

BlackBeard.2873:

Now rather than counting possible builds, let’s look at the most frequent builds you come across roaming (a good 50-70% depending on the server you are fighting):

1. Condi Engie (condition)
2. D/P thieves (direct – this isn’t b/c they are strong, its b/c many noobs are cowards)
3. PU Mesmer (condition AND cowards)
4. Condi Warrior

Your list is a dueling list. I see more then these roaming if your sitting here saying you never see guardians in roaming groups then not sure where you play.

No mobility warriors? Even though there is a thread on the front page complaining about them? No d/d Eles even though that is a very popular ele build? No s/d thieves? No s/p thieves?

Sorry I can’t buy your list for more then leaving build out to support your argument. You didn’t even have p/d perplex thieves. If the numbers don’t support you then there is nothing you can do about it.

I could have used popular spvp builds to prove my point since top teams only take 1-2 condi builds leaving 6+ usual direct damage builds. Nobody runs condi in pve all that is left is? WvW roaming and dueling(side meta). So let’s balance conditions because they counter some peoples dueling builds.