Guild Wars 2

Getting LF on every hit doesn’t make you better against CC or focus fire… at all. If you get focused and CCed you aren’t casting anything period.

“I fully agree with the UI complaints.

However, to be able to stomp or res in death shroud would allow you, if traited, to go every 7 seconds into death shroud with at least 3 seconds of stability (or more, depending on gear and other traits) and basicly do relatively safe stomps/resses in a super short interval. I think it is reasonable that this shouldn’t be possible."

SO , invul/block/aegis/stealth and other mechanics that make you invulnerable are not considered OP when ressing?

I trait FitG solely to have a chance stomping trough abusing the bug and even then it’s not certain at all.. you forget that damage overflows into hp when knocked out of DS, stomp on necro takes the full 3 seconds. boons can be ripped, converted and considering stability and maybe another boon being present it’s easy to rip a necro’s boons. FitG is only 3 sec stability and modifiers to have longer boon duration on necro is .. well.. ehrm.. you know.. even with longer duration 10% it’s still 3 sec.

So to compare DS bug abuse, that fails often enough and then it’s bye bye necro, to skills that other professions have to stomp is just simply rediculous considering all mentioned above.
Necro’s dont stomp unless they really know what they are doing.
You won’t go into DS ever 7 seconds, and if you trait for shorter DS CD (not skills) you basicly ruin your DS regen trough triats and can only flash it for fury retal and maybe stablity all on short duration.

2 cents for consideration

It seems that many are saying DS stomping/ressing via lag exploit is already weak/insufficient to contradict my claims it would be overpowered if it was a feature. If it is so weak, why do you want it as a feature anyway? If your argument would be a true representation of the gameplay, and I am not saying it is, then any demands of wanting DS interactions seems pointless or just a niche issue.

Of course DS interactions (as stomp/ress/commune and such) wouldn’t grant immunity. However, they would still grant a very good defensive ability while interacting on a short cool down of 7 or 10 seconds. The short cool down would be limited by life force generation of course. But if there are enough minions around to die, or if you used your DS to stomp foes, you’d have already a good life force influx, allowing you to get a very good defense on a short cool down and still be able to interact with the environment. That short cool down is the reason why I’d find it a bit strong.

All the examples you guys hold for comparison are on a long cool down. DS is not.

Bhawb.7408:

Getting LF on every hit doesn’t make you better against CC or focus fire… at all. If you get focused and CCed you aren’t casting anything period.

That’s exactly what I was getting at. That is counter play.

TyPin.9860:

But if there are enough minions around to die, or if you used your DS to stomp foes, you’d have already a good life force influx, allowing you to get a very good defense on a short cool down and still be able to interact with the environment.

You do know that necros dont gain any LF on deaths around them while in Ds, dont you?

Yes the no rez/stomping part in DS is really annoying but i dont think it is that importent that it necessarily needs a change. I mean most of the time i rez i get cced in some form not bursted down and the stability gained at the beginning of Ds (via trait) would only be useful for that if u do the stomp direct at the beginning, which you already can do if you exploit the bug.

Allowing to go though portels (like the one in Skyhammer) while in DS however would be nice…

But that aside my biggest problem is mainly that going into bloodmagic and using DS is counterproductive. I mean it cannot be that a professsion mechanic makes a trait tree useless half the them. Please note here this is not about balance but about a trait tree that becomes bad simply due the main profession mechanic. Though i am sure allowing bloodmagic traits (or healing in general) to work in Ds and balancing the whole thing is possible and would defenitly better than it is now.

TyPin.9860:

It seems that many are saying DS stomping/ressing via lag exploit is already weak/insufficient to contradict my claims it would be overpowered if it was a feature. If it is so weak, why do you want it as a feature anyway? If your argument would be a true representation of the gameplay, and I am not saying it is, then any demands of wanting DS interactions seems pointless or just a niche issue.

Of course DS interactions (as stomp/ress/commune and such) wouldn’t grant immunity. However, they would still grant a very good defensive ability while interacting on a short cool down of 7 or 10 seconds. The short cool down would be limited by life force generation of course. But if there are enough minions around to die, or if you used your DS to stomp foes, you’d have already a good life force influx, allowing you to get a very good defense on a short cool down and still be able to interact with the environment. That short cool down is the reason why I’d find it a bit strong.

All the examples you guys hold for comparison are on a long cool down. DS is not.

When you’ll know what is the difference between “quality of life change” and “buff”, I’ll take you more seriously. For now, your post doesn’t make sense to me.

Muchacho.2390:

TyPin.9860:

But if there are enough minions around to die, or if you used your DS to stomp foes, you’d have already a good life force influx, allowing you to get a very good defense on a short cool down and still be able to interact with the environment.

You do know that necros dont gain any LF on deaths around them while in Ds, dont you?

Then you just leave DS (if interaction during DS was a feature and DS wouldn’t interrupt actions) just before stomping to gain that life force. It doesn’t really contradict my point of view.

However, for the rest of your post, I agree with you. It is a bad design. No other profession is punished like that by using their F1-F4 ability. I also think it wouldn’t be a big deal, if life siphoning would be possible in DS. Atm life siphoning traits don’t do that much and a siphon build won’t be very competitive anyway. DS and life siphoning synergyzing might just make such builds competitive.

EDIT:
@Poplolita.2638:
That is a very cheap way of contradicting a person by not wanting to explain yourself. And you don’t take my opinion seriously? I see we have constructive criticism here.

There is difference between well thought out posts, and nonsenses. I’m not even sure you play competitive pvp or simply watch mistpedia for coming up with those posts tbh.

Bhawb.7408:

There is supposed to be counterplay to LF gain, that way the enemy actually has a way to avoid your sustain. That is why sustain tends to be tied to skills that have counterplay, or AAs that can be avoided in some way. But simply putting it on every single ability base is too much.

With my changes there would still be counterplay to life force gain. You would still be rewarded for dodging channeled skills, and all multi hit abilities. Unlike how it is now you wouldn’t be able to completely negate Necro’s Class Mechanic simply by avoiding a few key skills. No other class deals with management of their class mechanic like necros. It should be very easy to access deathshroud. Simply hitting a foe enough times should allow you to enter deathshroud because it is built as the overwhelming majority of our sustain currently.

I bet they are still scared from the beta where necros could endure the spam of a small zerg and walk away.

Bhawb.7408:

There is supposed to be counterplay to LF gain, that way the enemy actually has a way to avoid your sustain. That is why sustain tends to be tied to skills that have counterplay, or AAs that can be avoided in some way. But simply putting it on every single ability base is too much.

if only this were true for warrior sustain … healing signet
that aside

@ typin
the reason you keep hearing people say deathshroud stomping isnt that powerful is because its not that strong. however in some situations you might consider that stomping or rezzing (pve to has this in the game too) in deathshroud is beneficial.

this is more of a “quality of life change instead of a buff” however concerns are valid that deathshroud potentially may become too strong with this buff. Let me remind you it does have couterplay and while it may be strong in a team fight it also put the necromancer in a bad position (which is key for the necromancer)

some examples of having a good defensive mechanic working every 3 seconds to achieve stomp are
thieves – go into stealth
gaurdians 15 into radiance they can blind nearby foes (every time they try to use their interupt)
elmentalists 20 into earth magic 2 seconds of stabilty to their party (13 second cd 10 second traited)

btw a lot of eles dont use that trait for multiple reasons its the same with the necromancer it sounds good but isnt practicle

@Tadsoul.6951 & Poplolita.2638:
Thanks for the explanation Tadsoul. However, I am well aware of the difference between QoL and a buff (still, to draw the line between them is often a matter of personal preference and not that objective). I have explained that I find the short cool down potentially problematic, if you’d be able to interact during DS. Thus, it must be tested, if such a change really effects the game play in a negative or positive way.

I agree that some professions have access to short cool down stealth. This is indeed a valid argument, for their stealth allows relatively safe stomping.

However, it must be decided if we treat DS, if interactions were possible, similar to stealth. Meaning, should it be possible to commune during DS in PvP for instance? Should a necro in DS be able to contest cap points and such? I am not suggesting to treat DS similar to stealth (before someone jumps to early conclusions) I am just pointing out potential balance issues.

However, unlike some people (looking at you Poplolita), who try to get away with troll posts, I am trying to consider the consequences of certain implementations. It doesn’t mean that my concerns are correct, but the “do you even play this or that?”-tactic of discrediting someone’s position is childish and has no place in a constructive discussion.

Btw, for the off chance that Poplolita is ready for a serious discussion, I’ll answer the question. I play mainly mesmer, seconds most played professions is the necromancer, both in PvP and WvW.

Bhawb.7408:

There is supposed to be counterplay to LF gain, that way the enemy actually has a way to avoid your sustain. That is why sustain tends to be tied to skills that have counterplay, or AAs that can be avoided in some way. But simply putting it on every single ability base is too much.

How do you avoid warrior from getting Adrenaline then? They use it for sustain, next to attacks, as well (see: cleansing ire).

Also, who said that there is supposed to be counter play to LF gain? Is that an official ANet statement, or just simply the case as of now?

Kuju.2153:

If anything else they could actually look at the traited auto-crit 1 spam crap power necros can do (sorry that and Lich AA spam for damage is really boring to watch and counter LOS/reflect).

While as a power necro I can feel for you, (not joking), nerfing ds1 too much would destroy the class for wvw. It would most definitely be the worst class for that gamemode. Then I would quit.
For pvp yeah it should be toned down for sure.

Warriors getting adrenaline means relatively little. Yes they’d be weaker without it, but it doesn’t give them a lot without traiting (and we can trait for spammy LF if we want, see Reaper’s Precision, Soul Marks), whereas our LF gives us a massive amount of HP.

I think the lf generation on most weapons is ok and doesnt need improvment. The exception would be szepter (too hard to land in my opinion) and maybe dagger offhand (only offhand without any lf generation skill).

@TyPin
During almost 2 years, the necromancer community is asking for quality of life change, not buff (Huge difference, and I’ll explain why). Back then, death shroud was the downed state mechanic of the Necromancer, death shroud having only 4 skills was not a coincidence. When they decided to change it, they ran out of time, thus necromancer was stuck with unintended bugs and features until this day.

As a first step, arenaNet fixed:

1. Death shroud user interface, you can now see boons, conditions, endurance and your hp bar. They also added a 5th skill.

2. They fixed necromancer downed state bug; you received double the damage before the fix. Same with death shroud.

3. We can now see the amount of life force we have.

Now what we’re missing are:

1. Seeing your utility skill cooldowns while in death shroud
2. Build Synergy: An entire tree is non-viable because it counters necromancer own mechanic.

*The reason why I called you out, and for many more reasons explained below”
3. Reezing, and stomping in death shroud. It was not intended, it was a direct result of death shroud last minute change back in beta.

If they ever fix the #3, foot in the grave+ death shroud won’t be op because:

1: Stability buff can be corrupted, stolen, and removed.
2: Death shroud is a finite resource, and it takes time to gain LF as condition necro. Poison+cleave/condition both downed/necromancer.
3: Necromancer has to watch its own position, or he’ll be the one who’ll need to be reezed and not the other way around…
4: ArenaNet might nerf this trait. They “nerfed” death shroud in order to fix it, it was working as a block.
5: Most importantly, it’s not a popular trait.

4. Necro hp bar confusion in party

I love Death Shroud. But I will admit that it does frustrate me that I can’t revive other players while using it. Leastways, it doesn’t seem like I can.

I’m personally of the opinion that, while necro is OVERALL in a decent place right now, DS is incredibly unbalanced as a survivability mechanic. A necro with a full life bar is incredibly tanky 1v1, but if you have no life force (such as at the beginning of a match) you’re easy prey to pretty much anyone. This was a conscious design decision by the devs: you get no escapes, no vigor, no blocks, no invulnerabilities, very little stability, but you get a second health bar. But I don’t think they realise just how situational that is from a balancing perspective, and I don’t think it’s even possible to balance such a mechanic. And while I also like the thematic idea of necros becoming more powerful the more you wail on them, DS doesn’t really accomplish that: it’s not as if you build LF as you get hit, except when under the effect of spectral skills, and it’s not as if DS skills are significantly more powerful than your utility or weapon skills. In fact, since most professions will use chain-CC to burst you down, they will lock you out of 4/5 of your DS skills anyway.

IMO Death Shroud should work more like warriors’ adrenaline: it should be faster to build up, and faster to burn down. DS should not be a transformation, but rather its 2-5 abilities be bound to F1-F4 and require life force to activate. Then necros’ weapon skills and utilities reworked to provide the kind of extra survivability that having that extra effective HP used to provide – ie. make necros work more like everyone else, and therefore easier to balance!

Kuju.2153:

. I still think DS #2 should be a skillshot to give Necro a small 600 range teleport option

OMG I would necrogasm so hard if they made that change! Dark Path is a great damage skill, but with its slow projectile speed it’s pretty terrible as a gap closer (which was what it was intended for – I can literally outrun the projectile with swiftness!). With that one change they could turn it into a decent gap closer, an escape, or even a general mobility skill, which necros seriously need right now. I’d even take a cooldown nerf to 20" to have it targeted!

Dark Path will never become a ground-targeted teleport. It was like that in beta and its too strong without hammering the skill with other nerfs.

Bhawb.7408:

Dark Path will never become a ground-targeted teleport. It was like that in beta and its too strong without hammering the skill with other nerfs.

It could of happened before april 15th but I agree that change probably won’t happen because dark path becomes way too strong with poc.

zapv.8051:

Bhawb.7408:

Dark Path will never become a ground-targeted teleport. It was like that in beta and its too strong without hammering the skill with other nerfs.

It could of happened before april 15th but I agree that change probably won’t happen because dark path becomes way too strong with poc.

Also, it’ll make necromancer a very mobile profession which is against Anet philosophy.

Poplolita.2638:

zapv.8051:

Bhawb.7408:

Dark Path will never become a ground-targeted teleport. It was like that in beta and its too strong without hammering the skill with other nerfs.

It could of happened before april 15th but I agree that change probably won’t happen because dark path becomes way too strong with poc.

Also, it’ll make necromancer a very mobile profession which is against Anet philosophy.

On the other hand, Necro philosophy is supposed to be attrition but Necro design has the worst attrition of all professions. Might as well go with best mobility if we’re supposed to do everything we should backwards.

The beta Dark Path is not as powerful as people think. That was when we had Shade, unkillable Lich and a whole bunch of things making Necro far more powerful than it currently is. DP by itself would not break the Necro into unheard of levels of OP. It’s not healing signet people, it actually has a cd and every other prof would still have better mobility, yes even Guardians.

Dark Path’s functionality is fine as it is, it just needs a couple tweaks, not an overhaul.

I’d be happy with a slight projectile speed boost (so you can’t just out-run it) and if it checked its range from the necro on impact, not its range from cast location. That would make it a strong chase tool, but still useless as a gap-opener.

I want a death shroud quality of life redesign before I care about switching dark path, plus how does that work with path of corruption? I"m far more concerned with death shroud being more friendly with or the necro and everyone else than changing dark path.

Kiriakulos.1690:

On the other hand, Necro philosophy is supposed to be attrition but Necro design has the worst attrition of all professions

What the hell? Did you read this thread, and many others about the same issue? Or did you just read the part with “dark path”?

Poplolita.2638:

Kiriakulos.1690:

On the other hand, Necro philosophy is supposed to be attrition but Necro design has the worst attrition of all professions

What the hell? Did you read this thread, and many others about the same issue? Or did you just read the part with “dark path”?

Just showing how the whole "philosophy"argument means jack kitten.

Bhawb.7408:

Dark Path will never become a ground-targeted teleport. It was like that in beta and its too strong without hammering the skill with other nerfs.

As I’ve said before though, turning it into a ground-targeted skill would require you to lead your target, making it less reliable to hit and thereby inherently nerfing its combat effectiveness unless you’ve had years of using the rocket launcher in Quake 3 or something. Remember, it’s a really small aoe, and it doesn’t stay on the ground like marks do: it wouldn’t be as easy to hit with it!

Domzz.1260:

Endure pain is the only thing that’s about equivalent to the death shroud — and that only lasts 8 seconds with a long cooldown. Condition damage doesn’t tick in DS — you can literally sit out a condi spike in death shroud, it’s pretty BS — unlike any of the other things you’ve mentioned.

You lost all credibility when you said that conditions don’t tick while you’re in DS. I can’t take you seriously. You’re like another a t s e.

Go away now.

manveruppd.7601:

As I’ve said before though, turning it into a ground-targeted skill would require you to lead your target, making it less reliable to hit and thereby inherently nerfing its combat effectiveness unless you’ve had years of using the rocket launcher in Quake 3 or something. Remember, it’s a really small aoe, and it doesn’t stay on the ground like marks do: it wouldn’t be as easy to hit with it!

You wouldn’t need to hit your target, because your target is an unmoving wall that you are about to teleport through.

@Poplolita.2638:
You may think there is a huge difference between a buff and a QoL change. But there isn’t. What you explained was how DS came to works as it works atm. That is no justification for any change; the actual balance is. And as I have already mentioned, the ability to interact in DS with your surroundings might not have such a strong impact, as I think it would have. But this is up to actual testing.

You demanding DS interactions as a QoL change means nothing. You want a change to DS that can turn out to be a buff. Hiding behind such rather meaningless definitions says nothing about the actual impact of a change.

TyPin.9860:

@Poplolita.2638:
You may think there is a huge difference between a buff and a QoL change. But there isn’t. What you explained was how DS came to works as it works atm. That is no justification for any change; the actual balance is. And as I have already mentioned, the ability to interact in DS with your surroundings might not have such a strong impact, as I think it would have. But this is up to actual testing.

You demanding DS interactions as a QoL change means nothing. You want a change to DS that can turn out to be a buff. Hiding behind such rather meaningless definitions says nothing about the actual impact of a change.

This is the reason why I did not want to have a discussion with you. You only deserve 2 sentences.

Poplolita.2638:

TyPin.9860:

@Poplolita.2638:
You may think there is a huge difference between a buff and a QoL change. But there isn’t. What you explained was how DS came to works as it works atm. That is no justification for any change; the actual balance is. And as I have already mentioned, the ability to interact in DS with your surroundings might not have such a strong impact, as I think it would have. But this is up to actual testing.

You demanding DS interactions as a QoL change means nothing. You want a change to DS that can turn out to be a buff. Hiding behind such rather meaningless definitions says nothing about the actual impact of a change.

This is the reason why I did not want to have a discussion with you. You only deserve 2 sentences.

You mean you don’t want someone to speak out a different opinion like your’s? To me you don’t make yourself very clear.

My concerns are that DS interactions might effect game balance in a negative way, because of the low cool down of DS. As far as I understand your counter argument is, that it is a QoL change. So you meet concerns with a definition. The actual balance doesn’t care, with what intentions a change was made. It only “cares” about how stuff actually works. There are other counter arguments to my concerns, such like short cool down stealth skills and such already available to other professions. But it being supposedly a QoL change instead of a buff doesn’t change in the end how it works.

I’d rather being able to stomp/res in all transformations, not just Death Shroud. Moa could conceivably be excluded, though.

TyPin.9860:

Poplolita.2638:

TyPin.9860:

@Poplolita.2638:
You may think there is a huge difference between a buff and a QoL change. But there isn’t. What you explained was how DS came to works as it works atm. That is no justification for any change; the actual balance is. And as I have already mentioned, the ability to interact in DS with your surroundings might not have such a strong impact, as I think it would have. But this is up to actual testing.

You demanding DS interactions as a QoL change means nothing. You want a change to DS that can turn out to be a buff. Hiding behind such rather meaningless definitions says nothing about the actual impact of a change.

This is the reason why I did not want to have a discussion with you. You only deserve 2 sentences.

You mean you don’t want someone to speak out a different opinion like your’s? To me you don’t make yourself very clear.

My concerns are that DS interactions might effect game balance in a negative way, because of the low cool down of DS. As far as I understand your counter argument is, that it is a QoL change. So you meet concerns with a definition. The actual balance doesn’t care, with what intentions a change was made. It only “cares” about how stuff actually works. There are other counter arguments to my concerns, such like short cool down stealth skills and such already available to other professions. But it being supposedly a QoL change instead of a buff doesn’t change in the end how it works.

The only thing that could be considered a buff is the 5th death shroud skill, and -2. Build Synergy: An entire tree is non-viable because it counters necromancer own mechanic-.

As for the rest, if you consider fixing bugs, and adding visible informations as buffs… 2 sentences.

@Poplolita.2638:
I don’t care it its a buff or not. Such definitions are meaningless. I care how balance is effected. And interactions in DS can effect balance (also, if supposedly QoL change effects how hard or easy it is to execute certain tactics, then it also can effect balance). DS interactions would not only allow ressing and stomping but also communing, using siege and such things. That is not only a tool tip or visible information change.

You seem not ready to really discuss the issue but rather stay in your world of definitions. And DS interactions, as mentioned, are definitely more than just adding some information.

I think deathshroud is a good idea however it should be done different imo. F1 should be a power type deathshroud, with the AA it has now and other power based attacks, and there should be an F2 thats more condi based. the hybrid set up it has now is awkward imo

TyPin.9860:

@Poplolita.2638:
I don’t care it its a buff or not. Such definitions are meaningless. I care how balance is effected. And interactions in DS can effect balance (also, if supposedly QoL change effects how hard or easy it is to execute certain tactics, then it also can effect balance). DS interactions would not only allow ressing and stomping but also communing, using siege and such things. That is not only a tool tip or visible information change.

You seem not ready to really discuss the issue but rather stay in your world of definitions. And DS interactions, as mentioned, are definitely more than just adding some information.

Why do you keep discussing with me? Of course, quality of change does affect balance. My only concern with you is that you still don’t know what’s the difference between quality of life change, and buff. Both affect balance in their own way, but they are 2 different beasts. One is to improve one class gameplay by fixing bugs, removing exploits, adding visible information without giving a kitten about balance. (See: Mesmer sword #3, death shroud fall damage exploit/“block” change, etc)

The other increases a profession effectiveness (Dps/support/cc/conditon/boons) – this one gives a kitten about balance.

Now, troll time:

1. You have 0 spvp/tpvp experience. What do you know about balance?
2. You are not Roe/Spoj/Lordrosicky/bhawb etc etc which are the players I respect the most. If they tell me I’m wrong, I will definitly consider my position.
3. You obviously know nothing about necromancer 2 years historic since beta.

4. “DS interactions would not only allow ressing and stomping but also communing, using siege and such things. "

I already told you why it won’t be OP : Copy/paste:

1: Stability buff can be corrupted, stolen, and removed.
2: Death shroud is a finite resource, and it takes time to gain LF as condition necro. Poison+cleave/condition both downed/necromancer.
3: Necromancer has to watch its own position, or he’ll be the one who’ll need to be reezed and not the other way around…
4: ArenaNet might nerf this trait. They “nerfed” death shroud in order to fix it, it was working as a block.
5: Most importantly, it’s not a popular trait

“communing, using siege and such things. " Really? Are you just against general death shroud interaction just cuz? I guess the “such things” is going “through the skyhammer portal”.

“You seem not ready to really discuss (…)”

No, I just don’t want to discuss with an ignorant poster. I thought I made it clear with my first post. Apparently, it wasn’t enough.

/sigh ’nuff said.

@Poplolita.2638:
Lol, I keep discussing with you, because you initially disregarded my arguments just because you claimed I wouldn’t know the difference between a buff and a QoL change. You basically disregarded my words with a definition, that has no impact on the change itself. It only indicates the intention of a change.

You on the other hand made it appear as if such definitions would effect the actual balance. Both a QoL change, same as a straight out buff, can effect balance. There is a clear difference in intention, so far I agree. Like you said, adding visible information, removing exploits or bugs and such. However, such fixes can turn out a straight out buff. This is why the name of the change doesn’t matter.

The only thing you did is adequately meeting my rather trollish post about the “if it’s not that strong anyway, why do you want it”. However, your differentiation between buff and QoL makes only a notable difference in intention and doesn’t really say smth about resulting balance.

Your “2 year necro history” anecdotes are also not really an argument I can take seriously. They make your own frustration obvious, okay, but nothing more. I like to play necro myself (2nd to my main mesmer) and I know the DS issues first hand.

Also, your arguments don’t say why DS interactions wouldn’t be OP. They say why you think they wouldn’t be OP (same level as difference between buff and QoL talks). But to address it:

1. Yes, stability can be ripped, but reapplied 7-10 seconds later after leaving DS. This issue is the same now and does only scratches the potential DS interaction effects.
2. This is one of the parts that needs testing imho. Personally I have the feeling to have a huge LF intake once the match – jotjoin and soloQ, and in WvW LF isn’t an issue anyway – is on its way. It can be limiting if you are under huge fire ofc; this is a discussion about very situational… well… situations. That’s why testing it would be required.
3. Everyone has to watch his/her position. Results in the same situational issue as the 2nd point.
4. well… really? They might make stability unrippable…
5. The trait is unpopular. However, with DS interactions it might just be a way to go. I know several necro condition dmg builds who like to use that trait. Also, the stability through traiting is not the only issue arising with DS interactions.

All in all it comes down to testing it. I am not sure myself, if DS interactions will be really that strong (as already mentioned). That’s why I pointed in several posts to the need of testing it.

P.S.: I hope we now finally get rid of the subtle personal attacks… Also, I chose to not address your troll part… not sure why you included it anyway in your post.