Guild Wars 2

Hi Everyone.
So for the past few weeks I have noticed that people have been saying " nah ah Conditions are OP" and then the other’s on the fence are saying " Nah ah conditions dont do as much dps as powa"

So I am going to try and gather number’s using the equations from the wiki

Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

and the one for crit and crit damage

Average damage = Base damage * ( 1 – Critical Chance ) + Base damage * ( Critical Chance * (Critical Damage + 1.5) )
Average damage = Base damage * ( 1 – Critical Chance + Critical Chance * (Critical Damage + 1.5) )
Average damage = Base damage * ( 1 + Critical Chance * ( Critical Damage + 0.5) )

Question.

What class are people sticking in Dire?
Besides thief?

A lot of classes would be benefited more from having Rabid and a few pieces of dire vs going full dire, because of the proc’s from sigil’s or traits.

So just simple curiosity..

I should also note that I am doing this because I am going to try and make a numerical comparison of dire v soldiers
dire v knights
rabid v knights
then rabid v zerk and dire v zerk
Though we all know that zerk outdamages them some people need to see that in number’s before they actually believe it.

Any real mathematician is welcome to help ( please o god help me)
And if you have a build that is run by the majority of the meta that you want to offer up then send me a message with it.

I also am no expert at Excel, so anyone that is great at plugging in formula’s and doesnt have an anxiety attack from math, you are welcome to help also.

Because once we have the number’s we can then start to factor in the access to both condition damage removal and regeneration effects.

For condition damage we have a site that actually calculates everything but torment.
http://gw2.hazno.net/

Torment formula is
(0.0375 * Condition Damage) + (0.375 * Level) + 1.875 per stack per second
(0.0375 * Condition Damage) + 31.875 per stack per second at level 80
According to the wiki.

-P.S.
I am a musician so math is really not my strong suit and I will be doing my best to be accurate, also this will take me some time to compile with RL stuff so don’t expect this to be done in a few days or weeks. Again, anyone that is actually interested in helping the community and good with math ( or a dev with these number’s already that would like to post a spreadsheet- HINT HINT) is welcome to help

I need Builds

So that I can get some idea of an accurate comparison. I’m looking for build’s that are viable, and that work.

Not some mystical unicorn that has access to 12 sigil’s and 7k toughness.

Anyone willing to post either a soldier’s build or a dire build that works?

Using this calculator or something similair that show’s weapon damage tooltips?
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

Solori.6025:

I need Builds

So that I can get some idea of an accurate comparison. I’m looking for build’s that are viable, and that work.

Not some mystical unicorn that has access to 12 sigil’s and 7k toughness.

Anyone willing to post either a soldier’s build or a dire build that works?

Using this calculator or something similair that show’s weapon damage tooltips?
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

this is the Meta scrub dumbfire/SoS build that most Terrible necro’s use (full dire)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQNArYWjc0UebjN+2webCB6RvgLgYkijJYoUUOpDA-z0BB4iCik0gkHBKTtIas1gFRjVJjIqWpEjUAQMNC-w

here is my build which I have used since about February of last year. (no dumbfire needed)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQNArYWjc0UebtNG3webCQSx1PPpI7vjeccwKD-zUCB4igoOBikGk8IQZSFRjtGsIasKZC1qbY6YJKAwBABdLFAETjA-w

Ill even add some highlights
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3643756 me vs Meta scrub build
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3643782 me vs Meta scrub build part 2 (no plauge sig for me)
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3859700 me vs best condi warr I have faced
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3593925 me vs guard (no food ftw!)

and last but not least the ROFLSTOMP
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3439319 me vs warr (he asked for it )

Thank you good sir

Should be pretty easy to figure out dude without any spreadsheets or anything. Here I will break it down for you. To do good raw damage you need power precision and crit dmg/ferocity. You also need defensive stats like vit and toughness to survive more than a few seconds. So thats 5 total stats you need but you could probably get away with 4 no vit on a warrior. Only 3 stats come on gear.

To do high condi damage you only need condi dmg. Condi duration helps some but its not 100% needed. So with 1 Stat you have all the damage you need or 2 if you really want duration as well. This leaves you 1 or 2 more stats to stack with your gear/runes to help you survive.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Should be pretty easy to figure out dude without any spreadsheets or anything. Here I will break it down for you. To do good raw damage you need power precision and crit dmg/ferocity. You also need defensive stats like vit and toughness to survive more than a few seconds. So thats 5 total stats you need but you could probably get away with 4 no vit on a warrior. Only 3 stats come on gear.

To do high condi damage you only need condi dmg. Condi duration helps some but its not 100% needed. So with 1 Stat you have all the damage you need or 2 if you really want duration as well. This leaves you 1 or 2 more stats to stack with your gear/runes to help you survive.

To do high condi damage you only need condi dmg and precision, and condi duration…
which would be same as power, precision, crit damage, if there was condi duration stuff… but there’s not much of it, so hard to get in basic build… (giver on weapon is the only one that has it (condition duration/precision/vitality)

min condition duration one needs is 50%, so that a 2 sec condi lasts 3 ticks (50% does not help ticking condition that lasts 1 second).
So, one can get 30 condi duration from traits, then needs to take 2 weapons on each switch to get another 20 (one-handed weapon still give 10%, not 20).
50% can be gotten through food to get the needed 100%.

So, please, stop spreading flase informations… Dire is the equivalent of soldier, no stat set is available to be the equivalent of berserkers…

Solori.6025:

Thank you good sir

here is a full soldiers necro set. (-65% condi duration)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQNAnYWjc00SbNNO2whbiA6x7rlziZcshRfocA-z0BBofCikFRkIAI1sIaslRFRjVZDT9iIqOAACA7cn7cn7cnlCgJhRA-w

Brando.1374:

Solori.6025:

Thank you good sir

here is a full soldiers necro set. (-65% condi duration)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQNAnYWjc00SbNNO2whbiA6x7rlziZcshRfocA-z0BBofCikFRkIAI1sIaslRFRjVZDT9iIqOAACA7cn7cn7cnlCgJhRA-w

Thank’s again brando

I will use these two build’s first in the comparison.

Also, to note.

Condition needs duration and to have the most conditions per second you need the extra proc from sigil’s

For classes that dont have great access to conditions precision is a must, or you can be outconditioned by everyone else that does get the proc’s

its like

if a dire build has an auto attack that put’s one bleed vs a rabid who’s auto attack put’s on two
in the long run who has more bleed dps?
sure the dire has a fluff of vit, and for some classes that is better..

But take for example a mesmer v mesmer one in dire and one in rabid..

The rabid mesmer will win, simply because of the higher bleed uptime from sharper images ( greatsword clones hurt)

If you’re going to be doing comparisons, there are several things to look at:

#1: Tooltip armor is listed assuming 2600 armor rating of the target. Adjust tooltip damage accordingly by using the formula: Tooltip Damage x 2600/(armor) = adjusted damage.

#2: Attack rate and attack frequency. How much damage is done means very little when it takes forever, so a DPS comparison is often more important than a damage comparison. So, take the following into account:

Attack activation time
Attack post-activation delay
Attack chains and skill rotation
Length of these attack rotations
Recharge time of attacks

#3: How to consider conditions. There are two ways to consider it: conditions can be seen as a total amount of damage with a delayed effect (thus, for any attack that applies conditions, you can say that attack does x amount of damage, and takes y number of seconds to execute). This method can compare the efficiency of attacks, and can be compared to power builds on a blow by blow basis.

Second way is to consider conditions as a scaling DPS. While power is static, conditions take awhile to build steam, so you’ll have to consider stuff like the average number of sustained stacks of conditions a build can have, as well as the average uptime of non permanently sustained conditions. This can graph the growth and sustain of damage via conditions that has better real world implication, but nonetheless is a pain to actually do.

I wish you the best of luck. I’ve done a few spot comparisons in the past, but I’ve never done a full “analyze all builds compared to all other builds”.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

If you’re going to be doing comparisons, there are several things to look at:

#1: Tooltip armor is listed assuming 2600 armor rating of the target. Adjust tooltip damage accordingly by using the formula: Tooltip Damage x 2600/(armor) = adjusted damage.

#2: Attack rate and attack frequency. How much damage is done means very little when it takes forever, so a DPS comparison is often more important than a damage comparison. So, take the following into account:

Attack activation time
Attack post-activation delay
Attack chains and skill rotation
Length of these attack rotations
Recharge time of attacks

#3: How to consider conditions. There are two ways to consider it: conditions can be seen as a total amount of damage with a delayed effect (thus, for any attack that applies conditions, you can say that attack does x amount of damage, and takes y number of seconds to execute). This method can compare the efficiency of attacks, and can be compared to power builds on a blow by blow basis.

Second way is to consider conditions as a scaling DPS. While power is static, conditions take awhile to build steam, so you’ll have to consider stuff like the average number of sustained stacks of conditions a build can have, as well as the average uptime of non permanently sustained conditions. This can graph the growth and sustain of damage via conditions that has better real world implication, but nonetheless is a pain to actually do.

I wish you the best of luck. I’ve done a few spot comparisons in the past, but I’ve never done a full “analyze all builds compared to all other builds”.

Yeaaa I will need all the luck I can muster, and I will take that into consideration, first though I want to get the raw number’s before I start taking in factors, for example, with runes of lyssa, you wont have a max stat of every condition, or with -condi duration runes and food, it is unlikely to hit a high stack of any condition, you throw in random removal’s then you have a checkers board of variables. The same can be said for power attacks if they are all melee ( but seriously the only class that should have that issue is the ele) If your target is out of range you dont do damage, if they mistime a dodge though, you could land a big hit on them and there goes the fight or advantage they had. Or if you’re a warrior you can auto attack for 2k -3k on an axe.

To- re iterate==
This will not be a few day, or few weeks thing, because I am bad, and not well versed in math…

BUT
Builds are much appreciated..

OK somewhere I am doing this math wrong…

So with a warrior
I did
857*2194*563 / 2628 and i got 715,654

I did something wrong T_T

Old School D/D Elementalist

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vEAQJAoIhMMKc24wzZAg8wFTYRU4hyjcmxGA-zECBofBkEBkKAI1sIasVXaslXCRKbYqXER1kCQPhRA-w

Some people probably still run this in full soldier but this is how it would be ran if you ran it in soldiers gear. Not much crit damage in this but wanted to make it pure for you usually some cav, knights, or zerk pieces mixed in but this can work for dire v soldier.