Guild Wars 2

GRENADIER: “THE SPAMGINEER"
The typical Engineer is a walking cloud of passive trait, sigil and rune procs. Fighting an Engineer is fighting a cloud of spam that quickly comes off of cool-down and requires little planning, positioning or timing to cast. It is no big deal for an Engineer to throw the entire [Grenade Kit] either off-handedly in mid-combat or as a combat opener the skills all have very short cast-times and come off cool-down rather quickly. This kind of play-style is a symptom of Engineer game-play. There are a lot of skills use, but none of it is particularly thoughtful given short cast-times and/or easy-to-land AoEs. Moreover, it’s not just [Grenade Kit]. Most meta Engineers are very spam-centric; throwing away skills left and right with little down-time because doing so is very, very effective and skill recharges are typically rather low. What’s worse is then everything is compounded by the sheer number of passive procs that most Engineers run to constantly amplify their skill spam.

Through cast-time and recharge adjustments, some over-tuned Engineer weapon sets are brought in line to a more thoughtful play-style revolving around positioning, timing and aim.

A NOTE:
I’ve included a draft for a [Bomb Kit] functionality change. It’s drastic, and I’m not entirely sure about it. The only trouble right now is that [Bomb Kit] is just another weapon set that invites the player to press all of the buttons willynilly and will rarely punish him/her for doing so. The charge-up throw mechanic is meant to alleviate that by introducing cast-times and the ability to position bombs, but I’m just not sure that it’s the best path for [Bomb Kit]. Feel free to discuss, though, because the [Bomb Kit] as it stands is just more poor spam-centric game-play (especially after the radius buff patch) and it does need a change. I just hesitate to give it a revert and maybe some cool-down increases because that seems like a lazy fix.

Pistol main-hand skills
[Poison Dart Volley] (2) – NAME CHANGED TO – [Poison Dart Bomb] (2)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Recharge: 12 seconds
• Fire an arcing dart bomb from your pistol that explodes at target area, leaving behind a cloud that poisons foes.
• Explosion damage: 336 (1.0)
• Explosion poison: 3 seconds
• Explosion radius: 180
• Cloud duration: 2 seconds
• Cloud pulse:1 second
• Cloud poison per pulse: 2 seconds
• Cloud radius: 180
• Combo Field: Poison
• Minimum range: 50
• Range: 900
  • This skill shares its projectile behaviour with that of Thief [Cluster Bomb].
  • This skill chains into another skill upon completion: [Detonate Poison Bomb].

Pistol off-hand skills
[Blowtorch] (4)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 1½ seconds
• Recharge: 15 seconds
• Channel a cone of flames from your pistol. The final burst of flame from this attack burns foes and deals more damage the closer you are to your targets.
• First 2 hits damage (2x): 440 (1.0)
• Final burst at 200-600 range: Damage: 220 (0.5); Burning: 2 seconds
• Final burst at 0-200 range: Damage: 570 (0.9); Burning: 5 seconds
• Range: 600
  • Hits up to 5 foes.
  • This skill strikes 3 times total; one strike every ½ second.
  • This skill uses an orange-colored Guardian [Cleansing Flame] cone.

[Glue Shot] (5)

• Added a minimum range: 50

Rifle skills
[Net Shot] (2)

• Recharge increased from 10 seconds to 12 seconds.

[Blunderbuss] (3)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ¾ second
• Recharge: 10 seconds
• Fire a cloud of shrapnel that causes more damage the closer you are to foes.
• 600 – 400 range: Damage: 211 (0.5); Bleeding (1): 6 seconds
• 400 – 200 range: Damage: 386 (1.0); Bleeding (3): 6 seconds
• 200 – 0 range: Damage: 618 (1.6); Bleeding (5): 6 seconds
• Range: 600

[Overcharged Shot] (4)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 1¼ second
• Recharge: 15 seconds
• Fire a blast so strong that it knocks back both you and your target. You also cure immobilized, crippled and chilled. This blast’s effect is stronger based on how long you channel it.
• Damage: 386 (1.0)
• Self knock-back distance: 300
• ¼-second channel: Foe knock-back distance: 450
• Full channel: Foe launch distance: 450
• Range: 400

[Jump Shot] (5)

• Radius decreased from 240 to 180.

Tool Belt skills
[Toss Elixir R]

• Recharge increased from 120 seconds to 150 seconds.

[Net Attack]

• Immobilized duration reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds.

[Toss Elixir C]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Recharge: 40 seconds
• Toss Elixir C, creating a field that converts conditions on allies into boons.
• Field duration: 3 seconds
• Field pulse: 1 second
• Conditions converted per second: 1
• Field radius: 180
• Combo Field: Water
• Range: 900
  • This skill uses the Guardian [Contemplation of Purity] condition-into-boon conversion table.

[Toss Elixir U]

• Recharge reduced from 60 seconds to 50 seconds.

[Incendiary Ammo] – NAME CHANGED TO – [Incendiary Round].

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Recharge: 20 seconds
• Fire a round from your tool belt that burns your foe.
• Damage: 65 (0.2)
• Burning: 4 seconds
• Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
• Range: 1000
  • This skill uses an orange-colored Elementalist [Water Blast] projectile.
  • This skill shares its projectile behaviour with that of Engineer [Surprise Shot].

[Grenade Barrage]

• Cast-time increased from ½ second to 1 second.
• Recharge increased from 30 seconds to 40 seconds.
• Added a minimum range: 50

Elixir skills
[Elixir R]

• Cast-time reduced from ¼ second to 0.
• Now only recovers 50% endurance.
• Now breaks stun.

[Elixir U]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• I don’t have any idea for this at the moment, but this skill is garbage (aside from the fact that it’s a stun-break, I guess) and should really be functionally changed into something that has a greater party-support aspect instead of “HAHA, I’M ATTACKING FASTER FOR 6 SECONDS.”

[Elixir S]

• Duration reduced from 3 to 2 seconds.
  • Now chains into another skill upon use: [Shoelace Tangle].

[Shoelace Tangle]

• Recharge: 5 seconds
• Cast-time: 1 second
• Tangle up your foe’s feet with wire, knocking your target down.
• Knockdown: 2 seconds
• Range: 100
  • This skill is only active while [Elixir S] is in effect.
  • This skill only hits 1 target.

Elixir Gun Kit skills
[Tranquilizer Dart]

• Bleeding stack duration reduced from 4 seconds to 3 seconds.

[Fumigate]

• Recharge increased from 12 to 15 seconds.
• Now removes up to one condition from the Engineer upon use.

[Acid Bomb]

• Now grants a ½ second of evasion upon use.

Flamethrower Kit skills
[Flame Jet] (1)

• Channel time adjusted from 2¼ seconds to 1¾ seconds.
• Attacks lowered from 10 to 3.
• Damage per hit adjusted from 49 (0.15) to 126 (0.5).
• Total damage therefore adjusted from (10x): 490 (1.5) to (3x): 378 (1.5).
• Strikes per second therefore adjusted from 1 strike every 0.2 seconds to 1 strike every 0.5 seconds.
• Full auto-attack sequence cast-time therefore adjusted from 2.57 seconds to 2.07 seconds.

[Flame Blast] (2)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Recharge: 6 seconds
• Fire a ball of volatile napalm that lands at target location. After 2 seconds, this ball explodes, damaging nearby foes.
• Delay: 2 seconds
• Damage: 569 (1.75)
• Damage radius: 240
• Range: 900
  • This skill’s projectile now shares its behaviour with that of Thief [Choking Gas].
  • This skill now produces a red circle.
  • This skill no longer chains into another skill.

[Air Blast] (3)

• Recharge increased from 15 seconds to 20 seconds.
• Now also counts as a Blast Finisher.

[Napalm] (4)

• Recharge reduced from 30 to 20 seconds.
• Napalm wall duration reduced from 10 to 5 seconds.
• This skill now also cripples (2 seconds) players that pass through it.

[Smoke Vent] (5)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 0
• Recharge: 30 seconds
• Vent smoke from your flamethrower, blinding adjacent foes with the smoke cloud.
• Blind (2): 3 seconds
• Cloud duration: 2 seconds
• Cloud pulse: 1 second
• Cloud radius: 180
• Combo Field: Smoke

Tool Kit skills
[Thwack] (1-3)

• Damage reduced from 569 (1.75) to 554 (1.5).
• This skill now cleaves.

[Box of Nails] (2)

• Cast-time reduced from 1 second to ¾ second.

[Gear Shield] (4)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 1½ seconds
• Recharge: 20 seconds
• Block attacks with a gear shield. If you block three attacks, your gear shield shatters, crippling and bleeding adjacent foes with metal shrapnel.
• Block duration: 2 seconds
• Bleeding (2): 5 seconds
• Crippled: 2 seconds
• Radius: 150

Grenade Kit skills
[Grenade]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 1 second
• Throw a grenade that explodes.
• Damage: 252 (0.75)
• Explosion radius: 120
• Vulnerability (2): 4 seconds
• Range: 1200
  • After-cast adjusted from (current?) to 0.40 second.
  • This skill is now a functional auto-attack.
  • This skill shares its projectile behavior with that of Elementalist [Fireball].

[Shrapnel Grenade]

• This skill now always throws 3 grenades.
• Individual grenade radius reduced from 150 to 120.
• Recharge increased from 5 seconds to 15 seconds.
• Bleeding per grenade changed from 1 stack for 12 seconds to 2 stacks for 5 seconds.
• The grenade placement spread for this skill is now inverted. Grenades now leave the Engineer in a scattered spread (similar to how grenades land when thrown at maximum range) and gather to a point as they travel farther through the air.
• Added a minimum range: 50

[Flash Grenade]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Recharge: 10 seconds
• Throw a grenade that explodes in a blinding flash.
• Damage: 33 (0.1)
• Blind: 5 seconds
• Explosion radius: 180
• Range: 1200

[Freeze Grenade]

• This skill now always throws 3 grenades.
• Individual grenade radius reduced from 240 to 180.
• Recharge increased from 20 seconds to 25 seconds.
• The grenade placement spread for this skill is now inverted. Grenades now leave the Engineer in a scattered spread (similar to how grenades land when thrown at maximum range) and gather to a point as they travel farther through the air.
• Added a minimum range: 50

[Poison Grenade]

• This skill now always throws 3 grenades.
• Individual grenade radius reduced from 150 to 120.
• Poison per grenade reduced from 5 seconds to 3 seconds.
• The grenade placement spread for this skill is now inverted. Grenades now leave the Engineer in a scattered spread (similar to how grenades land when thrown at maximum range) and gather to a point as they travel farther through the air.
• Added a minimum range: 50

Bomb Kit skills
[Bomb]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Recharge: 10 seconds
• Throw a remote charge to target location that you can later detonate. This bomb deals out effects based on the condition of the foes that it strikes.
• Damage: 418 (1.3)
• If you strike a burning foe: Bleeding (3): 5 seconds
• If you strike a confused foe: Daze: 1 second
• If you strike an immobilized foe: Knock-down: 1 second
• Bomb duration: 20 seconds
• Radius: 120
• Range: 900
  • This projectile uses the bomb bundle model.
  • This projectile shares its behaviour with that of Thief [Choking Gas].
  • This skill chains into another skill upon cast completion: [Detonate Bomb].

[Fire Bomb]

• FUNCTIONAITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 2 seconds
• Recharge: 15 seconds
• Lob a timed charge in target direction that explodes, burning foes. This bomb travels further based on how long you channel it.
• Damage (4x): 260 (0.3)
• Burning (4): 2 seconds
• Duration: 3 seconds
• Radius: 120
• Combo Field: Fire
• ½ second channel: 0 range
• Full channel: 900 range
  • This skill uses a ground-targeted directional reticle—the same kind that [Grasping Dead] used in the alpha—in order to guide the throw.
  • This skill’s projectile moves at 150% the speed of Engineer [Grenade Kit] projectiles.
  • This bomb’s projectile is a bright red.

[Concussion Bomb]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 2 seconds
• Recharge: 20 seconds
• Lob a timed charge in target direction that explodes, confusing foes. This bomb travels further based on how long you channel it.
• Damage: 165 (0.5)
• Confusion (5): 5 seconds
• Radius: 180
• ½ second channel: 0 range
• Full channel: 900 range
  • This skill uses a ground-targeted directional reticle—the same kind that [Grasping Dead] used in the alpha—in order to guide the throw.
  • This skill’s projectile moves at 150% the speed of Engineer [Grenade Kit] projectiles.
  • This bomb’s projectile is a pure white.

[Smoke Bomb]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 2 seconds
• Recharge: 25 seconds
• Lob a timed charge in target direction that explodes, confusing foes. This bomb travels further based on how long you channel it.
• Blind (4): 3 seconds
• Duration: 4 seconds
• Radius: 180
• Combo Field: Smoke
• ½ second channel: 0 range
• Full channel: 900 range
  • This skill uses a ground-targeted directional reticle—the same kind that [Grasping Dead] used in the alpha—in order to guide the throw.
  • This skill’s projectile moves at 150% the speed of Engineer [Grenade Kit] projectiles.
  • This bomb’s projectile is a dark black.

[Glue Bomb]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 2 seconds
• Recharge: 25 seconds
• Lob a timed charge in target direction that explodes, confusing foes. This bomb travels further based on how long you channel it.
• Immobilized: 1 second
• Crippled: 1 second
• Radius: 240
• Puddle of glue duration: 3 seconds
• ½ second channel: 0 range
• Full channel: 800 range
  • This skill uses a ground-targeted directional reticle—the same kind that [Grasping Dead] used in the alpha—in order to guide the throw.
  • This skill’s projectile moves at 150% the speed of Engineer [Grenade Kit] projectiles.
  • This bomb’s projectile is a bright green.

Healing skills
[Healing Turret]

• Cast-time increased from ½ second to 1 second.

Elite skills
[Supply Crate]

• Cast-time increased from 1 second to 1½ seconds.

Explosives traits
Acidic Elixirs (Explosives – I)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Consuming an elixir grants you retaliation and 1 stack of acidic armor. While under the effects of acidic armor, foes that strike you suffer from vulnerability and lose up to 1 boon.
• Retaliation: 2 seconds
• Acidic Armor (1 stack; 20 seconds): The next time you take damage, the foe that damaged you suffers from vulnerability (3 stacks; 8 seconds) and loses up to 1 boon.
  • This skill only grants its bonuses when using an Elixir utility skill.
  • Whenever a player with stacks of Acidic Armor takes damage, that player’s stacks of Acidic Armor decrease by 1.

Accelerant-Packed Turrets (Explosives – V)

• Effect radius increased from 120 to 150.

Shrapnel (Explosives – II)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Blunderbuss, Shrapnel Grenade, and Concussion Bomb inflict additional bleeding.
• Bleeding (4): 10 seconds
• Cool-down: 15 seconds
  • This is a global/shared cool-down among the skills.

Incendiary Power (Explosives – IX)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• When you use a tool belt skill, you simultaneously fire a round at your foe that inflicts burning.
• Projectile delay: 1 second
• Burning: 3 seconds
• Cool-down: 10 seconds
  • Now, when this trait activates, a fireball appears at the Engineer’s side, lingers for 1 second, and then flies at the Engineer’s current target.
  • This trait’s projectile uses the Elementalist [Fireball] model.
  • This trait’s projectile shares it projectile behaviour with that of Engineer [Surprise Shot].

Firearms traits
Precise Sights (Firearms – V)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Blunderbuss, Static Shot, Shrapnel Grenade, Concussion Bomb, Elixir F, and Flame Jet inflict additional vulnerability when they hit.
• Vulnerability (8): 10 seconds
• Recharge: 15 seconds
• This is a global/shared cool-down among the skills
• Only the final damage tick of [Flame Jet] inflicts the vulnerability described in this trait.

Alchemy traits
Automated Response (Alchemy – XII)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Whenever you suffer from 4 unique conditions at a time, you instantly convert all conditions on you into boons and gain a temporary immunity to conditions.
• Condition immunity: 3 seconds
• Cool-down: 40 seconds
  • This skill uses the Guardian [Contemplation of Purity] condition-into-boon conversion table except that converting fear now results in 3 seconds of stability.

Tools traits
Kit Refinement (Tools – IV)

• All kit-swap cool-downs are now on independent recharges.

Static Discharge (Tools – II)

• Now has an internal cool-down of 1 second.

Deployable Turrets (Tools – V)

• Now, instead of the Engineer throwing a projectile that results in a turret at the target location, the Engineer instead goes through a quick summon animation and the turret drops at the target area (similar to how a Warrior banner is summoned) via a smaller version of the Engineer [Supply Crate] skill.

Reserved for future posts (turrets)

Reserved for future posts (turrets part 2)

Swagg.9236:

GRENADIER: “THE SPAMGINEER
The typical Engineer is a walking cloud of passive trait, sigil and rune procs. Fighting an Engineer is fighting a cloud of spam that quickly comes off of cool-down and requires little planning, positioning or timing to cast. It is no big deal for an Engineer to throw the entire [Grenade Kit] either off-handedly in mid-combat or as a combat opener the skills all have very short cast-times and come off cool-down rather quickly. This kind of play-style is a symptom of Engineer game-play. There are a lot of skills use, but none of it is particularly thoughtful given short cast-times and/or easy-to-land AoEs. Moreover, it’s not just [Grenade Kit]. Most meta Engineers are very spam-centric; throwing away skills left and right with little down-time because doing so is very, very effective and skill recharges are typically rather low. What’s worse is then everything is compounded by the sheer number of passive procs that most Engineers run to constantly amplify their skill spam.

Through cast-time and recharge adjustments, some over-tuned Engineer weapon sets are brought in line to a more thoughtful play-style revolving around positioning, timing and aim.

Ok, you haven’t understood absolutely anything about how the engineer is balanced.
That is, upon sustained damage.
Have you ever noticed that kits offer virtually no burst damage?
It is done on purpose: it would be a balance nightmare otherwise. How would they balance something that can be taken either alone or with other 2 of them?
So all that could be done was putting skills that dealt sustained damage – that is, mostly damaging conditions, that have their damage already regulated by their own mechanics, cast times and opportunity costs.
Those passive traits you loathe are just another way to improve sustained damage, while avoiding bursts. Aside from making some traits near useless (grenadier wouldn’t be worthly of an adept slot in your version of grenade kit, let alone grandmaster).

The only thing you would obtain with such an overhaul is to make it even more clunkier and unrewarding to use, especially for the effort required.

Oh, i forgot: putting minimum ranges to half of the skills is just terrible.

Its starting to get dificult to take the changes you suggest seriously, when the only goal that 99% of them try to do is slow down the pace of combat, which the pace of fights in this game isn’t even a problem. Just like what I asked in the Ranger thread, I want to know how many hours you actually played the Engineer, lets make it all professions.

When i read this I can hardly imagine you playing Ingeneer in PvE.
First of all : Change on pistol.
(1) Actually why do you even bother to enhance the damage modifier.
(2) You add a change on volley which is an almost fine skill for power build and condition build. Why? Seems like you switch the two fonctionallity between MH pistol and FT. No needs for this change. Well, in fact, this make the weapon even worse.
(4) This skill is meant to be a burst skill you change it into a poor copy of FT(1)

Riffle :
Reducing damage across the board as always. Let me say it out loud : Right now Engi ain’t in a good position for competitive PvE, this changes on Riffle just kill them for Donjon in the actual meta.

Elixirs :
Elixir are already the best tools of Engi, do they need to be buff like you’re suggesting? No.

Elixir gun :
Honestly… I just laugh at this.

Flamme Thrower :
Useless changes.

Tool kit :
Lot of encounter require player to be actually able to Block things. Your changes to Block skills show clearly that you hate being blocked. This change cripple Engi even more in PvE encounters.

Grenade kit :
Laughable… nade’s damages, like pistol damages, are low and balanced around traits. You seem to try to break this balance. While doing this you will just cripple all viable builds by opening absolutely nothing.

Bomb Kit :
Here certainly your worst suggestion killing melee Engi.

Traits :
You seem to hate passive effect and… You add more and more passive effect. Bunch of nonsense.

Now, let’s conclude. With this, you totally kill Engis for PvE, destroy them on WvW and cripple them in PvP. While your change may be almost viable for PvP you clearly don’t understand this class mechanisms. Why don’t you change some things on gadgets? Well actually most of them are crappy and buggy but why? Do you really feel that turret are in a good place? And our elite what’s your feeling about them?

Please before writing this kind of nonsense you should try playing engi in all ply field. Don’t restrain you to sPvP.

What Manuhell said.

In my opinion as power engineer, i can´t accept some things that you posted. I´ve been playing as engineer since the beginning, and i only like to play as static discharge power build (30/30/0/0/10) and somes changes that you propose are a madness.

First of all, why do you want to nerf hip shot damage? I wish to have a stronger autoattack with my rifle and you prefer to nerf it, that´s makes an advantage to condibuilds which the engineer has a lot.

The incresed cd of net shot and blunderbass, i think that you tried to make the list to nerf builds like the decapeer, but you should know that is a nerf for power builds as the same the channel part of overcharged shot. The jumpshot radius nerf is a joke with no sense.

I like the changes for bomb kit except one thing, the autoattack cd. You want to make the bomb kit less spammer but with that change you are forcing to use every skill one before other and change back to another kit or weapon like a brainless.

Gear shield, sounds good but 20 seconds of cd to a skill that only blocks 3 attacks isn´t fair. Channeled skills are going to be very happy with this change. Some people thinks that gear shield is like shield 4 of the warrior but worst because pull skills like magnet pull or scorpion wire pass trought gear shield and we are pulled like we aren´t using the skill, nor like the block of the warrior´s shield (tested by me a lot of times).

I don´t want to offend you but you are kittening insane with the static discharge change. Why you nerf the only trait that´s make sense for a glass cannon or a power build? Like the damage nerf to surprise shot. Both of them are exclusive for power and glass cannon builds (meaby surprise shot could be used by turret engineer but they want to put the torret, not being in their skillbar) and i´m only seen nerfs for power engineer in yout list.

I don´t know if you think about it but your changes kills those builds and i refuse to play condi, bunker or decapeer engi, i don´t care if it´s the meta, i like to play my power engineer killing people with one combo (i´m not berserk if you ask me) challenge me to deafeat every other classes and builds with hands and skill (in my opinion i think that conditions should never melt down a guy in 5 seconds like a good power build and a skilled guy)

If you want to nerf spammer engineer that´s great, but don´t nerf the power builds. The changes to rifle, bomb kit autoattack, surprise shot and static discharge should never be seen by the devs for the well-being of the power and glass cannon builds. It´s really hard to see (at least for me) in hot-join (i´m not speaking about tpvp or wvw where you delete lowlevel people) a good power engineer that likes to play it, nor trying it for 5 rounds, someone that makes a lot of effort to play that build.

PD: I´m not going to talk about the condition changes or traits that don´t affect me because i only know and like the power facet of the engineer.

Edit: I´m speaking mainly about PvP and TPvP.

An OP upset about grenade kit “spamming” and wants to nerf mainhand weapons is not someone to take seriously.

Some of the changes you suggest are reverting skills to a previous state where they were largely too weak.

Manuhell.2759:

Ok, you haven’t understood absolutely anything about how the engineer is balanced.
That is, upon sustained damage.
Have you ever noticed that kits offer virtually no burst damage?

Flamethrower has [Flame Blast].
Elixir Gun has [Acid Bomb] and to an extent [Elixir F] if you use it on a lone player while you are within 400 range of the target.
Tool Kit’s [Pry Bar] is crazy spike damage.
[Grenade Barrage] and [Big Ol’ Bomb] are potentially enormous burst and function as extensions of Grenade Kit and Bomb Kit respectively.

All of those skills are very effective in power-based builds.

Manuhell.2759:

Those passive traits you loathe are just another way to improve sustained damage, while avoiding bursts. Aside from making some traits near useless (grenadier wouldn’t be worthly of an adept slot in your version of grenade kit, let alone grandmaster).

When every attack is potentially proccing bleeds, vulnerability and even burning, it becomes difficult to discern when to actively mitigate damage. For the health of the game, it is for the best to make powerful attacks well-cued, give powerful attacks appropriate cool-downs and have powerful attacks pose a certain risk to the user for their use/activation to prevent players from spamming them whenever they see fit.

Manuhell.2759:

Oh, i forgot: putting minimum ranges to half of the skills is just terrible.

A 100 minimum range is a very short distance. Such a limitation merely prevents Engineers from throwing grenades directly under their feet and turns the attacks into something resembling a cone attack since the player has to aim in front of themselves now.

Minimum distance requirements nerf the engineer’s ability to counter melee situations, such as being attacked by a thief. That’s a braindead idea.

OK, when Elixir F is mentioned as having potential burst damage on a power-based build, I can’t respond in a serious or constructive manner.

Shoran.1287:

In my opinion as power engineer,

It doesn’t matter what someone plays; what matters is making all combat fair enough that it provides counter-play opportunities for opponents.

I play power rifle Engineer and I know that it’s overpowered.

Shoran.1287:

First of all, why do you want to nerf hip shot damage? I wish to have a stronger autoattack with my rifle and you prefer to nerf it, that´s makes an advantage to condibuilds which the engineer has a lot.

I’m already nerfing pistol to an extent with some functionality changes and number adjustments. [Hip Shot] is an incredibly strong auto-attack for its attack speed and could use some toning down. I may have gone a little overboard with the initial numbers, but it does need a nerf. I’ll post when I make a few more updates.

Shoran.1287:

The incresed cd of net shot and blunderbass, i think that you tried to make the list to nerf builds like the decapeer, but you should know that is a nerf for power builds as the same the channel part of overcharged shot.

A 20% up-time on immobilize is overpowered (even if it didn’t stack). A 2-second increase to [Net Shot]’s cool-down is not going to break the skill; the Engineer will just have to develop slightly altered rotations or maybe not use it right away when facing an opponent so as to maintain proper control of the fight.

Shoran.1287:

The jumpshot radius nerf is a joke with no sense.

[Jump Shot] landing damage radius was originally 150 range wide. When it had a 150 radius, it also had a clunky delay. When you equipped the increased range on rifle trait, the delay was up to 1 second long. People still managed to land it by leading an opponent or by using CC to secure the damage. A buff to a 240 radius was absolute overkill that takes any thought of aiming the attack out of the equation. It needs to be toned down.

Shoran.1287:

I like the changes for bomb kit except one thing, the autoattack cd. You want to make the bomb kit less spammer but with that change you are forcing to use every skill one before other and change back to another kit or weapon like a brainless.

“Like a brainless.”

If anything, having to juggle multiple cool-downs and plan ahead around things like delayed effects, stationary AoE as well as timing when to use a skill that is boosted by complimentary skills adds a lot of versatility and engaging play to the [Bomb Kit]. Swapping from kit to kit to main-hand weapons and then back again is not brainless if the kit swapping is meant to orbit around the goal of landing [Bomb Kit] attacks and supplement your damage while you wait for your [Bomb Kit] combos to come back off cool-down.

Shoran.1287:

Gear shield, sounds good but 20 seconds of cd to a skill that only blocks 3 attacks isn´t fair.

Channeled, no-attack-limit blocks are a bad idea because they give a player the potential to single-handedly ruin an entire team’s coordinated attack with the press of a single button. Having a limited number of negated attacks tied to the block gives the skill a sense of urgency (since the block won’t last forever) and doesn’t force combat development into a slow crawl for 3 seconds.

Shoran.1287:

Channeled skills are going to be very happy with this change.

I’m looking to address that very subject now that you bring it up.

Shoran.1287:

I don´t want to offend you but you are kittening insane with the static discharge change. Why you nerf the only trait that´s make sense for a glass cannon or a power build? Like the damage nerf to surprise shot. Both of them are exclusive for power and glass cannon builds (meaby surprise shot could be used by turret engineer but they want to put the torret, not being in their skillbar) and i´m only seen nerfs for power engineer in yout list.

Breaking up a Static Discharge burst into 3 intervals with 1-second cool-downs is not going to break the build. It might even make the build more effective because players running Static Discharge would be encouraged to be more conservative with their attacks, expending them little by little in order to bait an enemy’s dodges, thus leaving the target vulnerable for something like [Overcharged Shot] or further burst from Static Discharge attacks when they come off cool-down.

Chaba.5410:

Minimum distance requirements nerf the engineer’s ability to counter melee situations, such as being attacked by a thief. That’s a braindead idea.

I’ve already reworked the Thief to help deny some of its more imbalanced direct-to-target teleport capabilities.

Chaba.5410:

OK, when Elixir F is mentioned as having potential burst damage on a power-based build, I can’t respond in a serious or constructive manner.

[Elixir F] at 300 – 200 range vs a lone target (hits twice) into [Surprise Shot] into [Static Discharge attack] is strong in a power build. People just don’t use it because grenades are objectively better.

Swagg.9236:

[Elixir F] at 300 – 200 range vs a lone target (hits twice) into [Surprise Shot] into [Static Discharge attack] is strong in a power build. People just don’t use it because grenades are objectively better.

Oooooo, now you’re listing a combination of skills. That’s MUCH DIFFERENT from listing a single skill alongside a select few hard-hitting skills and calling it burst.

Swagg.9236:

Flamethrower has [Flame Blast].
Elixir Gun has [Acid Bomb] and to an extent [Elixir F] if you use it on a lone player while you are within 400 range of the target.
Tool Kit’s [Pry Bar] is crazy spike damage.
[Grenade Barrage] and [Big Ol’ Bomb] are potentially enormous burst and function as extensions of Grenade Kit and Bomb Kit respectively.

All of those skills are very effective in power-based builds.

Flame Blast is the only other direct damage attack beside the autoattack in the whole kit.
Elixir gun is quite hybrid as a kit, and acid bomb attack isn’t so high to consider it a burst imho. Also, the area is quite limited (but still a nice and versatile skill due to the other functions).
Tool Kit, same as the flamethrower: no other direct damaging skill outside of it and the autoattack.
And both grenade and bomb kit are hybrids, too. Sure, with some good power you can have some nice damage with the toolbelts…but you’re losing out on all the other damaging skills outside of the autoattack, as they’re mostly condition based.

Swagg.9236:

When every attack is potentially proccing bleeds, vulnerability and even burning, it becomes difficult to discern when to actively mitigate damage. For the health of the game, it is for the best to make powerful attacks well-cued, give powerful attacks appropriate cool-downs and have powerful attacks pose a certain risk to the user for their use/activation to prevent players from spamming them whenever they see fit.

You aren’t supposed to mitigate all the damage, anyway. And all those passives are part of the design of the class and its sustained damage. Traits like Shrapnel and Incendiary Powder aren’t much different from a “+X% damage when using Weapon” – they’re just a condition-based versions of those. A way to increase average damage over an interval of time, while posing conditions more or less strict for their use (Shrapnel requires constant use of explosives to have a good enough uptime, incendiary powder required a good amount of precision before the first change, and still a moderate amount to properly process it now).
What you’re suggesting is the antithesis of sustained damage. You can scrap the engineers with your suggestions, they should totally rework the class, starting from kits and the class mechanic.

Swagg.9236:

A 100 minimum range is a very short distance. Such a limitation merely prevents Engineers from throwing grenades directly under their feet and turns the attacks into something resembling a cone attack since the player has to aim in front of themselves now.

First, there is nothing wrong about engineers throwing grenades directly under their feets. They’re aoes, used like aoes like every other class.
And the result you obtain is being locked out from a good amount of skill if the enemy is near enough – that means, quite often. While nerfing all the skills to kite enemies at the same time and putting channeled skills everywhere.

I would also add that engineers should be viable even with a single weapon and no kits. What do you expect to obtain by nerfing main weapons if not a further unbalancing between the no kits – full kits situations?

Anyway, suggestion like the ones you proposed can’t work with the class. Engineers have a single weapon that is nerfed in damage to begin with due to kits and the possibility of jumping between them and using combinations of skills to achieve a good sustained damage. You’re removing any advantage of kits, while still leaving all the reduced effects and disadvantages we were designed with.

All you’re doing is adding channel times to most of the engineer’s abilities to prevent the class from being mobile at all.

I hate to be “that guy”, but these ideas really are horrible. If part of the reason is that you hate dealing with things like spammy grenade kits, maybe you should try being more mobile. While it’s true that grenades are extremely powerful, that only applies to stationary targets. They fly slowly to their destination. The same thing applies to the flamethrower’s fireball, and many other abilities. Those don’t need charge times. The opponent just needs to learn how to dodge.

Swagg.9236:

It doesn’t matter what someone plays; what matters is making all combat fair enough that it provides counter-play opportunities for opponents.

I play power rifle Engineer and I know that it’s overpowered.

For a decaper engineer rifle is meaby op (rifle has 2 cc skills and you want nerf every skill), for a static discharge engineer you are crazy if you think that rifle is op.

Swagg.9236:

I’m already nerfing pistol to an extent with some functionality changes and number adjustments. [Hip Shot] is an incredibly strong auto-attack for its attack speed and could use some toning down. I may have gone a little overboard with the initial numbers, but it does need a nerf. I’ll post when I make a few more updates.

Are you kidding? In pvp rifle is used by decapers engineers and crazy people like me with a static discharge build and for pve they prefer grenades for better sustain dps and vulnerability stacks. No one use rifle for his " an incredibly strong auto-attack for its attack speed".

Swagg.9236:

A 20% up-time on immobilize is overpowered (even if it didn’t stack). A 2-second increase to [Net Shot]’s cool-down is not going to break the skill; the Engineer will just have to develop slightly altered rotations or maybe not use it right away when facing an opponent so as to maintain proper control of the fight.

There are people like me that uses net shot with sitting duck and this 2 second increase is a damage nerf (something that we didn´t need). Net turret meaby needs a nerf, but net shot no (flurry, warrior´s sword burst skill, has less cd and depending of the warrior´s adrenaline can inmobilize more than net shot with 8 stacks of bleeding and don´t come with “net shot is a projectile” because i can explain every single bug of net shot)

Swagg.9236:

[Jump Shot] landing damage radius was originally 150 range wide. When it had a 150 radius, it also had a clunky delay. When you equipped the increased range on rifle trait, the delay was up to 1 second long. People still managed to land it by leading an opponent or by using CC to secure the damage. A buff to a 240 radius was absolute overkill that takes any thought of aiming the attack out of the equation. It needs to be toned down.

I will explain you how i use jump shot: My combo begins with magnet pull and prybar, i continue with net shot and then i use jump shot, nice theory and now i will explain you the reality. Magnet pull sometimes let me the enemy away from me and i must to use net shot to not let him run but he rolls away with the inmobilize put on him and i need must to move more. If i can´t put my enemy in a good cc i barely can hit him with jump shot (240 radius) and you want that i hit him with a tiny radius, great (of course jump shot fails a lot of with the altitude of my character and my enemy and i must to jump inside his character to hit with 240 radius).

Swagg.9236:

“Like a brainless.”

If anything, having to juggle multiple cool-downs and plan ahead around things like delayed effects, stationary AoE as well as timing when to use a skill that is boosted by complimentary skills adds a lot of versatility and engaging play to the [Bomb Kit]. Swapping from kit to kit to main-hand weapons and then back again is not brainless if the kit swapping is meant to orbit around the goal of landing [Bomb Kit] attacks and supplement your damage while you wait for your [Bomb Kit] combos to come back off cool-down.

I didn´t say that changing kits is brainless (what a joke with a engineer), i said that is brainless spam every skill of the bomb kit and forget that exists until the cd go off. I will show you two examples that you are wrong.

I´m a power build and i use your bomb kit, there are two damage builds to play it. The normal build is full bomb kit using the main weapon and the other skill complementing the damage of the bomb kit (you kittened this build with the cd of bomb kit 1). The other is playing a static discharge build with the bomb kit (this isn´t normal and i´m playing it), in this build your bomb kit is viable but i can assure you that nobody plays it.

I play condition damage, your nerfs to shrapnel and cd to autoattack bombs make unviable play it because i need to put a lot of conditions, something that i can´t with your nerfs.

You can play other builds and be a visionary but you are killing two builds.

Swagg.9236:

Channeled, no-attack-limit blocks are a bad idea because they give a player the potential to single-handedly ruin an entire team’s coordinated attack with the press of a single button. Having a limited number of negated attacks tied to the block gives the skill a sense of urgency (since the block won’t last forever) and doesn’t force combat development into a slow crawl for 3 seconds.

Your change to gear block is good against skills like kill shot and those skills aren´t used frecuently in pvp. The meta is spam attacks (and conditions) and you are making a skills useless for the meta (and ArenaNet doesn´t look like they want to change it)

Swagg.9236:

Breaking up a Static Discharge burst into 3 intervals with 1-second cool-downs is not going to break the build. It might even make the build more effective because players running Static Discharge would be encouraged to be more conservative with their attacks, expending them little by little in order to bait an enemy’s dodges, thus leaving the target vulnerable for something like [Overcharged Shot] or further burst from Static Discharge attacks when they come off cool-down.

Static discharge is for burst, not sustain dps, something that looks that you don´t know. You haven´t got preasure with static discharge build outside the combo (less with your hip shot´s nerf), you must make the combo all over again and you want us to wait for an opportunity to make the combo (a combo that only kills people with poor armor with only making one time the combo because the engineer has less damage than the other classes, or better explained, the other classes need less skills to make the same damage than the engineer that can be translated in more opportunities for the enemy to escape).

You’ve nerfed non-kit weapons across the board for literally no reason.

You know what diversity that’d cause? Sure I’ll play another build and be more diverse.

On another profession.

Well… You can make it an absolute joke to give yourself stealth, between Smoke Cloud and Air Blast. That’s neat, I guess.

Tulki.1458:

All you’re doing is adding channel times to most of the engineer’s abilities to prevent the class from being mobile at all.

I hate to be “that guy”, but these ideas really are horrible. If part of the reason is that you hate dealing with things like spammy grenade kits, maybe you should try being more mobile. While it’s true that grenades are extremely powerful, that only applies to stationary targets. They fly slowly to their destination. The same thing applies to the flamethrower’s fireball, and many other abilities. Those don’t need charge times. The opponent just needs to learn how to dodge.

The entire grenade skill shot argument falls flat on its face when you consider that you can unload the whole kit right under your feet in what is basically a full aoe cleave. OP has addressed this by adding a minimum range. And what exactly are you dodging when dealing with grenades? The very fact that you refer to it as “sustained damage” is already very telling. That’s the problem that OP is trying to address here. Sustained damage is not good for the game when it is the entire point of a build – it makes dodging meaningless when there is no telegraphed burst to dodge. See: Condi vs burst meta arguments.

So, if you’re going to claim this…

Swagg.9236:

Through cast-time and recharge adjustments, some over-tuned Engineer weapon sets are brought in line to a more thoughtful play-style revolving around positioning, timing and aim.

… you might want to spend some time explaining how each of your suggested modifications accomplish this. Instead, you just list the changes as if it’s completely obvious as to how it accomplishes your actual goal. However, I don’t believe it’s very obvious to people (it’s not to me, certainly), and you should try and provide clear justifications that use concrete examples. If you are able to explain them clearly and logically, people might be a bit more receptive to them, or at least be able to take your reasoning into consideration. I think most people reading this would have the impression that you just came up with random ideas that sounded nice, and there’s no true rhyme or reason to any of these tweaks.

Personally, I think many of your suggested changes actually do the opposite of what you want. For instance, let’s take your kit refinement suggestions. It seems like this would actually promote less thoughtful play because you have less risk associated with popping a kit refinement ability in a multi-kit build, so you don’t have to think about it as much or use as much planning. Ironically, this is perhaps one of the only suggestions you have that I think almost everyone will be accepting of (mostly because it has been repeatedly suggested by many people since the original kit refinement nerf).

In any case, if these are actually meant to be serious changes, you should try to spend more time highlighting the justifications of your proposed changes and how they will specifically accomplish your goal, rather than investing all your time into the actual skill parameters and functionality (even though that’s probably infinitely more fun to think about). You might also want to show why you chose the numbers you did for certain parameters (i.e. damage, durations, ranges, &c.) to show that there’s actually some level of reasoning behind it instead of just being numbers that sounded nice at the time.

Jzaku.9765:

Tulki.1458:

All you’re doing is adding channel times to most of the engineer’s abilities to prevent the class from being mobile at all.

I hate to be “that guy”, but these ideas really are horrible. If part of the reason is that you hate dealing with things like spammy grenade kits, maybe you should try being more mobile. While it’s true that grenades are extremely powerful, that only applies to stationary targets. They fly slowly to their destination. The same thing applies to the flamethrower’s fireball, and many other abilities. Those don’t need charge times. The opponent just needs to learn how to dodge.

The entire grenade skill shot argument falls flat on its face when you consider that you can unload the whole kit right under your feet in what is basically a full aoe cleave. OP has addressed this by adding a minimum range. And what exactly are you dodging when dealing with grenades? The very fact that you refer to it as “sustained damage” is already very telling. That’s the problem that OP is trying to address here. Sustained damage is not good for the game when it is the entire point of a build – it makes dodging meaningless when there is no telegraphed burst to dodge. See: Condi vs burst meta arguments.

Your counter-argument falls flat on its face when you realize every class has a ranged weapon. Ironically, grenades are weaker the further away they’re cast. If someone is deciding not to exploit their slow projectile speed, then that’s their problem.

Also, every skill in this game can be spammed at point-blank range. Thieves can cast and detonate explosive arrows in melee range for massive bleeding, and they can do so even better since they balance initiative rather than cooldowns. Warriors can detonate their explosive shot immediately by launching it at their feet. Why you decided to target one specific profession is baffling.

Oh, and there’s also something called “projectile reflection”. If a grenade engineer is giving you no room to breathe, then your reflects will give him no room to breathe either. I’ve killed engineers this way many, many times.

welp, everyone else got here before i could say these changes would give me cancer and aids. for one, taking away bomb auto would reduce our high end pve dps by something like 25-33%. thats… not a viable change. to say the least.

how about you look at gadgets instead? like some traits to help them out. cuz it seems like each gadget can stand pretty well on its own as a nifty little trick, but doesnt have the overall utility offered by a kit. another trait or 2 could give them the oomph they need to finally steer us away from 2-3 kit builds in favor of 2-3 gadget builds.

see, we have elixir builds, turret builds, kit builds, mixed builds, burst/bunker/bruiser/control/support… but no gadget builds (well and turrets are cancerous due to bugs). and the problem of our condi builds being overwhelming is cuz anet has buffed condis over the last 6 or 9 months… or rather, its more due to how the playerbase has learned to always use pizzas.

so whats engi need more than anything?
nerfs to condi duration food.
gadget traits.
turret fixes.

we dont need complete kit overhauls.

I’d just like to touch on some of your proposed changes to Grenade Kit.

• Overall I can see the intent behind your changes, however, I feel that the majority of them cut into the Engineer’s capability at mid-range.
• Many of these changes are un-necessary. The only thing required to increase the skill floor of Grenade Kit is to alter the spread by inverting the formula used to calculate the random distribution:
  • At close range (0-400), Grenades have maximum random spread. This makes fighting in melee with Grenade kit difficult.
  • At mid-range (400-800), Grenades have moderate random spread. This allows Engineer to have enough spread to maximise possibility of hits, whilst still having close enough spacing to enable overlapping Grenade hits.
  • At long range (800-1200), Grenades have minimum random spread. This makes leading your target and prediction extremely important as you can no longer barrage a point and be sure of multiple hits; whilst making any hit extremely deadly. This also has the effect of minimising the impact Grenade Kit has on a point in PvP when freecasting at long range.

• Grenadier as the GM trait does not require a Charge skill mechanic. What is needed instead is for Grenades to have 3 grenades thrown as baseline with damage re-distributed such that overall damage is 25% higher than at present. Grenadier would then increase damage by 25% (an extremely handsome amount) to current Grenadier values – for no overall change to maximum values. Range would increase from 1200 to 1400 instead of to 1500 as it is right now. People will feel any change in maximum range, and 100 units is a not insignificant nerf, as it makes several plays on certain PVP maps like Grenading the Trebuchet on Khylo quite difficult.
  • This change would make Grenadier less necessary for Grenade Kit to function properly whilst being no less important. Grenadier would then be favoured more for Power builds; whilst Condition builds can be risker and sacrifice range without impeding Condition application.

Swagg.9236:

Grenade Kit skills
[Grenade]
snip

• An autoattack is un-necessary at present. A change like this would turn the Grenade kit from a sustained damage weapon kit that stacks Vulnerability from Steel Packed Powder into something that is only useful for spreading Conditions at range. Engineer is heavily condition based already – this change would be an un-necessary step further down that path. If anything, the only change necessary is to put a 1 second cooldown on the 2-3 grenades thrown, then increase the damage accordingly.
  • It should be noted that Cast + Aftercast on Grenade is approximately 1 second total. At present, Grenade deals 107 base with a 0.33 Coefficient; rising to a maximum possible of 1.00 coefficient if all 3 Grenades hit with Grenadier GM trait. Increasing the cast time to 1 second would introduce even more frames and again – this would be an overall nerf to Grenade Kit’s potential direct damage which is low enough as it is.
  • If you still want to nerf Grenade 1, you can increase the Aftercast frames such that total casting time is 1.5-2 seconds. This must, however, come with a buff to direct damage from 50-100% to keep overall DPS at its current level. Nerfing direct damage Grenades will turn it more and more into Necromancer Staff which is an unnecessary homogenisation.

Swagg.9236:

[Shrapnel Grenade]
snip

Again, the charge skill is un-necessary for this. Simply altering the spread as I detailed above will already force Engineers into 400-800 range. If anything, the duration of the Bleed stacks should be decreased and direct damage increased to compensate. Decreasing Bleed duration from 12 seconds to 6 seconds whilst increasing the coefficient will improve Engineer’s sustained direct damage and simultaneously halve the Bleed stacking capability. Engineer uses Bleeding largely as a cover condition for Burning in condition builds anyway – this will lower condi Engineer’s output and boost Power engineer’s sustained DPS.

Swagg.9236:

[Flash Grenade]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
  snip

Changes to Flash Grenade are un-necessary. It is an extremely well-cued skill and with travel time, it cannot be used as a clutch Blind against professions with Teleports like Thief. This is especially if the spread is inverted as I detailed above.

Swagg.9236:

[Freeze Grenade]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 1 second (channel)
• Recharge: 25 seconds
• Place freeze grenades in your hand to throw. The longer you charge this skill, the more grenades that you throw upon release.
• ½-second channel: 1 grenade
• Full channel: 2 grenades
• Damage per grenade: 163 (0.5)
• Grenade explosion radius: 240
• Chill per grenade: 2 seconds
• Range: 1200
• Minimum range: 100
  • Equipping the Grenadier trait changes the skill into a 1¼-second channel skill with a third channel tier that throws 3 grenades.

• The charge mechanic is un-necessary as I have mentioned for the other Grenade skills if the spread is inverted.
• If you want to increase the skill floor of the skill, simply reduce the explosion radius from 240 to 180. This alone will make aiming Freeze Grenade an actual challenge. A cooldown increase or minimum range is not the way to go.

Swagg.9236:

[Poison Grenade]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 1 second (channel)
• Recharge: 25 seconds
• Place poison grenades in your hand to throw later. These grenades leave a poisonous cloud behind when they explode.. The longer you charge this skill, the more grenades that you throw upon release.
• ½-second channel: 1 grenade
• Full channel: 2 grenades
• Damage per grenade: 65 (0.2)
• Grenade explosion radius: 150
• Poison per grenade: 2 seconds
• Cloud duration: 4 seconds
• Cloud pulse: 1 second
• Cloud poison per pulse: 3 seconds
• Poison cloud radius: 150
• Combo field: Poison
• Range: 1200
• Minimum range: 100
  • Equipping the Grenadier trait changes the skill into a 1¼-second channel skill with a third channel tier that throws 3 grenades.

• With the upcoming proposed change to reduce the Poison application per pulse from 5 seconds to 3 seconds, this change is un-necessary. Implementing Minimum range or Charge skill mechanics should not be required to make Poison Grenade balanced.
  • As an Engineer yourself, you should have recognised that the application per pulse nerf from 5 seconds to 3 seconds was a bandaid fix that came about as a result of Poison Grenade shotgunning in melee.
  • Inverting the spread such that at melee range there is maximum random spread will ensure that shotgunning will never again exist.

Haha someone has way too much time on their hands and a grudge against engis.

Moving on to Pistol skills.

Swagg.9236:

Pistol main-hand skills
[Explosive Shot] (1)

• Damage increased from 118 (0.35) to 118 (0.4).
• Cast-time increased from ½ second to ¾ second.
• After-cast adjusted from (current?) to 0.20 second.

• Pistol 1 was already nerfed into the ground after Public Beta Weekend 2 when the Hair Trigger – Rifled Barrels – Coated Bullets build was used in conjunction with Fast Acting Elixirs – Cleaning Formula 409 – HGH to make a relatively mindless autoattack based build that did good damage with the double Pistol 1 explosion on Piercing.
  • Increasing the cast time from 0.5 seconds to 0.75 seconds when the actual cast time is closer to 0.8 seconds at present is an un-necessary nerf. Aftercast is around 0.4 seconds, FYI.
  • Total casting time at present is 0.8. Your changes would raise total casting time to 0.95
  • Overall this change does little to alter Explosive Shot’s mediocrity considering at 18.75% nerf to overall casting speed in return for a mere 5% buff in direct damage.

• Personally, I’m in favour of removing Pistol 1’s Bleed stacks in return for lowering the 0.4 aftercast to 0.25; then allowing Pistol 1 to leverage off of Explosion based traits like Shrapnel, Steel Packed Powder and Explosive Powder. This would allow Engineer to have a good sustained DPS weapon without having to resort to Grenades.
  • Of course, Coated Bullets would then have to be nerfed to Pierce only 1 target given that Explosive Shot already double-procs the damage. However, at such a low coefficient of 0.35, even stacking Critical Damage will not lead to runaway numbers – perhaps closer to a Grenade 1 double hit.

Swagg.9236:

[Poison Dart Volley] (2) – NAME CHANGED TO – [Poison Dart Bomb] (2)
snip

[Detonate Poison Dart Bomb] (2-2)

• Cast-time: 1 second
• Detonate your poison dart bomb in midair, raining down poisonous shrapnel onto the area below it.
  snip

I actually like this change as it removes the RNG from Dart Volley. It’s also extremely nice to have a Poison field given the meta we’re in with all those pesky Healing Signet Warriors running around.

• Overall one of the bright stars of your proposals – although I have my doubts as to the minimum range mechanic.
  • Increase the cast/aftercast total to 0.8-1.0 seconds and you won’t need a minimum range.
  • Either that, or reduce the radius to 150 units.
  • Minimum range really makes any skill or weapon extremely clunky. Look to Ranger Longbow for a case study. It doesn’t work in the context of GW2 and it hasn’t worked out for many other MMOs either.

Swagg.9236:

Pistol off-hand skills
[Blowtorch] (4)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 2¼ seconds
• Recharge: 15 seconds
• Channel a cone of flames from your pistol. The final burst of flame from this attack burns foes and deals more damage the closer you are to your targets.
• First 3 hits damage (3x): 495 (0.5)
• Final burst at 200-600 range: Damage: 165 (0.5); Burning: 2 seconds
• Final burst at 0-200 range: Damage: 510 (0.9); Burning: 5 seconds
• Range: 600
  • Hits up to 5 foes.
  • This skill uses an orange-colored Guardian [Cleansing Flame] cone.

I appreciate your intentions of making Burn application from Blowtorch “fairer” in the context of well cued combat. However, some of your proposal does require refinement.

• A cast time of 2.25 seconds has been a demonstrable failure in the context of mobile GW2 combat. Look to Flamethrower 1 Flame Jet as a case study. There are multiple threads throughout the Engineer forum history that bemoan its inaccuracy, and you wish to bring that over to offhand pistol, a weapon that is already outcompeted by offhand Shield?
  • Make Blowtorch’s channel be 1.5 seconds instead to apply its full effect. 3 pulses every 0.5 seconds is more than well cued enough, and will force a dodge, guaranteed.

• Making the Burn application occur only on the last pulse has again, been demonstrated to be a failure. Again, on Flamethrower 1’s Flame Jet. Missing 1 pulse already makes the Burning pulse miss for Flame Jet, so maximum damage output is hardly guaranteed except against immobile objects.
  • Instead, make Burning pulse 3 times throughout the channel, applying 1 second of Burning from range 300-600, and 2 seconds of Burning from range 0-300.

Flattening the skill on a relatively long channel is necessary if you don’t want it to be considered worthless. Pistol offhand is already severely outclassed given Shield offhand’s sheer utility – a Blast Finisher and Push (Projectile Reflection as well) as well as a defensive Stun or 100% Projectile Finisher.

Good work as always.

Tulki.1458:

Jzaku.9765:

Tulki.1458:

All you’re doing is adding channel times to most of the engineer’s abilities to prevent the class from being mobile at all.

I hate to be “that guy”, but these ideas really are horrible. If part of the reason is that you hate dealing with things like spammy grenade kits, maybe you should try being more mobile. While it’s true that grenades are extremely powerful, that only applies to stationary targets. They fly slowly to their destination. The same thing applies to the flamethrower’s fireball, and many other abilities. Those don’t need charge times. The opponent just needs to learn how to dodge.

The entire grenade skill shot argument falls flat on its face when you consider that you can unload the whole kit right under your feet in what is basically a full aoe cleave. OP has addressed this by adding a minimum range. And what exactly are you dodging when dealing with grenades? The very fact that you refer to it as “sustained damage” is already very telling. That’s the problem that OP is trying to address here. Sustained damage is not good for the game when it is the entire point of a build – it makes dodging meaningless when there is no telegraphed burst to dodge. See: Condi vs burst meta arguments.

Your counter-argument falls flat on its face when you realize every class has a ranged weapon. Ironically, grenades are weaker the further away they’re cast. If someone is deciding not to exploit their slow projectile speed, then that’s their problem.

Also, every skill in this game can be spammed at point-blank range. Thieves can cast and detonate explosive arrows in melee range for massive bleeding, and they can do so even better since they balance initiative rather than cooldowns. Warriors can detonate their explosive shot immediately by launching it at their feet. Why you decided to target one specific profession is baffling.

Oh, and there’s also something called “projectile reflection”. If a grenade engineer is giving you no room to breathe, then your reflects will give him no room to breathe either. I’ve killed engineers this way many, many times.

I… What. We agree that grenades are weakest when far away. That’s why the most effective use is at point blank, that’s why people use it at point blank, that’s why the kit is spammy, that’s what op is trying to address. You can’t “exploit grenade’s slow projectile” if people don’t even use it as projectiles in the first place.

Also if you even bothered reading his other threads all with the same naming and numbering scheme you’ll see that he added minimum range to the other similar skills You mentioned as well.

Jzaku.9765:

I… What. We agree that grenades are weakest when far away. That’s why the most effective use is at point blank, that’s why people use it at point blank, that’s why the kit is spammy, that’s what op is trying to address. You can’t “exploit grenade’s slow projectile” if people don’t even use it as projectiles in the first place.

Also if you even bothered reading his other threads all with the same naming and numbering scheme you’ll see that he added minimum range to the other similar skills You mentioned as well.

bothered? lol. no, i dont think a whole lot of people want to read 5 4 page total overhauls when they dont play the classes.

and his credibility with me tanked after i bothered reading his short thread on stealth and sigils/runes. he wants stealth to work like obsidian sanctum fountains… without the 1 skill to deny your temptation to press any other button. meh. and he just copied some of the sigil changes and hard nerfed the rest. meh. aaaaand then i vaguely remember scrolling down the thief thread a little and seeing a lot of garbage about people saying he clearly doesnt understand the issues.

frankly, ive been waiting for the engi thread since he did his first thread… and after playing engi for some ungodly number of hours, i think nearly everything here is aimed at personal vendettas and only half of the obvious of issues have found their way into his head, and he isnt even identifying, imo, decent solutions.

insanemaniac.2456:

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i think nearly everything here is aimed at personal vendettas and only half of the obvious of issues have found their way into his head, and he isnt even identifying, imo, decent solutions.

Exactly how it seemed to me with the thief thread, especially if you read the ele thread where he referred to thieves as a stupid evasive blindspam class without a unique function or flavor.

I’d like it if you compressed these into one thread that commented on the state of the game. It’s easy to overreact to a lot of your changes when you haven’t read the entirety of the other (seven) threads. That’s a lot to expect of some people.

In addition, you seem to have spent quite a bit of time on damage values and coefficient tweaks. I don’t think the Anet devs are that interested in seeing exact numbers, but rather reasoning behind broken mechanics that can be applied to all classes. It’d probably be more likely to see changes and intelligent feedback if you spoke more generally about the game, combat speed, and counterplay rather than having a minute breakdown on every single class and skill which can be rather hard to follow.

If you want a job at Anet in game design, my suggestion is to try applying or, if you lack the experience and qualifications, try getting into QA at any game company. That’s where most people start.

Maugetarr.6823:

insanemaniac.2456:

snip
i think nearly everything here is aimed at personal vendettas and only half of the obvious of issues have found their way into his head, and he isnt even identifying, imo, decent solutions.

Exactly how it seemed to me with the thief thread, especially if you read the ele thread where he referred to thieves as a stupid evasive blindspam class without a unique function or flavor.

Meh, some of the ideas presented can be off base, but I like the intention behind them. In my view, intention for change is good – the finer points of change can always be debated.

At the risk of going off topic, and as a non-Thief player, some of the changes he proposed didn’t address the core issues for Thief which has always been that it is quite time-starved, which makes encounters for it quite binary. A lot of Thief mechanics are also “unfriendly” to counterplay like Stealth which draws a lot of hate as a result. Of course, having faced Thieves before one learns the windows to exploit where Thief is vulnerable, but it is true what Swagg said that Thief does kind of break some of the established mechanics of GW2 combat – Stealth breaking reading animations, Teleports breaking the Range to Melee combat transition, and so on, Initiative breaking the Cast/Aftercast/Cooldown mechanic.

My point is that Thief is a profession and playstyle that attracts a different kind of player. Not different as in trolly, but different as in Resource managing. Initiative is the closest thing to Energy from GW1 present in GW2. My problem with Thief is that the balance trend of Thief has not addressed its one-dimensionality and its time-starvation.

Similarly with Engineer, my problem with that is that Balance has almost entirely revolved around meta-defined, keystone traits and utilities to the exclusion of everything else.

1 year in, Gadgets and Turrets remain largely unaddressed (Except for Rocket Boots, which is awesome now). Bugs plague Turrets, Gadgets aren’t worth sacrificing a Kit slot for the niche utility they bring due to no Trait support, and there are entirely way too many passive Trait procs – many of which do not alter playstyle or make new builds possible.

Heck, the only notable keystone trait introduced in recent memory was Modified Ammunition – and it’s a weaker version of Necromancer’s 25 point minor Target the Weak considering it requires a Major slot.

It’s wierd, because Engineer could be less condispam focused and a lot “fairer” if only Arenanet worked on removing a lot of the RNG from Engineer and made more mechanics leverage off of the Toolbelt. Oh, and increasing the damage coefficients for Kits, or you know, actually make their damage scale with Weapon damage. Engineer mainhand weapons like Rifle should also have a minor buff in weapon coefficients so that Power builds are actually comparable to Condition builds.

Also, speaking of Toolbelts, Static Discharge is still bugged on non-targeted skills. Many Toolbelts also remain poorly balanced for their cooldown, like the Turret toolbelts and Gadget toolbelts and provide little more than extra damage instead of useful utility.