[Guardian]Condition Suggestion

[Guardian]Condition Suggestion

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Posted by: CMF.5461

CMF.5461

I don’t even play anymore, but I had a random thought today.

What if guardian’s gained a trait like necros had for Terror?

The new damaging condition could be vulnerability and it could stack in intensity.
With three traits that apply vulnerability either through symbols, immobilize, or through blinds, it opens up many weapons to stack 5-10 average stacks of vulnerability and some builds being able to spike 25 for short durations with immobilize, symbols, and blinds.

This would provide guardians a “bleed” like condition that they would have to spec for (I suggest replacing radiant retaliation). Through this you would have spike condition damage available and a second damaging condition to pair with burns.

Actual damage of the “vulnerability” damage would need tweaking to find a not overpowered spot, as we can maintain a good chunk of vulnerability with ease.

Thoughts? Long shot I know, but I thought it could be a promising idea for our lack of “viable” condition builds for guardians.

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Posted by: Mikau.6920

Mikau.6920

I suggested exactly this. But no response.

Sorry for my english.

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Posted by: Dark FQ.1038

Dark FQ.1038

Amplified Wrath.

Dark Fq (Desolation and Gandara)all classes condi. http://www.youtube.com/user/FQDark

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Posted by: Tim.6450

Tim.6450

This will never happen since you increase the weight on the server and we have a condition cap for a reason ( and no, it is not because condi’s are OP).

EverythingOP

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Posted by: Shanks.2907

Shanks.2907

It’s nice to try and work with what we’ve got, but I think changing a weapon would be easier to implement. Maybe the staff, as it’s damage already sucks and is used in mostly bunker type builds where condition damage would be most useful. 5 stacks of confusion on orb detonation sounds awesome, maybe with bleeding or torment on AA.

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Posted by: CMF.5461

CMF.5461

Amplified Wrath.

What about amplified wrath? Are you saying it is enough to make guardians a viable condition build? If so I disagree.

It adds a huge amount of damage to burns, yes. The problem is that it is all based on a single condition as well as it has no “spike” capability, as the damage only stacks in duration and not intensity.

Having both in measured unison creates moments of burst and other moments of steady damage. Much like direct damage auto attack and burst cooldowns.

Right now burning is pretty much the “auto attack” of conditions, slow steady damage.

This will never happen since you increase the weight on the server and we have a condition cap for a reason ( and no, it is not because condi’s are OP).

It wouldn’t be a “new” condition, technically. It would just apply an on trait damage tick in association with vulnerability. Exactly like the terror trait that causes damage when targets are feared.

It’s nice to try and work with what we’ve got, but I think changing a weapon would be easier to implement. Maybe the staff, as it’s damage already sucks and is used in mostly bunker type builds where condition damage would be most useful. 5 stacks of confusion on orb detonation sounds awesome, maybe with bleeding or torment on AA.

I would argue that sword and or scepter should get a condition if we want to change a weapon. Most condition applying attacks on weapon auto attacks are single target.

For those that have multi target condition application, they are typically in very short duration and/or have long cooldowns.

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Posted by: Tim.6450

Tim.6450

This will never happen since you increase the weight on the server and we have a condition cap for a reason ( and no, it is not because condi’s are OP).

It wouldn’t be a “new” condition, technically. It would just apply an on trait damage tick in association with vulnerability. Exactly like the terror trait that causes damage when targets are feared.

Yes, but you would have to consider that you potentially have to check 25 times if the player has the trait and do a condition damage calculation (which probably conatains some things that will have to be send from the client to the server), for each enemy on the map.

Terror on the other hand is only stack at the time. Which is 25 times as cheap.

EverythingOP

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Posted by: CMF.5461

CMF.5461

I know the bandwidth strain is constantly quoted as a reason for limits on conditions, and while I understand that every time you add an additional relationship/link in a database, it has to query and retrieve the data from potentially multiple databases from multiple people.

This would cause an exponential increase in “bandwidth usage”.

I still have a really hard time believing that the pipes for this game (while based on the GW1 engine) are SO limited that there is absolutely NO room to budge anywhere.

At most you would have the client send data packets that say: Trait selected, condition name, player condition damage stat, condition timer

Trait selected is a database entry so something like: A0001 is sent
Condition name is another database entry so referencing another database and pulling: B0001.

After that you send number values
1000 condition damage stat
15 second

The above would be sent at a max 25 times (25 stack cap).

After that the computation is done on the servers and the user client would then receive feedback that there is a condition on the target at 25 stacks with 15 seconds left till expiration. Damage values are sent back and health bars are decreased two more number values sent.

Not a drastically high bandwidth tax, and at most we added trait selected which is only a few bits to send a database name value “A0001” nothing more.

But I’m probably talking out my rear end and I don’t get paid to do this so I should just shut myself up and color.

I just can’t fathom why bandwidth is so limited for the game.
This post has more characters and data being sent than the above example for condition damage updates.

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Posted by: Tim.6450

Tim.6450

You do realize that every tick from every stack needs a package since might increases your current condition damage and that for every enemy on the entire server.

EverythingOP

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

Just to revisit …

I think traits like Amplified Wrath are the PROBLEM with conditions on Guardians. Why? Because it’s amazing … tell me any of the typical condition classes wouldn’t kill for a 33% more condition damage trait.

I don’t think the issues with condition builds for Guardians is a profession problem so I don’t think it can be addressed with a narrow focus on the profession itself. It’s one of how conditions are implemented in the game. Perhaps if cleansing wasn’t all or nothing or if condition damage wasn’t a ‘flavour’ of damage and more of a ‘meal’, it would be more prevalent.

I think it’s more likely that Anet implement Runes/Sigils that augment burning as they have mentioned in the past it’s one of their intents for those upgrades. I’m thinking something like “Apply vulnerability for each second of burning applied to a mob”. I think the space for changes like these in traits is getting pretty small.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: Ezeriel.9574

Ezeriel.9574

My only problem is the trait lines. There is no logical condition build for guardians.

The condition traits are all in the wrong trait lines.

The only way to play the engineer is to exploit it.
Playing the engineer “as intended” is simply not viable.

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Posted by: Shanks.2907

Shanks.2907

Just to revisit …

I think traits like Amplified Wrath are the PROBLEM with conditions on Guardians. Why? Because it’s amazing … tell me any of the typical condition classes wouldn’t kill for a 33% more condition damage trait.

I don’t think the issues with condition builds for Guardians is a profession problem so I don’t think it can be addressed with a narrow focus on the profession itself. It’s one of how conditions are implemented in the game. Perhaps if cleansing wasn’t all or nothing or if condition damage wasn’t a ‘flavour’ of damage and more of a ‘meal’, it would be more prevalent.

The implementation of conditons in the game doesn’t hold back the other 7 classes from having viable condition options. Guardians have access to one damaging condition out of five, an issue unique to guardians only. That is a huge lack of spread that can’t offer any condi burst or cover for the 33% burning damage.

Add bleeding on an auto attack, a 3-5 stack confusion/torment skill and maybe a 5 stack bleed skill and condition guardian would be looking pretty good.

/inb4 conditions don’t fit our class concept.

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Posted by: Dark FQ.1038

Dark FQ.1038

Alright so people say amplified wrath isn t strong….

I am a noob guardian but I created a rly big aids build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXUd1U6D8CU&list=UUnoiVn59v9x05e_stkI_x8w

I kill quite alot of people with this build…

Dark Fq (Desolation and Gandara)all classes condi. http://www.youtube.com/user/FQDark

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

The implementation of conditons in the game doesn’t hold back the other 7 classes from having viable condition options.

That’s arguable, especially in PVE for many of the same reasons that Guardians are held back from condition builds as well. Only a few professions overcome the limitations simply because of the overwhelming access they get to so many. Guardians getting access to more conditions is a thoughtless approach to the issue; just like it’s thoughtless for the other condition-heavy classes.

Guardians are not limited because they only get access to one condition; Earth and Torment Sigils are available in addition to Burning; yet we still don’t see Earth/Torment Condition Guardians. I’ve tried it. It still felt sub par to the meta. Making more conditions available in the Guardian toolset won’t address that.

I’m not saying this can’t be solved with profession fixes; obviously just making massive amounts of conditions on a specific weapon will work. I’m saying their should be some more thoughtful system change so that the current Guardian class concept using burning is more appealing.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: Shanks.2907

Shanks.2907

Why conditions fail in PvE and why condition guardian is terrible are two different things. I doubt many of the people who are vocalizing for condition guardian want to use it in PvE.

I don’t get why there needs a “thoughtful system change” to continue guardian’s “burn only class concept” to make condition guardian viable. It would be sad if that’s what is really holding this class back, just useless shackles of what we should be.

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

Unless the motivation is to improve condition damage for PVE on Guardian, there isn’t an issue here … burning in PvP is pretty good and fills a role lacking for many professions.

(edited by Obtena.7952)