Guild Wars 2

What it is

Over 8 pulses it removes 9 conditions on allies excluding the guardian himself.
Overall it can potentially remove 9×5=45 conditions. (36 in TPvP)

My suggestion:

Let it remove conditions on the guardian but less than half conditions on allies; 4 conditions on allies. 4×5=20 + 9=29 (25 in PvP)

Why?

-IT IS COUNTER INTUITIVE; It says “removes conditions on allies” but nothing is said about you, the tool fix is confusing already, are you your own enemy? New players dont understand the concept, old players dont like detrimental exceptions.

-Guardians dont have problems with conditions, true, but only if you are a bunker. Torch isnt a bunker weapon. DPS guardians already suffer from not being a bunker and having very poor condition removal. Having a torch would greatly benefice DPS guards(which are on dire need of it, they have low health pool, little condition removal and have to be melee for everything, the opposite of warriors altogether)

-Overall it is a good trade-off.

As an ele main I must say that I would have no issues with it and would not compare it to ether renewal. They perform different roles already.

i didn’t even know it had the ability to remove conditions. i thought this thread was going to be “why doesn’t the attack burn?” which is just as important of a question, if you ask me.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i didn’t even know it had the ability to remove conditions. i thought this thread was going to be “why doesn’t the attack burn?” which is just as important of a question, if you ask me.

Yah thats another one I’ve encountered a lot of times; people dont know it removes conditions, you can see me getting completely out of position just to cleanse some conditions, just to see all my allies scatter away from it…..almost on purpose…..

the fire isn’t touching you, therefore it can’t really cleanse conditions from you. it does however touch the allies it removes the conditions from. simple reason there. real reason is probably because anet figured guards have enough condition cleanse for themselves with utilities and heals that they didn’t need a weapon skill that does it too. And also, poor condition removal? my dps guard can also eat conditions like its an all-you-can-eat buffet

JusticarArkiel.1564:

the fire isn’t touching you, therefore it can’t really cleanse conditions from you. it does however touch the allies it removes the conditions from. simple reason there. real reason is probably because anet figured guards have enough condition cleanse for themselves with utilities and heals that they didn’t need a weapon skill that does it too.

None of the heals of guardians remove conditions, not even traited.

As far as “logic” goes….it does not apply to videogames.

Bunker guardians has condition cleansing, DPS guardian doesn’t, any experienced guardian will tell you that. Torch isnt a bunker weapon..at all, so it would greatly benefice the DPS guardians.

Lastly, the trade-off is actually decent (lets not forget that 45 to 29 conditions removed is a HUGE, enough to be a tradeoff worth considering); it still removes a lot of conditions on allies, which encourages its use on them, and now it would also give the guardian an incentive to use it on himself.

Fortus.6175:

JusticarArkiel.1564:

the fire isn’t touching you, therefore it can’t really cleanse conditions from you. it does however touch the allies it removes the conditions from. simple reason there. real reason is probably because anet figured guards have enough condition cleanse for themselves with utilities and heals that they didn’t need a weapon skill that does it too.

None of the heals of guardians remove conditions, not even traited.

As far as “logic” goes….it does not apply to videogames.

Bunker guardians has condition cleansing, DPS guardian doesn’t, any experienced guardian will tell you that. Torch isnt a bunker weapon..at all, so it would greatly benefice the DPS guardians.

Lastly, the trade-off is actually decent; it still removes a lot of conditions on allies, which encourages its use on them, and now it would also give the guardian an incentive to use it on himself.

the signet they have, i forget the name, has passive condition removal. and i didn’t say the rework was a bad idea, i simply said as to why the original skill probably works the way it does. though i also love the idea that only a bunker guard can have condition removal of worth

If you did that, you would have to change the function of “Fumigate” on the engineers elixir gun, which functions similarly. Both of which would be extremely OP condition cleansing.

JusticarArkiel.1564:

Fortus.6175:

JusticarArkiel.1564:

the fire isn’t touching you, therefore it can’t really cleanse conditions from you. it does however touch the allies it removes the conditions from. simple reason there. real reason is probably because anet figured guards have enough condition cleanse for themselves with utilities and heals that they didn’t need a weapon skill that does it too.

None of the heals of guardians remove conditions, not even traited.

As far as “logic” goes….it does not apply to videogames.

Bunker guardians has condition cleansing, DPS guardian doesn’t, any experienced guardian will tell you that. Torch isnt a bunker weapon..at all, so it would greatly benefice the DPS guardians.

Lastly, the trade-off is actually decent; it still removes a lot of conditions on allies, which encourages its use on them, and now it would also give the guardian an incentive to use it on himself.

the signet they have, i forget the name, has passive condition removal. and i didn’t say the rework was a bad idea, i simply said as to why the original skill probably works the way it does. though i also love the idea that only a bunker guard can have condition removal of worth

True, forgot about that one, my apologies. Also, I agree that only bunker guardian should have condition cleansing of worth, thats why 4 conditions instead of all 9. Think about it, as it stands now, DPS guards have better condition cleansing than a bunker with say mace/shield and staff.

As for the engi, you are forgetting that as it stands right now, it already cleanses more conditions than the engi with that one weapon ( 9 conditions)…. If anything, it would make the engi’s condi cleansing more valuable since it would be bringing the condi cleansing of the torch down…

I seriously dont see the complains, except for a rare case of a bunker guardian who runs x/torch staff, it shouldnt be an issue to anyone.

Fortus.6175:

As for the engi, you are forgetting that as it stands right now, it already cleanses more conditions than the engi with that one weapon ( 9 conditions)…. If anything, it would make the engi’s condi cleansing more valuable since it would be bringing the condi cleansing of the torch down…

I am referring specifically to the suggestion the OP maid about the skill removing conditions from ones self. That is immensely OP in my opinion.

I am all for making out lying weapons more popular, but making them ridiculously OP is not the way to do it.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Fortus.6175:

As for the engi, you are forgetting that as it stands right now, it already cleanses more conditions than the engi with that one weapon ( 9 conditions)…. If anything, it would make the engi’s condi cleansing more valuable since it would be bringing the condi cleansing of the torch down…

I am referring specifically to the suggestion the OP maid about the skill removing conditions from ones self. That is immensely OP in my opinion.

I am all for making out lying weapons more popular, but making them ridiculously OP is not the way to do it.

Think of it as total conditions removed. What is stronger; 45 conditions removed, or 29?

As far as my math knowledge goes, 45 > 29.

Lastly, tell me how many other skills in the game have giant group benefices that do not affect the user? I can guarantee you that there are FAR less than skills that affect both the entire team AND the user.

I dont know, the skill just doesnt seem right, it is counter intuitive, to the point of almost punishing, something that by the standards of teamwork and no-griefing that GW2 has created, it does not bode well.

Those other skills in the game do not remove conditions. And what does the 45 to 25 comparison your making have to do with anything? It only shows that the skill on the torch is stronger then the EG one. Making it even more OP then the other if a change, such as the one suggested, was to be made.

If the proposed change was to be made, then the cooldown would have to be bumped up to 60s in my opinion.

I simply fell there are better ways to improve the skill other then making it an extremely OP condition removal. 45 condi’s cleansed, including the user, on a 15s cool down untraited is very extreme.

Fortus.6175:

JusticarArkiel.1564:

the fire isn’t touching you, therefore it can’t really cleanse conditions from you. it does however touch the allies it removes the conditions from. simple reason there. real reason is probably because anet figured guards have enough condition cleanse for themselves with utilities and heals that they didn’t need a weapon skill that does it too.

None of the heals of guardians remove conditions, not even traited.

Smite condition
Signet of resolve
Purity
Sigil of generosity/purity
Hoelbrak runes (reduces their duration anyways)

You could have all of those on a dps guard if you wish, or some. Dps guard may not be incredible at removing conditions but it does have the ability to withstand them.

Often the medi spam is enough to keep me afloat so I rarely even use signet active unless im real low. While it is up however conditions just brush off.

As for allowing it to remove conditions off self, I don’t think it is needed. Even if they halved the effect, it just fits into a more support feel anyways requiring positioning. Even on engi elixir gun (fumigate or w/e) idc if people move out of the spray while im trying to cleanse them, its such a short cooldown anyways I’m more impressed when people are drowning in bleeds and poison and rather dodge my cleanse. I use #5 on torch for damage anyways, the condi clear is just a bonus to me.

I think it’d be fair to have it remove a condition on the user with every third pulse, for a total of 3 conditions removed. Hell, I’d even be okay with them upping the cooldown to 20 seconds to compensate for that, but as OP said, right now it’s simply not a worthwhile skill because no support guardian is going to be using a torch, and the DPS is too subpar to use for damage alone.

3 conditions removed from self + up to 40 condi removed off of friendlies (to be far that is only in the most ideal situation possible and extremely unlikely) is a lot.

20s isn’t even close to enough duration increase in my opinion. Maybe on a profession that needs solid access to condition removal. Given guardians very available access to condition removal, this would make guardians nearly as bad as necromancers from the perspective of other condition builds.

I think a bigger part of why you never see torch used, is that there is no MH weapon that really benefits from investment in condition damage as a stat, so there isn’t anything to really mesh well with the torch as an off hand.

coglin.1867:

3 conditions removed from self + up to 40 condi removed off of friendlies (to be far that is only in the most ideal situation possible and extremely unlikely) is a lot.

20s isn’t even close to enough duration increase in my opinion. Maybe on a profession that needs solid access to condition removal. Given guardians very available access to condition removal, this would make guardians nearly as bad as necromancers from the perspective of other condition builds.

I think a bigger part of why you never see torch used, is that there is no MH weapon that really benefits from investment in condition damage as a stat, so there isn’t anything to really mesh well with the torch as an off hand.

I think it would be fair, considering how most reliable forms of condition removal require heavy defensive trait investment, which a DPS guardian cannot afford because they need to be able to deal large bursts of damage quickly. With my current burst medi build, I have 3 methods of condi removal. One is a single condition I can remove on demand with a low cooldown, one is a skill that has a chance of removing a condition if it bounces back to me, and one that removes all conditions on me with a large cooldown. For a build that has low vitality, that’s not nearly enough to keep up with the condition output that classes like thief and necromancer have. It just doesn’t make sense for a class that is supposed to be specialized in condition removal to be weak to conditions itself.

Fortus.6175:

JusticarArkiel.1564:

Fortus.6175:

JusticarArkiel.1564:

the fire isn’t touching you, therefore it can’t really cleanse conditions from you. it does however touch the allies it removes the conditions from. simple reason there. real reason is probably because anet figured guards have enough condition cleanse for themselves with utilities and heals that they didn’t need a weapon skill that does it too.

None of the heals of guardians remove conditions, not even traited.

As far as “logic” goes….it does not apply to videogames.

Bunker guardians has condition cleansing, DPS guardian doesn’t, any experienced guardian will tell you that. Torch isnt a bunker weapon..at all, so it would greatly benefice the DPS guardians.

Lastly, the trade-off is actually decent; it still removes a lot of conditions on allies, which encourages its use on them, and now it would also give the guardian an incentive to use it on himself.

the signet they have, i forget the name, has passive condition removal. and i didn’t say the rework was a bad idea, i simply said as to why the original skill probably works the way it does. though i also love the idea that only a bunker guard can have condition removal of worth

Also, I agree that only bunker guardian should have condition cleansing of worth

clearly you did not hear the sarcasm with my statement. i was being sarcastic, it’s idiotic to believe that only one build should be able to deal with conditions. if you try, you can make a huge dps guard with great condition removal. and to top it off, i never stated this was a bad idea, i stated that there are possible reasons this wasn’t implemented in the first place

they need to do something with this skill. if i play on my medi guard i usually don’t even try to damage the enemy with this skill. i deselect my target, press 5 and run around my allies to cleanse their conditions.

many times i asked myself why it only cleanses other’s conditions but not mine.

what i don’t like about this skill is:

1) that it doesn’t cleanse my conditions
2) that it is “hard to land” on my allies in the heat of the battle.

they could change that skill to an AoE fire wave cleansing your conditions, your allies’ conditions and damaging foes.

Jekkt.6045:

they need to do something with this skill. if i play on my medi guard i usually don’t even try to damage the enemy with this skill. i deselect my target, press 5 and run around my allies to cleanse their conditions.

No guardian worth their salt uses it for the damage unless they need a ranged cleave, because it’s a DPS drop. They need to either up the damage, reduce the cast time, or give it better utility that can actually benefit an offensive-oriented build.

NinjaEd.3946:

Fortus.6175:

None of the heals of guardians remove conditions, not even traited.

Smite condition
Signet of resolve
Purity
Sigil of generosity/purity
Hoelbrak runes (reduces their duration anyways)

Please read again, i said heals, as in #6 skill. And yes, as stated earlier, there is one heal (the signet) that does remove conditions, 1 every 10 seconds. Traiting it is not for DPS guard though, and lets face it; 1 condi every 10 seconds is not enough to survive in the condi meta.

dancingmonkey.4902:

. 45 condi’s cleansed, including the user, on a 15s cool down untraited is very extreme.

Im under the very certain impression that people do NOT read.

I CLEARLY stated that instead of removing 45 conditions, it would remove 29 at MOST.
Please guys, take the actualy time tor ead the entire thing before jumping to wrong conclusions.

Of course 45 conditions would be OP! 4 conditions for allies, and 9 for the user, 26 in TPvP.

The way it read to me was that your intention was in comparison to the elixir gun fumigatr skill that was also mentioned. They function similarly. Only the condition differs. Your post wasn’t particularly clear given the context of your comparison. I do feel if you change one, that the other should change as well. Besides, it is not as if the Guardian needs more condition removal compared to the engineer.

coglin.1867:

The way it read to me was that your intention was in comparison to the elixir gun fumigatr skill that was also mentioned. They function similarly. Only the condition differs. Your post wasn’t particularly clear given the context of your comparison. I do feel if you change one, that the other should change as well. Besides, it is not as if the Guardian needs more condition removal compared to the engineer.

Because the guardian has so much more HP,cc,self-healing,ranged and damage at the same time than engineer.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i didn’t even know it had the ability to remove conditions. i thought this thread was going to be “why doesn’t the attack burn?” which is just as important of a question, if you ask me.

My explanation for that was always that due to the virtue, it will on average burn for as long as you channel.

Carighan.6758:

BrunoBRS.5178:

i didn’t even know it had the ability to remove conditions. i thought this thread was going to be “why doesn’t the attack burn?” which is just as important of a question, if you ask me.

My explanation for that was always that due to the virtue, it will on average burn for as long as you channel.

yeah, but that’s not the skill applying the burn, that’s the virtue. that’s like saying sword autoattack burns because the whole chain hits 5 times.

it’s not like the other torch skill doesn’t apply burn, or like there’s some rule to how many skills you can have that apply burn (ranger torch)