Guild Wars 2

Warriors and Guardians are both heavy classes and i get that one is support and the other is damage but warriors have more invulnerability, damage, movement, stun breakers, stuns, higher health ect. Guardians have more passive effects and heals. I think Guardians should get increased movement or as well as added stuns or an increased health pool. The Warrior is fine in not asking for a nerf, but the Guardian is really lacking.

First of all no, Guardian has way more invulnerability and damage mitigation than Warr what are you even smoking here. All classes have ~equal amount of stunbreaks. And hilariously, I’d say damage guardian is one of the best counters to Hammer Warrior.

The guardian still does what it does the best. You STILL don’t see Warriors or any other class being your main bunker, this is because yes, a warrior sustains himself well (some might say too well), but all his sustain only applies to himself. This is in direct contrast to what a Guardian provides for a team with his team cleansing, team stability, team full heal etc etc. This is completely by design that Guard defends the team and the only team effects warrior can apply are all damage buffs.

If you feel like the guardian needs things other classes have to suit your play style perhaps you should play other classes.

Jzaku.9765:

First of all no, Guardian has way more invulnerability and damage mitigation than Warr what are you even smoking here. All classes have ~equal amount of stunbreaks. And hilariously, I’d say damage guardian is one of the best counters to Hammer Warrior.

The guardian still does what it does the best. You STILL don’t see Warriors or any other class being your main bunker, this is because yes, a warrior sustains himself well (some might say too well), but all his sustain only applies to himself. This is in direct contrast to what a Guardian provides for a team with his team cleansing, team stability, team full heal etc etc. This is completely by design that Guard defends the team and the only team effects warrior can apply are all damage buffs.

If you feel like the guardian needs things other classes have to suit your play style perhaps you should play other classes.

Invulnerability? No. Damage mitigation? Maybe more PARTIAL damage mitigation in the form of protection and the occasional aegis, but unlike warrior guardian’s only duration-based block skill is also their heal skill, and it only lasts 2 seconds.

Unlike warrior, guardian is very limited in effective roles. You can either be an effective bunker (which Anet has said themselves they’re looking to add some competition to with other classes), or you can go medi burst.

Is guardian in a bad spot? Not really, at least not relatively speaking when you look at ranger and elementalist, but it definitely could be better. It was the most well balanced class at launch, and for some reason Anet has taken that to mean that it doesn’t need to be touched at all even as the meta changes.

Black Box.9312:

Invulnerability? No. Damage mitigation? Maybe more PARTIAL damage mitigation in the form of protection and the occasional aegis, but unlike warrior guardian’s only duration-based block skill is also their heal skill, and it only lasts 2 seconds.

Considering Warrior has nothing that actually grants invulnerability the way say, Renewed Focus, and the only way you can achieve something comparable would be to use up all 3 of your utility slots at once on Endure Pain, Berserker’s Stance, and a form of stability, and existing conditions will still continue to tick on you in this scenario as opposed to true invulnerability, I’d say yes, Guardian definitely has more invulnerability. Having your block attached to your Heal can be seen as a positive as well, you have free choice of weapons to use.

I agree that Guardian definitely has always been in a good place in all areas of the game. Wouldn’t that be exactly the reason why Anet is so reluctant to change it? I’d fear that Guardian would turn into the next OP/UP flavour of the month if they did.

Renewed focus is a 90 second cd elite skill that, iirc, doesn’t grant immunity to pre-applied conditions either. It is also channeled and does not allow the use of other skills or actions for its duration. Yes, it works differently than endure pain, but in any given PvP scenario are you ever going to be hit by an attack that goes through endure pain? And is CC honestly relevant if you’re still not taking any damage while under its effects?

The only thing that makes guardian a more effective bunker class is the fact that you can trait very heavily into strong defensive builds, but this comes at the cost of lacking offensive power. A defensive guardian’s strongest offensive asset is retaliation, and even that relies on playing defensively and being able to take enough hits for it to do its job. Meanwhile a warrior can simply place 20 points in defense and slot a few utilities and fill nearly any role without having to worry about whether you’re well-equipped enough for it.

Well, if you are arguing the effectiveness of having a Warrior taking the place of a Guardian, yes, all these things would matter. As primary bunker you have to be reliable, provide support, and most importantly keep the point. If you were cc-able during your “invulnerability” rotation you might be feared/launched off the point and be quickly neutralized.

There’s also no way a Warrior can fill a Guardian’s shoes, being a Bunker is not JUST about staying alive on a point, Guardians place reflect fields, provide stability to the team for teamfights and guaranteed stomps, are able to neutralize the point with knockbacks and denial over time. I’m not saying a warrior can’t hold a point to save his life, but there is a perfectly legitimate reason why Guardian is the apex predator of bunkering.

EDIT: How do I into reading comprehension edition
We agree that Guard is the best, but I think you’re significantly overstating the capability of the standard Warrior bruiser build.